NYC EM job market

[chillaxbro]

I recently got an offer. New graduate.

$235k starting BE, 32 hours a week, ~45 weeks a year if you discount holidays, vacation, CME etc. all the usual benefits

I already knew NYC was low at baseline… but I was wondering how this compares to other places in NYC….

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[Kryptocoin]

I was offered $250k several yrs ago.

 

[Groove]

I recently got an offer. New graduate.

$235k starting BE, 32 hours a week, ~45 weeks a year if you discount holidays, vacation, CME etc. all the usual benefits

I already knew NYC was low at baseline… but I was wondering how this compares to other places in NYC….

$163.19/hr ugh. Why do you guys love NYC that much? Is it worth it? Hell, you’d make more living in a major city in California.

 

[GassYous]

I recently got an offer. New graduate.

$235k starting BE, 32 hours a week, ~45 weeks a year if you discount holidays, vacation, CME etc. all the usual benefits

I already knew NYC was low at baseline… but I was wondering how this compares to other places in NYC….

There are icu nurses making over 200/h and that would be almost 300k so...

 

[alpinism]

Yeah that's a typical salary for the big name Manhattan Hospitals.

I'm in Brooklyn and we pay roughly 300k full time academics.

 

[skougess]

$163.19/hr ugh. Why do you guys love NYC that much? Is it worth it? Hell, you’d make more living in a major city in California.

It’s not a career, it’s an “accessory” job to talk about at parties. The people who take these went to med school on mom and dad’s dime and have a large trust set for them. They want to live in Manhattan and have the money to do so with or without the job.

 

[GassYous]

It’s not a career, it’s an “accessory” job to talk about at parties. The people who take these went to med school on mom and dad’s dime and have a large trust set for them. They want to live in Manhattan and have the money to do so with or without the job.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

NYC fam med grads make 225-250 for like 4 days a week…

 

[deleted941485]

NYC fam med grads make 225-250 for like 4 days a week…

For a better work environment than the ED hopefully

 

[chillaxbro]

Yeah that's a typical salary for the big name Manhattan Hospitals.

I'm in Brooklyn and we pay roughly 300k full time academics.

Which hospital? How many hours per week? Brand new grad or have good work experience? Bonuses too? Benefits too or nah?

 

[Tenk]

It’s not a career, it’s an “accessory” job to talk about at parties. The people who take these went to med school on mom and dad’s dime and have a large trust set for them. They want to live in Manhattan and have the money to do so with or without the job.

Still doesn’t explain why anyone would want to live in NYC…

 

[GassYous]

Still doesn’t explain why anyone would want to live in NYC…

Lotta young hotties

that are looking for the bankers and other high net worth individuals

 

[Apollyon]

Still doesn’t explain why anyone would want to live in NYC…

People from there can't wait to get back. People not from there can't wait to leave.

 

[bronx43]

NYC fam med grads make 225-250 for like 4 days a week…

Primary care is a hidden gem these days. Otherwise than procedural/surgical specialties, it's probably one of the better combinations of lifestyle, geographic flexibility and pay.

 

[chillaxbro]

NYC fam med grads make 225-250 for like 4 days a week…

RIP

 

[Tenk]

Lotta young hotties

that are looking for the bankers and other high net worth individuals

Sounds like true love.

 

[emperor tamarin]

235k is pretty low.
Northwell paying 315k or so
Mt Sinai 305k or so
NYU 290k or so
Presby I'm not sure it was classically less, but definitely more than that
The HHC hospitals are the only places I know with that low a starting salary.

 

[emperor tamarin]

I will add though that the job market in NYC is extremely tight right now for these jobs.

 

[Tenk]

People from there can't wait to get back. People not from there can't wait to leave.

So you’re saying it’s like prison…?

 

[chillaxbro]

235k is pretty low.
Northwell paying 315k or so
Mt Sinai 305k or so
NYU 290k or so
Presby I'm not sure it was classically less, but definitely more than that
The HHC hospitals are the only places I know with that low a starting salary.

Are those places working more hours (eg 36 or 40 hours to be full time)? I can't understand how the pay so different

 

[thegenius]

I recently got an offer. New graduate.

$235k starting BE, 32 hours a week, ~45 weeks a year if you discount holidays, vacation, CME etc. all the usual benefits

I already knew NYC was low at baseline… but I was wondering how this compares to other places in NYC….

What is the total value of the compensation package? Are you W2 or 1099?

There are lots of details you left out.

For instance your yearly salary is $235,000. You'll be working 32*45 = 1,440 hrs that year.
That is $163 / hr. Not good.

But do you get health care? 401K? Disability? Pension? All that stuff adds up. That might be worth another 50-75/hr a year. That would put you up to $210 - 240 / hr. That is better.

 

[thegenius]

$163.19/hr ugh. Why do you guys love NYC that much? Is it worth it? Hell, you’d make more living in a major city in California.

I'm in the Bay Area, and just calculated that I made $323/hr for 2021 as a 1099.

 

[thegenius]

Lotta young hotties

that are looking for the bankers and other high net worth individuals

They shouldn't go hitting up ER doctors then!!!

 

[GassYous]

I'm in the Bay Area, and just calculated that I made $323/hr for 2021 as a 1099.

You single?

 

[thegenius]

You single?

Married with two teenage kids

 

[Groove]

I'm in the Bay Area, and just calculated that I made $323/hr for 2021 as a 1099.

That's awesome man! Well, at least one state seems to adjust for COL and increased taxes. I'd say San Francisco is just as desirable as NYC or most other metropolitan meccas in the U.S. You're killing it on the level of @EctopicFetus in his unicorn SDG!

Was this by scalping locums gigs all year or within a CMG? Either way, I'm proud of you..that's fantastic.

 

[bravotwozero]

It’s not a career, it’s an “accessory” job to talk about at parties. The people who take these went to med school on mom and dad’s dime and have a large trust set for them. They want to live in Manhattan and have the money to do so with or without the job.

A trust fund baby opting to work in a field that requires you to work nights, weekends, and holidays for meager NYC pay...that doesn't seem plausible.

 

[deleted941485]

A trust fund baby opting to work in a field that requires you to work nights, weekends, and holidays for meager NYC pay...that doesn't seem plausible.

bored rich people who need to feel like they are fighting the good fight down there in the trenches with the unwashed.

 

[chillaxbro]

What is the total value of the compensation package? Are you W2 or 1099?

There are lots of details you left out.

For instance your yearly salary is $235,000. You'll be working 32*45 = 1,440 hrs that year.
That is $163 / hr. Not good.

But do you get health care? 401K? Disability? Pension? All that stuff adds up. That might be worth another 50-75/hr a year. That would put you up to $210 - 240 / hr. That is better.

W2 with all the dental, medical, 401k with matching, life and disability. I assumed all that was "routine" for non 1099

 

[chillaxbro]

Also do you get paid more as you have more years of work experience? Or are u stuck at the same $/hr for the rest of your life?

 

[emperor tamarin]

Are those places working more hours (eg 36 or 40 hours to be full time)? I can't understand how the pay so different

They're all between 32 and 36 hours for full-time clinical.

It's not just those big name places and their affiliates;

Jamaica Hospital for ex or Bronx Lebanon both pay more like 280k or more last I heard. If you're willing to reverse commute to Westchester, or live in Westchester, white plains pays like 330k or more.

I am not sure where your offer is, but it's among the lowest I've seen recently for a full time EM job in NYC. Certainly within the spectrum but bottom quartile.

 

[thegenius]

That's awesome man! Well, at least one state seems to adjust for COL and increased taxes. I'd say San Francisco is just as desirable as NYC or most other metropolitan meccas in the U.S. You're killing it on the level of @EctopicFetus in his unicorn SDG!

Was this by scalping locums gigs all year or within a CMG? Either way, I'm proud of you..that's fantastic.

Thanks buddy. A few years ago we were under TH and averaging about $250/hr. Now that we dumped them and are IC's of the hospital, we are making more. Less overhead, and better overall working conditions. So no CMG for us at this time.

 

[turkeyjerky]

Thanks buddy. A few years ago we were under TH and averaging about $250/hr. Now that we dumped them and are IC's of the hospital, we are making more. Less overhead, and better overall working conditions. So no CMG for us at this time.

Now that's a feel-good story.

 

[alpinism]

Which hospital? How many hours per week? Brand new grad or have good work experience? Bonuses too? Benefits too or nah?

I'm at Brookdale Hospital. Yeah for new grads working the same hours with benefits.

Remember though everything has a price in life. There's a reason the pay is better than other hospitals.

 

[NicMouse64]

A trust fund baby opting to work in a field that requires you to work nights, weekends, and holidays for meager NYC pay...that doesn't seem plausible.

Bill gates daughter is a medical student..........

 

[Apollyon]

And Pat Sajak's son graduated this past June, and is now a resident!

 

[DeadCactus]

It's funny how with so many physicians in NYC, the only people complaining about NYC are the people who don't live there and generally seem to hate their career choice.

 

[doctalaughs]

Making 250k in NYC or San Francisco is equivalent to making 70k in most cities in America. Maybe like 125k in “popular” areas like Denver, Miami, DC etc.

So basically 250k in NYC gets you the typical lifestyle of a sanitation worker, or maybe a manager of a Starbucks etc elsewhere in the country.

To compensate for cost of living a PCP in NYC should be paid 1 M, and specialists 1.5 M just to break even.

 

[thegenius]

W2 with all the dental, medical, 401k with matching, life and disability. I assumed all that was "routine" for non 1099

Yea it could be routine for W2, yet it's still important to take that into consideration. Let me, for example...breakdown in simple means why it's important to take the total value of the compensation package into consideration:

Let's compare IC to W2. Assume you work 1,440 hours a year as you said above. If you are an IC....let's say you make $250/hr.

Gross Income as 1099: $360,000
Less Estimated Quarterly Fed/State Taxes (25%): -$90,000
Less Retirement Contribution (e.g. SEP-IRA, 401K): -$58,000
Less Health Insurance Premium (which varies): -$6,000 - $20,000, let's call it: -$10,000
Less Disability Insurance (which varies): $-7,000
Total Debits: -$165,000

Net Income: $195,000

Working 1,440 hrs / year that comes to $135/hr.

Of course, some of these numbers are fungible. There are deductions for a 1099. But honestly it's not like ER doctors have tons of deductions. Maybe you pay less for health care. Maybe you pay part of your health care with your W2. But you go from $250/hr as an IC down to $135 - $180/hr as a W2.

 

[DrSnips]

I'm in Brooklyn and we pay roughly 300k full time academics.

Wow, that's a pretty high salary for an academic.

I'm at Brookdale Hospital.

You are underpaid.

 

[turkeyjerky]

It's funny how with so many physicians in NYC, the only people complaining about NYC are the people who don't live there and generally seem to hate their career choice.

If I had a trust fund and lived in NYC, I definitely wouldn't be on sdn either...

Yea it could be routine for W2, yet it's still important to take that into consideration. Let me, for example...breakdown in simple means why it's important to take the total value of the compensation package into consideration:

Let's compare IC to W2. Assume you work 1,440 hours a year as you said above. If you are an IC....let's say you make $250/hr.

Gross Income as 1099: $360,000
Less Estimated Quarterly Fed/State Taxes (25%): -$90,000
Less Retirement Contribution (e.g. SEP-IRA, 401K): -$58,000
Less Health Insurance Premium (which varies): -$6,000 - $20,000, let's call it: -$10,000
Less Disability Insurance (which varies): $-7,000
Total Debits: -$165,000

Net Income: $195,000

Working 1,440 hrs / year that comes to $135/hr.

Of course, some of these numbers are fungible. There are deductions for a 1099. But honestly it's not like ER doctors have tons of deductions. Maybe you pay less for health care. Maybe you pay part of your health care with your W2. But you go from $250/hr as an IC down to $135 - $180/hr as a W2.

I'm probably more negative on 1099 vs W2 than a lot of people, but I think you're going a little overboard (plus your math is just off, for example retirement contributions and health insurance are pre-tax as 1099. so overall tax burden in your example should be 73k not 90k). Many, likely most, employed jobs don't allow for as much retirement savings (eg they'll match up to 13k of you're 401k contributions. Maybe they'll be a 457 and/or a defined benefit plan but you usually don't get up to the amount that you would in a solo 401k), and most people carry their own disability plan regardless of employment model. Also, W2 positions don't get advertised w/ post-tax salary either (eg the OP might be on the hook for 50k in Federal taxes w/o accounting for deductions, so an hourly of 126/hr per your calculations).

 

[alpinism]

Wow, that's a pretty high salary for an academic.

You are underpaid.

Haha I don't mind the absolute craziness but there are some nice benefits.

We've been so understaffed the past few weeks that we're on critical diversion most days.

So right now I'm basically making 200HR to see 1PPH with the residents.

 

[thegenius]

I'm probably more negative on 1099 vs W2 than a lot of people, but I think you're going a little overboard (plus your math is just off, for example retirement contributions and health insurance are pre-tax as 1099. so overall tax burden in your example should be 73k not 90k). Many, likely most, employed jobs don't allow for as much retirement savings (eg they'll match up to 13k of you're 401k contributions. Maybe they'll be a 457 and/or a defined benefit plan but you usually don't get up to the amount that you would in a solo 401k), and most people carry their own disability plan regardless of employment model. Also, W2 positions don't get advertised w/ post-tax salary either (eg the OP might be on the hook for 50k in Federal taxes w/o accounting for deductions, so an hourly of 126/hr per your calculations).

Hold on now. My math isn’t that bad. I do my own taxes every year and pay estimated quarterly taxes. And I do a good enough job that I end up getting just a little refund (< $5K / year). So I do a very good job estimating my tax bill throughout the year.

My estimated taxes might be a little high by about 10K. And I’m in CA and we have hefty state taxes as well.

Yet regardless….you are making estimated tax payments and while while you get to deduct retirement and health premiums…all if that is factored in when you make estimated tax payments.

Might be hard to compare 401K / SEP-IRA given what you wrote.

But the whole point of this exercise is that you have to pay for a lot of crap as a 1099 before you get to your disposable income part. That’s the point. Your 250/hr goes to 150/hr before you begin paying for rent/mortgage, utilities, car payments, food, booze and hookers.

 

[deleted941485]

Lotta young hotties

that are looking for the bankers and other high net worth individuals

I can attest to that. The hotties are definitely not interested in listening to your stories about 24 hour shifts, train wreck patients and how you can never get away. Putting out for someone like that represents a negative ROI.

 

[Kryptocoin]

I can attest to that. The hotties are definitely not interested in listening to your stories about 24 hour shifts, train wreck patients and how you can never get away. Putting out for someone like that represents a negative ROI.

Yeah. Doctors are middle class in NYC. The 8s and 9s have other options and deal with bigger players. A New York 7 isn't bad at all, definitely a cut above your local town midwest girl you're use to dealing with.

 

[deleted941485]

Yeah. Doctors are middle class in NYC. The 8s and 9s have other options and deal with bigger players. A New York 7 isn't bad at all, definitely a cut above your local town midwest girl you're use to dealing with.

Good things flow into the city. Plenty of 9-10s from middle America coming to the city for their shot at an acting career. Most of them end up failing heading home, marrying rich, become an escort, etc

 

[Kryptocoin]

Good things flow into the city. Plenty of 9-10s from middle America coming to the city for their shot at an acting career. Most of them end up failing heading home, marrying rich, become an escort, etc

9s/10s failed actresses don't escort anymore. That's old school. They now do OFs. Lots more money, and it's legal.

 

[deleted941485]

9s/10s failed actresses don't escort anymore. That's old school. They now do OFs. Lots more money, and it's legal.

I don’t even understand how that works. I’m guess the GF experience for 2000/hr isn’t an option though.

 

[Kryptocoin]

I don’t even understand how that works. I’m guess the GF experience for 2000/hr isn’t an option though.

Sure

 

[EMhawkeye]

bored rich people who need to feel like they are fighting the good fight down there in the trenches with the unwashed.

I did residency with a guy who came from old money. His father and brother were optho. Their family had a castle in Luxembourg. They donated several million dollars to a medical school recently.
He never has to work a day in his life but chose to be a physician.