nursing shortage article

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maceo

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090308/hl_nm/us_usa_nurses


this article claims there is a nursing shortage. My very basic question is (an danyone cananswer this one)

Why would in the midst of a nursing shortage (bedside nurses), expand the scope of practice for nurses for many of them to abandon nursing? THe very nurses we need? Bedside nurses. and obama is wrong. they are very well paid

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"Obama called nurses "the front lines of the healthcare system," adding: "They don't get paid very well. Their working conditions aren't as good as they should be."

They have a flexible and in demand job with an average income of 80k a year. That is all with less than 4 years of college. whats wrong with that?
 
"Obama called nurses "the front lines of the healthcare system," adding: "They don't get paid very well. Their working conditions aren't as good as they should be."

They have a flexible and in demand job with an average income of 80k a year. That is all with less than 4 years of college. whats wrong with that?


if they dont get paid very well, avg of 80K, with only a bachelor degree or master what about the Primary care doctors with a doctorate and 3-4 years of residency training and avg salary 130K.
 
"Obama called nurses "the front lines of the healthcare system," adding: "They don't get paid very well. Their working conditions aren't as good as they should be."

They have a flexible and in demand job with an average income of 80k a year. That is all with less than 4 years of college. whats wrong with that?

Some nurses get less than 4 years, some nurses do. Some nurses they don't get paid well... but wow to those bedside nurses who earn around 100K

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/any-bedside-nurses-164858.html

and less debt too, I would think.
 
if they dont get paid very well, avg of 80K, with only a bachelor degree or master what about the Primary care doctors with a doctorate and 3-4 years of residency training and avg salary 130K.

Yes but dems and Obama do not care about doctors because we do not have unions (the last bastion for communism). Also, as BlondDoc mentioned, since we tend to be business-minded capitalists, we mostly don't vote democratic.

Finally, the general public believes that nurses and PAs do all the work while doctors just make easy millions every year playing golf at their favorite country clubs. So Obama, being a typical politician, is playing whatever tune the audience wants to hear.
 
Finally, the general public believes that nurses and PAs do all the work while doctors just make easy millions every year playing golf at their favorite country clubs. So Obama, being a typical politician, is playing whatever tune the audience wants to hear.

And we can see how much confidence the country has in Obama, - zero. That is why daily the stock market drops - nobody has confidence in his actions or plans.

I have had many people over the last few years joking ask me about medical school requiring courses in playing golf or some other such nonsense - its said somewhat jokingly, but it does reflect the image of a doctor out of the golf course drinking and playing golf while a nurse slaves on, dripping with sweat and so fatigued she has to hold on to something for physical support to grind away one more hour tending to the sick and wounded.

if they dont get paid very well, avg of 80K, with only a bachelor degree or master what about the Primary care doctors with a doctorate and 3-4 years of residency training and avg salary 130K.

Obviously you aren't listening to MacGillGrad - an MD is only a trumped up bachelors degree. - just ask MacGillGrad
 
I would highly suggest obama and his family or whoever support socialize medicine to seek help from nurses ,PA, or whatever, except doctors when tehy are sick or in need of surgeries or in emergency.
 
an MD is only a trumped up bachelors degree. - just ask MacGillGrad


why does it take 11years to start practicing then?

what bachelors degree takes 11 years to earn?
 
why does it take 11years to start practicing then?

what bachelors degree takes 11 years to earn?

Ask MacGillGrad, he is the expert on this
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090308/hl_nm/us_usa_nurses


this article claims there is a nursing shortage. My very basic question is (an danyone cananswer this one)

Why would in the midst of a nursing shortage (bedside nurses), expand the scope of practice for nurses for many of them to abandon nursing? THe very nurses we need? Bedside nurses. and obama is wrong. they are very well paid

Very good point. The pearson article which argues that DNP's ought to be given preference as PCP's over any FMG's and IMGs, gives as one of its main reasons : letting FMG's into this country robs other countries of its doctors. In similar vein it can be argued that letting DNP's into PCP positions robs this country of nurses.
 
if they dont get paid very well, avg of 80K, with only a bachelor degree or master what about the Primary care doctors with a doctorate and 3-4 years of residency training and avg salary 130K.

Makes you wonder if all the extra years of education while sacrificing away your precious time and energy is really worth a measly extra 50K a year??? NOT!

And the reason nursing pay is so high is because quite frankly nursing sucks. Not as bad as being a primary care practitioner, when you factor in the pay, but it still sucks. People are not stupid. If nursing was so wonderful their would never have been a shortage in the first place. Nursing is no cush office job where you can go online and surf ebay or take hour long lunch breaks with coworkers. The days can be backbreaking where you are on your feet all day carrying really sick patients and the crap can hit the fan at any moment. Plus they have to deal with pompous docs chewing them out all day and dealing with the annoying families of patients. I concede nurses work their asses off and feel their pay is appropriate. What is inappropriate is how narrow the gap is between nursing and physician salaries but that is a whole other thread in and of itself.
 
Makes you wonder if all the extra years of education while sacrificing away your precious time and energy is really worth a measly extra 50K a year??? NOT!

And the reason nursing pay is so high is because quite frankly nursing sucks. Not as bad as being a primary care practitioner, when you factor in the pay, but it still sucks. People are not stupid. If nursing was so wonderful their would never have been a shortage in the first place. Nursing is no cush office job where you can go online and surf ebay or take hour long lunch breaks with coworkers. The days can be backbreaking where you are on your feet all day carrying really sick patients and the crap can hit the fan at any moment. Plus they have to deal with pompous docs chewing them out all day and dealing with the annoying families of patients. I concede nurses work their asses off and feel their pay is appropriate. What is inappropriate is how narrow the gap is between nursing and physician salaries but that is a whole other thread in and of itself.

100% agree with you.
 
Makes you wonder if all the extra years of education while sacrificing away your precious time and energy is really worth a measly extra 50K a year??? NOT!
The answer is unequivacally NO. It aint worth the 50 k extra. for all the hassle that you have to go through from jumpstreet. **** that.
 
I've made many friends outside of med school during my 4 years in my particular city. After about a year of being here 2 of them decided to become RNs. Since they already had bachelor's degrees, they were able to apply to and finish their 18 month RN course while I'm plodding through school. They work 3 days/week (that leaves 4 days/week to get over any crap they experience). They got $8K signing bonuses, plus a finders bonus for referring their friend to work for the same place (which they split). I must admit that I am kinda jealous. Just this last week they opined that I really had a miserable lot in life, because they'll be making much more than me for while I complete my residency, but will work much, much less. If my outlook on life wasn't so long term, I might be depressed.
 
I've made many friends outside of med school during my 4 years in my particular city. After about a year of being here 2 of them decided to become RNs. Since they already had bachelor's degrees, they were able to apply to and finish their 18 month RN course while I'm plodding through school. They work 3 days/week (that leaves 4 days/week to get over any crap they experience). They got $8K signing bonuses, plus a finders bonus for referring their friend to work for the same place (which they split). I must admit that I am kinda jealous. Just this last week they opined that I really had a miserable lot in life, because they'll be making much more than me for while I complete my residency, but will work much, much less. If my outlook on life wasn't so long term, I might be depressed.

Long term to the point that Obama has his way with health care reform?
 
if they dont get paid very well, avg of 80K, with only a bachelor degree or master what about the Primary care doctors with a doctorate and 3-4 years of residency training and avg salary 130K.


Let's get our facts straight: RNs do NOT make 80k a year. That's ridiculous. According to PayScale.com, a new nurse makes an average of 45k and a nurse with 20 years experience doesn't even earn 60k. The Department of Labor says, "Median annual earnings of registered nurses were $57,280 in May 2006."

So don't make up numbers. On a related nursing issue, I'm against the DNP, and ultimately making up false numbers about RNs makes us look like we're the ones spreading false propaganda.
 
Let's get our facts straight: RNs do NOT make 80k a year. That's ridiculous. According to PayScale.com, a new nurse makes an average of 45k and a nurse with 20 years experience doesn't even earn 60k. The Department of Labor says, "Median annual earnings of registered nurses were $57,280 in May 2006."

So don't make up numbers. On a related nursing issue, I'm against the DNP, and ultimately making up false numbers about RNs makes us look like we're the ones spreading false propaganda.

thank you for your participation in the forum, LOL. but i didnt make up the numbers, they were taken from the article, if you read it!!!

copy and paste from the article:

"PAY DIFFERENCES

One reason for the faculty squeeze is that a nurse with a graduate degree needed to teach can earn more as a practicing nurse, about $82,000, than teaching, about $68,000".


On a side note, where Im doing my residency NEW nurses make more than 3 year residents. They start at 56,000. In on the Northeast.
 
thank you for your participation in the forum, LOL. but i didnt make up the numbers, they were taken from the article, if you read it!!!

Exactly, read the article. A nurse with a graduate degree can earn 80k. You suggested that's the average salary for those with a bachelor's education.

if they dont get paid very well, avg of 80K, with only a bachelor degree or master

This is clearly not the average salary for most RNs. There are very few nurses with an MSN or who are certified in anesthesiology as compared to a normal BSN.

On a side note, where Im doing my residency NEW nurses make more than 3 year residents. They start at 56,000. In on the Northeast.

That's great that you have anecdotal stories of how much nurses make. But if you look at the Department of Labor and other outlets for national trends you'll find your one experience is not typical of the entire country.

I'm on your side here. I'm not saying that nurses have it rough. They don't. My point is, unlike the DNP supporters, we can win this one with the truth. So let's use nationally confirmed statistics in our debate to give ourselves more credibility and not confuse salaries of normal nurses (RNs) who are the majority of the workforce with RN/MSNs/CRNAs who are the minority.

Taking the average pay from higher trained nurses, such as MSNs or nurse anesthesiologists, and applying it to all nurses is not honest. We can successfully argue our point without being deceptive.
 
Let's get our facts straight: RNs do NOT make 80k a year. That's ridiculous. According to PayScale.com, a new nurse makes an average of 45k and a nurse with 20 years experience doesn't even earn 60k. The Department of Labor says, "Median annual earnings of registered nurses were $57,280 in May 2006."

So don't make up numbers. On a related nursing issue, I'm against the DNP, and ultimately making up false numbers about RNs makes us look like we're the ones spreading false propaganda.

A new nurse PERSONALLY told me how much she made.. a few years ago. seriously. She said she started at 39 an hour
 
RN's anywhere in the entire SF Bay Area pretty easily make more than 100k doing 3-12's a week. No overtime necessary. That's from the ratios and union activism mostly. I graduated w/BSN in 2005 and back then made 105,000 my first year out w/maybe 1 or 2 OT shifts a month. If that...
It's true there are HUGE regional differences but most any major metro area will end up offering salaries in line w/the article. I went to that payscale site--way off. But the sad thing is there are so still so many rural and (mostly) southern areas where they make squat AND have to handle 8-10 complex pts each. F---that. And they do have it very tough. It's ridiculous to not understand why there might be a shortage. (Not of licensed nurses, of course, we already have plenty of those. Just not enough who'll put up w/the conditions that exist out there and so choose not to practice) I could never do it but bless 'em for trying. I sometimes wonder why there are those who assume nurses must not be too bright, simply by virtue of job title. This was my second bachelor's and I do know exactly what the average FP doc makes around here. It'd drive me nuts too and I don't blame em for being pissed. I'm just glad I did my homework.
 
Nurses at San Francisco general earn easily over 80K.

You're using San Francisco as a representative of the entire country? Wow, hard to argue with you there :D

A new nurse PERSONALLY told me how much she made.. a few years ago. seriously. She said she started at 39 an hour

What good does lobbing anecdotal evidence into the discussion do? Stop emulating the DNP-supporters and go with the facts!

Just go by the national stats (the median, not the mean) and the argument is made. Let's not meet their propaganda with more propaganda.
 
I sometimes wonder why there are those who assume nurses must not be too bright, simply by virtue of job title. This was my second bachelor's and I do know exactly what the average FP doc makes around here. It'd drive me nuts too and I don't blame em for being pissed. I'm just glad I did my homework.[/QUOTE]

not that nurses are not bright, it's just that the nursing programs don't comprised of vigorous medical knowledge and training as MD programs. that's why there are difference in title RN vs MD.
 
not that nurses are not bright, it's just that the nursing programs don't comprised of vigorous medical knowledge and training as MD programs. that's why there are difference in title RN vs MD.

Yes, you can have a smart guy digging ditches - but his lack of rigorous education makes him a poor comparison to an MD. Who knows, with the salary of nurses rivaling Donald Trumps they may be "smarter" but their education is not the same - they are not medical doctors and especially are not "medical doctors plus" as Mundinger or Mudslinger or whatever tries to portray
 
RN's anywhere in the entire SF Bay Area pretty easily make more than 100k doing 3-12's a week. No overtime necessary. That's from the ratios and union activism mostly. I graduated w/BSN in 2005 and back then made 105,000 my first year out w/maybe 1 or 2 OT shifts a month. If that...
It's true there are HUGE regional differences but most any major metro area will end up offering salaries in line w/the article. I went to that payscale site--way off. But the sad thing is there are so still so many rural and (mostly) southern areas where they make squat AND have to handle 8-10 complex pts each. F---that. And they do have it very tough. It's ridiculous to not understand why there might be a shortage. (Not of licensed nurses, of course, we already have plenty of those. Just not enough who'll put up w/the conditions that exist out there and so choose not to practice) I could never do it but bless 'em for trying. I sometimes wonder why there are those who assume nurses must not be too bright, simply by virtue of job title. This was my second bachelor's and I do know exactly what the average FP doc makes around here. It'd drive me nuts too and I don't blame em for being pissed. I'm just glad I did my homework.

Just to support your anecdotal evidence of salary (not that you'd be making it up), I have a buddy who is an ED nurse in the bay area who makes 73/hr for overnight shifts that are 8 hrs long. He's been working for a couple years now, but he drives a porsche 911 and pays his parents' mortgage of over 4500 a month (he lives w/ them though). He does only take 1 day off every 10 days or so, but he rarely does overtime, where he gets paid 1.5X salary for going over 8 hrs, and 2X salary for going over 12 hrs. I was definitely :eek: and very envious after hearing of his income.
 
Let's get our facts straight: RNs do NOT make 80k a year. That's ridiculous. According to PayScale.com, a new nurse makes an average of 45k and a nurse with 20 years experience doesn't even earn 60k. The Department of Labor says, "Median annual earnings of registered nurses were $57,280 in May 2006."

So don't make up numbers. .

I was only commenting on this part. I was amused that one would speak(post) with such authority and yet be a wee bit misinformed. Don't get me wrong, many nurses are still woefully underpaid but a definitive they do NOT was just funny. Ridiculous even.;)

I generally agree with the prevailing wisdom here regarding the advent of the DNP and rarely bother with those threads. There are a few regular nurse posters on here and you'll find the majority agree with the valid criticisms regarding it. I find IRL there's also not the inflammatory statements thrown around a la Mundinger, it's just a different and more collegial vibe out there. The adversarial hysteria is much minimized IMO.
Did you ever notice that the majority, if not all, of the more provocative DNP=MD rhetoric comes from a singular grating source. If not, she's at least the favored voice for ire on SDN. Are there any others? I know there must be, right? The nursing masses didn't appoint her to speak for all. I find her annoying as hell. I think most are just thinking, "Damn, I wanted to be(or am already) an NP and we were doing just fine with the MSN. Why besides more $$$ for the unis are we doing this again?" It's not like everyone got to vote on adding another year of school to do pretty much the exact same job for what will likely be the exact same pay. Most would probably welcome additional education and certainly if there were more truly clinically focused programs then I'd be more on board. But the take away is this, it's not a personal choice to DNP or not DNP where one would walk away from their chosen career path because it unexpectedly grew a bit longer. You make your lemonade. If they suddenly extended residency+1 for everyone I'm fairly sure you wouldn't quit on priniciple. Eh, whatever....it is what it is.

The shortage topic is interesting to me though and increased advanced practice opportunity will be to the detriment of the bedside. The conditions ARE deplorable for RN's out there(and remember this is coming from a relatively well paid source)and it will be increasingly difficult to keep people there where needed most. Those that can and choose to do so will move up and away and the most promising potential students will llikely choose another path and avoid this particular drama from the get go.
Best!


ETA: Hmm BGriffin... Me, ER NOC 12 hr, $63+varied diff...Good times!Sadly, still not worth it believe it or not.
 
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Let's get our facts straight: RNs do NOT make 80k a year. That's ridiculous. According to PayScale.com, a new nurse makes an average of 45k and a nurse with 20 years experience doesn't even earn 60k. The Department of Labor says, "Median annual earnings of registered nurses were $57,280 in May 2006."

So don't make up numbers. On a related nursing issue, I'm against the DNP, and ultimately making up false numbers about RNs makes us look like we're the ones spreading false propaganda.

You are clueless. Clearly. Sorry, hope you know that.

RNs can easily pick up overtime and if they run enough hours in the ER like we do as physicians they can make the salary of a starting pediatrician/FM. Seen the filed taxes personally. Don't kid yourself.
 
According to Salary.com a "Staff Nurse - RN" in SF makes between
25% 68K
75% 82K

Mind you, this is SAN FRANCISCO, CA where the average FM makes
25% 172K
75% 227K

So what we're really talking about is more than 100K difference PER YEAR between an FM doc and a "staff nurse".

Nursing is tough work, and they earn their pay.

When docs treat nurses like crap, it's no wonder they want to move up and get a DNP. Wouldn't you?

I don't think there should be DNP's, but you've got to respect your nurses.
 
According to Salary.com a "Staff Nurse - RN" in SF makes between
25% 68K
75% 82K

Mind you, this is SAN FRANCISCO, CA where the average FM makes
25% 172K
75% 227K

So what we're really talking about is more than 100K difference PER YEAR between an FM doc and a "staff nurse".

Nursing is tough work, and they earn their pay.

When docs treat nurses like crap, it's no wonder they want to move up and get a DNP. Wouldn't you?

I don't think there should be DNP's, but you've got to respect your nurses.

I dont think lack of respect is the issue here. It is the old docs that were trained in a different era the one's that might be a little bit over there heads about treating nurses like crap. But I think the docs that are baby boomers and new docs now REALLY respect nurses for what they do which we know is not simple and can be a burden the majority of the time.

Either way, this doesnt take away the fact that a DNP is a mistake, this is a "doctorate" level education to improve the "clinical" aspect of a nurse but when you take a look at the curriculum there's 0-2 clinical classes in this new joke call DNP.

Again, respect is not the issue at hand here. 95% of docs respect nurses. Its only because of a 5% *****ic fanbase of old docs that we get a bad rap about this.
 
since we tend to be business-minded capitalists, we mostly don't vote democratic.

Recent polling is showing that MD's are actually trending R->D because of the anti-intellectual stances the Republican party has taken in recent elections (see: Sarah Palin, Joe the Plumber, anti-Stem Cell research, Intelligent Design in schools, etc etc etc. Just listen to Hannity or Rush or Ingraham or Coulter for an hour). Docs are educated people and the more Republicans show disdain for scientific education, the more disenchanted docs get.
 
The nursing shortage may simply be a symptom of attaching a stigma to 50% of the population if they pursue that career path. If that stigma were gone, men would pursue nursing degrees and the shortage would disappear.
 
There are lots of male nurses in my area...particular in the ER and OR.

Nursing has a shortage for the same reason there is a primary care physician shortage...hard job physically, mentally and emotionally and you don't always get treated well. Pay for RN's is pretty good, in general (as you can see from the salaries posted above). A beginning RN around here would make about as much as a resident, and that would be for probably working 36 hrs/week (as opposed to about twice that for a resident). An RN doing overtime would make >>a resident's salary. An RN making 80k would not be unusual, assuming she/he is either in administration, or has a master's, or is working some degree of extra shifts (i.e. >36 hrs/week).

I think if you want to do a fair salary comparison between primary care docs and floor nurses, need to compare the number of hours worked/week and then divide by the salary. Physicians do make more than RN's, but if you compared the salary/hr of a family doc or peds doc to a nurse with say 5-10 years experience and a BSN, they'd be a lot closer than you think.

We won't fix either the primary care doc or nursing shortages unless the working conditions are improved. It's not the $ that's keeping people away, though that's definitely a factor too on the MD side of the equatino (kind of silly for a graduating med student with 220k debt to choose the lowest paying specialties, which are basically all primary care, if he/she has other options that pay 40-100% more).
 
RNs can easily pick up overtime and if they run enough hours in the ER like we do as physicians they can make the salary of a starting pediatrician/FM. Seen the filed taxes personally. Don't kid yourself.

Let's don't talk overtime; let's talk base salary. Anyone can work their a**es off and make a great salary if they don't want a life. Four years ago I made $32 an hour in Hawaii and couldn't save a dime. A few years earlier I was making $25 in Texas.

When I was doing some psych clinical years ago, the psychologist sent this patient who made $40k a month out to talk with a man picking up coke bottles off the side of the road just so he could really see what life was about. Smart as the man was, he was dumb...and not very happy.

Sometimes digging a ditch is a great option. I've hired a hit man to kill me just in case I change my mind about going back to the bedside.
 
Nursing is no cush office job where you can go online and surf ebay or take hour long lunch breaks with coworkers.

hey random but I see this a lot in friends who get office jobs after a business/marketing degree; they sit in an office watching movies, doing internet stuff, etc then every once in a while make a phone call using social skills any normal person possesses. Yet they still think their job "sucks" cause they're not doing anything.. Why don't we reopen manufacturing in the States, prevent China from accumulating more of the US's deficit, use all this wasted manpower to reenter the production sector, use our expertise in R&D to design superior products and eventually turn a surplus?? All it requires is the reforming of thought patterns in a hundred million minds...
 
Not that their jobs aren't hard, but the nurses at my hospital spend an absurd amount of time on the internet...


I just had a vision of when I was doing night float covering 70 patients per nigth or admitting 14-20 pt when I was a second year and seeing the majority of nurses using the internet (shopping, reading the news) etc.

And they still have the balls to complain.
 
I am not a big fan of the whole DNP concept and I think physicians must act to stop the madness, but I must confess, if we are talking RNs, they deserve every penny they get. That job is no walk in the park.
 
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I just had a vision of when I was doing night float covering 70 patients per nigth or admitting 14-20 pt when I was a second year and seeing the majority of nurses using the internet (shopping, reading the news) etc.

And they still have the balls to complain.


not to mention the l and d nurses who sit around that desk in the middle and gossip and eat cake and donuts and all that **** they are such disgusting pigs.
 
I'm a new grad bachelor's RN in the Pacific NW and working 40 hours a week in a medical ICU I made nearly $70k my first year out of school.

My preceptor worked 4-5 days a week for the past several years and cleared $150k annually pre-taxes.

Blows my mind that I'm making more than the residents I work with who have 8 years education and work 30 hour shifts while making complex decisions in <3minutes while in the middle of placing central lines/art-lines.
Ahh, *&$^ it, I would rather make $40k a year, work 80hour weeks, and utilize the education I got from those hard-@$$ science classes (I took the 300-level's, not "chemistry and you", and "microbio: sauerkraut making 101") and be the one making decisions for my patients and doing the procedures than being the one prepping the patient and documenting blood pressures q5min.
Hence I'm applying to med school this summer...
There's much more to this game called life than salary.
 
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There's much more to this game called life than salary.

Agreed. Sometimes I think SDN should be renamed BDN, for B****ingDoctorsNetwork.
 
There's much more to this game called life than salary.

I agree with you, but not everyone in life has >250,000 student debt. you start working around you 30's. You have nurses creeping up on your job asking for more independence even though they trained to do another job. and you work more than 40 hours per week sacrificing family time.

Again, I agree salary is not the most important thing in life. But this career is much much different than other careers and you start in a pretty bad disadvantage.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090308/hl_nm/us_usa_nurses


this article claims there is a nursing shortage. My very basic question is (an danyone cananswer this one)

Why would in the midst of a nursing shortage (bedside nurses), expand the scope of practice for nurses for many of them to abandon nursing? THe very nurses we need? Bedside nurses. and obama is wrong. they are very well paid

I think that gives you an idea of what is nursing PRIMARY goal with this DNP thing. Is not to replace doctors in rural areas or help people have a primary care doctor because by doing this they are making the nurse shortage much worse and therefore hurting pt's in the area that they train to work at.

Its about money, money and money and the feeling of empowerment of been able to accomplish something they were not train for but either way they have been given the power to do so. And not to mention in a very easy way, that dnp degree is a JOKE.
 
I'm a new grad bachelor's RN in the Pacific NW and working 40 hours a week in a medical ICU I made nearly $70k my first year out of school.

My preceptor worked 4-5 days a week for the past several years and cleared $150k annually pre-taxes.

Blows my mind that I'm making more than the residents I work with who have 8 years education and work 30 hour shifts while making complex decisions in <3minutes while in the middle of placing central lines/art-lines.
Ahh, *&$^ it, I would rather make $40k a year, work 80hour weeks, and utilize the education I got from those hard-@$$ science classes (I took the 300-level's, not "chemistry and you", and "microbio: sauerkraut making 101") and be the one making decisions for my patients and doing the procedures than being the one prepping the patient and documenting blood pressures q5min.
Hence I'm applying to med school this summer...
There's much more to this game called life than salary.
you took those classes because you wanted to go to medical school. not because it was required of you.

You will soon feel much pain while in school you will wish for your cush days as a nurse making a good salary and having alife. you have to trust me on that one
 
not to mention the l and d nurses who sit around that desk in the middle and gossip and eat cake and donuts and all that ****

Lol laughed so hard when I read that :laugh:
 
Life is like a box of chocolates.

Many docs feel like their hands are tied financially. Its the system; thats how they keep you in the field. You will always have that student loan debt hanging over your head.

Imagine being 40 and still not paying off your debt while being an accomplished physician.

Says a lot about your society.
 
RN's anywhere in the entire SF Bay Area pretty easily make more than 100k doing 3-12's a week. No overtime necessary. That's from the ratios and union activism mostly. I graduated w/BSN in 2005 and back then made 105,000 my first year out w/maybe 1 or 2 OT shifts a month. If that...
It's true there are HUGE regional differences but most any major metro area will end up offering salaries in line w/the article. I went to that payscale site--way off. But the sad thing is there are so still so many rural and (mostly) southern areas where they make squat AND have to handle 8-10 complex pts each. F---that. And they do have it very tough. It's ridiculous to not understand why there might be a shortage. (Not of licensed nurses, of course, we already have plenty of those. Just not enough who'll put up w/the conditions that exist out there and so choose not to practice) I could never do it but bless 'em for trying. I sometimes wonder why there are those who assume nurses must not be too bright, simply by virtue of job title. This was my second bachelor's and I do know exactly what the average FP doc makes around here. It'd drive me nuts too and I don't blame em for being pissed. I'm just glad I did my homework.


Yeah, you could say that I make much less than I would if I lived in Cali, but my cost of living is much less. I don't thing I could afford a 2000 sq foot house on a 1/2 acre lot with a creek on a 60k salary in California, now could I? I would make MUCH more money, BUT I could not afford to live anywhere near as WELL as I do.

If you move from xxxxxxx to San Francisco, CA....
Salary=$114,085

Groceries will cost:
48%more


Housing will cost:
281%more


Utilities will cost:
13%less


Transportation will cost:
9%more


Healthcare will cost:
31%more


from
http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costofliving/costofliving.html

Make twice as much, but spend more than that for the same lifestyle, no thanks.
 
Not really clear what your point is....Kind of an entirely different conversation. The discussion was about the disparity between some nursing salaries and beginning FP doc pay and whether what can work out to be 'around' 50k was worth the extra 7-8 years of schooling. That's it.
Not particularly interested in the pathetic wages some people feel they're worth. But I do know how people love those comparison calculators. Beside housing, which is now coming back to reality obviously, those other numbers never correspond to reality. My loaf of bread and milk do not cost me 6bucks and you 4. They just don't. And the cost of healthcare? Hmmm..free medical(I would hope, anyway) on both sides so what it 'costs' is really irrelevant.
Whatever. I got my BSN out of state and the hospital I had clinicals in was starting RN pay at 16 something. My starting $$ here was 3x as much. Comcast, gas and ConEd there wasn't three times less than it is here but whatever. It's not a competition. That's fascinating that you feel that you live well. Congratulations.
 
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