Nurse filed an "Incident Report" against me

[DrDude]

Today I was checking labs at a computer like I do everday. And just like everday I was doing so while having my morning cup of coffee. Then out of left field comes this nurse and the ensuing conversation went roughly something like this:

Nurse: "That can't be here."
Me: "What?"
Nurse: "Either throw your coffee out or take it somewhere else."
Me: "I drink this here every morning."
Nurse: "Well this is the first time I've seen it and it's against policy."
Me: "I never heard of that policy and I've seen lots of other people drink and eat stuff around here."
Nurse: "I don't care, it can't be here."
Me: "Well I'm almost done with it anyway." *Goes back to checking labs*
Nurse: "Excuse me, did you hear what I just said?!"
Me: "Yes, and I said I'm almost done with it."

The nurse then abrubtly got up and disappeared for a few minutes. Then she came back and stood in front of the counter-thingy hospitals have at the stations right in front of me. I kinda just ignored her and continued checking labs with my coffee in the other hand. I noticed she was writing frantically and at one point was craning her head to look at my name tag. After a few minutes she blurted out something "Well you just earned yourself an incident report, have fun explaining why you disregarded hospital policy." I continued to ignore her as she left in a huff with what I guess was the incident report. I later learned she is the nurse manager (or whatever they call the head nurse for a particular department).

How bad is this? I'm applying for residency this year and it couldn't have come at a worse time. Is this something MAJOR that will be seen as a red flag? If anybody has dealt with being written up in an incident report could you kindly give me an idea of what to expect now?? 🙁

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[Taurus]

Ouch.

Wrong nurse to piss off.

Keep us updated.

 

[Hurricane95]

Nurses can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Seriously, we were taught from the beginning to NEVER piss one off. They carry a lot more weight than you in the hospital (especially if they've been on staff for a long time or have a higher position like case worker or something) and can easily make your life a living hell if you do. Sorry dude, but that was probably the wrong thing to do. I know things like that can happen quickly especially if you're a bit tired or annoyed that morning...it sucks. Hopefully it won't affect you too badly.

I personally wouldn't know what to do without their help on the trauma service. It's my first rotation and they've bailed my ***** out on so many occasions already in the span of 7 weeks. I try to keep them all on my good side (especially the couple of them who are my age and pretty hot 😉)

 

[Law2Doc]

The sad thing is if you showed up with a box of coffee and some donuts to the nurses station to share, they would have loved you and let you drink coffee there for the year. Look at this as a lesson in hospital politics.

BTW, you didn't get written up for drinking coffee there so much as you got written up for talking back to the nurse. She is king of a very small kingdom, but you'd better show some respect when in that kingdom.

 

[Taurus]

Moral of the story is don't start throwing your weight around until you've become an attending.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

It's going to depend on how incident reports are handled at that institution, specifically, incident reports for medical students.

At the two extremes, nothing might happen. A buddy of mind got cited for a minor infraction at a hospital (parked in a lot that was designated for patients only.) He had a ticket/citation written up saying all kinds of nasty stuff about how it's going on his record and he will have to a mandatory meeting with his manager to discuss this problem and how there'd be large reprecussions if he didn't.

He did nothing about it...and nothing happened. It seemed to pretty much only target hospital employees and all the stuff they threatened had no weight against med students since we're not employed and don't have managers, and they don't have direct access to our "permanent records."

That said, hospital policy might be that they forward all of these type things on to your Dean of Students and you very well might be facing a professionalism meeting and all that annoying stuff in the future.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Slash that nosy nurse's tires. That'll teach her to be a nazi.

 

[Law2Doc]

had no weight against med students since we're not employed and don't have managers, and they don't have direct access to our "permanent records."

More importantly you have no direct access to employee handbooks where such rules are kept, so you could make a pretty compelling argument that you didn't know there was such a rule.

The professionalism argument is a concerning one for this dude though. Fighting with a nurse is unprofessional, even if coffee drinking isn't. So the OP may have stepped in it by not giving this nurse a wide berth rather than some lip.

 

[DrDude]

Hey I know what you guys are saying. My main concern now is of future reprecussions, ones that might go beyond med school. Cuz last year I was helping out my gf fill with licensing applications and there were questions like "Have any negative reports been filed against you?" and if you answered yes then you had to give a full description on a separate paper and send a copy of the report with the application. Luckily my gf had a clean trip thru med school/residency and could answer "no" to all those types of questions. But now am I screwed in that I must answer "yes" to those types of questions cuz of this? I assume this would constitute a "negative report"? Man all this potentially future nonesense over cup of joe.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Oh, and this B.S. about "Floor/nursing policies" NEVER GOES AWAY. Some days you'll just be randomly told something you've been doing or some order you've been writing for the last few days/weeks/months/years is against some super double secret nursing policy and you have to stop it NOW.

 

[dilated]

Nurses can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Seriously, we were taught from the beginning to NEVER piss one off.

Whatever. The nurse asskissing a lot of med students advocate is painful to watch. I treat the nurses the same way I treat everyone from janitors to random staff members in the hallway: I am completely friendly if they are friendly to me, if I can help them with whatever's going on with my patient I will, and I am in no way their subordinate or in their chain of command. Sucking up to rude people of any flavor just makes them absolutely sure they can keep being rude to you with impunity.

As long as you don't have a history of problems you'll be perfectly fine. What exactly do you think the "incident report" says? "Medical student drank coffee at work station"? I had a similar incident one time and the course director and I talked after the shelf to laugh at how stupid it was. On the extremely offhand chance your school cares, simply play dumb and say nobody told you and she failed to identify herself as a manager and they'll have nothing on you. You'll be fine.

 

[Mistress S]

Whoa, that sucks. I really feel for you. Most of the nurses I've encountered have been either friendly or at least left me alone. I always try to be really nice to them because a.) I have close family members who are or have been nurses, b.) they can sometimes be very helpful to you as a confused medical student, and c.) because some of them have an innate hatred of medical students/residents, and I somehow hope thay by being extra nice I'll crack through their stony exterior and get them to like me. This has rarely worked, and I've had to bite my tongue on more than one occasion when dealing with one of the latter types.

So yeah, let this serve as a warning to those entering their clinical years to be nice to nurses and other hospital staff, because they can help you out a lot and because there's nothing like petty authority to bring out the absolute worst in people. But it really doesn't sound like you did anything seriously wrong in this case, other than show a little attitude. The nurse confronted you about a policy you have never heard of or seen observed, and you responded by showing an intention to comply (by finishing your coffee), although not in the time frame she desired. At least at my institution, I believe incident reports are handled by the human resources department, who should contact you to get your version of events. I wouldn't wait, though- I would find out who it goes to and call them to verify that they actually received the report and to tell them your side of the story. Don't lose your cool or badmouth the nurse involved, just explain that you were confused about the policy (as someone pointed out, as students we are not privy to employee manuals or trainings about these types of policies), and that you intended to comply by finishing and disposing of your coffee and were surprised when the nurse responded the way she did.

This seems like it will be a pretty minor infraction if it even goes on your record (which you should fight), but the next step is to find out (either from HR, dean's office, or student ombudsman if you have one) if this type of report in any way goes into your school records. If it does, then the priority should be doing everything in your power to keep it from going there. The dean's office should also be able to tell you if this has to be reported in some way that could affect residency applications. Hopefully this won't go to the level of professionalism reviews, if things went down the way you say then that seems pretty extreme. In any case, your school should be advocating for you; they want you to get a good residency placement, too, so blowing up something so minor isn't really in their best interests, either. Basically, I would deal with this proactively by contacting first your HR department or wherever the report goes, and by talking to someone in the dean's office. And steer clear of this nurse as much as possible. Good luck, hopefully the whole thing will blow over.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

mind your p's and q's but keep your camera phone handy. You never know when you'll need to snap a pic of someone eating or drinking at the nurse's station to help save your butt.

 

[Blesbok]

The sad thing is if you showed up with a box of coffee and some donuts to the nurses station to share, they would have loved you and let you drink coffee there for the year. Look at this as a lesson in hospital politics.

BTW, you didn't get written up for drinking coffee there so much as you got written up for talking back to the nurse. She is king of a very small kingdom, but you'd better show some respect when in that kingdom.

:werd: You played it all wrong. Should have gone with "If I promise to bring you a cup tomorrow too, could I finish this one, pretty please. *Insert big cheesy smile*"

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

Ugh, sorry to hear about that. I had a discussion with some residents about this. Medical students, residents or fellows have lots of other things to worry about and so have very little time to ever really worry about minute rules. Other employees (not necessarily nurses) have more time and less responsibility and they are the ones that can really F--- you over. It's ridiculous how your future can potentially be hindered because one disgruntled person has the time to write an IR, but that's part of the whole "game" isn't it? Sometimes you just have to swallow your pride and move on with the situation.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

OP, I would have handled this situation exactly the way you did. Actually, I might have been even meaner about it. I think it's absolutely RIDICULOUS the attitudes that some nurses have these days. Personally, I don't act any friendlier than they do with me unless they gain my respect. It's worked very well for me so far and they respect me a lot more than the students who kiss their ass non-stop.

Dude, she had no right walking up to you and talking to you in that tone. All she had to say in a NICE WAY was "excuse me, I'm not sure if you're aware but beverages are no longer allowed in the nurses station. I don't like the rule either but it's something we all must follow so if you don't mind putting your cup somewhere else while you're using the computer I'd really appreciate it."

If I were you I'd file a "incident report" on her ass with your clerkship director for her rude and UNPROFESSIONAL behavior. G'luck man. Keep us updated.

 

[FutureInternist]

If you were at a nursing station in an ICU then I believe she is right. Having food/drinks in a patient care area is a violation of JCAHO guidelines & carries a fine for the employee & the hospital.

Keep in mind that she may be right & just decided to take out her "I haven't got laid in a while" frustration on you.

Having said that, I would have done the same thing. 😀

 

[BSN2DOC]

Nurses can be biatches... but then again, I have ran into just as many residents and attendings who have been just as bad.

But the nurse could have asked you nicely not to drink coffee at the nursing station (BTW, our hospital is VERY VERY VERY strict about drinking/eating on the floor -- huge infection control risk and as far as I know it is against JACHO policy).

I would write up an incident report on her though for unprofessional conduct.

 

[cfdavid]

Moral of the story is don't start throwing your weight around until you've become an attending.

Dude this is so true. Hospital politics can be very interesting. The bottom line is to suck it up now, and during residency. Regardless of who's right or who's wrong. But, if you think that there's some justice that'll come down to save you when you've been slighted, you'll be waiting a long time and your life can be made very miserable in the meantime.

Until you're an attending and bring revenue into the system, you hold almost no power. The sooner we all accept this the better.

OP, dude I don't think this is gonna hurt you. You can explain this away or even consider a counter incident report for documentation purposes (she talked to you in a threatening and intimitating tone... (if true) etc.). But, just learn from this one. Next time take the path of least resistance (not of least pain, I understand).

And like others have said, nurses are like a bunch of little Napoleans. But, if you just kiss their a.s, they can help you out a LOT. I learned this first hand.
Hell, even scrub techs. That's THEIR little castle, the OR. But, if you get on their good side, you'll get a hell of a lot less BS from them in terms of them getting on you about the slightest of sterile violations that everyone else and their brother ignores.

The best way to get on the side of scrub techs and circulating nurses is simply to introduce yourself to them, tell them you're a med student, and say "nice to meet you". Then REMEMBER their name. Smile at them when you see them in the hall. Whatever, but it works wonders.

 

[caroladybelle]

If you were at a nursing station in an ICU then I believe she is right. Having food/drinks in a patient care area is a violation of JCAHO guidelines & carries a fine for the employee & the hospital.

This is correct, even in M/S It also earns the staff a big lecture from IS, who get tired of replacing keyboards and various computer parts, after stuff gets spilled on them.

Even the attendings know that liquids (for staff) are not permitted in some pt care areas/exam areas, around medication servers/computer equipment. (Yes, the rule is often broken, but it is still policy virtually everywhere that I have worked).

I keep my soda back in the staff breakroom, and run back and forth PRN. It is a pain, but it beats getting hassled over it.

I'm surprised at the number of people that are unaware of this.

As to it affecting one's future as an MD...I doubt that it will matter one bit. But do be aware that it is a rule in many places, having it's basis in OSHA rules and Joint Commission. Somewhere, someone probably dumped some thalidomide in a coffee cup, or wafted some chemo fumes over a glass of tea, and we all have to pay now with inconvenience.

 

[8744]

Today I was checking labs at a computer like I do everday. And just like everday I was doing so while having my morning cup of coffee. Then out of left field comes this nurse and the ensuing conversation went roughly something like this:

Nurse: "That can't be here."
Me: "What?"
Nurse: "Either throw your coffee out or take it somewhere else."
Me: "I drink this here every morning."
Nurse: "Well this is the first time I've seen it and it's against policy."
Me: "I never heard of that policy and I've seen lots of other people drink and eat stuff around here."
Nurse: "I don't care, it can't be here."
Me: "Well I'm almost done with it anyway." *Goes back to checking labs*
Nurse: "Excuse me, did you hear what I just said?!"
Me: "Yes, and I said I'm almost done with it."

The nurse then abrubtly got up and disappeared for a few minutes. Then she came back and stood in front of the counter-thingy hospitals have at the stations right in front of me. I kinda just ignored her and continued checking labs with my coffee in the other hand. I noticed she was writing frantically and at one point was craning her head to look at my name tag. After a few minutes she blurted out something "Well you just earned yourself an incident report, have fun explaining why you disregarded hospital policy." I continued to ignore her as she left in a huff with what I guess was the incident report. I later learned she is the nurse manager (or whatever they call the head nurse for a particular department).

How bad is this? I'm applying for residency this year and it couldn't have come at a worse time. Is this something MAJOR that will be seen as a red flag? If anybody has dealt with being written up in an incident report could you kindly give me an idea of what to expect now?? 🙁

I assure you that if you are a resident, your hospital will not fire you for drinking coffee and if you are a medical student you will not be expelled for the same. If you are a resident, the nurse has no authority over you, cannot give you orders. If you are a medical student she has even less authority over you.

The consequences of this? Nothing. Just a pissed off nurse. Big ****ing deal. Don't worry about it. If you get called to the carpet just say, "Yeah, I drank some coffee."

Policy is used to fire people who they want to get rid of. As a resident, you are too valuable to fire for something stupid. They will not lose their cut of the approximately $130,000 per year Medicare pays them for your ass nor will they put a big, fat hole in their call roster for minor infractions of silly rules. It would take something like assault or harassment to do it. Ditto as a medical student. They will not cut your career short and lose your tuition and expensive spot in their roster because a nurse is pissed at you.

You will not be denied a medical license in your state either because you drank coffee, nor will prospective employers care. The whole thing is silly, nobody really cares, and your "permanent record" is safe.

 

[leopanther]

This is just ridiculous

Why don't doctors/med students stand up for each other? Why do med schools protect everyone but their own students?

I realize the importance of nurses but let's be real. Their training doesn't rival ours in the amount of work, money, and sacrifice it entails. Why do they have the power to impact our career?

I can understand if a nurse reports a student for blatant disrespect towards staff or doing something potentially dangerous to the patient but writing up someone for a trivial rule that is ignored by everyone else?
She would not ask an attending to throw out the coffee. How's this different?

I cannot imagine this happening in corporate environment. Seriously, not in any other career do people have to worry about drinking coffee in the wrong place.

It's so painfully obvious that this is just a power trip. If someone in your school's administration does anything more than laugh at this report, they probably don't have the judgement for their position.

 

[8744]

If you were at a nursing station in an ICU then I believe she is right. Having food/drinks in a patient care area is a violation of JCAHO guidelines & carries a fine for the employee & the hospital.

Keep in mind that she may be right & just decided to take out her "I haven't got laid in a while" frustration on you.

Having said that, I would have done the same thing. 😀

Hey, then how come patients are allowed to eat in patient care areas?

 

[njbmd]

Today I was checking labs at a computer like I do everday. And just like everday I was doing so while having my morning cup of coffee. Then out of left field comes this nurse and the ensuing conversation went roughly something like this:

Nurse: "That can't be here."
Me: "What?"
Nurse: "Either throw your coffee out or take it somewhere else."
Me: "I drink this here every morning."
Nurse: "Well this is the first time I've seen it and it's against policy."
Me: "I never heard of that policy and I've seen lots of other people drink and eat stuff around here."
Nurse: "I don't care, it can't be here."
Me: "Well I'm almost done with it anyway." *Goes back to checking labs*
Nurse: "Excuse me, did you hear what I just said?!"
Me: "Yes, and I said I'm almost done with it."

The nurse then abrubtly got up and disappeared for a few minutes. Then she came back and stood in front of the counter-thingy hospitals have at the stations right in front of me. I kinda just ignored her and continued checking labs with my coffee in the other hand. I noticed she was writing frantically and at one point was craning her head to look at my name tag. After a few minutes she blurted out something "Well you just earned yourself an incident report, have fun explaining why you disregarded hospital policy." I continued to ignore her as she left in a huff with what I guess was the incident report. I later learned she is the nurse manager (or whatever they call the head nurse for a particular department).

How bad is this? I'm applying for residency this year and it couldn't have come at a worse time. Is this something MAJOR that will be seen as a red flag? If anybody has dealt with being written up in an incident report could you kindly give me an idea of what to expect now?? 🙁

The statement in bold is where YOU went wrong. You should have said, "Oh, I didn't know" and tossed your coffee followed by a "thanks for letting me know". End of discussion. Since this didn't happen, you still don't have much to worry about. Incident reports are for variances in patient care that puts patients (or staff) in danger. That paper likely was tossed into the trash or handed to her superior who laughed in her face.

In the future, keep you coffee out of the nurses station and leave well enough alone. Your future in medicine is not going to be harmed by this incident other than to make you wary of nurses. Chill out and do excellent patient care. This is behind you and makes no difference in the long term scheme of things. All sorts of dogs have to mark their territory and you got urinated on. End of story.

 

[78222]

Nurses on a power trip really get under my skin and I'm not sure how we've let a situation arise where doctors are kissing the ass of their subordinates. In the corporate world you don't see execs kissing the ass their secretaries. You don't see engineers kissing the asses of technicians. Of course physicians shouldn't treat them like crap, but they shouldn't run around afraid of pissing off the nursing staff.

Here's a rude ass nurse story I couldn't believe. I was with my resident seeing a patient in the ED. We were halfway through our exam when a nurse storms in and says "Exams over, this patient is going to the floor". The doctor says, "we are doing an exam, give us 10 minutes". The nurse, rudely responds "transport has already been called, she has to go up now". Doctor states, "I am supposed to be in clinic, wait until I am finished please". She angrily states "you have 2 minutes" and leaves. A few minutes later, she comes back in and starts disconnecting all the monitors on the pt WHILE WE ARE DOING A FRICKIN EXAM AND WHEELS THE PT OUT! I couldn't believe it. It was so rude.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Whoa, that sucks. I really feel for you. Most of the nurses I've encountered have been either friendly or at least left me alone. I always try to be really nice to them because a.) I have close family members who are or have been nurses, b.) they can sometimes be very helpful to you as a confused medical student, and c.) because some of them have an innate hatred of medical students/residents, and I somehow hope thay by being extra nice I'll crack through their stony exterior and get them to like me. This has rarely worked, and I've had to bite my tongue on more than one occasion when dealing with one of the latter types.

So yeah, let this serve as a warning to those entering their clinical years to be nice to nurses and other hospital staff, because they can help you out a lot and because there's nothing like petty authority to bring out the absolute worst in people. But it really doesn't sound like you did anything seriously wrong in this case, other than show a little attitude. The nurse confronted you about a policy you have never heard of or seen observed, and you responded by showing an intention to comply (by finishing your coffee), although not in the time frame she desired. At least at my institution, I believe incident reports are handled by the human resources department, who should contact you to get your version of events. I wouldn't wait, though- I would find out who it goes to and call them to verify that they actually received the report and to tell them your side of the story. Don't lose your cool or badmouth the nurse involved, just explain that you were confused about the policy (as someone pointed out, as students we are not privy to employee manuals or trainings about these types of policies), and that you intended to comply by finishing and disposing of your coffee and were surprised when the nurse responded the way she did.

This seems like it will be a pretty minor infraction if it even goes on your record (which you should fight), but the next step is to find out (either from HR, dean's office, or student ombudsman if you have one) if this type of report in any way goes into your school records. If it does, then the priority should be doing everything in your power to keep it from going there. The dean's office should also be able to tell you if this has to be reported in some way that could affect residency applications. Hopefully this won't go to the level of professionalism reviews, if things went down the way you say then that seems pretty extreme. In any case, your school should be advocating for you; they want you to get a good residency placement, too, so blowing up something so minor isn't really in their best interests, either. Basically, I would deal with this proactively by contacting first your HR department or wherever the report goes, and by talking to someone in the dean's office. And steer clear of this nurse as much as possible. Good luck, hopefully the whole thing will blow over.

This is great advice, esp the bolded part. I would take immediate action to play up the "golly I didn't know the rule but she was so mean" card. The the angle that you see people drinking there all the time and she just exploded on you.

I totally agree that we as a professional should be much less tolerant of abuse from nurses. I also don't buy into this whole concept of taking whatever they throw at you. Be professional but I think the OP handled the situation very well, a reasonable response to a rude action.

 

[Mr hawkings]

This is great advice, esp the bolded part. I would take immediate action to play up the "golly I didn't know the rule but she was so mean" card. The the angle that you see people drinking there all the time and she just exploded on you.

I totally agree that we as a professional should be much less tolerant of abuse from nurses. I also don't buy into this whole concept of taking whatever they throw at you. Be professional but I think the OP handled the situation very well, a reasonable response to a rude action.

I agree.
The fact that you WERE commiting an infraction does not mean she needs to be rude. This is why a lot of animosity develops between residents/attending and nurses. They remember bad experiences they had with nurses back when they were students and they take it out on every nurse they work with once they have some power. these nurses then take out their frustration on the present crop of students and interns. The cycle continues.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

If this weren't a sub-I (which is the implication) you could be real passive-aggressive about the whole thing and leave a $5 Starbucks gift card on her desk. Professional my a**, this nurse deserves to be urinated on. There's no way she comes up to bigshot Cards attending and does this, just another coward on a power trip. I think the OP handled it quite well.

 

[dln72183]

I would imagine there are incedent reports that matter and ones like this that don't. What will make a difference is, if you get asked about it, how you describe the situation and what that says about you. I would imagine residency programs are looking for physicians who can add something to their institution. If you bring a bad attitude that hinders your ability to get along with the staff, they may not like that. If you let them know it was a little misunderstanding that got blown way out of porportion, but you were able to laugh it off and harbor no hard feelings towards the nursing staff, that will play in your favor.

can't we all just drink our coffee and get along?

 

[Bravofriendly]

Hey, then how come patients are allowed to eat in patient care areas?

Excellent point, Sir!

 

[Depakote]

the patients are in a hospital, if they pick up a lil bug with their meal they're already in the right place.

 

[Blesbok]

This is correct, even in M/S It also earns the staff a big lecture from IS, who get tired of replacing keyboards and various computer parts, after stuff gets spilled on them.

Even the attendings know that liquids (for staff) are not permitted in some pt care areas/exam areas, around medication servers/computer equipment. (Yes, the rule is often broken, but it is still policy virtually everywhere that I have worked).

I keep my soda back in the staff breakroom, and run back and forth PRN. It is a pain, but it beats getting hassled over it.

I'm surprised at the number of people that are unaware of this.

As to it affecting one's future as an MD...I doubt that it will matter one bit. But do be aware that it is a rule in many places, having it's basis in OSHA rules and Joint Commission. Somewhere, someone probably dumped some thalidomide in a coffee cup, or wafted some chemo fumes over a glass of tea, and we all have to pay now with inconvenience.

You say this like you have worked in every hospital in the nation. Every hospital has different policies. Having a drink in a physician work area is not a "huge infection risk" like someone else mentioned. It may be hospital policy at your hospital, but it has never been policy anywhere I have ever worked.

Keep in mind, I am only talking about a physician work area, not setting your coffee on teh narcotics dispenser.

 

[GreenShirt]

The statement in bold is where YOU went wrong. You should have said, "Oh, I didn't know" and tossed your coffee followed by a "thanks for letting me know". End of discussion. Since this didn't happen, you still don't have much to worry about. Incident reports are for variances in patient care that puts patients (or staff) in danger. That paper likely was tossed into the trash or handed to her superior who laughed in her face.

In the future, keep you coffee out of the nurses station and leave well enough alone. Your future in medicine is not going to be harmed by this incident other than to make you wary of nurses. Chill out and do excellent patient care. This is behind you and makes no difference in the long term scheme of things. All sorts of dogs have to mark their territory and you got urinated on. End of story.

I have to agree here. The OP was sort of being a d*** to the nurse and she responded in kind. If hospital policy doesn't allow food and drink in the nurses station and someone calls you on it then they have a right to. He should have thrown it away rather than just keep drinking. Instead the student acted like he owned the place and had a right to do whatever he pleased. That's the main reason nursing staff gets irritated with med students. They come in acting like they're at the top of the food chain when they know less about health care than the rest of the people there. Moral of the story: don't act like a know it all and you won't have to deal with these kinds of problems.

 

[toothless rufus]

Sounds like a big nothing. At least you didn't dump the coffee on her head.

 

[Mr hawkings]

If this weren't a sub-I (which is the implication) you could be real passive-aggressive about the whole thing and leave a $5 Starbucks gift card on her desk. Professional my a**, this nurse deserves to be urinated on. There's no way she comes up to bigshot Cards attending and does this, just another coward on a power trip. I think the OP handled it quite well.

Thats a bit harsh

 

[michaelrack]

Nurses on a power trip really get under my skin and I'm not sure how we've let a situation arise where doctors are kissing the ass of their subordinates. In the corporate world you don't see execs kissing the ass their secretaries.

.

Executives don't kiss their secretaries' asses, but they do kiss the asses of the secretaries of the executives above them.

 

[dilatate]

Here is the truth and the best advice.
1. Don't listen to all this "nurses are mean and they are just excercising what little power they have." Why? Because while it may be true, it has no bearing on this situation.
2. You made a mistake by (1) bringing coffee to a patient care area, (2) ignoring someone with infinitely more knowledge than you about these matters, and (3) being rude about it. I have seen attendings get reprimanded for this very same situation, so if you think there will be no consequences you are mistaken (yes, even a Cards attending at the Cleveland Clinic)
3. Don't just ignore it and hope nothing happens. Be proactive. Inform someone (clerkship director or whomever) and apologize vehemently.
4. Pray.

This is a big deal and treat it as such. Sorry to be blunt and negative, but hoping it will be OK is not the best strategy here.

 

[VCU07]

If this weren't a sub-I (which is the implication) you could be real passive-aggressive about the whole thing and leave a $5 Starbucks gift card on her desk. Professional my a**, this nurse deserves to be urinated on. There's no way she comes up to bigshot Cards attending and does this, just another coward on a power trip. I think the OP handled it quite well.

The golden shower, nice!

 

[87138]

the patients are in a hospital, if they pick up a lil bug with their meal they're already in the right place.

I'm just a lowly M1, but it is my understanding that medical students and residents (and even attendings) are in a hospital as well.

 

[JeffLebowski]

You know I gotta say, I'm a little annoyed how vehemently everyone and their mother reminds us to "be nice to the nurses". I get it. I got it the first time. In fact, as a nice person, I understood it before the first time I was told. Several dozen times later (not an exaggeration) in large group settings, now I'm just getting annoyed. I certainly hope there's an equivalent chorus of propaganda being reinforced in the nursing camp, but I'm not confident of that.

Honestly, the whole "nurses can be your best friend or your worst enemy" is silly. That's called "splitting", and it's a pathological ego defense mechanism common in borderline personality disorders, last time I checked. I love great nurses just as much as the next guy, but it's ridiculous to keep going around under the current dynamic where if a med student or resident makes one false step or needs to confront a nurse all of a sudden we have an enemy in the work setting. While this doesn't always happen and I realize the "be nice to the nurses" advice is just to grease the wheels, keep your head down, and keep the peace, I resent the implication that I need to be told repeatedly and should fear retribution if I somehow get on the bad side of a nurse.

 

[PHealthMan]

it is a Joint Commission violation to have beverages on rounds or in certain areas of the hospital.

based on the way you write i bet you were arrogant to her. treat her like the professional she is and apologize and correct your actions and you will find that this complaint will quickly die.

best advice i have heard in a while .... be nice to those you meet on your way up, because you could see them again on your way down.

 

[soeagerun2or]

Honestly, **** nurses and nursing in general. We could hire a high school drop out to do what they do.

To the OP, A friend of mine had a negative comment from nursing staff in his MSPE, so if you can nick this one in the bud it might be worth the effort.

 

[tacoman2493]

A friend of mine had a negative comment from nursing staff in his MSPE, so if you can nick this one in the bud it might be worth the effort.

Thats ridiculous. Which med school and which dean was it that put this idiotic nonsense in the letter?

 

[Blesbok]

You know I gotta say, I'm a little annoyed how vehemently everyone and their mother reminds us to "be nice to the nurses". I get it. I got it the first time. In fact, as a nice person, I understood it before the first time I was told. Several dozen times later (not an exaggeration) in large group settings, now I'm just getting annoyed. I certainly hope there's an equivalent chorus of propaganda being reinforced in the nursing camp, but I'm not confident of that.

Honestly, the whole "nurses can be your best friend or your worst enemy" is silly. That's called "splitting", and it's a pathological ego defense mechanism common in borderline personality disorders, last time I checked. I love great nurses just as much as the next guy, but it's ridiculous to keep going around under the current dynamic where if a med student or resident makes one false step or needs to confront a nurse all of a sudden we have an enemy in the work setting. While this doesn't always happen and I realize the "be nice to the nurses" advice is just to grease the wheels, keep your head down, and keep the peace, I resent the implication that I need to be told repeatedly and should fear retribution if I somehow get on the bad side of a nurse.

Last time I checked, the saying wasn't "nurses can be your best friend or your worst enemy, but nothing in between". Therefore, you implication that it is splitting shows that you don't a) comprehend english or b) know what splitting is.

Being nice to those around you should be common courtesy. When nurses are doing all your dirty work, it is much easier to get them to do something more quickly or to help you out when they like you.

 

[NeurosurgeryGal]

I'm sorry this had to happen to you. If it were me, I would have told her flat on her face that "I am sorry, I was not aware that coffee is not allowed here and I will throw my cup away. I want to learn from you since you are experienced in the ways of this hospital. However I do not appreciate your unprofessional behavior and I do not expect this type of tone from you ever again in the future." Then if she could pick up her jaw from off the floor, and still file a report, let her and go immediately to your supervisor/resident/attending whatever, and document the incident. This coffee incident is high school crap, You don't want this to blow up in your face.

And don't think this is just nurses. From what my friends told me, JUST YOU WAIT until you get into residency and EVERYONE screams at you for 80 hours a week.

People have been treating me like dirt my whole life and I am tired of it.

 

[NeurosurgeryGal]

On that note, yes you were wrong...but she still didn't have to treat you the way she did.

You know what it really stems from?

I think she just personally doesn't like you (or resentful towards med students in general) this has nothing to do with coffee.

 

[xanthines]

True, but don't knock his underlying implication: Axis II disorders are endemic to medical personnel! Can't decide if this is or ...or something in between. 😀

-X

/Had a little too much coffee today!

Last time I checked, the saying wasn't "nurses can be your best friend or your worst enemy, but nothing in between". Therefore, you implication that it is splitting shows that you don't a) comprehend english or b) know what splitting is.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Posters, I just gotta add,

Pick your battles wisely.

Something like this may not affect your future career but it can make your current situation miserable, which could really really suck if it's at the beginning of a long rotation you don't want to be in anyway. Take it to your attending if it's that big of a problem and let them deal with it.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Last time I checked, the saying wasn't "nurses can be your best friend or your worst enemy, but nothing in between". Therefore, you implication that it is splitting shows that you don't a) comprehend english or b) know what splitting is.

Being nice to those around you should be common courtesy. When nurses are doing all your dirty work, it is much easier to get them to do something more quickly or to help you out when they like you.

Dude, I'm not sure I deserved these...I guess they were attacks?

The entire first paragraph I said it should go without saying, as a nice person, that you should be nice to your coworkers. I was a little annoyed at having been told common sense (and common courtesy) so many times from so many different people (not just me, everyone tells everyone else "be nice to the nurses").

And honestly, every time I've heard the saying it's been "nurses can be your best friend or your worst enemy". Of course there are many many in between, but the point and emphasis of that little saying is that they have the potential to intentionally make your life difficult if you make a misstep. I mean anyone can be your best friend or your worst enemy, what's the point in saying it about nurses if there isn't something inherently characteristic of that group? I understand that and dutifully treat them with respect and friendliness (see above). But as stated above, the reason to be respectful and professional to your coworkers is not out of fear of retribution or ambition for favors (as is implied with the "best friend/worst enemy" phrase) but because you're a nice, professional guy. I'm not sure whether it's a mischaracterization by those who pass along that phrase or whether it's an actual phenomenon, but a tenuous situation where they either love you or hate you is silly.

If you'd like to offer a definition of "splitting" that refutes my analogy (which was a joke), go right ahead.

 

[Blesbok]

Dude, I'm not sure I deserved these...I guess they were attacks?

The entire first paragraph I said it should go without saying, as a nice person, that you should be nice to your coworkers. I was a little annoyed at having been told common sense (and common courtesy) so many times from so many different people (not just me, everyone tells everyone else "be nice to the nurses").

And honestly, every time I've heard the saying it's been "nurses can be your best friend or your worst enemy". Of course there are many many in between, but the point and emphasis of that little saying is that they have the potential to intentionally make your life difficult if you make a misstep. I mean anyone can be your best friend or your worst enemy, what's the point in saying it about nurses if there isn't something inherently characteristic of that group? I understand that and dutifully treat them with respect and friendliness (see above). But as stated above, the reason to be respectful and professional to your coworkers is not out of fear of retribution or ambition for favors (as is implied with the "best friend/worst enemy" phrase) but because you're a nice, professional guy. I'm not sure whether it's a mischaracterization by those who pass along that phrase or whether it's an actual phenomenon, but a tenuous situation where they either love you or hate you is silly.

If you'd like to offer a definition of "splitting" that refutes my analogy (which was a joke), go right ahead.

Sorry, shouldn't have been rude. I blame it on switching back and forth from a forum that feeds on rudeness to SDN along with having a hectic day. I apologize.