NSUCOM Poor Placement Data

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MADD!!!

MADD!!!

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MADD!!! said:
Hey, so I was reading on match lists and NSU-COM's data really spooked me. 14 students unable to obtain any GME placement?!! Do you guys think this is b/c of their lower than average COMLEX 1 pass rates or what? This is a very high number for not even obtaining a transitional spot. @Goro thoughts?

Residency Match Data and COMLEX Level 3 Board Scores | NSU COM
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That’s what happens when you fail boards.

Don’t take things for granted especially during second year.

You don’t want to be those unfortunate few who have gpas in the 85-90 range and fail board.

It has happened.
 
Woah, 2 years in a row with lower than 90% pass rate. Almost 15% of the class failed Level 1 in 2016-2017. Wtf are they teaching their students? COMLEX Level 1 is a ****ty test but it has so many easy points that if you pay any attention at all during the first 2 years you should be able to pass it. Failing it is pretty atrocious, I am not surprised if it's the reason why these people failed to match. Did they even study?
 
MADD!!! said:
Hey, so I was reading on match lists and NSU-COM's data really spooked me. 14 students unable to obtain any GME placement?!! Do you guys think this is b/c of their lower than average COMLEX 1 pass rates or what? This is a very high number for not even obtaining a transitional spot. @Goro thoughts?

Residency Match Data and COMLEX Level 3 Board Scores | NSU COM
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14 out of how many?
EDIT:
14/201 = ~7% non-match rate. Even brand new schools like MUCOM and LUCOM have done better.

I believe that this is the second worst results in the country, after WCU. Can someone dig up the result results for the COMs that showed the % matching/[unnamed] school?
 
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UnoMas said:
Woah, 2 years in a row with lower than 90% pass rate. Almost 15% of the class failed Level 1 in 2016-2017. Wtf are they teaching their students? COMLEX Level 1 is a ****ty test but it has so many easy points that if you pay any attention at all during the first 2 years you should be able to pass it. Failing it is pretty atrocious, I am not surprised if it's the reason why these people failed to match. Did they even study?
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Two years in a row and three out of four. This is simply not acceptable for veteran school. Maybe dr. Patel's massive donation will help the school turn things around?
 
Goro said:
14 out of how many?
EDIT:
14/201 = ~7% non-match rate. Even brand new schools like MUCOM and LUCOM have done better.

I believe that this is the second worst results in the country, after WCU. Can someone dig up the result results for the COMs that showed the % matching/[unnamed] school?
Click to expand...

https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-...rt-2018-final-apr162018.pdf?sfvrsn=5e1f2597_2

Also 201 is the total number that did match in AOA or ACGME. I believe the math should be 201 + 6 (military) = 207/221 = 93.66% placement rate. This corresponds most closely with the second-lowest COM for placement rates this year. Very shocking for NSU, b/c like you said they are a veteran school, have a lot of GME of their own, and are in FL where there has been a BOOM of new residency programs recently.

Also yea, ACOM had a 99% placement rate. https://www.acom.edu/wp-content/uploads/ACOM_2018_Residency_Placement_Match_Results.pdf
 
MADD!!! said:
https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-...rt-2018-final-apr162018.pdf?sfvrsn=5e1f2597_2

Also 201 is the total number that did match in AOA or ACGME. I believe the math should be 201 + 6 (military) = 207/221 = 93.66% placement rate. This corresponds most closely with the second-lowest COM for placement rates this year. Very shocking for NSU, b/c like you said they are a veteran school, have a lot of GME of their own, and are in FL where there has been a BOOM of new residency programs recently.

Also yea, ACOM had a 99% placement rate. https://www.acom.edu/wp-content/uploads/ACOM_2018_Residency_Placement_Match_Results.pdf
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This is even more damning.
 
I have a good friend who didn't match this year out of Nova and it's truly devastating. His wife told us that Nova did not send out instructions about the match info until they were already into a late-fee deadline. I also know that he passed both Step and Comlex on his first try, but did have low scores. Hold off on commenting on this individual because I don't know the whole story, I'm sure there is more to it. All I know is Nova really has to address this issue because it's downright criminal to put someone through this entire process at this kind of cost and not be able to help them match somewhere. I'm a current student here and this kind of stuff is terrifying to me.
 
Spectreman said:
I have a good friend who didn't match this year out of Nova and it's truly devastating. His wife told us that Nova did not send out instructions about the match info until they were already into a late-fee deadline. I also know that he passed both Step and Comlex on his first try, but did have low scores. Hold off on commenting on this individual because I don't know the whole story, I'm sure there is more to it. All I know is Nova really has to address this issue because it's downright criminal to put someone through this entire process at this kind of cost and not be able to help them match somewhere. I'm a current student here and this kind of stuff is terrifying to me.
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It ultimately just means that you have to put in more legwork for match planning and backup plans, because you won't get that support from your school.

Realistically, you shouldn't need the school to tell you when deadlines are for for the match. This is your future. You need to take ownership of it. Its true, a lot of MD schools go out of their way to make the logistics of the match as easy as possible, but for those of us that went to DO schools or MD schools that didn't do that, we have to figure that stuff out on our own.

If you are coming up on applying, the NRMP website (as well as AOA website for that matter) and ERAS should be your best friend. You should be hanging out on the Match Timeline page, hitting up the Match Registration page, checking out the SOAP page, and in general know the ins and outs of the applying, ranking, and matching process. Knowing this stuff is especially important for DOs, because we are already at a disadvantage when it comes to matching.
 
hallowmann said:
It ultimately just means that you have to put in more legwork for match planning and backup plans, because you won't get that support from your school.

Realistically, you shouldn't need the school to tell you when deadlines are for for the match. This is your future. You need to take ownership of it. Its true, a lot of MD schools go out of their way to make the logistics of the match as easy as possible, but for those of us that went to DO schools or MD schools that didn't do that, we have to figure that stuff out on our own.

If you are coming up on applying, the NRMP website (as well as AOA website for that matter) and ERAS should be your best friend. You should be hanging out on the Match Timeline page, hitting up the Match Registration page, checking out the SOAP page, and in general know the ins and outs of the applying, ranking, and matching process. Knowing this stuff is especially important for DOs, because we are already at a disadvantage when it comes to matching.
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I agree with all of this, but I feel like Nova is dropping the ball as they open more schools and obsess over growth and not cultiavting their current students. I really hope we can make them refocus their efforts.
 
MADD!!! said:
https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-...rt-2018-final-apr162018.pdf?sfvrsn=5e1f2597_2

Also 201 is the total number that did match in AOA or ACGME. I believe the math should be 201 + 6 (military) = 207/221 = 93.66% placement rate. This corresponds most closely with the second-lowest COM for placement rates this year. Very shocking for NSU, b/c like you said they are a veteran school, have a lot of GME of their own, and are in FL where there has been a BOOM of new residency programs recently.

Also yea, ACOM had a 99% placement rate. https://www.acom.edu/wp-content/uploads/ACOM_2018_Residency_Placement_Match_Results.pdf
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Do you or anyone else know for sure which school had the 91.91% placement?
I do not believe it was WCU since they are printing a 99.7% match rate.
Vital Statistics | William Carey University

OSU printed a 100% match rate:
Graduate Outcome Data | OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine | OSU Center for Health Sciences - Oklahoma State University
 
jkdoctor said:
Do you or anyone else know for sure which school had the 91.91% placement?
I do not believe it was WCU since they are printing a 99.7% match rate.
Vital Statistics | William Carey University

OSU printed a 100% match rate:
Graduate Outcome Data | OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine | OSU Center for Health Sciences - Oklahoma State University
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WCU students have told me that they're the one with the 92% match rate.

Did you notice that the "successful match" for 2018 doesn't add up to 99.7%?????????

upload_2018-7-31_12-9-28.png
 
Goro said:
WCU students have told me that they're the one with the 92% match rate.

Did you notice that the "successful match" for 2018 doesn't add up to 99.7%?????????

View attachment 238175
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They would also have to have a class size of 3333 if only 1 person went military match to have a 0.03% military match rate, even bigger if more than 1 person.
 
sunshinefl said:
They would also have to have a class size of 3333 if only 1 person went military match to have a 0.03% military match rate, even bigger if more than 1 person.
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:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆:=|:-):
 
What's going on with NSUCOM? It's supposed to be a good school in a good location with major hospital systems.
 
Mona nucleosis said:
Their admissions office focuses really heavily on community/feel-good ECs and they really bend their admissions standards if you can speak spanish. It's not a surprise that said students struggle academically.
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I guess they are not MCAT obsessed anymore... My friend was accepted there in 2012 without an interview because his MCAT was in the high 20s.
 
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DrMcLovin said:
Thats strange, do they have a linkage program or something? I didn’t even get an interview with an MCAT > 30 in 2014
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No linkage program that I know of... He went there for a campus tour but he told me it was not a formal interview.
 
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W19 said:
What's going on with NSUCOM? It's supposed to be a good school in a good location with major hospital systems.
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It is by reputation a good school, but it actually isn't and could be much better than it is. When a school is able to admit mostly smart and self driven people based on reputation alone, the school can get away with a lot. I don't know how admin is like now but the ones I knew during my time there were un-inspiring at best. Still, they are a medium in which to start a medical career
 
ILikeFood said:
It is by reputation a good school, but it actually isn't and could be much better than it is. When a school is able to admit mostly smart and self driven people based on reputation alone, the school can get away with a lot. I don't know how admin is like now but the ones I knew during my time there were un-inspiring at best. Still, they are a medium in which to start a medical career
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I used to put them among the DO schools that got their s*** together, but I have been seeing stuffs lately that make me think that people who are running the school are dropping the ball big time.
 
W19 said:
I used to put them among the DO schools that got their s*** together, but I have been seeing stuffs lately that make me think that people who are running the school are dropping the ball big time.
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In all honesty, I don't think the administrators were ever able to accomplish anything beyond the bare minimum: providing people to teach class, providing hospitals to take students. A lot of them, with titles like "manager" or "associate dean" or "assistant professor" were entirely unavailable and barely interacted with students. For the most part it didn't matter. The students did well enough, as a whole, and the admin collected their paychecks and enjoyed their titles. The current dean is an OMM nutjob who - and this is from a previous poster who was an NSU student before my time - as a faculty member engaged in a relationship with a medical student. I don't know if they're still together but when I left the dean was still with her, and she had finished residency and become a faculty member. The previous dean was at least sociable and engaged with the students in a humane manner. If they've dropped the ball its only in the sense that they didn't admit enough talented students with the crazy self drive to get all the way through unscathed.
 
W19 said:
What's going on with NSUCOM? It's supposed to be a good school in a good location with major hospital systems.
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four consecutive years of declining first-time COMLEX pass rates. They're now at ~85% and on top of this, some 7% of their 2018 grads failed to match. This was the second worst match rate among all the COMs (only WCU did worse). These are things you expect from a new school, not a veteran. Something is very wrong there.
 
ILikeFood said:
If they've dropped the ball its only in the sense that they didn't admit enough talented students with the crazy self drive to get all the way through unscathed.
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That’s where I have to disagree. Blaming the students is exactly what administrators would love to do in this situation. They’ve dropped the ball in that their efforts are focused on expansion. The dean is almost never on campus because she’s in Clearwater getting the new school set up. The faculty is all caught up in the MD curriculum and Clearwater expansion. They’re currently trying to address the issue by raising their minimum for GPA/MCAT, but honestly don’t think that’s going to solve the problem, they’ve always had pretty good stats there.
 
Spectreman said:
That’s where I have to disagree. Blaming the students is exactly what administrators would love to do in this situation. They’ve dropped the ball in that their efforts are focused on expansion. The dean is almost never on campus because she’s in Clearwater getting the new school set up. The faculty is all caught up in the MD curriculum and Clearwater expansion. They’re currently trying to address the issue by raising their minimum for GPA/MCAT, but honestly don’t think that’s going to solve the problem, they’ve always had pretty good stats there.
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The message I'm getting across is that I was always under the impression the students gave NSU their reputation, and not the other way around, and because of this the admin has been able to get away with a lot.
 
ILikeFood said:
The message I'm getting across is that I was always under the impression the students gave NSU their reputation, and not the other way around, and because of this the admin has been able to get away with a lot.
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In general, a med school is only as good as its students, but most people who are admitted to med school can handle med school. Therefore when you see issues like those at Nova, it's on the school, NOT the students.
 
Definitely something up with the school. The AOA match still had like 300+ FM residencies available post-match. If this continues in the Single Accreditation System, much more ppl will be screwed out of residency spots if they don't apply correctly, b/c IMG's will fill in the gaps on the first run.
 
Goro said:
WCU students have told me that they're the one with the 92% match rate.

Did you notice that the "successful match" for 2018 doesn't add up to 99.7%?????????

View attachment 238175
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Also, if you notice the only numbers that add up are for 2017. 2014-2015 add to >100% and 2016 adds to a few percentage points less than their reported total.

They seem to be have a pretty significant issue with math. Doesn't bode well for the all the money they're pouring into new schools.
 
DrMcLovin said:
Thats strange, do they have a linkage program or something? I didn’t even get an interview with an MCAT > 30 in 2014
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Master's program has a linkage program. Uncertain of exact GPA requirement but my friend who did it mentioned a significant portion of the master's class doesn't meet the GPA requirement.
 
ILikeFood said:
The message I'm getting across is that I was always under the impression the students gave NSU their reputation, and not the other way around, and because of this the admin has been able to get away with a lot.
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I'm a recent grad. This is still completely true. They give you lots of fluff about all the support they'll have for you during orientation week but after that - and ESPECIALLY in the third and fourth years - there's a very real sense that you're on your own. There's practically no capable advising in the clinical education office.

The current Dean was less than inspiring in my experience. I used to go to her town hall meetings with students and she was very preoccupied with meaningless, arcane metrics and labyrinthine administration structures. We would show up asking about the school helping with a UWorld group discount (of course not, that's for the USMLE, we're not responsible for preparing you for that) and we would get a powerpoint about how the Vice Associate Dean of the Undersecretary of Student Academic Advisory Affairs was now the Senior Field Marshall Student Advisor for Research Affairs and the Vice Associate Dean of the Undersecretary of Student Academic Advisory Affairs position would be split up into Assistant to the Regional Manager for Student Academic Advisory Affairs and Viceroy of Student Affairs and Advising. It was exasperating.
 
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Bill Brasky said:
I'm a recent grad. This is still completely true. They give you lots of fluff about all the support they'll have for you during orientation week but after that - and ESPECIALLY in the third and fourth years - there's a very real sense that you're on your own. There's practically no capable advising in the clinical education office.

The current Dean was less than inspiring in my experience. I used to go to her town hall meetings with students and she was very preoccupied with meaningless, arcane metrics and labyrinthine administration structures. We would show up asking about the school helping with a UWorld group discount (of course not, that's for the USMLE, we're not responsible for preparing you for that) and we would get a powerpoint about how the Vice Associate Dean of the Undersecretary of Student Academic Advisory Affairs was now the Senior Field Marshall Student Advisor for Research Affairs and the Vice Associate Dean of the Undersecretary of Student Academic Advisory Affairs position would be split up into Assistant to the Regional Manager for Student Academic Advisory Affairs and Viceroy of Student Affairs and Advising. It was exasperating.
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Oh my gosh, this is so true. There is a plethora of admin that have bizarre ways of justifying their salary. It’s a money making behemoth and boy there sure are a lot of people getting their hands in that cookie jar.
 
Bill Brasky said:
I'm a recent grad. This is still completely true. They give you lots of fluff about all the support they'll have for you during orientation week but after that - and ESPECIALLY in the third and fourth years - there's a very real sense that you're on your own. There's practically no capable advising in the clinical education office.

The current Dean was less than inspiring in my experience. I used to go to her town hall meetings with students and she was very preoccupied with meaningless, arcane metrics and labyrinthine administration structures. We would show up asking about the school helping with a UWorld group discount (of course not, that's for the USMLE, we're not responsible for preparing you for that) and we would get a powerpoint about how the Vice Associate Dean of the Undersecretary of Student Academic Advisory Affairs was now the Senior Field Marshall Student Advisor for Research Affairs and the Vice Associate Dean of the Undersecretary of Student Academic Advisory Affairs position would be split up into Assistant to the Regional Manager for Student Academic Advisory Affairs and Viceroy of Student Affairs and Advising. It was exasperating.
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Haha too real
 
Adrenaline Junky said:
Nova has a 7 and 8 year BS/DO linkage im actually applying to as a safety but this threads making me nervous. Its non binding but the acceptance statistics are extremely low but I heard they weed out alot with their matriculation standards
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Why would you do such a thing? By backup does that mean you are applying to BS/MD programs and are a HS senior?
 
Adrenaline Junky said:
That way if I am lucky enough to be accepted to a bs/md i can follow that route if not If i am accepted to Novas BS/DO or any of the other two bs/dos im applying to I can do my undergrad through the program and apply out to MD schools based on my statistics and always have my provisional acceptance as a backup.
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Won't the MD schools know that you are basically already enrolled in a DO school?...
 
WCUCOM student here... here to defend our... honor I guess
We did eventually figure out what was going on with our poor match rates. First of all our board prep is disgustingly bad. We were often taught things that were never or rarely tested on boards and for level 2 we were on our own but we had to get through all of the schools busy work in order to study. I had about a week and a half to study. Our PE prep is also a major problem. We were given advice to make us faster such as skip past medical history or you don't need to listen to more than a few posts for Lungs and heart, if you have time do extra exams like neuro for a respiratory case, your SOAP notes don't need to start with a paragraph, ect. We were never taught so of the humanistic points that are so important that you forget when you are nervous like recognition of pain, deaths in the family and helping with follow up or planning with family. It seemed more like they were just guessing what we needed to know. Unlike most schools we had a ton of OSCEs that we have to pass before we can take the PE. As you can guess we had to do everything the schools way in order to pass, this led to all of the bad habits becoming ingrained in our heads which often led to confusion and double to normal failure rate. We were also advised to take it later in the year which led to another problem, no passing PE by rank list deadlines.
Second, our school is notorious for giving bad and/or conflicting advice from day one. This leads to a huge amount of distrust. Students would often ignore whole lectures because they were unsure if it was just test material or relevant information. This also caused a bit of a split set of groups, One that never trusted anything that came from the school, one that kind of trusted the school if it lined up with some source they trusted and one that trusted every single thing the school stated. Obviously this caused a problem when faculty would look at your scores and tell you that you were only competitive for family medicine or you do need to take the USMLE for any reason. The dis-trusters would take the extreme opposite leading to people applying to Gas, EM, ortho, urology or Gen Surg in a small region with weak scores from a weak school while the super-trusters would apply to similar fields in a few more states with only comlex scores or would believe they were only going to match family or rural IM so thats all they did. While the middle grounders either figured things out or they SOAPed into FM or took a TRI. Last years match was a sad day for a lot of people and an awesome day for a few.
Third, the Aoa match was weak, so this forced people that were not prepared to apply in the NRMP match to have to throw in a late application and have to SOAP or scramble.

As you can imagine not everybody found something, the smart ones that saw the way the tide was flowing delayed graduation, giving them time to take USMLE and apply broader. Some were able to get last minute placement. However some that just could not pass the PE got stuck in limbo.

I am willing to bet something similar happened at NSUCOM and they got their hand stuck in the Aoa door as it slammed shut. Over time this will get cleaned up for both schools or we are going to have to see some schools close down if they can't match people. I know at Carey next year they will be putting into place a new policy with boards, a two strikes and youre out kind of thing. Rumors about mandatory 5th years for those that don't place are also floating about but I doubt them.
 
Adrenaline Junky said:
Nova has a 7 and 8 year BS/DO linkage im actually applying to as a safety but this threads making me nervous. Its non binding but the acceptance statistics are extremely low but I heard they weed out alot with their matriculation standards
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I think if you have the stats to match into a BS/DO program then chances are you probably have some full rides or can obtain some at other places. I don't recommend you go into any program that binds you to a degree or professional plan before you have the chance to feel out or determine for sure what you truly want to do with your life.

And if you decide you want to be a doctor, you'll have hopefully taken college seriously and just do well on the MCAT, which in all truth is a test that has ample material and schedules these days to get you a good score.
 
When you couple weaker students (found in many DO schools) with weak professors (also found in many DO schools), you have a perfect storm. I'm sure the outcomes associated with many of the new 15 or so DO schools (whoot! whoot!) which have opened, or are planned to open soon, will not be positive in the combined match.

Whenever pre-meds I run across ask me for advice, I always say do everything possible to get into a MD program, even if that means you take an extra year to prepare for the MCAT. I have a lot of empathy for all DO students since they need to persevere in spite of many DO school's shortcomings. (And to your credit, many of you are.)
 
Wjldenver said:
Whenever pre-meds I run across ask me for advice, I always say do everything possible to get into a MD program, even if that means you take an extra year to prepare for the MCAT. I have a lot of empathy for all DO students since they need to persevere in spite of many DO school's shortcomings. (And to your credit, many of you are.)
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100% agree. Despite people giving flak for this advice, it's the best thing to do.
 
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WorldChanger36 said:
WCUCOM student here... here to defend our... honor I guess
We did eventually figure out what was going on with our poor match rates. First of all our board prep is disgustingly bad. We were often taught things that were never or rarely tested on boards and for level 2 we were on our own but we had to get through all of the schools busy work in order to study. I had about a week and a half to study. Our PE prep is also a major problem. We were given advice to make us faster such as skip past medical history or you don't need to listen to more than a few posts for Lungs and heart, if you have time do extra exams like neuro for a respiratory case, your SOAP notes don't need to start with a paragraph, ect. We were never taught so of the humanistic points that are so important that you forget when you are nervous like recognition of pain, deaths in the family and helping with follow up or planning with family. It seemed more like they were just guessing what we needed to know. Unlike most schools we had a ton of OSCEs that we have to pass before we can take the PE. As you can guess we had to do everything the schools way in order to pass, this led to all of the bad habits becoming ingrained in our heads which often led to confusion and double to normal failure rate. We were also advised to take it later in the year which led to another problem, no passing PE by rank list deadlines.
Second, our school is notorious for giving bad and/or conflicting advice from day one. This leads to a huge amount of distrust. Students would often ignore whole lectures because they were unsure if it was just test material or relevant information. This also caused a bit of a split set of groups, One that never trusted anything that came from the school, one that kind of trusted the school if it lined up with some source they trusted and one that trusted every single thing the school stated. Obviously this caused a problem when faculty would look at your scores and tell you that you were only competitive for family medicine or you do need to take the USMLE for any reason. The dis-trusters would take the extreme opposite leading to people applying to Gas, EM, ortho, urology or Gen Surg in a small region with weak scores from a weak school while the super-trusters would apply to similar fields in a few more states with only comlex scores or would believe they were only going to match family or rural IM so thats all they did. While the middle grounders either figured things out or they SOAPed into FM or took a TRI. Last years match was a sad day for a lot of people and an awesome day for a few.
Third, the Aoa match was weak, so this forced people that were not prepared to apply in the NRMP match to have to throw in a late application and have to SOAP or scramble.

As you can imagine not everybody found something, the smart ones that saw the way the tide was flowing delayed graduation, giving them time to take USMLE and apply broader. Some were able to get last minute placement. However some that just could not pass the PE got stuck in limbo.

I am willing to bet something similar happened at NSUCOM and they got their hand stuck in the Aoa door as it slammed shut. Over time this will get cleaned up for both schools or we are going to have to see some schools close down if they can't match people. I know at Carey next year they will be putting into place a new policy with boards, a two strikes and youre out kind of thing. Rumors about mandatory 5th years for those that don't place are also floating about but I doubt them.
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alprazoslam said:
sounds like LMU DCOM
3 weeks of dedicated with tons of time wasting material during spring semester of M2, terrible board advice, a patient care class that teaches what the class director thinks is important and not how to do well on step 2 PE. Our match rate is fine for the moment though but assuming as the anvil squeezes it will not remain that way.
Essentially our class ended up with half the board prep in comparison to the previous class, eloquently occurring during the year NBOME reevaluates comlex passing standard, we tried to get comlex pushed back a month but admin refused saying "we needed scores back before clinical starts" even though scores would have still been released on time if pushed back. much (assuming 2/3+) of our class scored sub 500 this year sadly.

Sucks to hear most DO schools seem rather meh when it comes to leadership, but what do you expect from those who still believe cranial lmao
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Mercy.
 
I'm telling y'all.

DO programs are out on a mission to screw us over and go out of their way to make **** harder for us every minute they can.

Hence our class average board scores drop and many of us are relegated to primary care (which sucks for those who had other plans before coming to medical school).

In the end, it's a win-win for them because "Look! our school produced 90% more primary care physicians!" and then their stupid-ass rankings go up and I'm SURE they get some kickback for it.

There WILL be a divide where you will see DO programs producing most of the FM and IM docs and MD programs will be producing specialists off the bat.

It's bound to happen especially with these new schools taking potential students who would have most likely gone to the Caribbean.

Maybe I'm paranoid and surgery hours are getting to me but it is what it is.

I never realized how much extra bull**** us DOs have to go through.

A majority of DO schools have a mission of producing PC docs.

If you don't like that.. then please do not apply or go to a DO program as chances are... you WILL end up doing PC.... since that's the mission...

Pre-meds reading this...

Choose wisely.
 
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Can we really be surprised though? Most of these "school leaders" are from back in the day when it was not competitive to get into MD school and only those who were really really really bad ended up matriculating at DO schools. Add in the fact 30-40 years ago the osteopathicness was so much stronger than it is now (IE so much more OMM than now and less real science).
The above are usually the ones leading each DO school and the NBOME. Only way to fix it is somehow push out the old and bring in the new once we all graduate. Otherwise its just an easy way for the old guard to pad their pockets at the cost of us po' folk students.

I doubt it has much to do with "pushing us into primary care" then as it does generalized apathy and inability to structure a school as well as many MD schools (think they are teaching here in BFE for a reason) and not at a regular university... and more often than not its not by choice, unless of course they have friends in the upper spires that toss them some ridiculous salary to give redundant and meaningless lectures
 
alprazoslam said:
Can we really be surprised though? Most of these "school leaders" are from back in the day when it was not competitive to get into MD school and only those who were really really really bad ended up matriculating at DO schools. Add in the fact 30-40 years ago the osteopathicness was so much stronger than it is now (IE so much more OMM than now and less real science).
The above are usually the ones leading each DO school and the NBOME. Only way to fix it is somehow push out the old and bring in the new once we all graduate. Otherwise its just an easy way for the old guard to pad their pockets at the cost of us po' folk students.
Click to expand...

The bolded is what I have been trying to tell you kids for quite awhile.

But really, people should not act surprised when most DO grads are going into Primary Care.

The DO -> PC/MD -> specialty divide has been going on for quite awhile.
 
NSU alum here. It's really sad and disheartening to see the school struggle lately. The campus infrastructure is beautiful and the clinical core sites are strong. They really need to overhaul the curriculum for the first two years, it is very outdated and disorganized and quality of lecturers is very hit or miss.

Really hope they take this as a wake up call and make the changes and support the students more.
 
Goro said:
The bolded is what I have been trying to tell you kids for quite awhile.

But really, people should not act surprised when most DO grads are going into Primary Care.

The DO -> PC/MD -> specialty divide has been going on for quite awhile.
Click to expand...

Too true but it seems the only people who become deans and assistant deans of DO schools are the “proud to be DO” chest thumpers and/or OMM fanatics.


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