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NSUCOM vs PCSOM

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fuzzwinkle11

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just got word of acceptance to NSUCOM off waitlist, so trying to compare these two.....I want to just hear some honest opinions from current students on reasons i might want to go to NOVA versus PCSOM, with a special emphasis on reasons i might NOT want to go to either.......interests right now are in anesthesiology and radiology, and i DON'T CARE about the attendance policy/dress code at either school as i'm cool with both. Lets hear what you have to say!
 

eadysx

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fuzzwinkle11 said:
with a special emphasis on reasons i might NOT want to go to either

Medical school is hard, takes away from good drinking time, and is a lame place to pick up chicks. Hope this helps. :laugh:

E-
 

fuzzwinkle11

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eadysx said:
Medical school is hard, takes away from good drinking time, and is a lame place to pick up chicks. Hope this helps. :laugh:

E-

doh....meant looking for negatives to PCSOM or NOVA really, I'm positive i'll be at one the schools that accepted me next fall....
 

DoctorDoogie4

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Referring to your question....

If you dont mind the attendance policy (personally that would factor big in my desicion since I am an independent learner), then I suggest you attend the school that fits you the best. One thing I would worry about is cost. Our out of state tuition jumped up to 31,500. When I first started it was around 27K. I don't see any signs of the tuition decreasing or flattening out.

The one good thing that NSUCOM would have over PCSOM is the rotation sites. Some of the rotation sites at NSUCOM are at major hospitals in the state of Florida. Sad part, very few of them contain residency programs in your field. To think about it, only a few have a good amount of residency programs associated with it.

As for the academics, it's decent. A very good upper class friend once told me, medical school is what you put into it. If you put a lot into it, you might get a lot back. If you don't put hardly anything in it, then don't expect much back. Radiology is a very competitive field and anesthesiology is also getting competitive. So any medical school you go to, you are going to bust your butt to get into either residencies. Any medical school you go to will have it's ups and downs. Personally, you will find medical school to have a lot of downs (aka exams :smuggrin: ) Then again, I just realized I sold my soul to the devil when I came to medical school :laugh:
 

eadysx

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fuzzwinkle11 said:
doh....meant looking for negatives to PCSOM or NOVA really, I'm positive i'll be at one the schools that accepted me next fall....

Heh, I was just busting your chops.

I go to Pikeville. I like it ok here. Its a quite town with few distractions, a good place to study. I would say either school is going to be able to help you achieve your goals. Go to the school where you think you will be most comfortable living for at least 2 years. Good luck. PM me if you have any questions about PCSOM.

E-
 

fuzzwinkle11

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Doc 2b said:

This was the AP article at the local Pikeville newspaper that was talking about how students with a family (the guy i think they detailed had a wife and kid) can feed themselves with the $11,500 left over from federal loans and max $8,970 in private loans allowed by the budget..........I'm really not shocked that a guy with wife and kid can't quite make it on $20k a year. Come to think of it I'd be suprised if anyone in the same situation at NSUCOM where out of state tuition is now $31,500 (KCUMB is now $35k i think) could support a whole family on the money left over after loans........but i'm not trying to argue the point.....I'm more looking for opinions and I can definately see how something like this can take a school's image for a ride, though I'm not convinced its unique.

I'm troubled slightly by three things at NOVA that I haven't heard anything about though........how good is the faculty that teaches the first two years worth of class (board scores?), how many people at NOVA acutally get those prime spots at the nicest rotations (Mt. Sinai?) and what happens to everyone else in the lottery, and finally is living in that area of FL "distracting" to trying to learn in medical school (traffic, housing, general student seriousness, student attrition rate, caring of the faculty?)

thanks for comments all
 

GregsAnatomy

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fuzzwinkle11 said:
This was the AP article at the local Pikeville newspaper that was talking about how students with a family (the guy i think they detailed had a wife and kid) can feed themselves with the $11,500 left over from federal loans and max $8,970 in private loans allowed by the budget..........I'm really not shocked that a guy with wife and kid can't quite make it on $20k a year. Come to think of it I'd be suprised if anyone in the same situation at NSUCOM where out of state tuition is now $31,500 (KCUMB is now $35k i think) could support a whole family on the money left over after loans........but i'm not trying to argue the point.....I'm more looking for opinions and I can definately see how something like this can take a school's image for a ride, though I'm not convinced its unique.

I'm troubled slightly by three things at NOVA that I haven't heard anything about though........how good is the faculty that teaches the first two years worth of class (board scores?), how many people at NOVA acutally get those prime spots at the nicest rotations (Mt. Sinai?) and what happens to everyone else in the lottery, and finally is living in that area of FL "distracting" to trying to learn in medical school (traffic, housing, general student seriousness, student attrition rate, caring of the faculty?)

thanks for comments all

I'll attempt to answer your questions without sounding like an advertisement for NSU (not NOVA!)......

1) Having only completed my first year, I think that the basic science faculty is excellent, and the Anatomy department is particularly outstanding. Many also teach the dental, optometry, and physician assistant students. As far as board scores, the only statistic I have heard is that "we are at or above the national average in passing rate." As in applying to medical school, remember that it's important not to consider yourself a statistic. Your are your own person, and the amount of effort you put into studying for an exam (be it the MCAT or boards) ultimately determines how well you will do.

2) 15 people get rotations spots at Mt. Sinai. However, Broward General (the main hospital serving the Fort Lauderdale area), takes about 100. I've heard great things about this rotation site, and BG just opened a multi-million dollar expansion and a new Level I Trauma Center.
As another poster mentioned, however, Broward General has limited residencies--only family practice and dermatology. Most of the rest of rotations sites are at smaller hospitals in the greater Miami area, and two others in Orlando (*the* most requested rotation site in the Class of 2007 lottery) and Suncoast in Tampa (has the most residencies, including anesthesiology and surgery).

3) I will admit that Fort Lauderdale *can* be a little distracting...haha. The beach, Riverfront nightlife district, and Hard Rock Casino are just a few minutes from school. South Beach is a 20 minute drive. And the weather is beautiful year round (save for hurricanes). Don't try and mock "student seriousness" of any medical student....we all know what a big commitment it is. I think housing is great in the area, albeit slightly more expensive than the rest of the country. Traffic is just something you have to get used to, although I don't encounter any on my 5 minute drive to school each day.

Hope this helps, if you have any other questions just ask.
 

fuzzwinkle11

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Thank you Pegasus52082, you put a very good perspective out there. I didn't mean to say anything about general student seriousness, but was rather just worried about being lost in the numbers in an area full of distractions.....though you are right that its med school and it won't matter much anyways.

The rotation sites look excellent and it is a major positive point for NSU.....not quite as good as KCUMB's list, but NSUCOM is looking at a more regional focus.

Looking at all this I'm feeling that the smaller class size and more personal interaction of faculty with potential students at PCSOM has a stronger advantage for me versus NSUCOM. The only questions that still remain for me will be how the core rotation sites for PCSOM will affect applications for residencies outside of the Eastern KY region. I've spoken with several students thus far who have seen no problems in this area, but given the strongly mission driven administration at PCSOM and the many ways they encourage primary care in rural/appalachia areas, it still rests as a uneasy topic for me.

left to me at the moment I'd say PCSOM hands down for my personal learning preferences, but I'd like to hear how NSUCOM might compete with PCSOM for residency placement outside of primary care and non-appalachian regions. My overall feeling is that boards will matter more than anything else and it will eventually just rest on my shoulders to perform and apply.
 

kendall

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fuzzwinkle11 said:
Thank you Pegasus52082, you put a very good perspective out there. I didn't mean to say anything about general student seriousness, but was rather just worried about being lost in the numbers in an area full of distractions.....though you are right that its med school and it won't matter much anyways.

The rotation sites look excellent and it is a major positive point for NSU.....not quite as good as KCUMB's list, but NSUCOM is looking at a more regional focus.

Looking at all this I'm feeling that the smaller class size and more personal interaction of faculty with potential students at PCSOM has a stronger advantage for me versus NSUCOM. The only questions that still remain for me will be how the core rotation sites for PCSOM will affect applications for residencies outside of the Eastern KY region. I've spoken with several students thus far who have seen no problems in this area, but given the strongly mission driven administration at PCSOM and the many ways they encourage primary care in rural/appalachia areas, it still rests as a uneasy topic for me.

left to me at the moment I'd say PCSOM hands down for my personal learning preferences, but I'd like to hear how NSUCOM might compete with PCSOM for residency placement outside of primary care and non-appalachian regions. My overall feeling is that boards will matter more than anything else and it will eventually just rest on my shoulders to perform and apply.

there is a post somewhere (i can't remember where, maybe someone else can guide you) that had the match list for the PCSOM class of '05. although the majority stayed in the region (KY, WV, VA, NC, TN) and went into primary care residencies, there were 4 or 5 surg spots, several EM, a few gas, a pathology, one neurosx, neurology, etc... and they went all over the place (if memory serves, 20 different states). i was thinking along the same lines as you (could i only do rural primary care?) before i decided on Pikeville, but i'm a kentucky boy, so in the end it was a pretty easy choice, and i'm convinced now that i will be able to go into whatever field i choose. hope to see you in august. good luck, and forgive my gratuitous use of parentheses.

k
 

bgibney

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fuzzwinkle11 said:
left to me at the moment I'd say PCSOM hands down for my personal learning preferences, but I'd like to hear how NSUCOM might compete with PCSOM for residency placement outside of primary care and non-appalachian regions. My overall feeling is that boards will matter more than anything else and it will eventually just rest on my shoulders to perform and apply.

Pick the school that will be most supportive of your career goals, i.e., make sure that the 3rd yr rotations are solid (where you can get strong core LORs), that there is ample time for audition rotations, and that the faculty and physicians you interact with there can help place a good word for you when application time runs around. You can accomplish this by trying to get in contact with current MS3s and 4s.

Places always like to take people they know, followed by people that their friends know and recommend. You can look at the article cited below regarding residency selection in ortho (probably pretty comparable across the board). Good luck on your choice.

Bernstein AD, Jazrawi LM, Elbeshbeshy B, Della Valle CJ, Zuckerman JD.
An analysis of orthopaedic residency selection criteria.
Bull Hosp Jt Dis. 2002-2003;61(1-2):49-57.

Also found in JBJS-American 2002; 84a(11): 2090-2096.
 

eadysx

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kendall said:
there is a post somewhere (i can't remember where, maybe someone else can guide you) that had the match list for the PCSOM class of '05.....

k

PCSOM 2005 Match List

Unofficial list. Repeated items indicate multiple students at the same program.

FP, ETSU, Johnson City, TN
Internship. St. Anthony Hospital, Oklahoma City, OK
IM/EM, LSU Charity Med Ctr, New Orleans, LA
FP, UK (Hazard) Med Ctr, Hazard, KY
IM, Tripler Army Med Ctr, Honolulu, HI
FP, St. Joseph Med Ctr, South Bend, IN
FP, U. of Kentucky, Lexington, KY
OB/GYN, POH/St. Joseph Mercy, Pontiac, MI
FP, Eastern Maine Medical Center, Bangor, ME
Pediatrics, Cabell Huntington Hospital, Huntington, WV
Surgery, Garden City Hospital, Garden City, MI
Internship, Our Lady of Bellefonte, Ashland, KY
IM, Carraway Methodist Med Ctr, Birmingham, AL
Transitional year, UT Medical Ctr, Knoxville, TN
Transitional year, UT Medical Ctr, Knoxville, TN
FP, St. Elizabeth Hospital, Covington, KY
Anesthesiology, Des Peres Hospital, St. Louis, MO
FP, Palmetto Richland Hosp., Columbia, SC
IM, MUSC, Charleston, SC
IM, UT Medical Ctr, Knoxville, TN
FP, Northwest Arkansas AHEC, Fayetteville, AR
Pathology, U. of Mississippi Medical Ctr, Jackson, MS
FP, Deaconess Hospital, Evansville, IN
Surgery, Maricopa Med Ctr, Phoenix, AZ
Emergency Medicine, Pitt Co. Memorial Hosp., Greenville, NC
Pediatrics, U. of Maryland Med Ctr, Baltimore, MD
Pediatrics, Tulane U. Med Ctr, New Orleans, LA
Internship, St. Anthony Hospital, Oklahoma City, OK
Anesthesiology, VCU Health System, Richmond, VA
Anesthesiology, VCU Health System, Richmond, VA
Anesthesiology, VCU Health System, Richmond, VA
Neurosurgery, BroMenn Hospital/St. Joseph's Hospital, Bloomington, IL
Surgery, St. Joseph's Mercy of Macomb, Clinton Township, MI
FP/OMM, Botsford General Hospital, Farmington Hills, MI
FP, Our Lady of Bellefonte, Ashland, KY
Neurology, Grandview Hospital, Dayton, OH
Surgery, Grandview Hospital, Dayton, OH
ENT, Grandview Hospital, Dayton, OH
Internship, Doctors Hospital, Columbus, OH
Emergency Medicine, Doctors Hospital, Columbus, OH
Anesthesiology, Doctors Hospital, Columbus, OH
FP, Pikeville Med Ctr, Pikeville, KY
FP, Pikeville Med Ctr, Pikeville, KY
FP, Pikeville Med Ctr, Pikeville, KY
FP, Pikeville Med Ctr, Pikeville, KY
Internship, Pikeville Med Ctr, Pikeville, KY
Pediatrics, Akron General, Akron, OH
Internship, Norton Comm. Hospital, Norton, VA
IM, Norton Comm. Hospital, Norton, VA
IM, Norton Comm. Hospital, Norton, VA
FP, St. Johns Episcopal, Far Rockaway, NY
IM, Carilion Health System, Roanoke, VA
FP, Palmetto Richland Hosp., Columbia, SC
 
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fuzzwinkle11

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KY Residencies = 9
Non-KY Residencies = 43 :confused:

FP = 17
IM = 8
Internship = 6
Surgery = 4
AN = 4
Peds = 4
EM = 2
Transitional Year = 2
Neurosurgery = 1
OB/GYN = 1
Pathology = 1
ENT = 1

seen this before but this was the breakdown.....looks like a majority were placed outside of KY.....which I'd like to hear more about why? :confused:
and the majority of the 52 listed (72 in a class right?) went FP or IM.
I would like to see this kind of info for NSUCOM to compare whats what....
.....oh, and what the heck is an "internship" or "transitional year" residency match? :confused:

thanks for good replys all! :)
 

fuzzwinkle11

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Ok found the NSUCOM 2005 match list on their website:
FL internships: 71/168 (42%)
Non-FL internships: 97/168 (58%)

IM = 29
Traditional Rotating? = 27
FP = 24
Transitional (military) = 20
Peds = 13
OB/GYN = 8
General Surg = 7
EM = 5
Psychiatry = 3
Radiology = 2
AN = 2
Neurology = 1
Orthopedic Surg = 1
Phys Med/Rehab = 1

I realize that this doesn't give a whole picture of what jobs people end up getting into, but the spread of different interests/placements vs PCSOM is quite different.....some similarities, but I'd like to know more about what I can find out from looking at things like this when trying to pick a school....

is there a reason PCSOM doesn't publish its matches online like a lot of other places? .....just a guess but their match didn't look much like I would have expected given the strong mission statements.....any comments?

still curious how people spin traditional rotations into a final choice of practice, cause its obviously a different number than the people who are doing GMO and such in the military.......undecided maybe? research?
 

Robz

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wasn't there another thread for match list stats????
 

doc_holliday

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hello,

as going into my 2nd year at PCSOM, i remember how tough it was first to get an interview, let alone acceptances to other schools. and since they say hind sight is 20/20, i can honestly say i am pleased w/ the decision of coming down to pikevegas from a big city. sure there is practically nothing to do in the town, and there are days i feel like i have cabin fever, but with a small class size and faculty who will go out of their way for ya will ease the tension and create great friendships... besides, when it comes down to it, i smile everyday with my first year performance in medical school, which is what really counts... i would attribute this to having almost absolutely no distraction except for the infamous mark II :laugh:

28000 bux in tuition, which includes all your books, stethoscope, otoscope, OMT Table, laptop, white coat, scrubs, notes, SOMA/KOMA/ACOFP/AOA fees, i think its a decent deal (i'd imagine all would add up to 5 grand more)

in addition, i can stay in ky or go back to my home state, pcsom helps you as much as they can to meet your needs... and after meeting numerous reps from other schools, both allo and osteo, it may sound redundant, but its what you make of it...

so, simply put, i enjoy being at and representing pcsom... go with what your heart, brain, guts tell ya, b/c the last thing you'd want is to be miserable at either school...

if you have any questions, please feel free to pm me... good luck in your decision...

gc
 

Buster Douglas

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fuzzwinkle11 said:
...is there a reason PCSOM doesn't publish its matches online like a lot of other places? .....just a guess but their match didn't look much like I would have expected given the strong mission statements.....any comments?..
Everyone's got their theories, but I think it's just because our website is rarely updated. Our first years have been done with classes for a good while now and the 2008 class listing still isn't even listed yet.

I'm not sure how helpful this would be for you... but I wrote a post about the pros and cons of pcsom vs. lecom awhile back. I knew a lot about about both, with me here and my gf at lecom. I don't know much about nova except that it's in a badass location and that all the students were pissed that the administration was installing some new automated class-attendance-checker-thing.
 

Pikevillemedstudent

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fuzzwinkle11 said:
KY Residencies = 9
Non-KY Residencies = 43 :confused:

FP = 17
IM = 8
Internship = 6
Surgery = 4
AN = 4
Peds = 4
EM = 2
Transitional Year = 2
Neurosurgery = 1
OB/GYN = 1
Pathology = 1
ENT = 1

seen this before but this was the breakdown.....looks like a majority were placed outside of KY.....which I'd like to hear more about why? :confused:
and the majority of the 52 listed (72 in a class right?) went FP or IM.
I would like to see this kind of info for NSUCOM to compare whats what....
.....oh, and what the heck is an "internship" or "transitional year" residency match? :confused:

thanks for good replys all! :)

Usually only about half the class is from KY so alot of the others probably just wanted to get closer to home.

Internship is for those students who are either undecided or are applying to a non linked residency at the same hospital.

Transitional: there is alot of different reasons to chose this but I know those two and they said they chose that because they were undecided on a career path. Others enter transitional years for one year prior to starting different residencies like anesthia and radiology.
 

Pikevillemedstudent

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fuzzwinkle11 said:
I realize that this doesn't give a whole picture of what jobs people end up getting into, but the spread of different interests/placements vs PCSOM is quite different.....some similarities, but I'd like to know more about what I can find out from looking at things like this when trying to pick a school....

is there a reason PCSOM doesn't publish its matches online like a lot of other places? .....just a guess but their match didn't look much like I would have expected given the strong mission statements.....any comments?

still curious how people spin traditional rotations into a final choice of practice, cause its obviously a different number than the people who are doing GMO and such in the military.......undecided maybe? research?

PCSOM admin state that publishing the match list would violate the students privacy and refuse to do it.

Why would the match look any different from the mission statement? Over half went into primary care. Not everyone is going to end up in rural primary care no matter what the school does, but it is important to realize that rural areas need docs in all fields not just primary care. Hopefully most PCSOM grads will enter into practice in rural underserved area, primary care or not.
 

Buster Douglas

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Pikevillemedstudent said:
PCSOM admin state that publishing the match list would violate the students privacy and refuse to do it.
Not that I'm disagreeing with you that they said that, but if that's their reason for not posting the match results, then I find it interesting they that freely post our names and hometowns on the school website.
 

HoodyHoo

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fuzzwinkle11 said:
Thank you Pegasus52082, you put a very good perspective out there. I didn't mean to say anything about general student seriousness, but was rather just worried about being lost in the numbers in an area full of distractions.....though you are right that its med school and it won't matter much anyways.
As someone who did not try very hard and undergrad and did my fair share of partying, I would say that you are way too busy to be distracted by all that's going on in south florida.

At the same time, when you are stressed out, those distractions can be wonderful.....like easing your mind at the beach, going to miami for the day, everglades, sea world, whatever you're into...........

As far as residency placement, like you said, in the end it will be up to you, the scores you make, and the also the connections you make. I doubt either school has an advantage over the other in terms of placing their students.
 

Pikevillemedstudent

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Buster Douglas said:
Not that I'm disagreeing with you that they said that, but if that's their reason for not posting the match results, then I find it interesting they that freely post our names and hometowns on the school website.

I agree with you. I don't understand it myself.
 

fuzzwinkle11

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Thank you again for all your replies........I'm still leaning strongly towards PCSOM for its strength in classroom academics, I'm not entirely convinced though that NSUCOM wouldn't give me more "face time" with the departments I would be applying to in the match......that Pubmed article about Orthopedic residency selection was talking strongly about why I feel this is so important - it said that the number one selection criteria was the recommendation from in-house/personal interaction......so I'd like to hear more from PCSOM students if you have time, on what people can do to place in these non-primary fields if the amount of non-primary rotation time is so much less than other schools (talked to a guy who just matched Anesthesiology this year and he said "you can do it" but again I'm wondering if this is less of an uphill battle at schools like NSUCOM vs PCSOM.......

oh, and I realize that NSUCOM has a very substancial amount of required rural rotation in there, but just trying to get a feel of how much free elective time (personal rec "face" time) I'll get at either school.........for example both KCUMB and NSUCOM bragged about the wide array of rotation opportunities at the hospitals where graduates are aiming to apply for residency spots........completely left that point out at PCSOM interview, website, and stuff they've mailed me on the school.......

As for the rural aspect, I have absolutely no reason to think I won't love working in that setting, but getting the residency to do what you love to do is more of my concern.......

again, thanks for all your replies everyone and I appologize if I've bored anyone to death so far!
 

DoctorDoogie4

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for example both KCUMB and NSUCOM bragged about the wide array of rotation opportunities at the hospitals where graduates are aiming to apply for residency spots

I would be wary of this statement. As far as I know, you have 5 months of electives in which 3 of those months have to be primary care based. While the other 2 can't be of the same field. So you can't necessarily do 2 months of Emergency Med or 2 months of dermatology rotation. I just checked in my handbook. This is correct.
 

AUdacious

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About NSUCOM's Elective Rotations: All of the hoops can get confusing. Like DoctorDoogie said, we get 5 months of electives and a vacation month (which can be used as an elective instead if you want). I was pretty sure that we could do 2 electives in the same field (i.e. 2 months of EM/Derm/whatever nonprimary care field) but it gets tricky if you want to do MORE than 2. Here is what our handbook (p.16 on the on-line handbook) says about Elective Rotations.

"Elective Rotations
Students set up their own electives. However, the Office of Clinical Education must review and approve the elective rotation, in advance, in order for students to receive credit. Electives must meet the following
criteria:
1) At least three of the five available months of electives must be completed in family medicine, general internal medicine, general pediatrics, obstetrics/gynecology, or their subspecialities. Students who elect
to take the board review course will have this count as a primary care elective.
2) No more than two months of elective rotations may be done in the same or similar non-primary care discipline (primary care being defined as family practice, general internal medicine, general pediatrics,
or obstetrics/gynecology).
3) Students may select to utilize their vacation month as an elective. This elective may be done in any specialty desired as long as all primary care requirements have been met. If so, the usual approval and evaluation process will be required. It is strongly recommended, however, that students take a vacation.
Please note that there is no limit as to the number and type of primary care elective rotations a student
may select."

Hope this helps. Good luck with your decision.
 

fuzzwinkle11

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AUdacious:

Here was what i got from PCSOM clinical rotations handbook:

Elective Rotations - there are five one- month elective rotations to be selected by the student and approved by the PCSOM Chair, Department of Family Medicine.
These are restricted as follows:
• One month must be a medicine elective.
• One month must be a surgical elective.
• One month must be a behavioral science elective.
• Two months are unrestricted electives (with PCSOM approval).

.....so its 5 months elective to find a rec for match.....seems equal between the two (PCSOM vs NSUCOM) but there's no word on what will be "approved", though I'm not too worried about it.....looks like PCSOM has a slight edge in that they don't require that mandatory 3 rotations....

ok, thanks for finding that again!
and feel free to drop any opinions you might have....
 

dzdoctor

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I am finishing up my second year at PCSOM and am moving to Northern KY for my rotations. I have enjoyed the past two years (as much as you can enjoy med schoo) and am happy with my decision. It is a personal choice, though. It is a SMALL town with nothing to do, which can be good and bad. Most of the rotation sites for your 3rd and 4th year are great, and it isn't too hard to get the elective you want. We also have had over a 96% pass rate on the COMLEX. There are bad parts to the school also, but that will be the case anywhere. If you want more details, just ask.
 
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