Nurses Launch Campaign to Alert Public to Dangers of Medical Technology

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Because physicians are supposed to be the leaders of healthcare teams. Why are our national organizations not putting out anything?

Delegation. Nurses love this sort of thing and if anyone is going to campaign to the lay public over matters of safety, it's gonna be a nurse organization.

Besides, which national organization(s) are you referring to?
 
I've written off the AMA as useful for anything. I was referring to ACP or other specialty organizatikns
Bc medical specialty societies have small budgets. That being said, the ACP is directly in bed with the tenets of Obamacare, unlike other specialty societies.
 
I'm not sure what "insisting on an RN" has anything to do with the safety of medical technology, hospital profits, or staffing issues, but ok.
Watch the entire ad, doctors are mentioned several times as well, including also by the nurse. Don't go at it from the NP angle (which this commercial has nothing to do with). This commercial is quite benign.
 
I'm not sure what "insisting on an RN" has anything to do with the safety of medical technology, hospital profits, or staffing issues, but ok.
Hospitals are increasingly using LPNs and nurses aides and in the OR, surgical techs, instead of 4 year degreed RNs.
 
Hospitals are increasingly using LPNs and nurses aides and in the OR, surgical techs, instead of 4 year degreed RNs.

Then that's pretty damn terrifying. At the two hospitals we rotate at LPNs' only real involvement is taking qX vitals and janitorial tasks (replacing sheets, bathing patients, etc.). I can't believe that's actually acceptable.


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Then that's pretty damn terrifying. At the two hospitals we rotate at LPNs' only real involvement is taking qX vitals and janitorial tasks (replacing sheets, bathing patients, etc.). I can't believe that's actually acceptable.


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And that's still the norm. However, none of the community hospitals I operate at has scrub "nurses" they are all techs. In some states, LPNs are administering medsIVF, doing wound care and home health. Small stuff to be sure, but with potential for error.
 
Saw this on another site.

http://www.nationalnursesunited.org...lert-public-to-dangers-of-medical-technology/

Interesting to see nurses taking this on.
So I've watched this ad, again and again. Excellently constructed on so many levels both for the layman and for those who keep up with and are knowledgeable about healthcare (health insurance, Watson, etc.). They got more than their money's worth for that ad. The impact is powerful. Oh, and I wanted to punch the hospital administrator and the hippie in the face.
 
Perhaps its just me, but when was the last time you walked into a patient's room and it was actually an RN at the bedside. More often than not, I go to speak to the person in the room with the patient and are told, "oh I'm just the aide". Bedside patient care by RNs is being replaced by sitting in front of a computer.
 
WTF! Is it bc of the nursing shortage? Or is that just a contrived shortage? I know Vanderbilt recently made news as well: http://www.wsmv.com/story/23364976/vanderbilt-medical-center-to-have-nurses-cleaning-up. They have a lot of ridiculous documenting to do as well.

It's completely different depending on where you go. Where I live there are 8 ways to get an RN and 2 big hospitals that they feed into. I think there are a total of 0 LPNs between the two of them and RNs aren't likely to get a job without experience. Luckily I passed myself off as a phlebotomist and signed up for the MCAT. Then I start looking at other states and find out that they actively recruit and actually give sign-on bonuses to RNs. What the ****?
 
It's completely different depending on where you go. Where I live there are 8 ways to get an RN and 2 big hospitals that they feed into. I think there are a total of 0 LPNs between the two of them and RNs aren't likely to get a job without experience. Luckily I passed myself off as a phlebotomist and signed up for the MCAT. Then I start looking at other states and find out that they actively recruit and actually give sign-on bonuses to RNs. What the ****?
Most of the RNs I know actually want to do a good job - esp. MICU nurses. You can bet if hospitals treat nurses like ****, it gets all over allnurses.com and so no one wants to go there, hence the necessity for signing bonuses. The good hospitals don't need signing bonuses, bc nurses WANT to work there.
 
Perhaps its just me, but when was the last time you walked into a patient's room and it was actually an RN at the bedside. More often than not, I go to speak to the person in the room with the patient and are told, "oh I'm just the aide". Bedside patient care by RNs is being replaced by sitting in front of a computer.

This is what kills me about computers in the hospital in general. Its not the nurses fault, it was super eye opening for me the first time I scrolled through the 24hr patient log and saw the massive amount of documentation even 1 day of nursing for 1 patient generates, and for the most part its a complete waste that nobody cares about ("patients eyeglasses are within reach", does that really need to be documented q8hrs by a trained healthcare professional????). Same thing for tons of the physician generated documentation. Plugging data into computers to never be looked at again is sapping so much time from all healthcare providers, its sad.
 
This is what kills me about computers in the hospital in general. Its not the nurses fault, it was super eye opening for me the first time I scrolled through the 24hr patient log and saw the massive amount of documentation even 1 day of nursing for 1 patient generates, and for the most part its a complete waste that nobody cares about ("patients eyeglasses are within reach", does that really need to be documented q8hrs by a trained healthcare professional????). Same thing for tons of the physician generated documentation. Plugging data into computers to never be looked at again is sapping so much time from all healthcare providers, its sad.

Jesus christ. Who comes up with these requirements?
 
Jesus christ. Who comes up with these requirements?
It's ridiculous. Not sure if you've ever read the Gomer blog but they are always making fun of nurses documenting on documenting. Every month there's something extra I have to document. And if a patient develops an HAI we get scrutinized based on our documentation down to if a bath was performed on our shift, how often foley care was done, etc. I am all for reducing HAIs but if a patient has diarrhea and is squirmy with a foley in they are high risk for a UTI even with me in there cleaning every hour. If it's not documented that then it didn't happen.
 
I don't understand, which hospital has a bedside computer that's doing diagnosis and treatment with no doctors or nurses around? I don't think that exists anywhere.

Computers are powerful tools, and given time will become indispensable to the practice of medicine and nursing. Objecting the advancement of medical technology is just foolish.
 
Then that's pretty damn terrifying. At the two hospitals we rotate at LPNs' only real involvement is taking qX vitals and janitorial tasks (replacing sheets, bathing patients, etc.). I can't believe that's actually acceptable.


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WTF! Is it bc of the nursing shortage? Or is that just a contrived shortage? I know Vanderbilt recently made news as well: http://www.wsmv.com/story/23364976/vanderbilt-medical-center-to-have-nurses-cleaning-up. They have a lot of ridiculous documenting to do as well.

There is no nursing shortage. It has more to do with hospitals being more concerned with dollars over patients. IOW, a contrived shortage.
 
Perhaps its just me, but when was the last time you walked into a patient's room and it was actually an RN at the bedside. More often than not, I go to speak to the person in the room with the patient and are told, "oh I'm just the aide". Bedside patient care by RNs is being replaced by sitting in front of a computer.

And we hate it. I went to school to take care of patients, not computers.
 
Most of the RNs I know actually want to do a good job - esp. MICU nurses. You can bet if hospitals treat nurses like ****, it gets all over allnurses.com and so no one wants to go there, hence the necessity for signing bonuses. The good hospitals don't need signing bonuses, bc nurses WANT to work there.


I don't understand, which hospital has a bedside computer that's doing diagnosis and treatment with no doctors or nurses around? I don't think that exists anywhere.

Computers are powerful tools, and given time will become indispensable to the practice of medicine and nursing. Objecting the advancement of medical technology is just foolish.

TBH, sign-on bonuses are pretty rare. You used to see crazy bonuses, like up to 10K in the late 80s, early 90s. The last sign-on bonus I got was 4K, and that was over 8 years ago.

The ad is satire. It's meant to draw attention to the fact that hospitals are increasing relying on computer programs to drive patient care.
 
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I don't understand, which hospital has a bedside computer that's doing diagnosis and treatment with no doctors or nurses around? I don't think that exists anywhere.

Computers are powerful tools, and given time will become indispensable to the practice of medicine and nursing. Objecting the advancement of medical technology is just foolish.
They are definitely powerful tools. I'm actually really excited about our pumps being integrated to the computer system. Less human error and better I/O documentation and a truer picture of how meds are being titrated.

But it's scary as **** when 4 months after you have a patient they file a complaint that they developed a skin tear when you transferred them from their ICU bed to the floor bed. Somebody sits you down in front of a chart and says what do you remember about this patient? The entire thing is a bunch of check boxes that look like every other patient I have. Thank goodness the person investigating said something about the patients significant other and I was able to recall that shift and explain there were 5 people helping this obese pt change beds and she never complained.

Not sure if that makes sense but had the documentation system been less check boxes and more free text I would actually document more things unique to the pt. Instead we are discouraged from using free text forms.
 
They are definitely powerful tools. I'm actually really excited about our pumps being integrated to the computer system. Less human error and better I/O documentation and a truer picture of how meds are being titrated.

But it's scary as **** when 4 months after you have a patient they file a complaint that they developed a skin tear when you transferred them from their ICU bed to the floor bed. Somebody sits you down in front of a chart and says what do you remember about this patient? The entire thing is a bunch of check boxes that look like every other patient I have. Thank goodness the person investigating said something about the patients significant other and I was able to recall that shift and explain there were 5 people helping this obese pt change beds and she never complained.

Not sure if that makes sense but had the documentation system been less check boxes and more free text I would actually document more things unique to the pt. Instead we are discouraged from using free text forms.

What is their reasoning behind discouraging you from writing free text forms?
 
That's a shame that they forgot what nursing is really about.

They never knew. There are "nurses" that go straight into administration. BS Nurses can find an informatics or "quality improvement" job that gets them on the admin track without ever having to really do patient care. I had a manager who went from undergrad into a masters program and came out into a management position having never cared for a patient outside of the limited hours required in school. Diploma and community college nurses don't get the same respect as 4 year grads, but they do tend to have a lot more patient care experience, even in their two year programs.
 
They never knew. There are "nurses" that go straight into administration. BS Nurses can find an informatics or "quality improvement" job that gets them on the admin track without ever having to really do patient care. I had a manager who went from undergrad into a masters program and came out into a management position having never cared for a patient outside of the limited hours required in school. Diploma and community college nurses don't get the same respect as 4 year grads, but they do tend to have a lot more patient care experience, even in their two year programs.

That's a shame. I feel like a lot of nursing schools' are too eager to take students' money and entice them with stuff like this, which in the end does them a disservice, because if you don't know how to care for a patient, you're not a nurse and you wasted your time in nursing school. Should have gotten an MBA instead.
 
What is their reasoning behind discouraging you from writing free text forms?

They told me that it "creates too many sources of truth." Honestly, that was the exact phrase.

They are concerned that if you write something free text that could be interpreted as conflicting with something checked off in the check boxes, that it could invalidate your charting as a defense in court.

Also, it is a hell of a lot easier to get people to lie by checking a box than to write the lie out long hand. When you are desperately understaffed, and don't have time to do more than the minimum care, but know you are expected to have done everything, they know they can get you in the habit of checking the boxes that say that the work was done. People wouldn't be able to bring themselves to write that they had repositioned the patient q2h when they knew they were lucky to see each patient once every 4, but they will check boxes saying it happened. Some hospitals don't care about whether the patient really gets turned. They just care that when the pressure ulcer happens, they can deny liability. That may not be as true, now that they don't get paid if the pressure ulcer happens, but it was a fact back when I was a floor nurse.
 
They told me that it "creates too many sources of truth." Honestly, that was the exact phrase.

They are concerned that if you write something free text that could be interpreted as conflicting with something checked off in the check boxes, that it could invalidate your charting as a defense in court.

Also, it is a hell of a lot easier to get people to lie by checking a box than to write the lie out long hand. When you are desperately understaffed, and don't have time to do more than the minimum care, but know you are expected to have done everything, they know they can get you in the habit of checking the boxes that say that the work was done. People wouldn't be able to bring themselves to write that they had repositioned the patient q2h when they knew they were lucky to see each patient once every 4, but they will check boxes saying it happened. Some hospitals don't care about whether the patient really gets turned. They just care that when the pressure ulcer happens, they can deny liability. That may not be as true, now that they don't get paid if the pressure ulcer happens, but it was a fact back when I was a floor nurse.

At some point the lawyers will wise up to the checkbox thing and then checkboxes will no longer be a valid defense. Then the hospitals will be forced to go back to free text, unless they come up with some other ridiculous strategy to make nurses lie.
 
At some point the lawyers will wise up to the checkbox thing and then checkboxes will no longer be a valid defense. Then the hospitals will be forced to go back to free text, unless they come up with some other ridiculous strategy to make nurses lie.

They already do this to a certain extent by making nurses give scripted responses to patients' questions or patient care issues. It's scary.
 
What is their reasoning behind discouraging you from writing free text forms?
I think the main reason is to discourage duplicate documentation. The old school nurses would create a free text form and fill out the regular assessment. I still prefer my paper assessment but I've only ever worked on two comp systems. So there might be some out there that are awesome.

I'm guessing one big reason is also analysis? For instance it's really easy for my manager to see if we turned our patient's every two hours or did oral care every two hours or documented restraints properly bc there's a section for each one of those things. If I free text any of that info she'd have to "search" for it.

I see the point but that's also the train I'm always worried about forgetting something that seems silly. I will get in trouble if a patient develops a pressure ulcer and I forgot one to document one turn even though I turned that patient q2h every shift.
 
Think about how much power we'd wield collectively if nurses and doctors could set aside their differences and work together on issues such as this one.

Could you elucidate these differences?
 
That's for another day and another thread. Besides, I know when I'm being baited. 😉
You brought it up. I think I took issue with the phrasing. Perhaps I read too much into it.

On a different note, it's good that the nurses are making a stand, but the aggression in the ad doesn't become them.
 
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