NYC IM Programs

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nymed99999

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So I am a MS4 from a west-coast school. Unfortunately my Fiancé just recently matched into an ENT program in manhattan. Due to this I will be looking to match into an internal medicine program in NYC. As I am from a west coast school I do not have a good idea as to how all of the internal medicine programs rank in the NYC area. I am interested in knowing how all of the academic programs rank as well as which community programs are the best. I am a pretty average applicant and I am not sure where to spend my time pursuing. My board scores are slightly above the national average for step 1, I have two publications one of which is in Science and I did two years of research at MGH before deciding to go to medical school. What schools are realistic for me? Thanks for your help.
 
You should check out FREIDA Online. Also, the internal med forum might know more about program credentials.

It's hard to compare programs, as it depends on what you're looking for. Generally, if you plan to specialize after IM, go to a program that has fellowships in those subspecialties.

Here's a ranking list by NIH funding which corresponds to the academic-ness of each program:
http://www.residentphysician.com/Medicine_rankings.htm
 
The other criteria that matter will be which school you go to (you'll get more leeway coming from a brand name), your class rank, whether you are AOA and your step 2 score (you should probably take it early).

The generally accepted ranking of the university programs in manhattan are: Columbia, Cornell/Sinai, NYU. Monte is in the Bronx and easier to get into but you still have to be a significantly above average candidate. Basically you'll be surprised at how competitive they all are. You should also look at North Shore LIJ in Long Island which is close enough to the city and easier to match into. There are also a couple of university programs in NJ fairly close to NYC that you should consider. I would not recommend going to downstate. As for community programs they are a dime a dozen and you shouldn't have a problem matching into any of them as a US MD grad: St Luke's, Lenox Hill, Beth Israel are the ones physically in manhattan. I would not recommend going to any of them.
 
verytrideg said:
Yeah,As for community programs they are a dime a dozen and you shouldn't have a problem matching into any of them as a US MD grad: St Luke's, Lenox Hill, Beth Israel are the ones physically in manhattan. I would not recommend going to any of them.thanks
6PckcN
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Why are you copying and repeating what @MeatTornado is saying? Are you trolling?
 
So I guess I am still a little confused. I met with my program director today and what he told is that after reveiwing my application that programs such as MGH and Colombia would be a reach but that he saw me matching at programs Cornell, or NYU. Is he off his rocker? Does he not know what he is talking about because we are a west coast school? This has been the trend of what I have been told but I still would like to hear from someone who is in the area knows. Is meat tornado right I dont have a chance at any of these schools?
Tri723 I appreciate your response that was very helpful
 
Southplains said:
They look more "legit" and won't get banned immediately as an obvious spammer when they start posting spam? Clearly it doesn't work well.
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Yes that is classic bot behavior. What they'll do is use the post as a placeholder and then come back at a later date and replace the text with spam.
 
nymed99999 said:
So I guess I am still a little confused. I met with my program director today and what he told is that after reveiwing my application that programs such as MGH and Colombia would be a reach but that he saw me matching at programs Cornell, or NYU. Is he off his rocker? Does he not know what he is talking about because we are a west coast school? This has been the trend of what I have been told but I still would like to hear from someone who is in the area knows. Is meat tornado right I dont have a chance at any of these schools?
Tri723 I appreciate your response that was very helpful
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No prob...agree with what your program director said...But it'll be tough regardless...also agrees with your director that matching at an MGH-like place is unlikely. Edit - This is in discrepancy with what someone else said here.
 
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1. congrats to your so for matching ent in nyc.

2. I thought nyc had a HUGE region bias.
 
nymed99999 said:
So I guess I am still a little confused. I met with my program director today and what he told is that after reveiwing my application that programs such as MGH and Colombia would be a reach but that he saw me matching at programs Cornell, or NYU. Is he off his rocker? Does he not know what he is talking about because we are a west coast school? This has been the trend of what I have been told but I still would like to hear from someone who is in the area knows. Is meat tornado right I dont have a chance at any of these schools?
Tri723 I appreciate your response that was very helpful
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I didn't say it's impossible. There are all those criteria that I mentioned that I still don't know where you stand in. Of you are at a top school for instance your step 1 score won't hold you back as much. Likewise if you are too ranked or AOA that will make up for other aspects. Be aware though that IM has become much more competitive in just the last few years so some of the advisors' advice may be outdated.
 
nymed99999 said:
So I guess I am still a little confused. I met with my program director today and what he told is that after reveiwing my application that programs such as MGH and Colombia would be a reach but that he saw me matching at programs Cornell, or NYU. Is he off his rocker? Does he not know what he is talking about because we are a west coast school? This has been the trend of what I have been told but I still would like to hear from someone who is in the area knows. Is meat tornado right I dont have a chance at any of these schools?
Tri723 I appreciate your response that was very helpful
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Not necessarily. You haven't given us specifics regarding your 3rd year grades, especially your IM grade, whether you're junior AOA, what you expect your step 2 score to be, etc. etc., so it's hard to say definitively one way or the other.

I would recommend you do an away somewhere in Manhattan/NYC, with a glowing LoR from a big-name attending (prefereably), to show these NYC programs that you are serious about considering residency positions out there. Geographical bias is a big issue, especially in smaller name programs that may not interview or rank you if they think you won't truly consider them.
 
I am at a mid-tier school, with only a high pass in medicine (I honored my floors and passed the test, I unfortunately found out my mother had cancer three days before the exam, however I do NOT intend to tell programs this as I think it will be looked at as an "excuse") with high pass in all of my other third year clerkships besides surgery which I got honors in (go figures). I am not AOA. I anticipate my step 2 score to be 230-240. I am doing multiple aways in NYC this fall and will be looking to get letters from valued faculty at least at my first rotation before interviews start to be offered.
 
nymed99999 said:
I am at a mid-tier school, with only a high pass in medicine (I honored my floors and passed the test, I unfortunately found out my mother had cancer three days before the exam, however I do NOT intend to tell programs this as I think it will be looked at as an "excuse") with high pass in all of my other third year clerkships besides surgery which I got honors in (go figures). I am not AOA. I anticipate my step 2 score to be 230-240. I am doing multiple aways in NYC this fall and will be looking to get letters from valued faculty at least at my first rotation before interviews start to be offered.
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Assuming mid-tier means 30-50 in US news I would say that NYU and Monte are both tossups. The rest of the university programs are unlikely but might be swayed by your research if it is in fact that impressive. I would aim higher for step 2 (like 250+, remember the average is 230s) and take it early. Apply broadly in the NYC area including the less competitive programs I mentioned earlier. Good luck!
 
MeatTornado said:
I would not recommend going to downstate. As for community programs they are a dime a dozen and you shouldn't have a problem matching into any of them as a US MD grad: St Luke's, Lenox Hill, Beth Israel are the ones physically in manhattan. I would not recommend going to any of them.
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I am just curious. Can you elaborate further on why these programs are not highly recommended?
 
Lya said:
I am just curious. Can you elaborate further on why these programs are not highly recommended?
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Downstate is notoriously malignant and the community programs have sub-par training in general (see article where BI attending says the 3rd yr residents are unprepared for independent practice)
 
Well if you just want to pass aren't there a ton of programs that are Caribbean mills? If NYC is that important I suppose that is an option?
 
blizzah said:
Well if you just want to pass aren't there a ton of programs that are Caribbean mills? If NYC is that important I suppose that is an option?
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I dont really understand what you mean by "want to pass"
 
MeatTornado said:
Assuming mid-tier means 30-50 in US news I would say that NYU and Monte are both tossups. The rest of the university programs are unlikely but might be swayed by your research if it is in fact that impressive. I would aim higher for step 2 (like 250+, remember the average is 230s) and take it early. Apply broadly in the NYC area including the less competitive programs I mentioned earlier. Good luck!
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There seems to be a huge discrepancy between what I'm hearing people say here and what other people from my current program have told me...is there anyone who is at NYC residencies or at least has been through the application process in these areas, or at the very least is a student at one of these programs and could comment to this?
 
nymed99999 said:
There seems to be a huge discrepancy between what I'm hearing people say here and what other people from my current program have told me...is there anyone who is at NYC residencies or at least has been through the application process in these areas, or at the very least is a student at one of these programs and could comment to this?
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I applied in 2013.....
Step 1 = 248
Step 2 = 252 (took it in october though, should've taken much earlier)
rank = second quartile
school = state school ranked 50-60
research = first author and second author papers, lots of abstracts, a couple posters and an oral presentation
....i also have a non-SMP masters and strong connections to the region

results...
NYU - interviewed, didn't match
Monte - interviewed, was probably ranked to match but I ranked it lower because of malignant rep
Columbia, Cornell, Sinai - no interview

i'm not saying don't apply but you're underestimating how fierce the competition is for these NYC spots. again things have changed very rapidly in IM and it has become much more competitive. on top of that NYC is the absolute most desirable location since there are so many people in your position who need to be there for personal reasons. Add to that all the students from those schools who want to stay and the competition becomes even fiercer. For instance in 2013 NYU filled 19 of it's ~50 categorical spots with NYU students!
 
MeatTornado said:
I applied in 2013.....
Step 1 = 248
Step 2 = 252 (took it in october though, should've taken much earlier)
rank = second quartile
school = state school ranked 50-60
research = first author and second author papers, lots of abstracts, a couple posters and an oral presentation
....i also have a non-SMP masters and strong connections to the region

results...
NYU - interviewed, didn't match
Monte - interviewed, was probably ranked to match but I ranked it lower because of malignant rep
Columbia, Cornell, Sinai - no interview

i'm not saying don't apply but you're underestimating how fierce the competition is for these NYC spots. again things have changed very rapidly in IM and it has become much more competitive. on top of that NYC is the absolute most desirable location since there are so many people in your position who need to be there for personal reasons. Add to that all the students from those schools who want to stay and the competition becomes even fiercer. For instance in 2013 NYU filled 19 of it's ~50 categorical spots with NYU students!
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your experience. It really gives me a realistic, broad perspective on what I should expect, since I am also interested in IM programs.

My guess is that other popular cities like Boston and other towns in California are very similar to NYC, as far as interviews and getting matched are concerned? Do you think that some people might even take a research year to be even more competitive for renowned IM programs?
 
MeatTornado said:
I applied in 2013.....
Step 1 = 248
Step 2 = 252 (took it in october though, should've taken much earlier)
rank = second quartile
school = state school ranked 50-60
research = first author and second author papers, lots of abstracts, a couple posters and an oral presentation
....i also have a non-SMP masters and strong connections to the region

results...
NYU - interviewed, didn't match
Monte - interviewed, was probably ranked to match but I ranked it lower because of malignant rep
Columbia, Cornell, Sinai - no interview

i'm not saying don't apply but you're underestimating how fierce the competition is for these NYC spots. again things have changed very rapidly in IM and it has become much more competitive. on top of that NYC is the absolute most desirable location since there are so many people in your position who need to be there for personal reasons. Add to that all the students from those schools who want to stay and the competition becomes even fiercer. For instance in 2013 NYU filled 19 of it's ~50 categorical spots with NYU students!
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wtf... are you kidding me
 
maxxor said:
IM has gotten much more competitive in the past year or two. The ACA has scared all the risk averse med students into thinking specialties are doomed and IM is where it's at.
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Wow. What a deception. IM stinks. I can't wait until I'm done with it.

But I do have much more appreciation for those doing it. So I intend to consult as best as I can accordingly. Poor bastards.
 
Nasrudin said:
Wow. What a deception. IM stinks. I can't wait until I'm done with it.

But I do have much more appreciation for those doing it. So I intend to consult as best as I can accordingly. Poor bastards.
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I can't even imagine doing IM residency because the ACA made you do it (vs. actually liking the subject).
 
DermViser said:
😵 Um, but they're going to specialize after IM.
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We'll see. The majority from my school actually matched into primary care track residencies. Dunno if they viewed those as less competitive or if that's what they want to do.

Most stuck around where I'll be, so I will keep tabs.
 
maxxor said:
Maybe they wanted more outpatient months to escape months of inpatient night float.
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Oh, I didn't know the curriculum is changed for them. I thought they just had more primary care clinics per week. Must make for a very awkward conversation at the beginning of your 3rd year of residency in a primary care track to say that you want a LOR to apply for GI.
 
From what I've seen, these people do a primary care residency, work as a junior attending for a year or two, realize life sucks, and apply for fellowship in cards/GI/hemonc.

People going into allergy have to be on top of their game and apply straight out of IM.
 
maxxor said:
From what I've seen, these people do a primary care residency, work as a junior attending for a year or two, realize life sucks, and apply for fellowship in cards/GI/hemonc.

People going into allergy have to be on top of their game and apply straight out of IM.
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I didn't think it was that easy though. Many times the ones going for Cards, GI, or Heme/Onc have to do research during residency. You can't just walk into those fellowships even when you're attending status.
 
Lya said:
Thank you for sharing your experience. It really gives me a realistic, broad perspective on what I should expect, since I am also interested in IM programs.

My guess is that other popular cities like Boston and other towns in California are very similar to NYC, as far as interviews and getting matched are concerned? Do you think that some people might even take a research year to be even more competitive for renowned IM programs?
Click to expand...

if you don't have the numbers the research year probably won't make a difference unless you make a super strong connection with someone at one of the programs to the point where they feel they have to keep you there

maxxor said:
IM has gotten much more competitive in the past year or two. The ACA has scared all the risk averse med students into thinking specialties are doomed and IM is where it's at.
Click to expand...

the first part of your statement is true though it's been going on for a bit more than a couple of years. it has nothing to do with the ACA though....people are moving away from other once-popular specialties like anesthesia and radiology because of very poor/saturated job markets. Also the rise of hospitalists makes IM an attractive lifestyle specialty whereby you can live comfortably working about half the year after a short 3 year residency
 
MeatTornado said:
Also the rise of hospitalists makes IM an attractive lifestyle specialty whereby you can live comfortably working about half the year after a short 3 year residency
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Yes, but you're a hospitalist. Those people get used and abused by hospital corporations. I have yet to meet a hospitalist who doesn't talk about the pay first as to why they like it. They're a corporate doc.
 
DermViser said:
Yes, but you're a hospitalist. Those people get used and abused by hospital corporations. I have yet to meet a hospitalist who doesn't talk about the pay first as to why they like it. They're a corporate doc.
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who isn't being abused by hospital corporations nowadays? radiologists forced to read more studies and their work is being outsourced to outside groups, anesthesiologists being replaced by CRNAs, ERs expanding forcing docs to see more patients in less time. At least having hospitalists vs. PCPs with admitting privileges is actually more efficient and better for patients.
 
MeatTornado said:
who isn't being abused by hospital corporations nowadays? radiologists forced to read more studies and their work is being outsourced to outside groups, anesthesiologists being replaced by CRNAs, ERs expanding forcing docs to see more patients in less time. At least having hospitalists vs. PCPs with admitting privileges is actually more efficient and better for patients.
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No it isn't better for patients. As a hospitalist your job is to move the meat, nothing more. Patient's needs come secondary.

Teleradiology is a Radiology invention.
 
DermViser said:
No it isn't better for patients. As a hospitalist your job is to move the meat, nothing more. Patient's needs come secondary.

Teleradiology is a Radiology invention.
Click to expand...

so you're saying it's much better having inpatients be an afterthought with a full 30 patient clinic schedule, showing up to round at 7pm, nurses (or midlevels) waiting for hours for you to call back to approve an order or make a decision when a patient's clinical status changes instead of having someone in house whose only job is to take care of inpatients?
 
MeatTornado said:
so you're saying it's much better having inpatients be an afterthought with a full 30 patient clinic schedule, showing up to round at 7pm, nurses (or midlevels) waiting for hours for you to call back to approve an order or make a decision when a patient's clinical status changes instead of having someone in house whose only job is to take care of inpatients?
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Patients would prefer their PCP see them in the hospital. Hospitals are the ones who pushed them out.
 
DermViser said:
Patients would prefer their PCP see them in the hospital. Hospitals are the ones who pushed them out.
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Patients prefer a lot of things that aren't necessarily good for them. Have you ever dealt with a private attending. It's frustrating. PCPs are still welcome to visit the patient and give their take but IMO the hospitalist system is much better for everyone involved. Not sure if there's any data out there about this.
 
MeatTornado said:
Patients prefer a lot of things that aren't necessarily good for them. Have you ever dealt with a private attending. It's frustrating. PCPs are still welcome to visit the patient and give their take but IMO the hospitalist system is much better for everyone involved. Not sure if there's any data out there about this.
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The only one out there is that there are no costs savings with hospitalists.
 
The hell it's better for patients.

A hospitalist is not going to be able to manage complex patients like somebody who knows them well. Period. Hospitalists are money makers for hospitals. And have thus multiplied.

It's got to be one of the crappiest jobs I can imagine. And trust me...I've done more than one man's share of ****ty work.

People obviously disagree. But for myself, I'm shocked at how much general medicine wards sucks a bag of d!cks. I marvel at people who think it makes sense as a career choice. It's f'n miraculous that such people exist...
 
Nasrudin said:
The hell it's better for patients.

A hospitalist is not going to be able to manage complex patients like somebody who knows them well. Period. Hospitalists are money makers for hospitals. And have thus multiplied.

It's got to be one of the crappiest jobs I can imagine. And trust me...I've done more than one man's share of ****ty work.

People obviously disagree. But for myself, I'm shocked at how much general medicine wards sucks a bag of d!cks. I marvel at people who think it makes sense as a career choice. It's f'n miraculous that such people exist...
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That's bc they do it completely for the money only.
 
IM is stupid competitive, and it boggles my mind. It's basically med school part 2 at university programs. You are in a class of 30 or so people, and you are competing with your peers for the fellowship match. Why anybody would want to subject themselves to med school again but harder, longer, and with more responsibility, and especially subject themselves to the worst part of med school, medicine wards, is beyond me. 6 days a week of 14-16 hour days of social work, rounding, paper pushing, and body fluids? Yeah, that's a reasonable and healthy way to live. Then you get out and you get that sweet hospitalist job you coveted and spend your week off recovering then kill yourself all over again. It's basically being waterboarded for the rest of your career and thinking "if only I can get through this week..." over and over again.

Medicine wards sucks the life out of you. I can't imagine it doing it as a career. I wouldn't do it for $500k. I wouldn't do it for $1m. I would do it for $5m. I could suck up three years of residency and two years of work and retire. 5 years of my life in my 30s is worth no less than 10 million dollars. Yet we got people lining up to do it for $200k/year? Think about it. There is a reason your attendings are only on the wards a month or so a year. There is a reason hospitalists work 7-7s. In other professions, people do the same job throughout the year. Why do IM docs only do ward medicine part of the year? To anybody else, this would be suspicious. But not to med students. To them, it's a perk.
 
DermViser said:
That's bc they do it completely for the money only.
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Speak for yourself.

It's like when someone claims that there is no one who could possibly be interested in Derm for any reason except the lifestyle. You may say based on your extensive IM experience (i.e. a prelim year you likely tried to finish with the bare minimum of effort it took to graduate on time) that you personally wouldn't want to do it long-term, but there's thousands of others every year who are more than happy to do IM. And I'll eat my phone if it's just because of the $$$.
 
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