NP, PA, or PharmD?

[EddieL]

I'm a high school senior and I hold acceptances to three programs. I'm accepted into a competitive 2+4 pharmacy program that's well-known for giving strong preference to it's undergrads, a direct-entry 5 yr PA program (no need to reapply after BS), and a BSN program (with guaranteed acceptance to a DNP graduate program).

I've shadowed pharmacists, PA's, doctors, and NP's and could realistically see myself doing any of the careers. I can speak Spanish and French and would like to ideally use the languages when I practice. Cliché, but I love helping people with problems and giving advice. I'm a people person. While money isn't everything, I want to make around $100k so I can provide well for a family.

So all considered, any advice as to what I should do?

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[DOCTORSAIB]

I'm a high school senior and I hold acceptances to three programs. I'm accepted into a competitive 2+4 pharmacy program that's well-known for giving strong preference to it's undergrads, a direct-entry 5 yr PA program (no need to reapply after BS), and a BSN program (with guaranteed acceptance to a DNP graduate program).

I've shadowed pharmacists, PA's, doctors, and NP's and could realistically see myself doing any of the careers. I can speak Spanish and French and would like to ideally use the languages when I practice. Cliché, but I love helping people with problems and giving advice. I'm a people person. While money isn't everything, I want to make around $100k so I can provide well for a family.

So all considered, any advice as to what I should do?

Pharmacys job market is becoming ever so saturated from what I see on the forums. Overall not a bad gig just know what you're getting into. You're largely a pill dispenser with a professional license and decent pay.

DNP is a hot topic in medicine these days. These guys are trying to masquerade as physicians. Personally I can't stand them and think the DNP degree is garbage. Theyre a bunch of nurses with a huge chip on their shoulders. If you wanted to be a doctor so badly why didn't you go to medical school like the rest of us? I think I know the answer to that one!

PA is the most ideal route out of the ones you mentioned. PA are governed by the same board that governs physicians -- Board of Medicine (BOM). Their philosophy is much more in-line with physicians and are largely regarded as being on "our team." Not to mention as a PA you actually treat patients and can work in almost every specialty of medicine alongside docs.

I'd go PA anyday over the other two esp if it gets you to your objective in the shortest amount of time with the LEAST debt (cannot emphasize the keeping debt to minimum part!).

G'luck young grasshopper!

 

[Phlame217]

Money for pharmacy is in retail, retail is well... retail. I worked as a CPhT for 4 years while in college and started my first year of pharmacy school (a 2 + 4) and it took that long for me to realize how much I hated it and dropped out. But w/o that experience, I probably wouldn't have gone into medicine.

I finished my bachelors, went to medical school and here I am, almost done w/ first year.

NP have their place in clinics and somewhat in ERs, but DNPs are BS. I agree with above post. Just look at the statistics of DNP education vs MD/DO and you would be astounded. There is rifle among the current generation of doctors that are in or freshly out of school and what is happening in egypt is fairly likely to happen in medicine soon. Cheap and under-educated does not replace moderately priced and expertly educated.

PAs are good and bad, depends on how you're used by your supervising physician. If you get in somewhere you're good. Career is highly variable and you can highly specialize, however your have a high chance of being abused.

Hospitals and other for-profits choose NP and PA over MD/DO for the reason that they are cheaper labor and can work the same hours or more....

I advise you to evaluate what you want as far as family life, income, work hours, and all and decide there on.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Money for pharmacy is in retail

No. That is a rumor I see propagated on the boards but it's not unequivocally true. I work in a hospital and do some casual per diem retail work where I make <20 cents more per hour.

What is true is that the job market for pharmacy is changing rapidly and no one can say how long the saturation will last. Where I live, it's not an issue, but if you want to be in a metro area, especially an area with pharmacy schools, it will be.

In my area, NPs and PAs make about 80-90K, which is certainly a nice salary, but is considerably less than a pharmacist. Pharmacists here make 30-40K more than that.

I think you really need to decide how much direct patient care you want to have. In my job, I have quite a bit, but that's not the case for every position. I will also echo the previous poster about taking on the minimum amount of student loan debt.

 

[TornadoChaser]

I'd say go with the one you feel you will be happiest doing. I've chosen to pursue MD/DO regardless of the fact it's going to take much longer, and have a much larger amount of debt than other options like DPT or PA, but I know I wouldn't be happy in either of those positions.

I wouldn't worry too much about how the perceived job market or salary is for any of those positions. Things will likely be different by the time you're out of school anyway. Who knows what will happen with the health care laws. Any of those positions will provide you with a salary sufficient to live comfortably.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[EddieL]

Thanks guys for your replies! I really appreciate you all taking the time to respond

As for DNP, I thought something was weird about that when I saw a 100% online DNP program. How can someone who wants to practice medicine autonomously be trained over the internet? It all seems a little shady

So as it comes down to PA-C vs PharmD, it's still confusing. I like the autonomy a pharmacist has (no supervising physician), but I also like the flexibility a PA has to work in any realm of medicine. I feel like I would enjoy being a PA more than an RPh, but I don't know if I would be able to work as a PA at the top of my career knowing I'm doing practically the same thing as my supervising physician for half the pay. Maybe I should consider med school?

@spacecowgirl
What is your job exactly? What kind of patient contact do you get with it? Seems of interesting

@Phlame217
What made you change your mind from pharmacy?

Thanks again guys

 

[indygobu]

As said previously, pharmacy is becoming a saturated market. More and more pharmacy schools are opening, while fewer than anticipated pharmacies are opening (I'm assuming due to the economy). It used to be when I first started pharmacy school a few years ago, pharmacists would get sign-on bonuses of up to $20k, or even a new car. Now, they are lucky to get $1000. Internships are harder and harder to obtain in the Indianapolis area, and according to one of the pharmacy managers at CVS/Pharmacy, the pharmacies are getting paid less due insurance regulation on what they will pay. Now, this is only where I'm at, so it may be quite different from where you are. I'm not Nostradomus, but from what I see, it's not the profession it used to be as far as outlook for high school/undergraduate students. I'm also guessing that it will take at least 5 years for guidance counselors in some high schools to realize that the market is saturated as such, further making the situation problematic because they will be shunting more and more students into an area. Thus, pharmacy schools will have to get more competitive, breaking a lot of hearts.

Also the notion of starting up your own pharmacy is becoming a more and more distant concept to grasp, due to the big boys (CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, Kroger, Target, et al) pushing small business owners around. So unless you are able to find a nice niche (compounding pharmacies are still practical) in the market, my best guess is your pharmacy will go belly up.

And, retail is retail. There is a joke that I heard a few years ago that if you like not being able to go to the bathroom, go into retail, but if you do, go into hospital/clinical pharmacy, except expect (wow, a word isomer if I've ever seen one) a nice 20% decrease in pay. Now, this is a little exaggerated, but it does have some truth to it.

I am attempting to get into medical school because frankly if the new health care deal goes through or some variation of the current bill, there is going to be a huge new supply of patients that must be 1) on insurance, otherwise they get taxed 2) getting adequate preventative check-ups, meaning that physicians are going to be in huge demand. I'm not an expert in this area, but the economics of it seems that way, correct me if I'm wrong. The only problem is how are we going to fund this? For the time being now, I would vote to take it out of the insurance companies' huge profit. But, for a future measure, we need to better educate people about healthy lifestyles so that they don't need to utilize health care all that often. It's really what you want to do.

In the end, a job is a job, although you can have a lot of fun with it because it's what you make of it.

 

[indygobu]

Double post, sorry.

 

[TornadoChaser]

wow, a word isomer if I've ever seen one

This made me lol

Keep in mind you're talking about a career and a lifetime of working 40 years or so in your chosen field. Whatever is happening now, such as market saturation, or decreasing salary, or even increasing salary, won't be the norm over your whole career. There will be ups and downs cycling several times in your working life. That's why I say don't even worry about all of that, and just choose the career you will be happiest with. If you love what you're doing, you will excel at it, and when the market is tough, it won't matter because you'll be one of the best in your field.

 

[indygobu]

Keep in mind you're talking about a career and a lifetime of working 40 years or so in your chosen field. Whatever is happening now, such as market saturation, or decreasing salary, or even increasing salary, won't be the norm over your whole career. There will be ups and downs cycling several times in your working life. That's why I say don't even worry about all of that, and just choose the career you will be happiest with. If you love what you're doing, you will excel at it, and when the market is tough, it won't matter because you'll be one of the best in your field.

Very sound advice for the OP. And keep in mind that I was just discussing about my distinct location, so it's not a generalization, just a specification.

I work in a hospital and do some casual per diem retail work where I make <20 cents more per hour.

This is interesting. Now, if you worked full-time at a retail store like CVS would you still see the reduction in annual pay? I'm not trying to get down at you at all, but I'm just not sure how the per diem pay works, exactly.

What is true is that the job market for pharmacy is changing rapidly and no one can say how long the saturation will last. Where I live, it's not an issue, but if you want to be in a metro area, especially an area with pharmacy schools, it will be.

Yes, this is also true. Which is probably why Indianapolis is so saturated (there are 2 pharmacy schools within an hour/hour-half drive).

 

[ABaverage]

If you don't care for the "Dr" title, and you are genuinely compassionate.. I would go for NP. Lots of opportunity and great pay.

 

[spacecowgirl]

This is interesting. Now, if you worked full-time at a retail store like CVS would you still see the reduction in annual pay? I'm not trying to get down at you at all, but I'm just not sure how the per diem pay works, exactly.

No. I get paid the same hourly as a FT pharmacist, sometimes a little more depending on the job. Where I work most regularly, I make the going market hourly wage which is, as I said, 20 cents less per hour than my FT job. It's not that retail pays low, is that hospital pays higher than people seem to believe. I have said that many times at SDN and it's like no one believes me. After the extra money I get from being on-call, I make about 10K more than a retail pharmacist of similar tenure. And the lifestyle is much, much better.

OP - not trying to talk you into anything one way or the other, but I would say pharmacists have as much if not more variety than PAs, you just need to know where to look.

 

[Phlame217]

@Phlame217
What made you change your mind from pharmacy?

1. I worked both Retail and Hospital as a CPht. As a tech, I did more than the pharmacist in both positions as far as labor side and I noticed that the Pharmacist was in a position of a Peon in both settings. Alot of the pharmacist I worked with ranging from 30 years in to fresh out of school expressed a lot of distend about their jobs and some went as far as to call their education a waste of time as they were just over paid techs.

2. I Enjoy some patient interaction, but not alot which is one factor that led me to pharmacy initially. I got a full ride to a Pharmacy school that was 2+6 so that was another convincing factor for me to go initially.

3. Combing 1 + 2 brought me to a stale mate, but once I started Pharmacy School it finally hit me that it wasn't for me. One leading factor of this was I started shadowing an ER physician and I enjoyed that side of the spectrum a whole lot better than the pharm side.

No. I get paid the same hourly as a FT pharmacist, sometimes a little more depending on the job. Where I work most regularly, I make the going market hourly wage which is, as I said, 20 cents less per hour than my FT job. It's not that retail pays low, is that hospital pays higher than people seem to believe. I have said that many times at SDN and it's like no one believes me. After the extra money I get from being on-call, I make about 10K more than a retail pharmacist of similar tenure. And the lifestyle is much, much better.

OP - not trying to talk you into anything one way or the other, but I would say pharmacists have as much if not more variety than PAs, you just need to know where to look.

My uncle is a pharmacist and I still talk to a few of my old bosses and majority of hospital pharmacist are lucky to earn what retail do. In the midwest, I know a few pharmacist who earn between 100 - 116k in retail where as most pharmacist earn 75 - 90k in the hospital setting. Both work 45 hours a week. Both pay amounts are gross before tax and benefits. Now if a hosptialist wants to step up and pick up shifts, they can bring their pay up but now they're working more hours...

 

[spacecowgirl]

Well, I guess my W2 is wrong. Shhh, don't tell anyone.

 

[EddieL]

No. I get paid the same hourly as a FT pharmacist, sometimes a little more depending on the job. Where I work most regularly, I make the going market hourly wage which is, as I said, 20 cents less per hour than my FT job. It's not that retail pays low, is that hospital pays higher than people seem to believe. I have said that many times at SDN and it's like no one believes me. After the extra money I get from being on-call, I make about 10K more than a retail pharmacist of similar tenure. And the lifestyle is much, much better.

OP - not trying to talk you into anything one way or the other, but I would say pharmacists have as much if not more variety than PAs, you just need to know where to look.

Thanks for your reply if you don't mind me asking where are you located at? Pharmacy hospital salaries where I am (Northeast) tend to be much lower. The local hospital system starts out pharmacists at a bare $35/hr. PA's in the same system start at around $30/hr which is also considerably low.

I do really like pharmacy, and I do really like medicine (PA). I think it will eventually come down to what amount of patient contact I want.

1. I worked both Retail and Hospital as a CPht. As a tech, I did more than the pharmacist in both positions as far as labor side and I noticed that the Pharmacist was in a position of a Peon in both settings. Alot of the pharmacist I worked with ranging from 30 years in to fresh out of school expressed a lot of distend about their jobs and some went as far as to call their education a waste of time as they were just over paid techs.

2. I Enjoy some patient interaction, but not alot which is one factor that led me to pharmacy initially. I got a full ride to a Pharmacy school that was 2+6 so that was another convincing factor for me to go initially.

3. Combing 1 + 2 brought me to a stale mate, but once I started Pharmacy School it finally hit me that it wasn't for me. One leading factor of this was I started shadowing an ER physician and I enjoyed that side of the spectrum a whole lot better than the pharm side.

My uncle is a pharmacist and I still talk to a few of my old bosses and majority of hospital pharmacist are lucky to earn what retail do. In the midwest, I know a few pharmacist who earn between 100 - 116k in retail where as most pharmacist earn 75 - 90k in the hospital setting. Both work 45 hours a week. Both pay amounts are gross before tax and benefits. Now if a hosptialist wants to step up and pick up shifts, they can bring their pay up but now they're working more hours...

I never realized that pharmacy was such a gloomy field for many. Reading this forum really opened up my eyes. I've enjoyed my pharmacy shadowing experiences (which have all been in hospitals), but who knows. I wish I had the time to work as a tech, but my deposit is due in weeks

@indygobu

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. Surprisingly, my high school guidance counselor strongly suggested I should go into pharmacy and did cite 20k sign on bonuses and cars, which now seems to be invalid . I sort of wish I was going into pharmacy in 2006. You made very good points about the future of health care and I think you are right...physicians (and consequently PA's) will be in extremely high demand following health care reform. Hopefully pharmacists too

 

[spacecowgirl]

I'm in the Midwest. I'm really surprised the pay would be that low, especially in a high cost of living area.

 

[drift]

I'm in the Midwest. I'm really surprised the pay would be that low, especially in a high cost of living area.

Its all supply & demand. More pharmacists would be willing to live in say NJ with a lower pay than in the midwest / more rural areas with higher pay. The hospital where I work hires PharmDs (without PGY1) at $36.50/hr...Not exactly sure how much it comes out to be but it sure is much lower than many rural offerings.

 

[45408]

So as it comes down to PA-C vs PharmD, it's still confusing. I like the autonomy a pharmacist has (no supervising physician), but I also like the flexibility a PA has to work in any realm of medicine. I feel like I would enjoy being a PA more than an RPh, but I don't know if I would be able to work as a PA at the top of my career knowing I'm doing practically the same thing as my supervising physician for half the pay. Maybe I should consider med school?

If you would be happy doing anything other than being a physician, I would do that. I don't mean that as "sour grapes," or "bitter surgery resident," but seriously. If you can attain your goal via a faster, easier method, why would you intentionally pick the harder way?

In your comparison of PharmD versus PA, I think you overestimate the pharmacist and underestimate the PA. Pharmacists are filling the prescriptions ordered by physicians. They certainly provide a meaningful oversight for allergies, interactions, dosages and such, but they're not prescribing these things on their own. Conversely, a lot of PAs can go about their day doing a lot of things that will seem fairly autonomous. In an inpatient setting, they'll see patients, write progress notes, order labs, replace lytes, discharge patients, see new consults in the ER/floor, etc. All with a brief phone call to a supervising physician. In a clinic, they can see certain types of patients without any direct supervision at all.

In your comparison of PAs to physicians, you will not be doing the same thing as the physician. I think PAs are great, and I would love to hire one some day as a physician extender so that I can focus on what I want to be doing. With that said, while an experienced PA may practically seem like an attending physician to a pre-med or a med student, there is still a large gap. You are not doing the same thing for less money. The PAs who look like they really know what they're doing have been doing it for a long time, and practice makes you pretty good.

PAs are good and bad, depends on how you're used by your supervising physician. If you get in somewhere you're good. Career is highly variable and you can highly specialize, however your have a high chance of being abused.

Hospitals and other for-profits choose NP and PA over MD/DO for the reason that they are cheaper labor and can work the same hours or more....

Honestly, I don't know any PAs or NPs (and I know plenty) who work more than the physicians in their corresponding field. The neurosurgery PAs work more than a lot of pediatricians or internists, but they don't work more than the neurosurgeons.



Eddie - do what you want, but I think being a PA is a pretty good setup.

 

[45408]

Its all supply & demand. More pharmacists would be willing to live in say NJ with a lower pay than in the midwest / more rural areas with higher pay. The hospital where I work hires PharmDs (without PGY1) at $36.50/hr...Not exactly sure how much it comes out to be but it sure is much lower than many rural offerings.

Hourly wage x 2000 = 40 hours/week x 50 weeks.

That's $73,000/year before taxes/benefits.

 

[DocJL]

Its all supply & demand. More pharmacists would be willing to live in say NJ with a lower pay than in the midwest / more rural areas with higher pay. The hospital where I work hires PharmDs (without PGY1) at $36.50/hr...Not exactly sure how much it comes out to be but it sure is much lower than many rural offerings.

basic formula for translating hourly pay to yearly salary is to multiply x40(hours), then multiply x50(weeks)

so somebody making $20/hour will have an annual salary of roughly 20x40x50 = 40k per year

somebody making $36.50/hour 36x40x50 (or simply $36.50x2000 to make it simple) = 73k per year

 

[hopefuldoc97239]

If you wanted to be a doctor so badly why didn't you go to medical school like the rest of us?

Physicians don't own a patent on the title "doctor," nor was medicine the first field of study to use the title. Medicine stole the term from law.

It's just the name of a degree. Get over it.

 

[spacecowgirl]

In your comparison of PharmD versus PA, I think you overestimate the pharmacist and underestimate the PA. Pharmacists are filling the prescriptions ordered by physicians. They certainly provide a meaningful oversight for allergies, interactions, dosages and such, but they're not prescribing these things on their own.

I do prescribe under protocol and have a reasonable (i.e. comfortable to me) level of autonomy in that respect. I do NOT diagnose nor do I want to as I do not have that training or pretend to.

I know what I do is the exception, not norm, but pharmacists are more than filling automatons. I do so many things in my job beyond the dispensing role. I do a lot of work with clinical decision making, P&T, chemotherapy, writing policies and protocols...a lot of interesting stuff besides filling orders. Just want to give pharmacy a fair representation.

As I said before, I think this really comes down to how much patient contact you want to have. There are definite pros and cons to each profession in terms of cost of education, salary, job security etc. If you want 100% patient care, go the PA/NP route, absolutely. I just wanted to share that there is much more to pharmacy than what most people have exposure to.

I still can't get over <80K pharmacist salaries. Well, I'm happy to live where I do - low CoL and higher salaries. Good combo.

 

[indygobu]

I think this really comes down to how much patient contact you want to have

Pretty much, and I would say that you could add the point that by going into medical school, you have more choice for specialization. Although you can go into a residency for pharmacy and finish your PGY1 and PGY2 years, I still don't think you can have as much choice as a physician when it comes down to specialization. In all honesty, I think your description of your job sounds pretty comprehensive and fulfilling, so be proud of what you are doing. I've also heard good things about nuclear pharmacy, but I haven't shadowed a nuclear pharmacist, so I have no clue what it entails or what I should expect. Any advice there?

While researching answers for a med school interview I had, the difference between MD, PA, RNP boiled down to this.

PA: less autonomy because has to have a supervising physician, hence the job title, but fulfills a lot of the roles of a family practitioner.

RNP: more autonomy, focuses more on the palliative care aspect of health care.

MD: better scope of practice options, more training (I mean, you should at least be competent in the clinical aspect by going to school that much), and more freedom.

If you don't mind the school, MD isn't a bad choice at all. However, I will tell you that studying for the MCAT is one hell of a stepping stone to get there. It's not impossible, heck I did a lot better than I thought I would, but you cannot take the test lightly.

 

[EddieL]

I do prescribe under protocol and have a reasonable (i.e. comfortable to me) level of autonomy in that respect. I do NOT diagnose nor do I want to as I do not have that training or pretend to.

I know what I do is the exception, not norm, but pharmacists are more than filling automatons. I do so many things in my job beyond the dispensing role. I do a lot of work with clinical decision making, P&T, chemotherapy, writing policies and protocols...a lot of interesting stuff besides filling orders. Just want to give pharmacy a fair representation.

As I said before, I think this really comes down to how much patient contact you want to have. There are definite pros and cons to each profession in terms of cost of education, salary, job security etc. If you want 100% patient care, go the PA/NP route, absolutely. I just wanted to share that there is much more to pharmacy than what most people have exposure to.

I still can't get over <80K pharmacist salaries. Well, I'm happy to live where I do - low CoL and higher salaries. Good combo.

Your job sounds really interesting! If you don't mind me asking, did you do a residency and if so what was your PY2 speciality? And I couldn't believe they were that low either. With 4 pharmacy schools all within in a 3 hour drive, I guess they don't have trouble finding someone who will work for the $35/hr. Saturation sucks...

As a little note for anyone who finds this thread in a similar position, this guide made me a lot interested in pharmacy: http://www.pharmacy.ohio-state.edu/...rmacy/materials/PfizerPharmacyCareerGuide.pdf

If you would be happy doing anything other than being a physician, I would do that. I don't mean that as "sour grapes," or "bitter surgery resident," but seriously. If you can attain your goal via a faster, easier method, why would you intentionally pick the harder way?

In your comparison of PharmD versus PA, I think you overestimate the pharmacist and underestimate the PA. Pharmacists are filling the prescriptions ordered by physicians. They certainly provide a meaningful oversight for allergies, interactions, dosages and such, but they're not prescribing these things on their own. Conversely, a lot of PAs can go about their day doing a lot of things that will seem fairly autonomous. In an inpatient setting, they'll see patients, write progress notes, order labs, replace lytes, discharge patients, see new consults in the ER/floor, etc. All with a brief phone call to a supervising physician. In a clinic, they can see certain types of patients without any direct supervision at all.

In your comparison of PAs to physicians, you will not be doing the same thing as the physician. I think PAs are great, and I would love to hire one some day as a physician extender so that I can focus on what I want to be doing. With that said, while an experienced PA may practically seem like an attending physician to a pre-med or a med student, there is still a large gap. You are not doing the same thing for less money. The PAs who look like they really know what they're doing have been doing it for a long time, and practice makes you pretty good.


Honestly, I don't know any PAs or NPs (and I know plenty) who work more than the physicians in their corresponding field. The neurosurgery PAs work more than a lot of pediatricians or internists, but they don't work more than the neurosurgeons.



Eddie - do what you want, but I think being a PA is a pretty good setup.

Thank you so much for your post!

Being a PA is definitely a great job. Honestly, I think I would be happier being a PA than a pharmacist. Not that I couldn't be happy being a pharmacist, but I imagine myself working in oncology and being a PA would offer me more of an active role than a pharmacist. Of course, if I went into pharmacy, I'd probably become an oncology pharmacist...but from the limited shadowing experience I do have, PA's seemed to have more interaction with the patients.

My only quarrel is that my family keeps pushing me towards pharmacy because they're convinced it's a gold mine. I'm ashamed to say it, but they almost have me feeling the only way I can be successful is to become a pharmacist. I don't know why I'm saying this, but this thought in the back of my head has been bugging me to no end

 

[delano2000]

Your job sounds really interesting! If you don't mind me asking, did you do a residency and if so what was your PY2 speciality? And I couldn't believe they were that low either. With 4 pharmacy schools all within in a 3 hour drive, I guess they don't have trouble finding someone who will work for the $35/hr. Saturation sucks...

As a little note for anyone who finds this thread in a similar position, this guide made me a lot interested in pharmacy: http://www.pharmacy.ohio-state.edu/...rmacy/materials/PfizerPharmacyCareerGuide.pdf



Thank you so much for your post!

Being a PA is definitely a great job. Honestly, I think I would be happier being a PA than a pharmacist. Not that I couldn't be happy being a pharmacist, but I imagine myself working in oncology and being a PA would offer me more of an active role than a pharmacist. Of course, if I went into pharmacy, I'd probably become an oncology pharmacist...but from the limited shadowing experience I do have, PA's seemed to have more interaction with the patients.

My only quarrel is that my family keeps pushing me towards pharmacy because they're convinced it's a gold mine. I'm ashamed to say it, but they almost have me feeling the only way I can be successful is to become a pharmacist. I don't know why I'm saying this, but this thought in the back of my head has been bugging me to no end

Dude, the decision is ultimately up to you. Sure your parents can have an input but it is your future. Just throwing that out there.

 

[EddieL]

Dude, the decision is ultimately up to you. Sure your parents can have an input but it is your future. Just throwing that out there.

That's true. They're just convinced the only way I'm considered successful is if I make more than them which is kind of sad in my opinion. Where I live, PA's don't make much due to heavy saturation and it isn't uncommon for them to start at around 65-70k, whereas chain pharmacists start at around 120k, twice as much. It's all they see, so they constantly push me towards pharmacy.

 

[delano2000]

That's true. They're just convinced the only way I'm considered successful is if I make more than them which is kind of sad in my opinion. Where I live, PA's don't make much due to heavy saturation and it isn't uncommon for them to start at around 65-70k, whereas chain pharmacists start at around 120k, twice as much. It's all they see, so they constantly push me towards pharmacy.

Then move to where it is not so saturated (or something of the sort). There are PAs that can make upwards of 100K, generally in surgical specialties though.

 

[drift]

That's true. They're just convinced the only way I'm considered successful is if I make more than them which is kind of sad in my opinion. Where I live, PA's don't make much due to heavy saturation and it isn't uncommon for them to start at around 65-70k, whereas chain pharmacists start at around 120k, twice as much. It's all they see, so they constantly push me towards pharmacy.

where are you located?

 

[EddieL]

Then move to where it is not so saturated (or something of the sort). There are PAs that can make upwards of 100K, generally in surgical specialties though.

I understand that salaries are much better elsewhere and really do wish they were like that here...but to be entirely honest, I don't really want to relocate. I really love where I live and want to remain near my family, friends, etc. It may sound silly, and I know that I may have to relocate, but I would strongly prefer to stay here.

where are you located?

I'm located in Pennsylvania. We have 20 PA schools, more than any other state. Most are very good programs, but there are just so many of them. Factor in the fact that very few want to relocate (myself included), and you have some major saturation. Consequently, Pennsylvania offers some of the lowest PA salaries in the US. We also have much saturation within pharmacy, but retail salaries still remain high due to general consistency throughout the chains. Hospital pharmacy however does suffer...many hospital pharmacists start at 35/hr and the salary scales end at 52/hr.

 

[drift]

I'm located in Pennsylvania. We have 20 PA schools, more than any other state. Most are very good programs, but there are just so many of them. Factor in the fact that very few want to relocate (myself included), and you have some major saturation. Consequently, Pennsylvania offers some of the lowest PA salaries in the US. We also have much saturation within pharmacy, but retail salaries still remain high due to general consistency throughout the chains. Hospital pharmacy however does suffer...many hospital pharmacists start at 35/hr and the salary scales end at 52/hr.

If you are set on living in PA for the rest of your life than you will have to come to terms that PAs on average only make 75-80k there. It's the absolute hands-down worst state to practice as a PA. Just a state over, you could expect 90-100k on average but pennsylvania sucks for PAs.

 

[PharmaTope]

Pharmacys job market is becoming ever so saturated from what I see on the forums. Overall not a bad gig just know what you're getting into. You're largely a pill dispenser with a professional license and decent pay.

DNP is a hot topic in medicine these days. These guys are trying to masquerade as physicians. Personally I can't stand them and think the DNP degree is garbage. Theyre a bunch of nurses with a huge chip on their shoulders. If you wanted to be a doctor so badly why didn't you go to medical school like the rest of us? I think I know the answer to that one!

PA is the most ideal route out of the ones you mentioned. PA are governed by the same board that governs physicians -- Board of Medicine (BOM). Their philosophy is much more in-line with physicians and are largely regarded as being on "our team." Not to mention as a PA you actually treat patients and can work in almost every specialty of medicine alongside docs.

I'd go PA anyday over the other two esp if it gets you to your objective in the shortest amount of time with the LEAST debt (cannot emphasize the keeping debt to minimum part!).

G'luck young grasshopper!

go into pharmacy IF YOU HATE YOUR LIFE!!!

would not tell anyone to go into it. the saturation is allowing companies and bosses to treat workers like total ****. there is ZERO autonomy. PA seems like a good gig though. Pharmacy is a total nightmare. NP seems ok but again its all nursing policy vs diagnosis and treatment. it is a hard decision you need to make on your own OVER TIME. Do not rush it. DO NOT DO ANYTHING FOR MONEY, PRESTIGE, OR WORK ENVIRONMENT/PERKS.

These "lifestyle" considerations are total bull****. lifestyle changes by jobs and economy. if pay goes down you lose the ability to generate income for yourself. i am warning you, avoid being a bitch to someone.

nursing does have 100% independent practice in some states as an NP. AKA, nobody is making you do scut bull**** for them to enjoy the rewards.

just take it slow, dont let anyone push you, findout the actual JOB YOU WOULD ENJOY. just remember this, everyone must work their ass off in their jobs at some point. dont think one is easier than the other, it is not.

 

[PharmaTope]

No. That is a rumor I see propagated on the boards but it's not unequivocally true. I work in a hospital and do some casual per diem retail work where I make <20 cents more per hour.

What is true is that the job market for pharmacy is changing rapidly and no one can say how long the saturation will last. Where I live, it's not an issue, but if you want to be in a metro area, especially an area with pharmacy schools, it will be.

In my area, NPs and PAs make about 80-90K, which is certainly a nice salary, but is considerably less than a pharmacist. Pharmacists here make 30-40K more than that.

I think you really need to decide how much direct patient care you want to have. In my job, I have quite a bit, but that's not the case for every position. I will also echo the previous poster about taking on the minimum amount of student loan debt.

that will change VERY VERY VERY SOON. people forget supply and demand. why pay you 130k when we can get 2 pharmacists who need money for 70k each OR LESS. will happen very soon and everyone gonna be crying a river.

 

[spacecowgirl]

that will change VERY VERY VERY SOON. people forget supply and demand. why pay you 130k when we can get 2 pharmacists who need money for 70k each OR LESS. will happen very soon and everyone gonna be crying a river.

Not this again

 

[newpredent]

Thanks guys for your replies! I really appreciate you all taking the time to respond

As for DNP, I thought something was weird about that when I saw a 100% online DNP program. How can someone who wants to practice medicine autonomously be trained over the internet? It all seems a little shady

So as it comes down to PA-C vs PharmD, it's still confusing. I like the autonomy a pharmacist has (no supervising physician), but I also like the flexibility a PA has to work in any realm of medicine. I feel like I would enjoy being a PA more than an RPh, but I don't know if I would be able to work as a PA at the top of my career knowing I'm doing practically the same thing as my supervising physician for half the pay. Maybe I should consider med school?

@spacecowgirl
What is your job exactly? What kind of patient contact do you get with it? Seems of interesting

@Phlame217
What made you change your mind from pharmacy?

Thanks again guys

I would go with DNP. They are expanding their scope, best opportunity for your career and greater autonomy than PA or Pharm. People on SDN (esp MD/DO) hate DNPs. There are some sketchy programs for DNP (such as ones online). Other programs are legit. Also with a BSN and a few years of experience in the ED and ICU you can apply for CRNA programs (these are also disliked by some on SDN).

This is note intended to start a scope of practice debate. However, these opportunities exist for DNPs and CRNAs and will probably expand as health care needs increase.

 

[EddieL]

If you are set on living in PA for the rest of your life than you will have to come to terms that PAs on average only make 75-80k there. It's the absolute hands-down worst state to practice as a PA. Just a state over, you could expect 90-100k on average but pennsylvania sucks for PAs.

What state would that be? And I agree. I would consider relocating (especially if it means a 20-30k salary increase), but like I said, I like where I am.

go into pharmacy IF YOU HATE YOUR LIFE!!!

would not tell anyone to go into it. the saturation is allowing companies and bosses to treat workers like total ****. there is ZERO autonomy. PA seems like a good gig though. Pharmacy is a total nightmare. NP seems ok but again its all nursing policy vs diagnosis and treatment. it is a hard decision you need to make on your own OVER TIME. Do not rush it. DO NOT DO ANYTHING FOR MONEY, PRESTIGE, OR WORK ENVIRONMENT/PERKS.

These "lifestyle" considerations are total bull****. lifestyle changes by jobs and economy. if pay goes down you lose the ability to generate income for yourself. i am warning you, avoid being a bitch to someone.

nursing does have 100% independent practice in some states as an NP. AKA, nobody is making you do scut bull**** for them to enjoy the rewards.

just take it slow, dont let anyone push you, findout the actual JOB YOU WOULD ENJOY. just remember this, everyone must work their ass off in their jobs at some point. dont think one is easier than the other, it is not.

Thanks for the advice. And you are right, when I graduate from college in 7ish years from now things will be completely different. So going into anything for money or present conditions is silly.

I would go with DNP. They are expanding their scope, best opportunity for your career and greater autonomy than PA or Pharm. People on SDN (esp MD/DO) hate DNPs. There are some sketchy programs for DNP (such as ones online). Other programs are legit. Also with a BSN and a few years of experience in the ED and ICU you can apply for CRNA programs (these are also disliked by some on SDN).

This is note intended to start a scope of practice debate. However, these opportunities exist for DNPs and CRNAs and will probably expand as health care needs increase.

It is true that DNP's will continue to expand because they have significant lobbying power. However, I would go PA-C before DNP. The program I hold acceptance to is 7 years for DNP vs 5 years for PA-C, so being a PA = a lot less debt. Of course, the DNP would be a "doctor," but I'm not looking for that. I would however consider CRNA.

 

[45408]

Try to shadow. The only way to see what these people do every day is to go watch them do it every day.

 

[slickdeals]

I do prescribe under protocol and have a reasonable (i.e. comfortable to me) level of autonomy in that respect. I do NOT diagnose nor do I want to as I do not have that training or pretend to.

I know what I do is the exception, not norm, but pharmacists are more than filling automatons. I do so many things in my job beyond the dispensing role. I do a lot of work with clinical decision making, P&T, chemotherapy, writing policies and protocols...a lot of interesting stuff besides filling orders. Just want to give pharmacy a fair representation.

As I said before, I think this really comes down to how much patient contact you want to have. There are definite pros and cons to each profession in terms of cost of education, salary, job security etc. If you want 100% patient care, go the PA/NP route, absolutely. I just wanted to share that there is much more to pharmacy than what most people have exposure to.

I still can't get over <80K pharmacist salaries. Well, I'm happy to live where I do - low CoL and higher salaries. Good combo.

really? Good for you. But I doubt that role/job is stable enough for the next 10 years. What if your hospital is downsized? What if one day the physicians/hospital management decide to cut your program that you're running now due to low and inefficient profit? Then, you'll either be back to dispensing model in a hospital ,or just work in retail, or no jobs. Remember that your prescribing privileges are still under supervision of physicians.

 

[MrPolarZero]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]hi Eddiel! I think none of us can help you on that. You must decide for yourself. Choose the one closest to your heart .

 

[EddieL]

Try to shadow. The only way to see what these people do every day is to go watch them do it every day.

That's another part that annoys me. I have a ton of shadowing experience; I've shadowed doctors, pharmacists, nurses, PAs, a NP, and a CRNA. Honestly, I just sit there so awed by just being in a hospital, that I feel like I like all of them the same . But realistically, I could most see myself as one of the latter three I've mentioned.

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]hi Eddiel! I think none of us can help you on that. You must decide for yourself. Choose the one closest to your heart .

Thanks I'll keep following it and hope I end up where I want to be !

 

[mkl120]

I am a PharmD (just graduated in May). When I entered pharmacy school, the job market was GREAT. This year, some of my friends don't have jobs yet... but many many more people are doing residencies in clinical pharmacy or fellowships in the pharmaceutical industry. This is 1 to 2 years of additional training at about half the pay... but one year= 5 years experience and opens a ton of more doors opportunity wise. I am currently doing a PGY1 residency in Pennsylvannia and I absolutely love it. I am on the patient floors, on rounds with physicians, medical residents, NPs, and some PAs. Our pharmacists can change doses and drugs according to P&T protocol which is really great because then MDs don't have to be paged for common issues and can focus on more pertinent things. We make dosing recommendations, recommend drugs, keep the medical team informed of issues with certain drugs, and are definitely the "drug experts". I love my job but it is a lot of work. Hospital pharmacy (especially clinical pharmacy) is a much different world than retail pharmacy. Don't let people who had bad experiences in retail turn you off from pharmacy in general. If you aren't a business person who wants to deal with the retail side of things (and some people really love this and are great at their job in retail pharmacy! I loved my retail rotations during school because I was with people who loved their jobs and were good at their jobs). I also think that being a PA seems like a really great job. They get to see patients and have a lot of patient interaction. If I wasn't totally scared of needles, I may have considered it. So basically, the point is, you can be very clinical and very patient centered in pharmacy. If you have a positive attitude, you will have a great career. And if money is important to you, a lot of pharmacists work per diem (even one weekend a month or something like that) in retail or in another hospital or something for extra money on the side. I am from NJ and our hospital pharmacists (without a residency) start at $45 and hour entry level right out of school, with experience it is more. In retail, I have friends in NJ with major chains who are making > $55 an hour but they are only getting a guaranteed 32 hours a week bc retail is cutting their hours with the economy. Sorry to not help you make a decision, but they are both really good jobs, especially if you want to help people and make an impact on the management of their health.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

 

[careerchick]

Currently a high school senior (or I will be in the fall) in sort of a similar situation. I have not applied to any schools yet, but I am in the process of looking for and searching the right career choice and school for me. I have narrowed it down to a few... anyways thats besides the point lol .
I know this forum was written a few years ago, however I am curious to know what decision you ultimately made, how you came about that decision, and how you currently feel about that decision.
Hope you respond soon

 

[Tolbert]

Currently a high school senior (or I will be in the fall) in sort of a similar situation. I have not applied to any schools yet, but I am in the process of looking for and searching the right career choice and school for me. I have narrowed it down to a few... anyways thats besides the point lol .
I know this forum was written a few years ago, however I am curious to know what decision you ultimately made, how you came about that decision, and how you currently feel about that decision.
Hope you respond soon

^ but with that said the college I chose was basically off of financials, along with fit I guess. Entering this fall, can't wait.

 

[lovepink896]

I'm sorry this is really off topic! But do you live in Oklahoma? Haha you're name sounds like you would be

 

[Tolbert]

me?