Nuerosurgeons

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Moncisabel

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So i did a search on this and did not find very much on the topic. Also what i did find seems to have been dated back in 2004 so im gonna assume that some of the info may be a little outdated.
What i am looking for is by chance some tips, guidance, advice, or what have you on going into the nuerosurgery field and what some of you who are either already in the field itself or same as me working on it are facing when it comes to all theings neurosurgery. What are some things you wish you would have known or advice or things that you wish people would have told you. What is your best advice to being successful in the field? Topics such as these i am looking for answers and opinions good or bad!
Some quick background on me. Started out as an EMT then Paramedic then a RN then a PA and now hoping to indugle my actual goal of nuerosurgeon... is this far fetched? I am already a non traditional student and may be only a tad bit older than my fellow classmates, would this be a problem in a competitive field? What are your thoughts?


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You know what you are right you are right it seems that i seemed to have overlook a small typo that i managed to make twice in my post. I apologize for the mistake. Typing on small cell phone keyboards while breast feeding a newborn is not always the easiest to do, and my post did not have my 100% attention to recieve a thorough spell check. So thank you for calling me on it. I will be sure in the future that i remember to spell check before posting so as not to run into this issue again.

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Localnative said:
This Forum=The Lion's Den

Question is , OP... are you Daniel, or just one of King Darius' satraps?
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Great reference, although i myself am atheist i do admire the analogy, and in this instance would say that i am more of a daniel character than a follower.

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Moncisabel said:
You know what you are right you are right it seems that i seemed to have overlook a small typo that i managed to make twice in my post. I apologize for the mistake. Typing on small cell phone keyboards while breast feeding a newborn is not always the easiest to do, and my post did not have my 100% attention to recieve a thorough spell check. So thank you for calling me on it. I will be sure in the future that i remember to spell check before posting so as not to run into this issue again. <br /><br />Sent from my SM-G925V using SDN mobile

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Three times if you include the title! Welcome to SDN
 
jw3600 said:
EMT -> RN -> PA -> physician (NSG)?
Who is making your life choices?
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You know what i am so glad you asked. I would say that i am making my life choices. However as pink floyd so eloquently put it; "there is someone in my head and its not me" and then a great NEUROSCIENTIST then quotes the same song in a great book incognito discussing the conciousness and subconciousness and purposes the idea that perhaps we are not in control over our decisions like we think we are. So you know what i cannot be 100% sure who is making my choices for me. However i cannot say that i am unhappy with them. By age 24 i completed 4 different degrees as well as have been to at least 12 different countries to provide medical relief after disasters. All the while managing to be proud supportive military wife as well as have a son and be a loving mother, and continue schooling and work.
So whomever seems to be incharge of my life choices seems to be doing a good job.

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Moncisabel said:
You know what i am so glad you asked. I would say that i am making my life choices. However as pink floyd so eloquently put it; "there is someone in my head and its not me" and then a great NEUROSCIENTIST then quotes the same song in a great book incognito discussing the conciousness and subconciousness and purposes the idea that perhaps we are not in control over our decisions like we think we are. So you know what i cannot be 100% sure who is making my choices for me. However i cannot say that i am unhappy with them. By age 24 i completed 4 different degrees as well as have been to at least 12 different countries to provide medical relief after disasters. All the while managing to be proud supportive military wife as well as have a son and be a loving mother, and continue schooling and work.
So whomever seems to be incharge of my life choices seems to be doing a good job.

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Wasn't the response I was expecting. Have you looked into becoming a neurosurgery PA? Seems like a cool gig. If you try and become a physician that will be your third degree in a parallel, not sequential, medical field. While admirable, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
1. You will need pre-reqs.
2. You will need to take the MCAT
3. You need your ug gpa and sgpa to be >~3.5
4. You will need an mcat >~510( state dependent, i am unsure if military spouses get instate status at all schools)
5. You will need a Step score >~240
6.You will be spending 60-80 hours per week studying or doing rotations away from your family over 4 years.
7. You will need to do research and publish to become an attractive candidate
8. You will spend 80 hours per week for 7 years working in a residency.
9. You will not be able to work while in school and in residency, and your income in residency will be roughly half of what a PA makes.
10. If you have your pre-reqs already completed it will be a minimum of 12 years from the decision today.

Is it possible? yes? Is it worth it to you to take that time away from your family? only you can answer that.
Even after all things said and done, there is no guarantee that you will match into NSG. It is a long and arduous road ahead.
 
Being "slightly non-traditional" won't be a major issue, assuming you can keep up with the work. It's a competitive field, so you will need to do well in med school, on your board exams (particularly Step 1), and especially on your surgical and neurosurgical clinical rotations. Research won't hurt, and a good relationship with your school's neurosurgery department is also key.

Regarding the field itself, an important thing to realize is that a huge part of being a neurosurgeon (especially in private practice) is doing back surgery (discectomies, laminectomies, foraminotomies, and fusions), with occasional craniotomies thrown in here and there. You may understand this, but my experience is that many early pre-meds and med students think neurosurgery is primarily about "delving into the mysteries of the human mind" or something way more glamorous than dealing with middle-aged and elderly folks with chronic back pain and radicular pain who are on chronic pain meds with a pain contract.
 
jw3600 said:
Wasn't the response I was expecting. Have you looked into becoming a neurosurgery PA? Seems like a cool gig. If you try and become a physician that will be your third degree in a parallel, not sequential, medical field. While admirable, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Out of curiosity, what is it about your current position as a physician assistant that you don't find satisfying--compelling you to want to become a physician, and possibly a neurosurgeon? Do you currently work as a PA with a neurosurgeon? Have you considered becoming an OR-based neurosurgery PA? Neurosurgery is a field in which surgical PAs typically have a lot of latitude and can spend a lot of time in the OR getting initial exposure and closing backs. Of course, you're not "the surgeon", there is a significant pay differential (albeit also a ton more debt you would be acquiring and a very long training program), and in most cases a bit more "scut work" involved as a PA. But do keep in mind that you're talking 9-11 years of training once you get into med school before you can even start practicing as a neurosurgeon. I don't know how old you are now, but make sure you'll at least have enough time to make the career transition worthwhile and financially viable.
 
BeddingfieldMD said:
Out of curiosity, what is it about your current position as a physician assistant that you don't find satisfying--compelling you to want to become a physician, and possibly a neurosurgeon? Do you currently work as a PA with a neurosurgeon? Have you considered becoming an OR-based neurosurgery PA? Neurosurgery is a field in which surgical PAs typically have a lot of latitude and can spend a lot of time in the OR getting initial exposure and closing backs. Of course, you're not "the surgeon", there is a significant pay differential (albeit also a ton more debt you would be acquiring and a very long training program), and in most cases a bit more "scut work" involved as a PA. But do keep in mind that you're talking 9-11 years of training once you get into med school before you can even start practicing as a neurosurgeon. I don't know how old you are now, but make sure you'll at least have enough time to make the career transition worthwhile and financially viable.
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I think you quoted me instead of OP.
 
BeddingfieldMD said:
Out of curiosity, what is it about your current position as a physician assistant that you don't find satisfying--compelling you to want to become a physician, and possibly a neurosurgeon? Do you currently work as a PA with a neurosurgeon? Have you considered becoming an OR-based neurosurgery PA? Neurosurgery is a field in which surgical PAs typically have a lot of latitude and can spend a lot of time in the OR getting initial exposure and closing backs. Of course, you're not "the surgeon", there is a significant pay differential (albeit also a ton more debt you would be acquiring and a very long training program), and in most cases a bit more "scut work" involved as a PA. But do keep in mind that you're talking 9-11 years of training once you get into med school before you can even start practicing as a neurosurgeon. I don't know how old you are now, but make sure you'll at least have enough time to make the career transition worthwhile and financially viable.
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Honestly i think mostly i just have always loved a challenge. And i have always considered myself to be a life long student so to speak... sort of why i got into the business of practicing medicine to begin with, i figured there would never be a day that i didnt learn something new in this profession. I also have just always loved the satisfaction of accomplishing another achievement, (another knotch in my belt if you will)
I have thought about those other options and they are great ones, i just also wanted to explore the idea of becoming the surgeon myself. Also because i like being in the lead. Just fits my personality best. And the pay wouldnt be too bad either ha! I do also realize that most of the surgeries are just gonna be those laminectomies and discetomies...ect... like you mentioned in the post before. However i have just always been intrigued by the body and the brain that it really wouldnt matter what i was doing in the medical field i would still love it all.
So that is why i sought out others opinions and suggestions as well as advice, to try to get a idea so that i can make a better informed decision. I figured if i got some input from some people who have either already completed and are now practicing surgeons or those that are still in the process of becoming one i would be able to get a better idea as to what would be instore for me if i chose that route.

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Moncisabel said:
So i did a search on this and did not find very much on the topic. Also what i did find seems to have been dated back in 2004 so im gonna assume that some of the info may be a little outdated.
What i am looking for is by chance some tips, guidance, advice, or what have you on going into the nuerosurgery field and what some of you who are either already in the field itself or same as me working on it are facing when it comes to all theings neurosurgery. What are some things you wish you would have known or advice or things that you wish people would have told you. What is your best advice to being successful in the field? Topics such as these i am looking for answers and opinions good or bad!
Some quick background on me. Started out as an EMT then Paramedic then a RN then a PA and now hoping to indugle my actual goal of nuerosurgeon... is this far fetched? I am already a non traditional student and may be only a tad bit older than my fellow classmates, would this be a problem in a competitive field? What are your thoughts?


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To clarify, you are not a medical student right now?

If this is the case ask yourself this:

Do I want to be a doctor or do I want to be a neurosurgeon?

If the answer is Doctor, then by all means work hard and go to medical school.
If the answer is Neurosurgeon, I highly recommend not going to medical school.

So many things can and will happen in medical school that may derail you from neurosurgery and if you never actually wanted to be a doctor you are screwed since you're now stuck in medical school with lots of debt and few fulfilling options. Everyone wants to be a Neurosurgeon, Dermatologist, Plastic Surgeon, etc. Very few people actually make it. Therefore only go to medical school if you are thrilled with the prospect of being a doctor in more than just one competitive field. You need to have a backup that you would also enjoy for medical school to be a realistic option.
 
ERDOC555 said:
To clarify, you are not a medical student right now?

If this is the case ask yourself this:

Do I want to be a doctor or do I want to be a neurosurgeon?

If the answer is Doctor, then by all means work hard and go to medical school.
If the answer is Neurosurgeon, I highly recommend not going to medical school.

So many things can and will happen in medical school that may derail you from neurosurgery and if you never actually wanted to be a doctor you are screwed since you're now stuck in medical school with lots of debt and few fulfilling options. Everyone wants to be a Neurosurgeon, Dermatologist, Plastic Surgeon, etc. Very few people actually make it. Therefore only go to medical school if you are thrilled with the prospect of being a doctor in more than just one competitive field. You need to have a backup that you would also enjoy for medical school to be a realistic option.
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This is very good advice. If you would rather do a differs career altogether than primary care, I wouldn't recommend medical school in the first place. You need to be able to be okay with the backups if neurosurgery other other competitive specialties don't work out.
 
Moncisabel said:
So i did a search on this and did not find very much on the topic. Also what i did find seems to have been dated back in 2004 so im gonna assume that some of the info may be a little outdated.
What i am looking for is by chance some tips, guidance, advice, or what have you on going into the nuerosurgery field and what some of you who are either already in the field itself or same as me working on it are facing when it comes to all theings neurosurgery. What are some things you wish you would have known or advice or things that you wish people would have told you. What is your best advice to being successful in the field? Topics such as these i am looking for answers and opinions good or bad!
Some quick background on me. Started out as an EMT then Paramedic then a RN then a PA and now hoping to indugle my actual goal of nuerosurgeon... is this far fetched? I am already a non traditional student and may be only a tad bit older than my fellow classmates, would this be a problem in a competitive field? What are your thoughts?


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Before you get to attached to the idea of becoming any type of surgeon, you should scrub for a day and see if you can actually stand in one place for up to 6 or 8 or 10 hours.

There are many painful aspects of becoming a surgeon.
 
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The above advice is spot on. There are tens of thousands of ppl in the match every year. Only 200 of these spots are neurosurgery spots. There is no guarantee you will have what it takes to secure one of these for post graduate training. If you do join med school entertain the fact that you may end up in a field you don't desire the most. Also, get experience...a lot more experience. It's hard to truly understand the lifestyle without living it. I know you are saying you enjoy a challenge above but trust me, you haven't encountered a challenge on this level of this specific kind. Good luck whatever your decision is.
 
OP, you have to be at least 30 years old right? And you have a newborn? Let's say you got into medical school next year (31) and graduated in 4 years (35). Neurosurgery plus fellowship is 8 years (43). So, you'd start practicing as a neurosurgeon at 43 (when most admit skills decline around 50 and retirement is around 55-60) and you'd put aside your family to do so? And you'd do all of this when you could just be a neurosurgery PA right now?

And this is all assuming that you are somehow an extremely brilliant and hard working person that can publish 5+ papers, be AOA/top of your class, and score > 250 on your USMLE to even have a chance to maybe match neurosurgery at all.

I say go be a neurosurgery PA, take care of your kids, have more of them. Live happy. It's not worth it, trust me.
 
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