Nutter Putters in the Program

[DoctorLion]

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So in the beginning of the semester I met a very interesting character: a 35 year old man from a foreign country who had suffered from depression as a teen. He moved to my city after his mother died. He and I have had long conversations about his mother and the fact that he feels she didn't give him enough love as a child. So anyway, he claims to have 'recovered' from his depression and wants to become a clinical psychologist so that he can 'help' people (using the same method that 'helped' him).

Apparently, before starting the psych program he went to South America where he was introduced to LSD, Ecstasy and some other hallucinogenic drug beginning with an "M". He has expressed to me on numerous occasions that he wishes to prescribe these drugs to patients (as a Psychologist!!). He even confessed that he has 'prescribed' these drugs to his ex-girlfriend and best friend recently. He even expressed interest in using LSD with me one day (I politely declined). He said that these drugs are 'consciousness enhancers' and they could help heal people from their 'darkness'. He told me that he would like to prescribe these drugs in combination with "Alien Cognitive techniques" that would help patients become connected to the 'source' of their cognition. To him, the 'source of human cognition" are alien space crafts hovering above the earth, controlling our minds.

This guy does extremely well in school. He has a 3.9 average. The problem is he's stark raving mad. I don't mean schizophrenic crazy (something totally out of one's control and you can sympathize with), I mean the kind of crazy where someone fully knows the difference between right and wrong, but chooses to do the wrong thing because they want to be a bastard. He's manipulative, has anger issues, likes to steal, lies and will pretty much tell you anything in order to get his way. The problem is that the teachers all like him!! Everyone who REALLY knows him, runs away like there is no tomorrow.

I feel extremely distressed that someone like him is in the program. I can only see him causing a lot of harm to the people he works with. And the scary thing is, It's a very REAL possibility that he will make it very far in the psychology field because he knows when to 'turn on the crazy". Has anyone else here ever come across wacky people in their psych program (especially PH.d)?

 

[bmedclinic]

Sounds like the type of thing you speak to a faculty member in confidence with whom you are close and determine if this is a "take it to the DCT" type of issue. It may be that the faculty are somewhat aware of his eccentricities. Either way, this is a very tough ethical question: one on hand, it's really not your business-- I cant turn in an old caustic supervisor just because I think her personality in itself negates nonmalficience, but on the other hand, if you have legitimate concern (as it sounds you do) perhaps taking it to a trusted faculty member in confidence is an acceptable route.

 

[erg923]

So in the beginning of the semester I met a very interesting character: a 35 year old man from a foreign country who had suffered from depression as a teen. He moved to my city after his mother died. He and I have had long conversations about his mother and the fact that he feels she didn't give him enough love as a child. So anyway, he claims to have 'recovered' from his depression and wants to become a clinical psychologist so that he can 'help' people (using the same method that 'helped' him).

Apparently, before starting the psych program he went to South America where he was introduced to LSD, Ecstasy and some other hallucinogenic drug beginning with an "M". He has expressed to me on numerous occasions that he wishes to prescribe these drugs to patients (as a Psychologist!!). He even confessed that he has 'prescribed' these drugs to his ex-girlfriend and best friend recently. He even expressed interest in using LSD with me one day (I politely declined). He said that these drugs are 'consciousness enhancers' and they could help heal people from their 'darkness'. He told me that he would like to prescribe these drugs in combination with "Alien Cognitive techniques" that would help patients become connected to the 'source' of their cognition. To him, the 'source of human cognition" are alien space crafts hovering above the earth, controlling our minds.

This guy does extremely well in school. He has a 3.9 average. The problem is he's stark raving mad. I don't mean schizophrenic crazy (something totally out of one's control and you can sympathize with), I mean the kind of crazy where someone fully knows the difference between right and wrong, but chooses to do the wrong thing because they want to be a bastard. He's manipulative, has anger issues, likes to steal, lies and will pretty much tell you anything in order to get his way. The problem is that the teachers all like him!! Everyone who REALLY knows him, runs away like there is no tomorrow.

I feel extremely distressed that someone like him is in the program. I can only see him causing a lot of harm to the people he works with. And the scary thing is, It's a very REAL possibility that he will make it very far in the psychology field because he knows when to 'turn on the crazy". Has anyone else here ever come across wacky people in their psych program (especially PH.d)?

Mescaline. Just think Johnny Depp's character (Hunter S. Thompson) in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Yes,he sounds like a jewel for the field....🙄

PS: Hippies smell.

 

[erg923]

So in the beginning of the semester I met a very interesting character: a 35 year old man from a foreign country who had suffered from depression as a teen. He moved to my city after his mother died. He and I have had long conversations about his mother and the fact that he feels she didn't give him enough love as a child. So anyway, he claims to have 'recovered' from his depression and wants to become a clinical psychologist so that he can 'help' people (using the same method that 'helped' him).

Apparently, before starting the psych program he went to South America where he was introduced to LSD, Ecstasy and some other hallucinogenic drug beginning with an "M". He has expressed to me on numerous occasions that he wishes to prescribe these drugs to patients (as a Psychologist!!). He even confessed that he has 'prescribed' these drugs to his ex-girlfriend and best friend recently. He even expressed interest in using LSD with me one day (I politely declined). He said that these drugs are 'consciousness enhancers' and they could help heal people from their 'darkness'. He told me that he would like to prescribe these drugs in combination with "Alien Cognitive techniques" that would help patients become connected to the 'source' of their cognition. To him, the 'source of human cognition" are alien space crafts hovering above the earth, controlling our minds.

This guy does extremely well in school. He has a 3.9 average. The problem is he's stark raving mad. I don't mean schizophrenic crazy (something totally out of one's control and you can sympathize with), I mean the kind of crazy where someone fully knows the difference between right and wrong, but chooses to do the wrong thing because they want to be a bastard. He's manipulative, has anger issues, likes to steal, lies and will pretty much tell you anything in order to get his way. The problem is that the teachers all like him!! Everyone who REALLY knows him, runs away like there is no tomorrow.

I feel extremely distressed that someone like him is in the program. I can only see him causing a lot of harm to the people he works with. And the scary thing is, It's a very REAL possibility that he will make it very far in the psychology field because he knows when to 'turn on the crazy". Has anyone else here ever come across wacky people in their psych program (especially PH.d)?

So, what would it take to convince you that he IS psychotic? 😉

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Sounds like the type of thing you speak to a faculty member in confidence with whom you are close and determine if this is a "take it to the DCT" type of issue. It may be that the faculty are somewhat aware of his eccentricities. Either way, this is a very tough ethical question: one on hand, it's really not your business-- I cant turn in an old caustic supervisor just because I think her personality in itself negates nonmalficience, but on the other hand, if you have legitimate concern (as it sounds you do) perhaps taking it to a trusted faculty member in confidence is an acceptable route.

I agree. We don't want to play thought/future police here, but it certainly sounds like there are legitimate ethical concerns (or the makings of later ethical issues), at least to the extent that would warrant talking with your advisor or another trusted faculty member. They'll likely have a better grasp on the intricacies of inter-departmental politics (e.g., the potential outcome or reaction could very well change based on whose student this person is) and what the best course of action, if anything, might be.

 

[wigflip]

the kind of crazy where someone fully knows the difference between right and wrong, but chooses to do the wrong thing because they want to be a bastard. He's manipulative, has anger issues, likes to steal, lies and will pretty much tell you anything in order to get his way.

The problem is that the teachers all like him!!

With my experience in academia, these two statements are probably related. If he bombs out of clin psych, there are plenty of other disciplines in which he'll fit like hand in glove.

 

[bob1234]

It's hard to knock a drug that you haven't used or know much about. Based on your reality and your perception of the norm, he is quite strange or maybe even threatening to you. During the 60-70s psychotropics were used for therapy, especially with soldiers coming back with PTSD. After "the war on drugs" these files were closed of course. More recently MDMA is being used on soldiers returning with PTSD who aren't responding to other therapies. These are small studies, it is not common, hence your reaction.

You have a therapeutic disagreement and you want to report him to the dean? I would mind my own business or pull some literature and have a real debate with him.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You have a therapeutic disagreement and you want to report him to the dean? I would mind my own business or pull some literature and have a real debate with him.

The OP stated that the student in question wanted to prescribe illegal drugs to people. If that is the case...he is not a licensed prescriber, the drugs in question are illegal, and the stated use of these drugs are not an accepted treatment intervention. I'd be hard-pressed to identify a non-sexual ethical situation that would be more harmful to a patient than the above scenario.

Ps. I am familiar with at least some of the research surrounding the use of MDMA for Tx of PTSD....it still doesn't make it safe, ethical, or legal.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It's hard to knock a drug that you haven't used or know much about. Based on your reality and your perception of the norm, he is quite strange or maybe even threatening to you. During the 60-70s psychotropics were used for therapy, especially with soldiers coming back with PTSD. After "the war on drugs" these files were closed of course. More recently MDMA is being used on soldiers returning with PTSD who aren't responding to other therapies. These are small studies, it is not common, hence your reaction.

You have a therapeutic disagreement and you want to report him to the dean? I would mind my own business or pull some literature and have a real debate with him.

I can't speak for the OP, but I would say it wasn't the personal psychotropic experimentation that worried me most (although his stated desire to potentially practice outside the scope of both his professional competency and legal bounds by "prescribing" these substances to his patients is very worriesome; edit: and T4C beat me to that). Rather, it was this bit that caught my eye:

He's manipulative, has anger issues, likes to steal, lies and will pretty much tell you anything in order to get his way.

If he's done these things in the program (particularly stealing and lying), and/or his anger issues have arisen with patients, then yes, I'd say it's possibly worth discussing with the DCT, or at least the poster's advisor. The bit about feeling as though our thoughts are controlled by aliens hovering in spacecraft above the earth also raises a bit of a red flag, but that's just me.

 

[erg923]

It's hard to knock a drug that you haven't used or know much about. Based on your reality and your perception of the norm, he is quite strange or maybe even threatening to you. During the 60-70s psychotropics were used for therapy, especially with soldiers coming back with PTSD.

The 60s aint never comin back, man. Its illegal, unethical, and obviously, not anywhere close to standard of care. If he cant/wont understand that, then that is a problem.

I would suggest that ideology is threatening to patients, and by proxy, to the field as a whole, yes.

I would also suggest you read some of the lit of confronting impaired practitioners/grad students.

 

[erg923]

It's hard to knock a drug that you haven't used or know much about.

To quote John Bender from The Breakfast Club: "Well, I don't know any lepers either, but I'm not gonna run out and join one of their ****ing clubs." 🙄

 

[roubs]

Results from Tuesday night suggest the 60s may actually be coming back..except as grown-ups with suits and marijuana taxation and DUI regulations.

 

[Pragma]

Results from Tuesday night suggest the 60s may actually be coming back..except as grown-ups with suits and marijuana taxation and DUI regulations.

 

[DoctorLion]

So, what would it take to convince you that he IS psychotic? 😉

When I think of the word "psychotic" I picture:
1) Someone with extremely disorganized thinking and speech patterns...
2) Someone who is potentially a danger to himself and others...

One of two criteria doesn't exactly cut it... Or does it? I don't know...😕

 

[erg923]

When I think of the word "psychotic" I picture:
1) Someone with extremely disorganized thinking and speech patterns...
2) Someone who is potentially a danger to himself and others...

One of two criteria doesn't exactly cut it... Or does it? I don't know...😕

So, (bizarre) delusions of control aren't a symptom of psychosis to you?

"Psychotic" isn't a disorder. Its the behavioral description of being out of touch with reality.

 

[ResearchGirlie]

When I think of the word "psychotic" I picture:
1) Someone with extremely disorganized thinking and speech patterns...
2) Someone who is potentially a danger to himself and others...

One of two criteria doesn't exactly cut it... Or does it? I don't know...😕

Not all people with psychosis are a danger to themselves or others.

Psychosis to me = delusions and/or hallucinations

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

So, (bizarre) delusions of control aren't a symptom of psychosis to you?

"Psychotic" isn't a disorder. Its the behavioral description of being out of touch with reality.

This wording is somewhat ironic bc many are claiming that the DSM-V committee is also out of touch with the realities of clinical practice. Given what I have read about the changes that are being considered, I am not totally shocked by this claim.

 

[Pragma]

This wording is somewhat ironic bc many are claiming that the DSM-V committee is also out of touch with the realities of clinical practice. Given what I have read about the changes that are being considered, I am not totally shocked by this claim.

Well if all it takes is being out of touch with reality, can we add most politicians to the psychotic list? Plus...they actually are dangerous (while many folks with delusions and hallucinations are not...)

 

[erg923]

This wording is somewhat ironic bc many are claiming that the DSM-V committee is also out of touch with the realities of clinical practice. Given what I have read about the changes that are being considered, I am not totally shocked by this claim.

Would you prefer "impaired reality testing"

Here is the medical/psychiatric community's definition:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/

 

[DoctorLion]

So, (bizarre) delusions of control aren't a symptom of psychosis to you?

"Psychotic" isn't a disorder. Its the behavioral description of being out of touch with reality.

I am under the impression that someone who has psychosis probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between reality and fantasy. This guy seems to know that most people do not support his ideas about alien mind control, therefore he takes great effort to hide his ideas from people who are not close to him. This suggests to me a fair grasp of reality... Unless of course there are varying degrees of psychosis (i.e. mild psychosis vs oh-my-god psychosis)...

I just think he has some personality disorders (with some magical thinking sprinkled on top...) He's constantly seeking attention from people and when someone doesn't demonstrate that they like him he immediately demonizes that person. He even went so far as to destroy one of his ex-friend's files on a shared recorder because he wasn't spending enough time with him. He's incredibly sensitive to criticism and ended a friendship with another guy because his friend described him as being "too stubborn". When I was helping him to correct an essay he had written, he became enraged. He even threatened to stop talking to me all because I wouldn't sit there and complement him on his work.

 

[DoctorLion]

It's hard to knock a drug that you haven't used or know much about. Based on your reality and your perception of the norm, he is quite strange or maybe even threatening to you. During the 60-70s psychotropics were used for therapy, especially with soldiers coming back with PTSD. After "the war on drugs" these files were closed of course. More recently MDMA is being used on soldiers returning with PTSD who aren't responding to other therapies. These are small studies, it is not common, hence your reaction.

You have a therapeutic disagreement and you want to report him to the dean? I would mind my own business or pull some literature and have a real debate with him.

You're right. I don't know much about LSD or MDMA, so I won't criticize LICENSED PRACTITIONERS who prescribe these treatments or the patients who receive it. He is strange and threatening to me because he's running around telling (and supplying!!) people who are going through difficult periods of their life) with LSD! And has tried to get me to use MDMA with him. His reason for encouraging me to use MDMA is that when he uses this drug, he likes to be with someone he likes because he tends to become 'super friendly' and wants to be around a girl who is 'super friendly' too... Meaning: using MDMA makes people feel sexual and he wants to be able to use this drug to get past my defenses so that I would sleep with him. To him, the fact that I am not attracted to him and have no interest in a relationship with him doesn't matter. If he can find a way to get what he wants, he will use it. Can you imagine all of the 'wonderful' things a man like this would do if given a license to practice psychology?!


Those poor patients...🙁

 

[bob1234]

You're right. I don't know much about LSD or MDMA, so I won't criticize LICENSED PRACTITIONERS who prescribe these treatments or the patients who receive it. He is strange and threatening to me because he's running around telling (and supplying!!) people who are going through difficult periods of their life) with LSD! And has tried to get me to use MDMA with him. His reason for encouraging me to use MDMA is that when he uses this drug, he likes to be with someone he likes because he tends to become 'super friendly' and wants to be around a girl who is 'super friendly' too... Meaning: using MDMA makes people feel sexual and he wants to be able to use this drug to get past my defenses so that I would sleep with him. To him, the fact that I am not attracted to him and have no interest in a relationship with him doesn't matter. If he can find a way to get what he wants, he will use it. Can you imagine all of the 'wonderful' things a man like this would do if given a license to practice psychology?!


Those poor patients...🙁

Sounds like a normal guy to me. Instead of sharing a drink or a smoke with you, he offered up another drug which has you on red alert. You did exactly what you had to by saying no to his advances and that is that.

 

[KillerDiller]

Sounds like a normal guy to me.

Normal guys sexually proposition their professional colleagues who haven't shown signs of interest?

 

[bob1234]

Normal guys sexually proposition their professional colleagues who haven't shown signs of interest?

Even been to a bar?

I'm not going there. This is an online forum, we haven't met the OP or the person in question. Sometimes you forgot about naivete of other people in the world. I'm not taking it any further

 

[G Costanza]

If we're looking to label this guy, 301.7 fits the bill off the top of my head. Not psychotic.

This is fun. Who else knows someone they don't like...🙄

 

[wigflip]

Normal guys sexually proposition their professional colleagues who haven't shown signs of interest?

+1
In many places, coercing someone with alcohol or other substances as a means of gaining sexual access constitutes a form of sexual assault.

 

[KillerDiller]

Even been to a bar?

I'm not going there. This is an online forum, we haven't met the OP or the person in question. Sometimes you forgot about naivete of other people in the world. I'm not taking it any further

Sure I've been to a bar. What does that have to do with how I interact with professional colleagues?

Yeah, ok, I'm clearly naive because I think that's it not ok to propose to prescribe illegal substances to clients (as a psychology trainee, no less) and attempt to gain sexual access to fellow grad students by promoting their substance use 🙄.

 

[loveoforganic2]

While we're on the secondhand diagnosing over the internet train, no one else's psychopath alarm is going off?

 

[DoctorLion]

Sounds like a normal guy to me. Instead of sharing a drink or a smoke with you, he offered up another drug which has you on red alert. You did exactly what you had to by saying no to his advances and that is that.

This isn't at all about myself. Him asking me to try an illegal substance wasn't the thing that bothered me. Its HOW he asked me and the fact that he decided to ask me AFTER I refused his advances and explicitly stated that I wanted to just remain friends. I'm not offended or shocked at all about the introduction of drugs in our conversations (this is the realworld). And I do not think that drug use makes someone crazy (if I did, then almost of half my university's student population would be insane to me with their excessive Adderall pill popping/ marijuana smoking because they can't sleep during exams behavior). I am just shocked that he would intentionally try to mislead me into using a drug (that causes you to have sexual feelings that you normally wouldn't) under the guise of 'harmless experimentation' so that he could have sexual access to me. How does doing that (as well as stealing other student's books and throwing angry fits when someone doesn't stop and say hello to him) make him a normal guy?

He even has other people writing his papers for him and has tried to trick me into writing his papers for him too (with him there to direct me of course!). After he had someone write up one of his papers, he spoke to me about it and criticised the guy calling him a "nerd" and stating how he would never normally be friends with someone like that because "nerds are so pathetic" (VERBATIM. WHT The guy spent hours helping him and he turns around and insults him?).

He clearly has an unsavory character. I just wish he wasn't so bright because I would hope that people like this wouldn't be able to make it into graduate school. Whenever we are around our profs, they're always gushing over him (one even raised his grade by 4 points just because he asked him). I feel like Chicken Boo. He's crazy and they can't see it!

 

[psychstudent5]

This isn't at all about myself. Him asking me to try an illegal substance wasn't the thing that bothered me. Its HOW he asked me and the fact that he decided to ask me AFTER I refused his advances and explicitly stated that I wanted to just remain friends. I'm not offended or shocked at all about the introduction of drugs in our conversations (this is the realworld). And I do not think that drug use makes someone crazy (if I did, then almost of half my university's student population would be insane to me with their excessive Adderall pill popping/ marijuana smoking because they can't sleep during exams behavior). I am just shocked that he would intentionally try to mislead me into using a drug (that causes you to have sexual feelings that you normally wouldn't) under the guise of 'harmless experimentation' so that he could have sexual access to me. How does doing that (as well as stealing other student's books and throwing angry fits when someone doesn't stop and say hello to him) make him a normal guy?

He even has other people writing his papers for him and has tried to trick me into writing his papers for him too (with him there to direct me of course!). After he had someone write up one of his papers, he spoke to me about it and criticised the guy calling him a "nerd" and stating how he would never normally be friends with someone like that because "nerds are so pathetic" (VERBATIM. WHT The guy spent hours helping him and he turns around and insults him?).

He clearly has an unsavory character. I just wish he wasn't so bright because I would hope that people like this wouldn't be able to make it into graduate school. Whenever we are around our profs, they're always gushing over him (one even raised his grade by 4 points just because he asked him). I feel like Chicken Boo. He's crazy and they can't see it!

Without question, you need to snitch. You need to speak about this to a professor in the dept that you trust. If not a professor, then perhaps an off-campus supervisor. Someone who can guide you in dealing with this person and have fruitful discussion with you about ethics.

All of what you described is completely unacceptable. You don't have to explicitly name the student, but you need to mention that certain behaviors you have noticed in the program makes you feel uncomfortable. This person is dangerous to clients, the field, and other students in the program. He sounds manipulative and exploitative. Who knows if he would try to harm to a client given that he's flat out told you that he's trying to drug you so you can have a sexual encounter with him.

And if anyone tries to make you feel crazy or dismisses you, do not forget them. Just keep them at a distance and/or maintain a superficial relationship with them so you cna graduate. Because anyone who hesitates to say this student is anything but unfit for the field is not worth their credentials.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

 

[erg923]

Who's that character who thinks he sounds "like a normal guy"?

Lets keep it real here, dude. All signs point to this gentlemen being quite mentally aberrant.

 

[becomethelight]

The 60s aint never comin back, man. Its illegal, unethical, and obviously, not anywhere close to standard of care. If he cant/wont understand that, then that is a problem.

I think this is an interesting viewpoint. It's unfortunate that some drugs get labeled as bad/harmful, whereas others have similarly harmful side effects but are seen more positively simply because they get labeled as "medicine." The 60s actually are making a comeback though, there are studies ongoing currently at Johns Hopkins about the therapeutic uses of psilocybin. In the 70s there was a fair amount of research showing the benefits of hallucinogens for the treatment of alcohol dependence, but that line of research was effectively squashed when Reagan decided to declare war on drugs.

 

[bob1234]

Who's that character who thinks he sounds "like a normal guy"?

Lets keep it real here, dude. All signs point to this gentlemen being quite mentally aberrant.

dude. ... pass the cheetos man

All joking aside, the person in question sounds like an *******. I don't think I would report him because I tend to mind my own business, but if you are going forward are you going to have any hard evidence? Do you think the dean will accept or initiate an investigation based on he said/she said as proof of his poor actions?

 

[erg923]

dude. ... pass the cheetos man

All joking aside, the person in question sounds like an *******. I don't think I would report him because I tend to mind my own business, but if you are going forward are you going to have any hard evidence? Do you think the dean will accept or initiate an investigation based on he said/she said as proof of his poor actions?

Yes. I do. It would start with the chair though, not the dean. We deal with this all the time in my department.

I take it you did not read any of the lit on dealing with impaired professionals or grad students or consult the APA ethics code given your "mind my own business" comment? This isn't the LAPD here pal, we don't turn a blind eye when we aren't up to par. In fact, its in our ethics code that NOT doing some is unethical.

 

[erg923]

I think this is an interesting viewpoint. It's unfortunate that some drugs get labeled as bad/harmful, whereas others have similarly harmful side effects but are seen more positively simply because they get labeled as "medicine." The 60s actually are making a comeback though, there are studies ongoing currently at Johns Hopkins about the therapeutic uses of psilocybin. In the 70s there was a fair amount of research showing the benefits of hallucinogens for the treatment of alcohol dependence, but that line of research was effectively squashed when Reagan decided to declare war on drugs.

Yes, yes, its a travesty of justice. Doesn't change the validity of any the facts I mentioned though.

 

[Occlumentia]

Is there something in the APA code of ethics about reporting colleagues who are acting in a way that threatens their professional competence? I'd be surprised if there wasn't. However, I also understand how in a small program it would be tricky to report someone.

I'd keep a log of all the inappropriate stuff that's been going on, and also get the other people affected (i.e. who've seen this guy for what he is) to do the same, with a view to have enough material to do something about getting this guy off the program.

 

[DoctorLion]

UPDATE:


The nutter putter is angry with me now and we are no longer talking. On friday morning during my lunch break he saw me and stopped to talk. After 5 minutes of peaceful conversation about how he was given $50 by a "rich" girl he knows and another 10 minutes of discussing how well he was doing and how wonderful he is, he flew into an angry rage. It started off by him asking me to help him with his paper. I politely declined and told him I was very busy. I could tell he was not pleased but he was trying to keep his composure. He then started to tell me how he really liked me but that I had a critical flaw. Apparently to him I am some sort of a "control freak" with my emotions (???). He then proceeded to tell me that I am "f*cking nuts", "crazy" because I refused to go out with him and wanted to just be friends. He then told me that I "want a man, but I don't want a REAL man". He became extremely enraged, started screaming (in public) at me incoherently about how I am not emotion, etc. I was so embarrassed and confused by him. He walked away from me angry and afterwards I sent him an email telling him basically that we should stop communication because I realize that our interactions are very stressful for him (and increasingly stressful for me). He responded but I just deleted his response without reading it. I really don't want to have anything to do with him anymore. I tried being nice, but he's just an extremely difficult personality.

So I decided that I will talk to one of the Profs about the nutter putter in my program. I'm not sure how I will go about doing it...I actually feel a little nervous. Do you think I should schedule a meeting with one of them? Or maybe just an email would do?

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Just to clarify, are you guys undergrads or grad students? I thought I remembered other posts where you indicated that you are in undergrad.

If he's not actually in grad school yet, it is much less of a worry. In that case, the only thing to think about is whether his behavior toward you constitutes harassment. If so, go through the appropriate channels at your university to report the harassment (and of course the police if things become dangerous).

Best,
Dr. E

 

[CheetahGirl]

Just to clarify, are you guys undergrads or grad students? I thought I remembered other posts from you indicating you are in undergrad.

If he's not actually in grad school yet, it is much less of a worry. In that case, the only thing to think about is whether his behavior toward you constitutes harassment. If so, go through the appropriate channels at your university to report the harassment (and of course the police if things become dangerous).

Best,
Dr. E

Thanks, Dr. E, for asking this question.

DoctorLion, just communicate with a professor if you are genuine fear of this individual. - don't worry about the method: call, email, knock on their door - whatever it takes to make you feel safe and supported in your studies.

With that said, the level of concern is more significant if you are talking about a nutter putter in an undergrad program versus a doctoral program (which is what this forum is aimed towards). MOST doctoral programs weed out the 'nutter putters' in the application process and this thread makes me question the judgement of your insititution. Going through doctoral training is quite stressful (highly stressful is many cases) and most admissions programs are good at detecting who will be able to endure it academically and psychologically.

I believe there's a Master's forum in Clinical Psych if you just want to chit chat about quacks studying psychology in master's or undergrad programs, but elevate the level of discussion here please. A posting about a combative colleague in doctoral program takes on such a different meaning if you're asking the opinions of folks who are in the same boat (like is he working with patients? does faculty know? why are clinical supervisors not attending to this individual? etc.). You could be tettering on asking psychological advice on how to handle your adjustment to a new academic setting, which is not commensurate with the doctoral forum.

I'm sure the MODs won't close this thread, but you could be wasting the time and focus of others on this particular forum by misleading the discussion.

I could also choose not to reply, but sometime threads can be interesting to follow when insomnia kicks in.😉

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Just to clarify, are you guys undergrads or grad students? I thought I remembered other posts where you indicated that you are in undergrad.

DoctorLion appears to be an undergraduate. Posted in another thread today:

I'm a little confused now...Psychiatrists don't give the same kind of care as Psychologists? I actually imagined that Psychiatrists would be like Psychologists with Rx privileges. So the average psychiatrist wouldn't conduct cognitive behavioural therapy, talk therapy, etc? They just listen to the complaint and hand out prescriptions??

So this thread is about two college students, NOT doctoral students...in the doctoral forum. There is another thread for B.A./M.A., etc. why was this posted here?

Edit: Considering, also, the level of description of this "nutter putter" student, it seems that privacy is not being protected--he could easily be identified if anyone knows him and reads this forum.

 

[DoctorLion]

To clarify:

I am an undergraduate and he is a graduate student (Ph.D Clinical). I often talk to the doctoral students in my school just to get a feel for the program as I really want to attend graduate school there. I understand that there is a difference between this thread and the B.A/M.A thread. I was thinking that since he is a graduate student It would be better to discuss the problem here... Am I wrong?

 

[DoctorLion]

DoctorLion appears to be an undergraduate. Posted in another thread today:


Edit: Considering, also, the level of description of this "nutter putter" student, it seems that privacy is not being protected--he could easily be identified if anyone knows him and reads this forum.

Well I haven't said what school we go to...Nor have I mentioned his physical description. I did say his age, that the student is male and that he is from a foreign country, but honestly... there are at least two Ph.D Clinical students that match this description in my school. So, I'm sure in North America the amount of people matching this description is pretty high. I don't think its fair to make that statement. I've been pretty careful about protecting his identity (though the cynical side of me wishes to expose him...sorry I know I'm a bad person 🙁 ).

 

[DoctorLion]

A posting about a combative colleague in doctoral program takes on such a different meaning if you're asking the opinions of folks who are in the same boat (like is he working with patients? does faculty know? why are clinical supervisors not attending to this individual? etc.).

Question 1) Yes.
Question 2) I don't think so. They all love him and dote on him! He has a vivacious personality and can make people think that he's really dedicated to his work. He often eludes to wanting to create a 'new' technique that would help patients. But what they don't realize he is talking about is the (Alien Cognitive Technique).
Question 3) They have no idea. He knows how to "turn off the crazy". I've seen it numerous time. We would be walking and having our typical bizarre conversations then a professor would stroll by and this guy would turn into a completely different person. This is the thing that really creeps me out about him. But I continued to talk to him honestly because I was in disbelief that someone so insane can actually become a psychologist!!!!

 

[psychstudent5]

To clarify:

I am an undergraduate and he is a graduate student (Ph.D Clinical). I often talk to the doctoral students in my school just to get a feel for the program as I really want to attend graduate school there. I understand that there is a difference between this thread and the B.A/M.A thread. I was thinking that since he is a graduate student It would be better to discuss the problem here... Am I wrong?

You are in the right place to discuss this. The fact that you are undergrad and he is a grad student makes it even worse. Dude is playing on the power dynamic in the relationship. He's behaving this way cause he probably figures you won't tell out of fear of limiting yourself (e.g. getting rec letters, getting opportunities in the lab or psych dept, getting accepted into their doctoral program).

 

[psychstudent5]

Well I haven't said what school we go to...Nor have I mentioned his physical description. I did say his age, that the student is male and that he is from a foreign country, but honestly... there are at least two Ph.D Clinical students that match this description in my school. So, I'm sure in North America the amount of people matching this description is pretty high. I don't think its fair to make that statement. I've been pretty careful about protecting his identity (though the cynical side of me wishes to expose him...sorry I know I'm a bad person 🙁 ).

You didn't reveal anything remotely enough to disclose his identity. We don't know where you go to school. We don't know what region the school is in. We don't know the make-up and number of students in the program. We don't know which year this student is in. There are a ton of unknowns in the description of this situation. Psychologists and grad students can be hypersensitive about ethics in the wrong situations.

 

[Pragma]

Well, aside from my thinking that if you are feeling really uncomfortable with these interactions, you are wise to end them, really what I am wondering is "what's a nutter putter?"

I have never ever heard this before.

Oh and as for the doctoral student - while it is likely that their behavior will catch up with them eventually, some form of formal report is not necessarily a bad idea. I doubt that much will happen to the student at this point. I'd suggest finding a faculty member, or perhaps discussing it with an academic advisor. They should know the chain of command to get the information to appropriate people. But just be aware - this guy does not seem like the type who would leave you alone if you do end up making a report. But according to what you have said, I am sure that his recent comments would fall under your institution's harassmant policies.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

You didn't reveal anything remotely enough to disclose his identity. We don't know where you go to school. We don't know what region the school is in. We don't know the make-up and number of students in the program. We don't know which year this student is in. There are a ton of unknowns in the description of this situation. Psychologists and grad students can be hypersensitive about ethics in the wrong situations.

With a small amount of investigation, someone in DoctorLion's program would probably know exactly who is being described--we have gender, age, specific personality traits, and could easily get regional info about DL from previous posts. Just because every person reading this wouldn't know who it is doesn't mean it's not private enough. If it were me, and I happened upon a description of myself to this extent on a forum, where my colleagues would be able to read about things I've said to other students, you bet your arse I'd be making a complaint or a lawsuit for libel. This isn't exactly the most flattering description of a person and appears to be likely to ruin one's career.

Regarding hypersensitivity about ethics? Please don't EVER be in a situation to give services to me or be in business with me...that's all I have to say. I want everyone around me to be hyper-uber-sensitive about ethics in every possible way.

 

[psychstudent5]

With a small amount of investigation, someone in DoctorLion's program would probably know exactly who is being described--we have gender, age, specific personality traits, and could easily get regional info about DL from previous posts. Just because every person reading this wouldn't know who it is doesn't mean it's not private enough. If it were me, and I happened upon a description of myself to this extent on a forum, where my colleagues would be able to read about things I've said to other students, you bet your arse I'd be making a complaint or a lawsuit for libel. This isn't exactly the most flattering description of a person and appears to be likely to ruin one's career.

Regarding hypersensitivity about ethics? Please don't EVER be in a situation to give services to me or be in business with me...that's all I have to say. I want everyone around me to be hyper-uber-sensitive about ethics in every possible way.

good grief. you need to calm down with your tone.

 

[Pragma]

good grief. you need to calm down with your tone.

How does one go about interpreting pitch over an internet forum? Sounds fascinating.