Nursing Before Going to Medical School

[Medeirosaurus]

I was wondering if I could get some advice or somebody to sound off regarding the idea of becoming a nurse (mainly for financial reasons) before attending medical school.

Basically, I would pursue an A.S. in Nursing, go into the nursing field and within a year attend a 4 year state university for a B.S. in Biology. Obviously, I would have to attend on a less-than-full-time basis but that would be the case regardless of whether I stay in my current position, or go into nursing.

I can think of a few possible negatives to this plan. I've been told on a couple of occassions that some adcoms may not be too turned on by the idea of having a nurse make the transition to medical school, considering the understaffed climate of the Nursing field. The other negative is the schedule of a nurse. I'm mostly ignorant on this topic, because I don't know any nurses personally to find out about their schedules, but I get the feeling they can have pretty hectic schedules.

Right now the job that I have it fairly laid back. I'm a computer repair tech. I work in a call center where I take inbound phone calls and remotely access peoples pcs to fix them. It's not a difficult job, and there's no mandatory OT (although there is a copious amount available), so it would make for a fairly conducive climate for part-time school. But, the downside is that it only pays $19.00 and change an hour. This is sufficent to maintain a decent standard of living, but I'm certainly not going to be putting much money away.

Which brings me to the issue of supporting my family while in medical school. My wife hasn't been employed in several years, as we have a two-year old that she stays at home with. When she re-enters the workforce, her only real job experience has been retail. She's not very confident about her abilities to score a well-paying job. Thus, completing the circle and taking us back to the nursing option.

It's a bit of a complex situation. Any advice, criticisms, random comments about my constant babbling, etc would be appreciated. Thanks.

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[unsung]

Can you continue your work as a repair tech while pursuing a BS in Bio? I really feel like the nursing to physician route is rife with dangers and distractions.

That said, I suppose it depends on how dead set you are about having the end of the road be becoming a physician. Would you be okay with working as a nurse, making a living, and supporting your family? If the answer is yes, then by all means go for it. If you are really gungho about being a physician, I see becoming a nurse as not only a waste of time and resources, but really a strike against you from the get go, when you do try to apply for medschool. JMO.

 

[Medeirosaurus]

My wife and I have been discussing thia at length lately. I could manage w/o going through nursing. Again, my biggest concern is not having any money when the time comes to actually attend medical school to support my family with. I guess I could take out mega-lona every year and then pay them back at some point...but boy would that suck. I'm definitly set on becoming a physician. If nursing will cause any ripples in the adcom's pond, then I won't do it. It's their park, I just want to play in it.

 

[Maxprime]

If avoidable, don't do it. There is a nursing shortage and a ton of great candidates applying for medical school - just gives them another reason to accept someone else.

 

[Nasrudin]

My advice is simple. Don't take anyone's advice who is not willing to help you take care of your family if things go wrong when following their advice.

This includes me.

Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the nose. Everyone's an arm chair quarterback for other people's decisions.

For reals. This is something no one can help you with. A search would provide you with many cases where people have wrestled with these exact issues. Each is very specific to a person's situation.

Good luck.

 

[jlittlej]

I agree that nursing spots are coveted, and some have said that admissions people might hold it against you. And Nasrudin makes a good point that you have to do what you have to do. A few rambling points of my own:

1. $19/hr is like $40/k. With overtime at 1.5x, that can be a lot more. I wouldn't want to be 40 and raising a family on that salary, but it's certainly not trivial. Less than the generic salary for a nurse ( around $60k, last I saw), but not by much. And I've seen starting salaries for RNs in certain parts of the country that are what you make now or lower. If you want to transition to a career in health care, but all means go to nursing school, but it doesn't seem like a sound decision solely for financial reasons (see no. 2) or a good step for med school.

2. Opportunity cost. All the community college nursing programs I know are .5-1 yr of pre-reqs and 2 years of full-time school. The programs I've seen "strongly advise" not working during those 2 years, but I bet you could get, say, 20 hours of work in a week. Still, tuition plus lost wages = $24/k yr @ 2 yr for $48k, which is what you'd have to make up before you'd be better off financially than you would have if you'd stayed a tech and taken the pre-med pre-reqs at night or something. Becoming a nurse is certainly much more than a financial decision. You'd be exposed to medicine. Care for patients. Learn a lot. But, at least for fewer than five years, it's not a prudent monetary or career decision.

3. You mention a few times about not being able to go to school full-time, and, you also mention working and putting away money (see no. 2) so you won't have to take out mega-loans to support your family. Subpoints:

 

[jlittlej]

Got logged out of the previous post.

Basically, you know you've got a long way to go. I don't know if you have no credit hours or a handful of them - might save you a semester or a year even if they're in random subjects. You can try to get into a nursing program, which might take a year or more just to gain entrance to. Two years of that while you're working less if at all, earning less and probably taking out loans. Start taking bio courses while you're working as a nurse. You'd probably have a handful of general education requirements and maybe a couple bio major requirements covered by those nursing pre-reqs, but a lot of those nursing credits will fall into the general elective category or not help toward a degree at all. Bottom line: nursing AAS to bio BA or BS = a lot more work and a lot of classes where you have to juggle lecture sessions and a lab session around work.

Keeping your current gig and starting the work at a CC and then a four-year to a bio major would take a number of years as well. This wouldn't be easy either working full-time with a family. Would take years, assuming you don't have a good number of prior credit hours.

 

[gman33]

If your goal is to be a doctor, I wouldn't use nursing as a gateway. For one thing, most of the classes you take will not count towards the pre-reqs for med school. You'll have 8 additional science classes you need to take.

Maybe your wife can work on some career training while you work on a UG degree part-time. This would help more than just saving some money over a few years and living off of that in conjunction with loans. Once you start med school you are looking at 7-10 years of no/low income. It may be hard to even get enough loans to pay for your family.

It's tough to do everything you want, especially while supporting a family. Maybe you need to go on a long range plan where your wife upgrades her skills and you slowly work on your degree. Maybe this takes the next 5-8 years. You need to work out the details. Good luck.

Also, if you are thinking about nursing, look into NP and CRNA options. Maybe this would give you what you are looking for in a career and still be able to work and support your family while you are going to school.

 

[njbmd]

I was wondering if I could get some advice or somebody to sound off regarding the idea of becoming a nurse (mainly for financial reasons) before attending medical school.

Basically, I would pursue an A.S. in Nursing, go into the nursing field and within a year attend a 4 year state university for a B.S. in Biology. Obviously, I would have to attend on a less-than-full-time basis but that would be the case regardless of whether I stay in my current position, or go into nursing.

I can think of a few possible negatives to this plan. I've been told on a couple of occassions that some adcoms may not be too turned on by the idea of having a nurse make the transition to medical school, considering the understaffed climate of the Nursing field. The other negative is the schedule of a nurse. I'm mostly ignorant on this topic, because I don't know any nurses personally to find out about their schedules, but I get the feeling they can have pretty hectic schedules.

Right now the job that I have it fairly laid back. I'm a computer repair tech. I work in a call center where I take inbound phone calls and remotely access peoples pcs to fix them. It's not a difficult job, and there's no mandatory OT (although there is a copious amount available), so it would make for a fairly conducive climate for part-time school. But, the downside is that it only pays $19.00 and change an hour. This is sufficent to maintain a decent standard of living, but I'm certainly not going to be putting much money away.

Which brings me to the issue of supporting my family while in medical school. My wife hasn't been employed in several years, as we have a two-year old that she stays at home with. When she re-enters the workforce, her only real job experience has been retail. She's not very confident about her abilities to score a well-paying job. Thus, completing the circle and taking us back to the nursing option.

It's a bit of a complex situation. Any advice, criticisms, random comments about my constant babbling, etc would be appreciated. Thanks.

As a member of two admissions committees, I can tell you that we DON'T care about people moving from nursing to medicine in terms of loss of a nurse. What we DO care about is your suitability for the study of medicine. That being said, if you are anticipating that you NEED to go into nursing for financial reasons, you are likely to encounter a huge number of problems in terms of the pursuit of medicine (financial reasons).

As a medical student, you will be out of the workforce for minimum of 3 1/2 years pursing a degree that is increasingly expensive (tuition and loan interest rates are climbing with deferments being wiped out).

The another point to consider is that nursing is a very difficult field to "work" and go to school. What generally happens is that school performance suffers and you wind up with a mediocre uGPA that is not competitive for medical school. It's very difficult to attend school and work (even with the a less physically and mentally demanding career) but nursing is especially not a great option for work/school.

A better course for you especially if you KNOW that you want to attend medical school, is to get your degree (in whatever) and work at something else (your "laid-back" job) that is not as time-consuming or mentally demanding. While nursing pays well, you earn every cent of that pay. The other thing to consider is that you can't afford to not give 100% to both nursing or your studies.

I don't need to remind you that the average uGPA for matriculants for 2006 was above 3.6. That number has been increasing every year and will likely be even higher by the time you get around to applying. This means that you don't have the option of not doing extremely well in your coursework. Working full-time at a demanding job does not leave a load of time for demanding coursework that you have to perform extremely well in.

I would also caution you to think very carefully about why you want to enter medicine. Since your original post seems to mention the importance of the financial ends of things, you need to objectively consider whether or not you can survive financially while you pursue this career. At this point, it doesn't sound like you can afford to pursue medicine since seem to need a steady source of income which neither you nor your wife have. In addition, you have a young child that you are going to need to support for many more years.

Even after four years of medical school, residency is going to be minimally 3 years (at less than minimum wage) with reimbursements/payments to practicing physicians now being cut year after year. If you are seeking medicine for the money, beware as medicine isn't particularly likely to be financially rewarding especially with the heavy debt burden you are likely to incur. Most people who are graduating this year (and you are years away from even entering medical school) are not going to see a huge income because of an average debt burden of greater than $150K (this is increasing too) for medical school alone.

I am finishing a surgical fellowship (with little debt <$35K) and I will make less than my father who was an internist (primary care) who practiced in the 1960s to 1990s. Compared to my classmates who are in their first five years of practice, I am miles ahead because of the low debt that I have. Compared to people who are just starting medical school, my classmates are miles ahead (we have a lower interest rate). Medicine just isn't that lucrative and is getting less so each day.

Take an objective look at what you want and why you want it because earning a high salary isn't going to be likely in medicine by the time you get there. You also need to look at healthcare careers that might give you a high degree of satisfaction without taking you out of the workforce for the length of time that you would need to pursue medicine in terms of being an MD/DO. When a family is involved and finances are tight, you need to be very, very sure (and have some financial reserve) before you set out on this journey.

 

[mrbeantown]

this was an excellent post. I am a nurse that was just accepted to medical school and it was looked at as a bonus with the clinical experience i have gained. However, the person above is correct in saying you won't get any leeway if your numbers are lower than 3.6 and 30 just because you are a nurse. Some of the other negatives that the others mentioned are simply untrue and a result of propaganda (from where i have no idea). Listen to the person above.

As a member of two admissions committees, I can tell you that we DON'T care about people moving from nursing to medicine in terms of loss of a nurse. What we DO care about is your suitability for the study of medicine. That being said, if you are anticipating that you NEED to go into nursing for financial reasons, you are likely to encounter a huge number of problems in terms of the pursuit of medicine (financial reasons).

As a medical student, you will be out of the workforce for minimum of 3 1/2 years pursing a degree that is increasingly expensive (tuition and loan interest rates are climbing with deferments being wiped out).

The another point to consider is that nursing is a very difficult field to "work" and go to school. What generally happens is that school performance suffers and you wind up with a mediocre uGPA that is not competitive for medical school. It's very difficult to attend school and work (even with the a less physically and mentally demanding career) but nursing is especially not a great option for work/school.

A better course for you especially if you KNOW that you want to attend medical school, is to get your degree (in whatever) and work at something else (your "laid-back" job) that is not as time-consuming or mentally demanding. While nursing pays well, you earn every cent of that pay. The other thing to consider is that you can't afford to not give 100% to both nursing or your studies.

I don't need to remind you that the average uGPA for matriculants for 2006 was above 3.6. That number has been increasing every year and will likely be even higher by the time you get around to applying. This means that you don't have the option of not doing extremely well in your coursework. Working full-time at a demanding job does not leave a load of time for demanding coursework that you have to perform extremely well in.

I would also caution you to think very carefully about why you want to enter medicine. Since your original post seems to mention the importance of the financial ends of things, you need to objectively consider whether or not you can survive financially while you pursue this career. At this point, it doesn't sound like you can afford to pursue medicine since seem to need a steady source of income which neither you nor your wife have. In addition, you have a young child that you are going to need to support for many more years.

Even after four years of medical school, residency is going to be minimally 3 years (at less than minimum wage) with reimbursements/payments to practicing physicians now being cut year after year. If you are seeking medicine for the money, beware as medicine isn't particularly likely to be financially rewarding especially with the heavy debt burden you are likely to incur. Most people who are graduating this year (and you are years away from even entering medical school) are not going to see a huge income because of an average debt burden of greater than $150K (this is increasing too) for medical school alone.

I am finishing a surgical fellowship (with little debt <$35K) and I will make less than my father who was an internist (primary care) who practiced in the 1960s to 1990s. Compared to my classmates who are in their first five years of practice, I am miles ahead because of the low debt that I have. Compared to people who are just starting medical school, my classmates are miles ahead (we have a lower interest rate). Medicine just isn't that lucrative and is getting less so each day.

Take an objective look at what you want and why you want it because earning a high salary isn't going to be likely in medicine by the time you get there. You also need to look at healthcare careers that might give you a high degree of satisfaction without taking you out of the workforce for the length of time that you would need to pursue medicine in terms of being an MD/DO. When a family is involved and finances are tight, you need to be very, very sure (and have some financial reserve) before you set out on this journey.

 

[Krisss17]

I actually started an ADN program this semester. My reasons for pursuing nursing prior to going for medicine involved both personal and financial reasons. Personally, I knew that for myself that if I can't hack it in nursing school...meaning the commitment to follow through on a pretty intense program, then becoming a doctor is really just a pipe dream that has no hopes of coming true for me. Another reason is financial...I'm 43 now, will be 45 when I finish...if for some reason, I decide that nursing is the right fit for me, I can still provide well for me when I graduate and for my future. Even if I have excellent grades/MCAT, there is no guarantee of my getting into med school right away...so I do need to make back-up plans.

Another thing is that I'm finding as I am going through this process, I'm enjoying it. I'm finding myself very much in a Win-Win situation. But for the OP, please realize that becoming an RN requires a lot of hard work and dedication. I was working 36 hours a week on the weekend when I started, but because of the courseload, I did have to drop to 24 hours. It's only because I can do some studying at work that I am able to do this...but if I worked in another position where I didn't have this ability, I would really don't know what I would do.

Kris

 

[t33sg1rl]

I understand your hesitation...

But if you do this, you've stolen one year from your life as a practicing physician. And because your salary increases based on years of experience as a doctor, you've actually given up the highest paying year of your career.
So instead of thinking of a year of nursing as an opportunity to earn 40K, think of it as what it REALLY is: an opportunity to flush 200-300K down the toilet. Just think, if you do nursing for three years, you could be out almost a million bucks!

P.S. Your child is 2. Wouldn't it be nice if you could finish residency and pay back your student loans in time for your kids' college? And wouldn't it be nice if your children didn't have to change schools multiple times because of your path to school/residency/fellowship?

P.P.S. Many med students have stay at home spouses. You will qualify for government assistance/food stamps. You'll have to choose a school with a reasonable cost of living (think Detroit, not Boston) but it's very doable.

 

[jeaneous]

I'm an RN. I have a few comments.
If you want to be a RN for the money don't do it. It doesnt make sense. Your starting salary won't be much higher than $19/hr. And you have a lot more school to pay off. Also, nursing school is very competitive. You may do all your prerequisites only to wait 1-3 years to get in. If you do decide to do nursing, DO NOT mention that this is a means to get through med school. While adcoms for med school may or may not frown upon a RN, adcoms for nursing school WILL frown upon this choice.

 

[Blade28]

Agreed.

Go to nursing school to become a nurse. Don't do it because someone mentioned it might "look good" on a med school app.

 

[kota315]

Wow... I did my best to read all those postings about nursing and medical school and what not... phew... that was tough... With that said, let me give you the opinion of a nurse that is in medical school... me.

Nursing is a great back up plan, remember, medical school doesn't accept all that many people... Case in point, I was one of 2000 applicants at my school, and one of only 160 accepted! Not to mention it took me ten years and three shots at the MCAT to get in, and to be honest nursing made me a better applicant. It gave me the experience, exposure, and networking that got me in. Not to mention I made good money doing it.

As for working while in medical school... I did the holiday's and vacations... other then that I wouldn't recommend doing it... like my mentor told me before I left for school... "the material isn't difficult, it is the sheer magnitude of material that makes it difficult..." he also said "it's a marathon and not a sprint so be sure to pace yourself..."

So, with that said, nursing is a great back up plan just in case you don't get in right away... you should have no problem fulfilling your premed requirements because most of them are the same... I would recommend checking with the program you are interested in and comparing that with the nursing program...

Oh, one more thing... the wait list for nursing school in Michigan is 2-4 years... so it just isn't so easy to get into that anymore either...

Hope that helps at least a little.

Mark - MS3

 

[Medeirosaurus]

Thanks so much for all the feedback. The school I would go to doesn't use a waiting list for its school. I've had other people give me feedback about this as well. There's a real mix of opinions about whether it's a wise idea, or not. I don't think I'm going to do it, primarily because of the sheer work load I'd be facing, and I don't like the idea of having to give 100% to both the job and to school. I wouldn't want to suffer in school, and I REALLY woudn't want one of my patients to suffer as a nurse.

My ultimate goal is medical school - that being said, I can't allow any distractions to get in my way. I'd prefer to stay at my job, go to school part time while my wife also goes to school, and do REALLY well in all of my courses. I think I'll just pursue a B.S. in Biology (which is my favorite subject of study), instead.

Thanks again for everyone's feedback. It was very helpful.

 

[plowboy911]

My ultimate goal is medical school - that being said, I can't allow any distractions to get in my way. I'd prefer to stay at my job, go to school part time while my wife also goes to school, and do REALLY well in all of my courses. I think I'll just pursue a B.S. in Biology (which is my favorite subject of study), instead.

Thanks again for everyone's feedback. It was very helpful.

Sounds like you have already made a wise decision, but as a nurse, I wanted to add my two cents. Definitely focus on going to med school and not nursing if this is your goal. As already stated, you are making as much now as you would in entry-level nursing. I also suspect you have a bit more flexibility now than you would. Sure, you have FOUR days off as a nurse, but the days you do work are set in stone, unless you ask for them off 2 months in advance, and there is little time or energy for study on days you do work. You are unlikely to find a hospital or floor that allows you to work only Tues and Thurs because you have class Mon, Wed and Fri, and with a family I doubt the weekend option would work. I always laugh at the "flexibility" fallacy with nursing. Flexible the schedule is not. You would get a little taste of medicine as a nurse, but overall I think it would be a waste for you. Just my opinion... Best of luck.

 

[drewx2]

This was an excellent thread and happens to be a very familiar position for me. Though there are minor differences.

I have my own business (I work from home majority of time, watching daughter), my wife is a scientist. However my wife now wishes to no longer work and stay home with my daughter which has led me to want to go into nursing / medical field. Although I rather just go straight Premed, my wife really wants to quit her job asap so as to not miss the early years of our child (shes 9 months). Which is why I am doing nursing first (and for the clinical experience).

My plan of course is follows: ADN->transfer to UCSD/USC (change to Bio major) and work 2 years as nurse while finishing major -> Apply to med school.

We have just one child and although we own a home (may sell or just rent), I believe I can follow this path. And if I am real lucky and can get into med school in Southern Cali, I have family that can help us out.

I have tried to talk my wife into letting me go premed first but shes really pushing me to go nursing, which I dont mind so much because I am very eager to work in a hospital to help people out. I am hoping to work along the lines of ER/ICU/Trauma.

Anyone else in a similar situation?

 

[friolenta]

sorry, double post

 

[friolenta]

Hello, I am an RN and was accepted to several DO schools for the class of 2012. I graduated in '01 with a BS in Biology and then graduated as an RN in '07. When I started as a nursing student, I did not have any medical experience and I was thinking about doing an NP degree but wasn't sure what route I was going to go.

Despite what others have said I think that having experience as a nurse actually worked in my favor on my med school applications/interviews. I think DO schools, at least, value those experiences. In retrospect, doing my nursing degree was obviously a waste of time and money now that i'm going to med school. But it's also given me a lot of great experience.

If you haven't completed your undergrad degree yet, why don't you go the RN (at community college) to BSN route. That should take you just 4 years. Many hospitals will pay for your BSN degree that if you work for them for a few years after graduation. Or major in nursing at a 4 year school. Med schools don't care what you major in. Just make sure that you complete all of your prerequisites needed for med school.(I don't know how favorably med schools look at classes taken at community colleges, however.)

As a nurse you have to work many holidays and many weekends. As many have said, it can be extremely inflexible. It's the most inflexible job I've ever had, and it doesn't pay any more than I was making with a B.S. in Biochemistry.

In any case, you're going to be spending a heck of a lot of money and time on your medical school degree. Nursing probably won't put too much of a dent in the debt, but it will give you some great experience.

 

[Fltmedic2DO]

I was wondering if I could get some advice or somebody to sound off regarding the idea of becoming a nurse (mainly for financial reasons) before attending medical school.

Basically, I would pursue an A.S. in Nursing, go into the nursing field and within a year attend a 4 year state university for a B.S. in Biology. Obviously, I would have to attend on a less-than-full-time basis but that would be the case regardless of whether I stay in my current position, or go into nursing.

I can think of a few possible negatives to this plan. I've been told on a couple of occassions that some adcoms may not be too turned on by the idea of having a nurse make the transition to medical school, considering the understaffed climate of the Nursing field. The other negative is the schedule of a nurse. I'm mostly ignorant on this topic, because I don't know any nurses personally to find out about their schedules, but I get the feeling they can have pretty hectic schedules.

Right now the job that I have it fairly laid back. I'm a computer repair tech. I work in a call center where I take inbound phone calls and remotely access peoples pcs to fix them. It's not a difficult job, and there's no mandatory OT (although there is a copious amount available), so it would make for a fairly conducive climate for part-time school. But, the downside is that it only pays $19.00 and change an hour. This is sufficent to maintain a decent standard of living, but I'm certainly not going to be putting much money away.

Which brings me to the issue of supporting my family while in medical school. My wife hasn't been employed in several years, as we have a two-year old that she stays at home with. When she re-enters the workforce, her only real job experience has been retail. She's not very confident about her abilities to score a well-paying job. Thus, completing the circle and taking us back to the nursing option.

It's a bit of a complex situation. Any advice, criticisms, random comments about my constant babbling, etc would be appreciated. Thanks.

Hey buddy,

I'm kinda in the same Boat, but my career led me to EMS (Paramedic) instead of nursing. I, like most of my non-trads in EMS got distracted by the JOB b/c we love it just a little too much. Nonetheless, I have also found my higher calling again. Now, 10 years later and countless of patients on land, sea and in the air I find myself with one foot in the grave and a forearm hooked up to a Propofol drip (don't worry, you'll get it later...) due to a poor O-chem tutor. My point is, There are quite few of us out there trying to support families while we're trying to fulfill this burning desire to become physicians. If experience is want you want, I strongly encourage you to check out an EMT-B program at your local community college. These types of courses only take a semester and then you may be qualified to work on an ambulance, Fire Dept., or hospital Emergency Room. You might still make more doing what you do at your regular 9-fiver. But the experience and the stories you'll have will be PRICELESS$$$$ I had a partner once in the Fire Dept. I was his Medic and he was my EMT. He was supporting a wife and 3 kids when he decided he was going to finish the prereqs and do it. It took him 3 years to complete, but now he's applying this cycle like myself. We are both considering the Health Professions Scholarship Program through the military. It's a pretty good gig if you have a family to support especially during the residency. They literally make almost twice as much as Civilian Residents with all the benefits and living allowances for you and your family (The more dependents you have the more $$$ they will give you a month) There are some drawbacks though. Check out the thread here on SDN. If it's experience you want, then try looking into EMS as an EMT-Basic (then eventually EMT-P). No other program will prepare you for the kind of autonomy as well as the kind of mindset a physician must develope in such short amount of training (one semester). Other folks may comment differently. I believe there's a thread here on EMS prior to MD/DO. BTW DO schools seem to love older, well rounded, fully experienced individuals. For some reason, they tend to believe they'll make good doctors;-) JMO. Good luck Bud.

 

[luv2rad8]

Nursing school is as competitive as getting into medical school now. Take it from me...I tried the "I'll get the lesser degree and then apply to medical school" approach. If you want medical school in the end, go for it now and save yourself time and money.

 

[acron97]

Can you continue your work as a repair tech while pursuing a BS in Bio? I really feel like the nursing to physician route is rife with dangers and distractions.

That said, I suppose it depends on how dead set you are about having the end of the road be becoming a physician. Would you be okay with working as a nurse, making a living, and supporting your family? If the answer is yes, then by all means go for it. If you are really gungho about being a physician, I see becoming a nurse as not only a waste of time and resources, but really a strike against you from the get go, when you do try to apply for medschool. JMO.

I am currently in a nursing program, a second degree bac in nursing. My first degree is in molecular and cell biology, with the prerequisites to go to med school. I wanted to see what nursing was like and thought because the program is only a year, becoming a nurse wouldn't be detrimental. I thought gaining clinical experience of whatever kind would be beneficial, and would look good on my application. Is there really a bias against people who were nurses before? I'm half way done with my 12 month long program, should I drop out, if I want to go to med school. I really enjoy the science aspect of medicine and have excellent grades.

 

[acron97]

Nursing school is as competitive as getting into medical school now. Take it from me...I tried the "I'll get the lesser degree and then apply to medical school" approach. If you want medical school in the end, go for it now and save yourself time and money.

Is it really?

 

[nohika]

Is it really?

It'd be curious to see, to be honest. I think what's happening is that nursing is being touted as "the profession that takes everyone" and "being recession-proof" which is TOTALLY not the case. All of the hospitals in my area (and most in my state) have hiring freezes, 90% are not having their new-grad internship programs.

For 48 positions, my little community college alone had 500 applications. I would guess it's worse elsewhere. We don't do waitlists.

 

[spudbunny]

Hi,

My situation is somewhat similar to yours so I felt compelled to add my 2 cents. I am in my last semester of a weekend ADN program - I work a normal 40 hours in a healthcare IT consulting firm. There is no clear cut answer as to whether an ADN makes sense or not for you. I too am interested in med school - I have completed the bio, physics and inorganic chem when I got the opportunity to do the weekend ADN program. It is possible to work 40 hours and do well IF you have a history of performing well in science classes, do not have horrible commutes and have a supportive family. As for the nursing prerequisites - nursing schools will accept the bio and inorganic chem/organic chem classes that pre meds take so you wouldn't have to take those twice. Depending on the cost of the ADN program, its structure (how many times a week you have to be there) it could be a great stepping stone or fallback plan in case you need to support your family, reapply multiple times, or decide that NP might meet your needs better than MD. Additionally, there is no "nursing shortage" for new nursing graduates and experienced nurses are having trouble finding positions as well - look at www.allnurses.com to confirm this. It wouldn't hurt to check out your local nursing schools and find out exactly what is necessary and if there are any wait lists. If you decide that clinical healthcare is not your thing, you would still be able to use the rn to get healthcare IT positions. Good Luck with your decision

 

[Nasrudin]

It's always funny to me. When an old thread gets shuttled abruptly into the present.

The OP might have finished truck-driving school and be somewheres else entirely.

But for the sake of conversation.

Man. When I was deciding between premed and nursing school. There was like everybody and their cousin gunning for nursing school. Dot-Com worlds burning and crumbling. (Anybody remember Cosmo. That service that would bring you a movie and an ice cream from some dude on a BMX. Right.)

And the hospitals couldn't find enough warm bodies. New nursing grads were walking out of school right into the ED or the ICU. Making bank.

And now. The landscape is all changed. Nobody can afford to hire nurses at their going rate. It's all boom and bust. Until every last one of us is working for minimum wage at a warehouse of consumer goods in Toledo.

 

[mooshika]

It'd be curious to see, to be honest. I think what's happening is that nursing is being touted as "the profession that takes everyone" and "being recession-proof" which is TOTALLY not the case. All of the hospitals in my area (and most in my state) have hiring freezes, 90% are not having their new-grad internship programs.

For 48 positions, my little community college alone had 500 applications. I would guess it's worse elsewhere. We don't do waitlists.

Nursing school means different things depending on your degree status, but other than traditional 4-year BSN programs, it is very very difficult to get into a nursing program, especially the accelerated post-bac programs. Also the CC's who give out Associates degrees are extremely difficult to get in because of the number of people applying and the limited number of spaces, so the people with high GPA's in their pre-nursing sciences get preference. (Chem, Bio, Microbiology, Statistics, A & P, Psych, Develomental Psych)

The people accepted to my accelerated post bac had a GRE average over 1200 and a GPA over 3.6 not too different from med school by comparison.

 

[jl lin]

As a member of two admissions committees, I can tell you that we DON'T care about people moving from nursing to medicine in terms of loss of a nurse. What we DO care about is your suitability for the study of medicine. That being said, if you are anticipating that you NEED to go into nursing for financial reasons, you are likely to encounter a huge number of problems in terms of the pursuit of medicine (financial reasons).

As a medical student, you will be out of the workforce for minimum of 3 1/2 years pursing a degree that is increasingly expensive (tuition and loan interest rates are climbing with deferments being wiped out).

The another point to consider is that nursing is a very difficult field to "work" and go to school. What generally happens is that school performance suffers and you wind up with a mediocre uGPA that is not competitive for medical school. It's very difficult to attend school and work (even with the a less physically and mentally demanding career) but nursing is especially not a great option for work/school.

This is quite true. With rotating schedules for shift work, little control of your work schedule, even with "self-scheduling" and things like "nursing self-governance" it is quite tough at times.

I'd say it might work a bit better for you if you were already an established RN. I mean at least then you could take per diem positions; but you aren't going to get those kinds of positions without experience, and many places want strong experience. But coming into it new. . .well, you will have to pay your dues&#8212;most have to anyway.

A better course for you especially if you KNOW that you want to attend medical school, is to get your degree (in whatever) and work at something else (your "laid-back" job) that is not as time-consuming or mentally demanding.

While nursing pays well, you earn every cent of that pay.

I give njbmd a serious Amen to that!

The other thing to consider is that you can't afford to not give 100% to both nursing or your studies.

Even after four years of medical school, residency is going to be minimally 3 years (at less than minimum wage) with reimbursements/payments to practicing physicians now being cut year after year. If you are seeking medicine for the money, beware as medicine isn't particularly likely to be financially rewarding especially with the heavy debt burden you are likely to incur. Most people who are graduating this year (and you are years away from even entering medical school) are not going to see a huge income because of an average debt burden of greater than $150K (this is increasing too) for medical school alone.

I am finishing a surgical fellowship (with little debt <$35K) and I will make less than my father who was an internist (primary care) who practiced in the 1960s to 1990s. Compared to my classmates who are in their first five years of practice, I am miles ahead because of the low debt that I have. Compared to people who are just starting medical school, my classmates are miles ahead (we have a lower interest rate). Medicine just isn't that lucrative and is getting less so each day.

Again, it's only too true!
---

If your goal is to be a doctor, I wouldn't use nursing as a gateway. For one thing, most of the classes you take will not count towards the pre-reqs for med school. You'll have 8 additional science classes you need to take.

*sigh* I'll just keep saying this until I turn blue I think. Many nursing programs require the same General Bios w/ labs and General Chem. And they should at least require these in my view; since A&P I & II w/ labs, Microbiology w/ lab are all required, as well as an increasing number of programs now require pathophys and advanced pharm for undergrad. Many positions are advertised for BSN required. For those you also need Statistics and research coursework. However, even if a particular problem has some kind of watered down sciences, you can always opt to take the typical ones--General Bios and Chems. Many do that. And whenever there is some demonstration of something less rigorous than Gen Bio or Gen Chem, it puts my panties in a knot; b/c it is completely idiotic. No one should be any kind of healthcare professional if they can't pass General Bios and General Chems! Idiotic in the extreme!

You will, however, find now that there are hiring freezes for nurses in many, many parts of the country. Sometimes they open up temporarily, only to be closed again in a short period of time. They can be picky, and they list BSN as a requirement. The BSN really has very little to do with the clinical component; but since there has been a push for decades now to make the BSN the baseline for nursing education, many places are pushing this agenda&#8212;and most organizations and hospital special accreditations are pushing for this too. And really with the way things are going, it makes no sense to get a nursing degree separate from a BSN.

Also, if you are thinking about nursing, look into NP and CRNA options. Maybe this would give you what you are looking for in a career and still be able to work and support your family while you are going to school.

These are longer programs of study, since they are advanced practice nursing. What's more, they usually require clinical experience as a RN. At one to three years of full-time work as a RN, the truth really is that you are still considered more of a novice in practice. So you are talking four year undergrad for nursing, about two&#8212;three years masters--plus at least one or two years working full-time clinically as a RN in an acute care or critical care setting. If you are talking CRNA you will need strong critical care experience as a RN and a BSN and good GRE scores, since these programs are highly competitive. What's more, you generally aren't allowed or are not encouraged to work at all in a nurse anesthetist program&#8212;and you will be AT the hospital many times AT 6am&#8212;not getting up, but there already preparing for cases. The programs are generally 2 years 6 mo to 2 years 7 mo.s long AFTER a four year nursing degree and getting full-time critical care experience as critical care RN. And then you have to prepare for the licensing process; for it is above that of RN. You could easily be 7 -9 year process to obtained an advanced practice degree and licensure. Plus the anesthetists programs are expensive, as are many NP programs.

If medicine is what you want, then what find work like njbmd is talking about and focus on doing well in all your coursework and developing a great application for med school. Nursing is very much its own field, and it can be very demanding, depending upon the particular field/area you work and the kind of facility to work in. Inner city, university setting hospitals can be very demanding on many levels. And as I already stated, you will be expected to pay your dues and then some. You will already have to pay a huge load of dues in medicine.

I'd say only go for nursing undergrad if it truly interests you. Otherwise get another degree you would enjoy and do well in it and the pre-reqs for med school and the rest of your application requirements.

The people that tend to do well in medicine after being nurses are those that have been in the field of nursing in acute or critical care for a substantial period of time--strong hours and areas of clinical practice.

Clinically the RN benefit is negated in my view if you are in that novice to basically competent point in your nursing career. Those that have developed a serious level of expertise in acute or critical care are in a stronger position for medicine in my view. Of course a lot of that depends on the individual as well.

But people really shouldn't go into nursing unless it truly interests them, period. RNs are not getting paid between $50,000 and $80,000 ish just to be glorified nursing assistants. It's not like that. There's a lot more to it. And there are risks and liability issues as well.

 

[jl lin]

Hello, I am an RN and was accepted to several DO schools for the class of 2012. I graduated in '01 with a BS in Biology and then graduated as an RN in '07. When I started as a nursing student, I did not have any medical experience and I was thinking about doing an NP degree but wasn't sure what route I was going to go.

I'm sorry I don't understand this ^. First, if you were accepted for the class of 2012, you'd be in your second year of medical school now, right? 2008-2012--four years of med school right?

Second, if you graduated with the prof nurse degree and were licensed in 2007, that would not have given you much time at all to gain nursing experience; since again, you would have applied before the Fall 2008 term. ??? If you were lucky, you may have gotten maybe a year of full-time if that. No much and no where near enough to be past novice by most standards. I'm just saying. . .

How would that have helped you in terms of medical school? I'm a bit confused with the timeline.

 

[gocatgo]

^ what this person said. Also, here in CA, the hiring freeze has also affected the new grads coming out of nursing programs---BSN, 2-years associates--no one is hiring these new grads right now. It is bad over here in CA, I can't say for the other states though. and if there are openings for new grads at the hospitals, there are typically 300-plus candidates applying for like 20 positions. Some of my friends who graduated from nursing school a year ago are still unemployed. I advised them to move to other states like Michigan and then return to CA after they have 2 years of strong med-surg nursing experience under their belt. Job market is over-saturated here, seems like all the RNs want to come here to work and who can blame them? better nurse-patient ratio, good weather.

 

[NTF]

argh! argh! brains! brains!

 

[jl lin]

argh! argh! brains! brains!

Huh?

 

[NTF]

Huh?

Sorry. My bad imitation of a zombie cuz this thread was necrobumped from 2008.

 

[Nasrudin]

Sorry. My bad imitation of a zombie cuz this thread was necrobumped from 2008.

Nah. Bro. That's my bad see. I was laughin and I didn't get it. Now I'm laughing because I get it.

I think that means I'm....touched. In the mentals.


But for real. Your spittin some mad sdn lingo for an old dude. Necrobumped. Sweet. Keep me up on it. I can't even text.

 

[QofQuimica]

I'm sorry I don't understand this ^. First, if you were accepted for the class of 2012, you'd be in your second year of medical school now, right? 2008-2012--four years of med school right?

Second, if you graduated with the prof nurse degree and were licensed in 2007, that would not have given you much time at all to gain nursing experience; since again, you would have applied before the Fall 2008 term. ??? If you were lucky, you may have gotten maybe a year of full-time if that. No much and no where near enough to be past novice by most standards. I'm just saying. . .

How would that have helped you in terms of medical school? I'm a bit confused with the timeline.

Check the date that friolenta made the post, and all will become clear.

 

[jl lin]

Wow. I didn't even look at the date from the post to which I responded.

Still don't see how a year or less of nursing gives you all that much clinical experience--I mean perhaps in a general way and in terms of some experiences. Even if you are quick, it takes a while to develop serious clinical insight and judgment--but I truly acknowledge that everyone is an individual. I was able to pick up on certain things quickly after first becoming a RN, and I think, at least in part, it was b/c my mother was a strong ED nurse. So, not only did she routinely take work home with her, she brought me into the EDs she worked. The docs and nurses she worked with were very cool. Everyone was pretty close. They took me under their wings and showed me things.


For some reason it seemed like people worked together as more of a team with all the unnecessary drama and competitive stuff back then. I've worked in some places where people work well together, truly, like I described. When you work in other places that aren't like that, you really miss it--the people--the sense of productiveness--and having each others' backs--and doing a great job without all the BS.


To continue for a second on this OT note. . .Well, talk about dream jobs. This is part of the dream job experience for me--working together with people that are truly supportive and not into drama and ridiculous competition--just mostly there for the patients and to do a good job! I've worked in a number of places where I've wondered, "Will I ever have that with a group of people again?"

It seems like so many people today are utterly drama happy, if not totally drama dependent. Seems to me that healthcare, especially in acute or critical areas, has enough of it's own innate drama--no need to add to it within the teams. OK, my digression is done now. Just need to vent a little!

 

[jl lin]

Check the date that friolenta made the post, and all will become clear.

Yep. Also, usually people update their info to read "medical student" or "MS1, 2. . ."

The other part of my question is not clearl however. It's really hard to get strong clinical nursing experience in a year or less. But I guess it may be enough for his or her application. . .I don't know. Just doesn't give you enough time to build the clinical judgment and stuff. But the person's goal ended up as med school, so . . .

 

[QofQuimica]

Yep. Also, usually people update their info to read "medical student" or "MS1, 2. . ."

The other part of my question is not clearl however. It's really hard to get strong clinical nursing experience in a year or less. But I guess it may be enough for his or her application. . .I don't know. Just doesn't give you enough time to build the clinical judgment and stuff. But the person's goal ended up as med school, so . . .

People do update their info if they continue posting on SDN, but my guess is that this person stopped posting after starting med school. That's not so uncommon, unfortunately.

As for whether one can get strong nursing experience within a year, I will have to defer to your judgment on that.

 

[mooshika]

As a member of two admissions committees, I can tell you that we DON'T care about people moving from nursing to medicine in terms of loss of a nurse. What we DO care about is your suitability for the study of medicine. That being said, if you are anticipating that you NEED to go into nursing for financial reasons, you are likely to encounter a huge number of problems in terms of the pursuit of medicine (financial reasons).

Can you please explain? I don't quite get what you mean by this. Thanks.

m.

 

[mooshika]

It is nobody's business, especially that of a medical school admission committee, that you might want to work as an RN before or during your medical school experience. They would like to make it their business, but you are free to do with your time as you will, and if you are doing fine in your classes, working a few shifts here or there seems like a very practical idea to me. In fact it seems very smart indeed.

OF course if you wanted to teach MCAT courses, or tutor, or work as a lab assistant on some very important research while you are in med school this would be considered as how remarkably resourceful you are to help make ends meet.

But because it is nursing you are talking about, you will be interrogated and accused of being "confused" about what kind of profession you want to be in, even though you have taken all appropriate steps to apply, get in and start medical school. "oh help I'm so confused!"

Any other "job" would be considered as proof of your resourcefulness, but if it is working some shifts as an RN - everybody knows medical student aren't supposed to caught dead in a lowly nurses uniform if they are supposed to be DOCTORS. Come on!!!

Ignore them and keep it to yourself. You don't need their permission and you don't need to tell anyone, certainly not an ADCOM, many of whom still believe that nurses are there to wipe their foreheads and change bedpans.

 

[YasminTiara]

thanks for giving good information about nursing

 

[mooshika]

Agreed.

Go to nursing school to become a nurse. Don't do it because someone mentioned it might "look good" on a med school app.

Well sure, that is kind of knuckleheaded isn't it. If you area already half way there why not finish. I knew med school was in my plan after one semester out of a four semester program, but I finished for the obvious reason of I got to be working with patients and docs, getting paid better than a CNA, and most importantly, I NEEDED to show a good GPA post-bac and this was a very good way combined with the sciences I had to take in addition to the BSN/MSN curriculum. I also got to add a great graduate GPA and a very good post-bac GPA from an accelerated program at a competitive school. It helped me a lot.

Plus, now while I apply, I don't have to try to earn money temping or minimum wage in a lab or a med assistant in a doc office or something - I DO freelance as a writer but right now those jobs are scarce and can't depend on them - facing a large bill from AMCAS for this coming application cycle....!!!!

peace,
m.