J
junlujlu
I am interested in a Nuclear Medicine residency. Can anyone tell me what that is all about. What is the outlook for Nuclear Medicine jobs. Why is it so not competitive. Thanks.
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> What is the outlook for Nuclear Medicine jobs.
Dim.
Outside of academia, there are only few positions for 'nucs-only' physicians. Most of clinical nuclear medicine is provided by cardiology and radiology groups. For both of these professions, the 'nucs only' doc has a very limited use outside of his core competency (the interpretation of nucs studies). You can't take call for a radiology group and you can't pinch in in the office if one of the cardiologists is out of town.
Due to the poor job market, most of the people I know who went through nucs-only residencies went on to do a diagnostic radiology residency afterwards.
With PET-CT and SPECT-CT, the specialty is moving more and more towards a combination of functional and anatomic imaging. And in that field, a nucs-only residency just doesn't give you the requisite skills.
So, if you are interested in the idea of using nucleides to follow physiologic or pathologic processes, consider doing a radiology residency followed by a nucs fellowship.
> Why is it so not competitive. Thanks
Because despite the efforts of some academic nucs folks to talk up the field as the 'next big thing', most US medstudents see right through this and don't go into it.
Every time I display scepticism about the field, someone will slap me with the word 'molecular imaging'. Sounds great, I just haven't found anyone willing or able to explain to me what he actually means with that.
Dim.
Outside of academia, there are only few positions for 'nucs-only' physicians. Most of clinical nuclear medicine is provided by cardiology and radiology groups. For both of these professions, the 'nucs only' doc has a very limited use outside of his core competency (the interpretation of nucs studies). You can't take call for a radiology group and you can't pinch in in the office if one of the cardiologists is out of town.
Due to the poor job market, most of the people I know who went through nucs-only residencies went on to do a diagnostic radiology residency afterwards.
With PET-CT and SPECT-CT, the specialty is moving more and more towards a combination of functional and anatomic imaging. And in that field, a nucs-only residency just doesn't give you the requisite skills.
So, if you are interested in the idea of using nucleides to follow physiologic or pathologic processes, consider doing a radiology residency followed by a nucs fellowship.
> Why is it so not competitive. Thanks
Because despite the efforts of some academic nucs folks to talk up the field as the 'next big thing', most US medstudents see right through this and don't go into it.
Every time I display scepticism about the field, someone will slap me with the word 'molecular imaging'. Sounds great, I just haven't found anyone willing or able to explain to me what he actually means with that.
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To follow up f_W's helpful reply, I am curious about the idea of doing nucs first with the plan of getting into diagnostic rads after. Is this a viable option? I have personally seen it done, but I have also read many state that the rads programs don't like this and aren't exactly receptive to taking nucs people. Can others comment on this? Are you seeing this happen in your programs? I would tend to think that it still may be the best shot for a less than stellar applicant who would have little or no chance of matching into rads but could demonstrate strong ability, work ethic, enthusiasm, etc as a nuc resident. Nuc residents do have plenty of exposure to the rads attendings.
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I am curious about the idea of doing nucs first with the plan of getting into diagnostic rads after. Is this a viable option?
Yes and No. And you pointed out the various plusses and minuses pretty well.
In my limited experience, most of the graduates of our local nucs residency managed to do it, but some didn't. The ones who succeeded published pretty actively during their nucs residency and made contacts with people in the rads department. Some just slid into some R1 and R2 slots that opend up around the country during the year, others successfully went through the match.
It used to be pretty much guaranteed, but these days rads PD's in rads don't even talk to mere mortals anymore. But this will change. Already, this year things looked different from the two prior years.
Yes and No. And you pointed out the various plusses and minuses pretty well.
In my limited experience, most of the graduates of our local nucs residency managed to do it, but some didn't. The ones who succeeded published pretty actively during their nucs residency and made contacts with people in the rads department. Some just slid into some R1 and R2 slots that opend up around the country during the year, others successfully went through the match.
It used to be pretty much guaranteed, but these days rads PD's in rads don't even talk to mere mortals anymore. But this will change. Already, this year things looked different from the two prior years.
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Is the academic thing for real? Everyone always says "Outside of academia..."
Are there good academic jobs to be had? It seems like these would go to rads people with nuc fellowships for the same reasons.
I think f_W is correct about the change in the radiology match. I'm tired of it being so insanely competitive. But then again, I'm definitely in the "mere mortal" category, so what would you expect? Probably wishful thinking.
Are there good academic jobs to be had? It seems like these would go to rads people with nuc fellowships for the same reasons.
I think f_W is correct about the change in the radiology match. I'm tired of it being so insanely competitive. But then again, I'm definitely in the "mere mortal" category, so what would you expect? Probably wishful thinking.
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> Are there good academic jobs to be had?
No, and that is the point. The only people who will hire nucs-only graduates are themselves nucs-only graduates.
The people who compete for the jobs in academia usually have an extensive research background, sometimes a degree in physics or chemistry. The reality is, the job market for graduates of the nucs residencies is not that great. You will meet people (who have a residency program to fill) who will tell you otherwise, but they have a vested interest to twist the truth a bit.
One thing some nucs folks will tell you: See, with PET-CT MRI and regular CT will go out of business and ALL of oncologic imaging will be taken over by nuclear medicine. Unfortunately, most of the PET-CT growth happens within diagnostic radiology, FDG is just the second contrast agent.
No, and that is the point. The only people who will hire nucs-only graduates are themselves nucs-only graduates.
The people who compete for the jobs in academia usually have an extensive research background, sometimes a degree in physics or chemistry. The reality is, the job market for graduates of the nucs residencies is not that great. You will meet people (who have a residency program to fill) who will tell you otherwise, but they have a vested interest to twist the truth a bit.
One thing some nucs folks will tell you: See, with PET-CT MRI and regular CT will go out of business and ALL of oncologic imaging will be taken over by nuclear medicine. Unfortunately, most of the PET-CT growth happens within diagnostic radiology, FDG is just the second contrast agent.
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This is sad because Nuc Med is so cool. Don't Nuc Med docs do radioimmunotherapy (RIT). The only one I know does, but this type of therapy is so expensive right now (tens of thousands). RIT could blow up into something huge and Nuc Med could be the next Rad Onc except they could image the cancer with FDG. Well, that's my positive spin on it I guess.
More than likely the Rad Onc guys will take over RIT, and the Nuc guys will be stuck out once again.
On a side note, what specialty will be in charge of treating patients with nanotechnology. Maybe I'm the only one that thinks this will still happen.
More than likely the Rad Onc guys will take over RIT, and the Nuc guys will be stuck out once again.
On a side note, what specialty will be in charge of treating patients with nanotechnology. Maybe I'm the only one that thinks this will still happen.
Its been interesting to know a lot of people have been making presumptions and also giving half baked knowledge about nukes.
As seen over the years nukes never had high demand as the types of studies done are limited and are for specific purposes. Most of the studies done in small private hospitals are typically read by radiologists ... like bones and renal.
As its known the demand of a nuclear medicine physician is more in academic institutions. This does not mean that there ARE NO PRIVATE PRACTICING NUKES. There are jobs available in both the places and the money is comparable or more than specialities like medicine and peds. Some of the Nukes guys earn equal or more than the rads ... although these are a select few who are doing really well.
Nukes has recently gained popularity in PET/CT, SPECT/CT, for oncology.
New radiotracers are in development, and will reach the market soon for specific tumours like prostate cancer, carcinoid tumors( in oncology), for Alzhimeirs, Parkinsons(in neurology) and also for cardiac imaging. Knowledge base for the average rad will be limited in the comming years as this field expands and also because the training for rads resident in nukes will be less.
Presently Nukes residency is undergoign a change. Plans are to extend it to 3 years from 2 years. This to give nuks residents training in CT.
This will help interpretation of both SPECT and PET CTs.
Regarding RIT(radioimmunotherapy), I believe it will remain in the hands of nukes, as for one you need a license to dispense these radioactive drugs and these therapy are a little more complicated that your average chemo. Complicated dose calcuations are required for administration of RIT. Also newer RITs are on the horizon.
Heard about radiovirotherapy? ;-) the next big thing
Things may change who know? No one wanted to go into rads 10 years ago .... graduating residents had to go into fellowships as they could not find jobs; same with anesthesia. Things may change.
Overall the job market is tight, but if you are competitive enough there are opportunities out there if you are interested in Nukes.
BTW Some one wanted to know about Molecular Imaging
" Molecular imagingoften called the next frontier in diagnostic imaging because it combines cutting-edge imaging technology with the power of molecular biologyis poised to dominate all imaging modalities and influence the daily practice of medicine. This field relies on the complementary skills of scientists and professionals, including nuclear medicine physicians, radiologists, biologists, chemists, engineers and physicists, and its this interrelationship that allows for the continuation of rapid advances and integration across medical specialties."
"Molecular imaging will eventually lead to determining the pathophysiology of disease processes at the cellular or molecular level."
As seen over the years nukes never had high demand as the types of studies done are limited and are for specific purposes. Most of the studies done in small private hospitals are typically read by radiologists ... like bones and renal.
As its known the demand of a nuclear medicine physician is more in academic institutions. This does not mean that there ARE NO PRIVATE PRACTICING NUKES. There are jobs available in both the places and the money is comparable or more than specialities like medicine and peds. Some of the Nukes guys earn equal or more than the rads ... although these are a select few who are doing really well.
Nukes has recently gained popularity in PET/CT, SPECT/CT, for oncology.
New radiotracers are in development, and will reach the market soon for specific tumours like prostate cancer, carcinoid tumors( in oncology), for Alzhimeirs, Parkinsons(in neurology) and also for cardiac imaging. Knowledge base for the average rad will be limited in the comming years as this field expands and also because the training for rads resident in nukes will be less.
Presently Nukes residency is undergoign a change. Plans are to extend it to 3 years from 2 years. This to give nuks residents training in CT.
This will help interpretation of both SPECT and PET CTs.
Regarding RIT(radioimmunotherapy), I believe it will remain in the hands of nukes, as for one you need a license to dispense these radioactive drugs and these therapy are a little more complicated that your average chemo. Complicated dose calcuations are required for administration of RIT. Also newer RITs are on the horizon.
Heard about radiovirotherapy? ;-) the next big thing
Things may change who know? No one wanted to go into rads 10 years ago .... graduating residents had to go into fellowships as they could not find jobs; same with anesthesia. Things may change.
Overall the job market is tight, but if you are competitive enough there are opportunities out there if you are interested in Nukes.
BTW Some one wanted to know about Molecular Imaging
" Molecular imagingoften called the next frontier in diagnostic imaging because it combines cutting-edge imaging technology with the power of molecular biologyis poised to dominate all imaging modalities and influence the daily practice of medicine. This field relies on the complementary skills of scientists and professionals, including nuclear medicine physicians, radiologists, biologists, chemists, engineers and physicists, and its this interrelationship that allows for the continuation of rapid advances and integration across medical specialties."
"Molecular imaging will eventually lead to determining the pathophysiology of disease processes at the cellular or molecular level."
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I agree there are pretty cool things that may be in the future for nuclear medicine. I know a couple of pure nucs trained people and they have had a very difficult time finding a position in private practice. Sure, you will likely find a position. Odds are it will be in a location or situation that you did not desire. I think its definitely a calculated risk.
Radiology, by the way, was very competitive until the mid-90s when a incorrect prediction was made that there would be a oversupply. You talk of people doing fellowships during this time. Truth is that 70-75% of rads residents still do fellowships since this is necessary to work in a larger group in a larger city these days.
Radiology, by the way, was very competitive until the mid-90s when a incorrect prediction was made that there would be a oversupply. You talk of people doing fellowships during this time. Truth is that 70-75% of rads residents still do fellowships since this is necessary to work in a larger group in a larger city these days.
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This is the first I have heard about extending the training--is this rumored or from somewhere official?
This is an interesting perspective. I have heard both extremes about the future of nucs -- from it going away entirely and being absorbed by rads w/ nucs fellowship, to the occasional positive prognosis like this one. I would really consider pursuing nucs if I thought that: 1) I'd have a decent shot at a rads spot when I finish if I shine as a nucs resident, and 2) that if I couldn't get a rads spot, or better yet, that I liked nucs so well I didn't want to do rads too, there would be cool jobs to be had.
Any advantage to being medicine trained/boarded then doing rads or nucs?
This is an interesting perspective. I have heard both extremes about the future of nucs -- from it going away entirely and being absorbed by rads w/ nucs fellowship, to the occasional positive prognosis like this one. I would really consider pursuing nucs if I thought that: 1) I'd have a decent shot at a rads spot when I finish if I shine as a nucs resident, and 2) that if I couldn't get a rads spot, or better yet, that I liked nucs so well I didn't want to do rads too, there would be cool jobs to be had.
Any advantage to being medicine trained/boarded then doing rads or nucs?
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i think this should be left open to individuals. the nuc res vs nuc fellowship after rad. it sounds alot like what techs go thru. you can be a radtech and then get an additional yr of schooling in nuc med and be a RadTech/NucMedTech (3 yrs). or you can go two yrs straight but only be a NucMedTech(2yrs). if you are totally sure you want to do nuc med go for it. if you want to expand your opprtunities go for rad res and then for a nuc fellowship.
