Nurses are overstepping boundaries

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S6MD

S6MD

Aaahh!!! Real Monsters
10+ Year Member
WTF is this. Scary stuff if you ask me. "Traditional titles like physician and nurse will blur as we transcend disciplines and overlapping roles to provide evidence-based and satisfying care, albeit with different perspectives. While many states continue to mandate an APN-physician relationship, the premise of the direct practice doctorate in nursing is that the graduate would not require specific physician ties."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/453247_4
 
S6MD said:
WTF is this. Scary stuff if you ask me. "Traditional titles like physician and nurse will blur as we transcend disciplines and overlapping roles to provide evidence-based and satisfying care, albeit with different perspectives. While many states continue to mandate an APN-physician relationship, the premise of the direct practice doctorate in nursing is that the graduate would not require specific physician ties."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/453247_4
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Yeah, old news here. You will be dealing with the repercussions as a prospective, newly minted physician in the next decade or so.
 
Physician assistant's are th eanswer to that..
 
fab4fan said:
I think we should start doing shots every time a pre-med/med student discovers the "big bad NP threat." See how long we can stay sober.
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"SDN: The Drinking Game."

I think you may be onto something. 😉
 
Kaushik said:
Because SDN = 4Chan right? Two different populations (for the most part), my friend...

But we're derailing this thread with this unnecessary seriousness! Let's bring it back to drinking games! 😛
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Internet commenter is an Internet commenter, self included...just yanking your chain kaushik.

So one drink for every NP doomsday post, I say double shots for every user with a first post trolling and triple shots for "can't we just get along." we'll never survive.
 
It's not just the nurses, but their assistants as well!

From the wikipedia page on

Certified nursing assistant

The Nursing Assistant is an important member of the health care team who often holds a high level of experience and ability, but without qualification is unable to often perform some tasks due to issues of liability and legality.

lol. We are holding them back!


......

continue on
 
fab4fan said:
I think we should start doing shots every time a pre-med/med student discovers the "big bad NP threat." See how long we can stay sober.
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Fab4fan shows innovative thinking and leadership skills. I think she is a good DNP candidate!

😀

Oldiebutgoodie
 
Nymphicus said:
It's not just the nurses, but their assistants as well!

From the wikipedia page on

Certified nursing assistant

The Nursing Assistant is an important member of the health care team who often holds a high level of experience and ability, but without qualification is unable to often perform some tasks due to issues of liability and legality.

lol. We are holding them back!


......

continue on
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For that matter, medical assistants are just like nurses too! They can do everything a nurse can do. We're just too provincial about that "nurse" title.
 
Denatured said:
So one drink for every NP doomsday post, I say double shots for every user with a first post trolling and triple shots for "can't we just get along." we'll never survive.
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Dr Oops said:
What does education have to do w/ getting a DNP? Ba Zing!
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I'm very disappointed in myself for not thinking of either of these! 🙁

Need to up my game...
 
Sorry, the OP is just a lowly pre-med. But even pre-meds know about the big, bad turf war. It makes for a well educated, future class of doctors.
 
S6MD said:
Sorry, the OP is just a lowly pre-med. But even pre-meds know about the big, bad turf war. It makes for a well educated, future class of doctors.
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Yeah, but if you'd bothered to do a "search" on this topic, you'd have seen there are about 50,000 gajillion posts on this topic. In fact, there are quite a few threads currently going even as we speak. That's why people are busting your chops, not because you're a "lowly" pre-med. (Your words, not mine.)
 
S6MD said:
...It makes for a well educated, future class of doctors.
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Careful, internet message board fodder (read:conjecture) does not usually translate to 'well educated' reality (for both 'sides' of this equation)
 
Denatured said:
...
So one drink for every NP doomsday post, I say double shots for every user with a first post trolling and triple shots for "can't we just get along." we'll never survive.
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How many drinks for the posts of overachievers with 5 years of volunteer hospital experience, perfect MCATs and a 4.0 GPA worrying they won't get into med school?
 
Overachiever posts... Hmmm... That would have to be a different game. This one is about midlevels. Since that occurs so often I would say one shot, two shots for premeds asking if online classes are ok, and 3 for every premed that had crap grades but blames non-acceptance on being a minority/politics/etc.

As a matter of fact, any "premed drinking game" should be played with beer since all types occur so often. You would be listing inpatient alcohol poisoning as observation experience otherwise.
 
Not sure where to post this but this is good.

Basic story:
So hospital changes policy so that NP's in ED must discuss with attending for each patient because recent $7.5 million lawsuit where NP screwed up.

New NP doesn't like policy change and complains. Her ED staffing company later terminates her.

She sues

She loses first round and on appeal.

TONYA GAGER v. RIVER PARK HOSPITAL

This is why I don't support litigation reform. Lawsuits are a pain but it's a very, very effective deterrrent to NP's or CRNA's from gaining much ground.

All it takes is one marginally trained NP or CRNA that costs the hospital multi-millions and the policies of entire hospital changes.

That's why we should simply allow NP's and CRNA's have complete autonomy now and let the chips fall where they may. Let the negligent cases build up and the lawsuits be filed.

You can change laws to increase scope but if you don't increase the true clinical competence and training of the individual then you aren't doing your group any favors.
 
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Not speaking ill against FNPs, after all my PCP is a FNP, but I don't believe any professional health program should be offered online at all. Whether it be DNP, PA or even a Rehab Science. I don't believe that online health degree programs should be accredited. They're are careers where online programs are great but they don't belong in the healthcare industry.
 
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ETSUUndergrad said:
Not speaking ill against FNPs, after all my PCP is a FNP, but I don't believe any professional health program should be offered online at all. Whether it be DNP, PA or even a Rehab Science. I don't believe that online health degree programs should be accredited. They're are careers where online programs are great but they don't belong in the healthcare industry.
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which is part of the issue of y r we lowering the standard of independent practice for them, instead of them coming up to the established level.
 
ETSUUndergrad said:
Not speaking ill against FNPs, after all my PCP is a FNP, but I don't believe any professional health program should be offered online at all. Whether it be DNP, PA or even a Rehab Science. I don't believe that online health degree programs should be accredited. They're are careers where online programs are great but they don't belong in the healthcare industry.
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Would you include the Dr. or Master's in Public health? The MS in PA studies? Or are you referring that those "1st" professional degrees for the PA or NP not be online?
 
prairiedog said:
Would you include the Dr. or Master's in Public health? The MS in PA studies? Or are you referring that those "1st" professional degrees for the PA or NP not be online?
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I'm talking about the "1st" professional degrees for the PA and NP. I wouldn't want to go to a PCP who completed the majority of their degree online. Most MPHs aren't working in a clinical setting so I believe online programs would be alright in that case.

This is just my opinion on the matter.
 
Kaushik said:
Can you repost the link Taurus? Whenever I click on it, it says "Problem loading page" or "File not found."
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TONYA GAGER v. RIVER PARK HOSPITAL

As long as most US presidents and Congress people are lawyers, there will never be meaningful lawsuit reform in this country, ie, ain't ever going to happen. Without protection from lawsuits, NP's will never truly be "independent". Being able to handle 80% of what comes through the door competently is not good enough in a lawsuit happy country like ours. You have to be able to match the performance and competency of a physician or you will be sued out of business. Unless, of course, the NP's decide to upgrade their training to match that of physicians. At that point, why not simply get an MD then? Even after a 100 years, most people have no idea what a DO is even though DO's have equivalent training as MD's. Just imagine how difficult it will be for the DNP's. In the public's eye, the DNP = inferior care, poor people care, not physician, not real doctor. Most "independent" DNP's will smartly stick with the low acuity (less likely for lawsuits), bread-and-butter, low paying areas of medicine. If they want to go beyond that, they will have to go back to being dependent on physicians again.
 
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ETSUUndergrad said:
I'm talking about the "1st" professional degrees for the PA and NP. I wouldn't want to go to a PCP who completed the majority of their degree online. Most MPHs aren't working in a clinical setting so I believe online programs would be alright in that case.

This is just my opinion on the matter.
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It's my understanding that NP programs are commonly online
However, my understanding is that PA programs are full-time programs (not online) with the exception of a few 3 year programs that spread the didactic over 2 years.

I agree - i wouldn't want a PCP/Provider who completed their degree online, set up their own clinicals, ect....but I don't think you can lump PA education into the same catagory as NP's education.

Oh yea, PA's embrace being physician extenders (dependent HCare providers)
 
prairiedog said:
Would you include the Dr. or Master's in Public health? The MS in PA studies? Or are you referring that those "1st" professional degrees for the PA or NP not be online?
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I don't care if you do your didactic training online. What I have a problem with is that biology undergrads have a better basic science foundation than NP/DNP curricula offer. There's something seriously wrong with that. Why not let biology majors who volunteered several hundreds of hours in the hospital practice independently then?

Experience is not a replacement for a solid, basic science foundation. Especially when the experience that these midlevels tout is in nursing, not medicine. And this is the key point that these vocal nursing midlevels are missing.
 
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