can i get in


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Sep 18, 2015
5
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Stats: uw gpa 3.92 (93ish)
W gpa 4.36(100-101ish)
Sat 2350 --- (1550/1600) 800M 750R 800W- these are projected scores but i got a 2160 with out preparation on June, and I've been doing many administered practice tests and this score seems certain and definite
APs:
Ap bio 4. Chem 4. Cslc ab 5. Calc bc 5, Lang 4. us history 5. Microeconomics 5
RANK: top 5-10% of very competitive high school in NJ. I have the most rigorous course loads possible.
SAT 2s: 800 Math2, 780 Chemistry, 800 Physics, 700 Bio(lol should i send this)

Senior year: APs include:
-psychology
-lit
-physics C
-macroeconomics
-gov
-a couple more that have not been decide
-Calc 3 at community college

CLUBS:
-secretary of environmental action club,
-member of deca
-Chief of Volunteering committee in fbla
- NHS
- Spanish NHS
- tech club/ robotics
- VP of red cross club
- Mathletes
- treasurer of Science NHS
- participate in science league
- (might become captain) academic team
- ping pong club

Sports:
-soccer(in school) 3 years of high school (9,10,12), injured 11th grade
-Black Belt in karate(outside school)- 8 years of work
-Track and Field( 11,12)
-Idk if this matters but i also played soccer and basketball at rec levels

Music:
-Played guitar for 9 years.
-Take lessons outside of school
-only real accomplishments in this instrument is in some recitals conducted by my teacher-not much

Volunteer Work:
-Local Hospital:(food delivery, emergency room, front desk): 230 hours
-Science museum- 120 hours
- Organizer of Relay For Life in local park(twice). - 40 hours
- park clean up- 10 hours
- library tutoring- 20 hours
-Coached my brother's soccer team for 2 seasons

Medical Stuff:
-Took an EMT course but still waiting to get into action since im young
-Shadowed a Family Practitioner for 50 hours
-published one paper scientific paper in university(basically assistant but 2nd name)
- Conducted a Blood Drive locally

Awards:
-AP Awards
-nothing else major

Essay: Will try to make it amazing. i am an excellent writer and can hopefully make it super strong
Teacher Rec: good but not special (8/10)
 

md-2020

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Go to a real UG, you're competitive for a decent school. Don't lock yourself in this early, and also there is no reason to commit to DO as a HS senior.
 

Lawper

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Go to a real UG, you're competitive for a decent school. Don't lock yourself in this early, and also there is no reason to commit to DO as a HS senior.
Yeah I agree. Not that there is anything wrong with BS/DO programs, but honestly, it's just far better to attend a good, cheap undergrad and excel from there. Early assurance programs may help as well.
 
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OP
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Sep 18, 2015
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Thanks for responses and i will definitely apply to several UG. However, I am 100% guaranteed that I want to become a doctor so I think the combined programs are the best bet. I prefer bs/md programs near NJ,NY,PA and other close state but for these programs the number of qualified applicants is insanlely high. Hence, why I think i basically have no shot at any bs/md. Do you think I might have a chance at bs/md schools like drexell, temple, tcnj, rutgers, and anything near NJ,NY,PA?
 

Lawper

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Thanks for responses and i will definitely apply to several UG. However, I am 100% guaranteed that I want to become a doctor so I think the combined programs are the best bet. I prefer bs/md programs near NJ,NY,PA and other close state but for these programs the number of qualified applicants is insanlely high. Hence, why I think i basically have no shot at any bs/md. Do you think I might have a chance at bs/md schools like drexell, temple, tcnj, rutgers, and anything near NJ,NY,PA?
BS/MD programs like that of Drexel, Temple etc. really aren't that competitive. The truly heavily competitive programs are those of WashU, Brown, Pitt, Northwestern etc. Obviously, you have a much better shot at the former than the latter so it doesn't hurt to apply.
 

md-2020

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BS/MD programs like that of Drexel, Temple etc. really aren't that competitive. The truly heavily competitive programs are those of WashU, Brown, Pitt, Northwestern etc. Obviously, you have a much better shot at the former than the latter so it doesn't hurt to apply.
Let's not be that general. I got into multiple Ivies/Top 15s and had a 2400 SAT/tons of sports awards but didn't get into one of those
 

Lawper

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Let's not be that general. I got into multiple Ivies/Top 15s and had a 2400 SAT/tons of sports awards but didn't get into one of those
You're right that i shouldn't broadly generalize like that, but i am familiar with some-many of the students in few of those accelerated programs whose case was opposite to yours (i.e. got into few of these BS/MD programs with half of your stats and activities but got shut out from the strong undergrads).

Still, i realize that BS/MDs, like summer research programs at Amgen/NIH etc, are very competitive, but there is a clear, profound split within the category. The programs of Pitt/WashU/Northwestern/Brown are in some other level altogether
 

md-2020

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The programs of Pitt/WashU/Northwestern/Brown are in some other level altogether
For sure. I was actually talking about NU's HPME program w/ my cousin in HS, and was very taken aback when he showed me that the average SAT for accepted applicants was 2320


My goodness. Their program isn't even that "safe": you have to pull a 3.6/3.2 at Northwestern UG, including all pre-med pre-reqs. I'd imagine there's considerable attrition, especially since NU boasts the "hardest chemistry sequence in the world" quite often.
 
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Lawper

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For sure. I was actually talking about NU's HPME program w/ my cousin in HS, and was very taken aback when he showed me that the average SAT for accepted applicants was 2320


My goodness
What is strange is that even despite the incredibly massive hurdles applicants have to jump to get into one of these elite programs, they still have to take the MCAT and score high to maintain their spot. IIRC, this is apparently the case for WashU and Pitt, but Brown PLME was more forgiving and didn't require their students to take the MCAT.

Talk about intense
 
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Wait so Drexel bs/md and temple bs/md aren't hard? I dont have many awards, but i do have medical experience. Do you think I can get into either based on the stats of previously accepted?
 

GrapesofRath

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What is strange is that even despite the incredibly massive hurdles applicants have to jump to get into one of these elite programs, they still have to take the MCAT and score high to maintain their spot. IIRC, this is apparently the case for WashU and Pitt, but Brown PLME was more forgiving and didn't require their students to take the MCAT.

Talk about intense
You don't have to take the MCAT for Pitt's BS/MD. You simply have to maintain a 3.75 sGPA(much easier said than done, especially for a school while still a State U and definitely not as rigorous as top 20 schools is going to attract a TON of smart pre-meds because of how good their med school is and make competition tough). From what I know about people who've done the program, I'd say about 30% of the people who get accepted to BS/MD there can't keep the GPA, another 10-20% change their mind about pre-med, and probably a little more than half stick with pre-med and have the GPA for it(some if they can get into another top 20 school might go there instead).

WashU isn't really even a BS/MD program. Not only do you have to maintain a 3.8+ GPA, which probably only 1/6 pre-meds who apply from WashU maintain(and that doesn't include the many weeded out), you also need a 36+ MCAT(which only around half of 3.8+ students at WashU obtain). Anybody who can achieve that has a strong chance at a number of II's at top 20 schools. Really the program's benefit is for those who are capable of top stats and have a really specific reason for wanting WashU for med school as their top choice. In other words, not many people. The more accurate term for this than BS/MD program is "WashU's subtle attempt at trying to lock up any more top stat applicants they can".

From what I've read while Northwestern's standards for BS/MD's is certainly high but there are ways of being smart to maximize your odds. Don't be a science major. Spread out your pre-reqs. Take upper level science courses, the ones that have a rep for being easier, to boost your sGPA. None of this is easy but if you are smart about how your strategy the 3.6/3.2 is doable. I don't think there is an MCAT requirement here. From what I've heard about this program, more than half the people accepted to the program are able to maintain the GPA needed.

Brown is the one with very lax standards for those accepted. No MCAT. No GPA requirement. Simply maintaining B's is enough. On top of that, they allow up to two gap years before starting med school from their PLME's. I worked with a PLME last summer and he said the standards are so laidback it's well known there that you'll have some people every year just blow off college, do the minimum to get by and then be the ones who start having problems in med school which is kind of ironic since Brown undergrad deemed them the top of their class by admitting them to such a program.

In terms of other top med schools, I believe Rice/Baylor have a joint program for BS/MD into Baylor med(I can't confirm this and don't know anything about the program). And yes, these programs are very very competitive. Those who get into Northwestern's PLME program are the types who get into multiple of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Stanford. Same with WASHU. Those in Pitt's program almost all of them I know of got into multiple top 20 schools and you need to be in the top 1% of your class and have a 1450 SAT to even apply. They get about 250 applications and end up selecting 12 people to give an idea of how competitive it is from there.
 

md-2020

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From what I've read while Northwestern's standards for BS/MD's is certainly high but there are ways of being smart to maximize your odds. Don't be a science major. Spread out your pre-reqs. Take upper level science courses, the ones that have a rep for being easier, to boost your sGPA. None of this is easy but if you are smart about how your strategy the 3.6/3.2 is doable. I don't think there is an MCAT requirement here. From what I've heard about this program, more than half the people accepted to the program are able to maintain the GPA needed.
Holy **** I wouldn't be feeling great about my chances if the success rate is only 50-60%....


If I'm going BS/MD and sacrificing my chances at HYPSM/Top 10s I'd want a bit more security than that. Will pass on to cousin, this is not safe at all.
 

Lawper

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You don't have to take the MCAT for Pitt's BS/MD. You simply have to maintain a 3.75 sGPA(much easier said than done, especially for a school while still a State U and definitely not as rigorous as top 20 schools is going to attract a TON of smart pre-meds because of how good their med school is and make competition tough). From what I know about people who've done the program, I'd say about 30% of the people who get accepted to BS/MD there can't keep the GPA, another 10-20% change their mind about pre-med, and probably a little more than half stick with pre-med and have the GPA for it(some if they can get into another top 20 school might go there instead).

WashU isn't really even a BS/MD program. Not only do you have to maintain a 3.8+ GPA, which probably only 1/6 pre-meds who apply from WashU maintain(and that doesn't include the many weeded out), you also need a 36+ MCAT(which only around half of 3.8+ students at WashU obtain). Anybody who can achieve that has a strong chance at a number of II's at top 20 schools. Really the program's benefit is for those who are capable of top stats and have a really specific reason for wanting WashU for med school as their top choice. In other words, not many people. The more accurate term for this than BS/MD program is "WashU's subtle attempt at trying to lock up any more top stat applicants they can".

From what I've read while Northwestern's standards for BS/MD's is certainly high but there are ways of being smart to maximize your odds. Don't be a science major. Spread out your pre-reqs. Take upper level science courses, the ones that have a rep for being easier, to boost your sGPA. None of this is easy but if you are smart about how your strategy the 3.6/3.2 is doable. I don't think there is an MCAT requirement here. From what I've heard about this program, more than half the people accepted to the program are able to maintain the GPA needed.

Brown is the one with very lax standards for those accepted. No MCAT. No GPA requirement. Simply maintaining B's is enough. On top of that, they allow up to two gap years before starting med school from their PLME's. I worked with a PLME last summer and he said the standards are so laidback it's well known there that you'll have some people every year just blow off college, do the minimum to get by and then be the ones who start having problems in med school which is kind of ironic since Brown undergrad deemed them the top of their class by admitting them to such a program.

In terms of other top med schools, I believe Rice/Baylor have a joint program for BS/MD into Baylor med(I can't confirm this and don't know anything about the program). And yes, these programs are very very competitive. Those who get into Northwestern's PLME program are the types who get into multiple of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT and Stanford. Same with WASHU. Those in Pitt's program almost all of them I know of got into multiple top 20 schools and you need to be in the top 1% of your class and have a 1450 SAT to even apply. They get about 250 applications and end up selecting 12 people to give an idea of how competitive it is from there.
Great thanks for the info. It's been a while since i last focused on it, so it's rusty.

Wait so Drexel bs/md and temple bs/md aren't hard? I dont have many awards, but i do have medical experience. Do you think I can get into either based on the stats of previously accepted?
They are competitive but definitely a lot easier to get in than in the ultracompetitive accelerated programs described. And yes, you can probably get into those programs, but really there are no guarantees.
 

md-2020

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They are competitive but definitely a lot easier to get in than in the ultracompetitive accelerated programs described. And yes, you can probably get into those programs, but really there are no guarantees.
This being the key point. I'm sure I wasn't the only one to unexpectedly get rejected (pre-interview too) from a "low tier" BS/MD. I know people who've gotten into Brown PLME but not Rutgers/RWJMS. It's a crapshoot, just like any admissions process.
 

GrapesofRath

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Holy **** I wouldn't be feeling great about my chances if the success rate is only 50-60%....


If I'm going BS/MD and sacrificing my chances at HYPSM/Top 10s I'd want a bit more security than that. Will pass on to cousin, this is not safe at all.
I don't know if its only 50-60%. I just have heard its more than half. Maybe its 75-80%. Maybe its 52%.

You gotta realize how many pre-meds, even the ones who think they need to do medicine to be able to function in high school, simply do a complete 180 and change their mind once they get to college. I know this happens a fair amount at Pitt. Just imagine it at Northwestern where the options for non pre-meds in terms of job prospects are far superior and you are surrounded by people in consulting, IB, Google, Microsoft and other top places. This definitely happens to some guaranteed med's at NU. And even for the ones who initially don't drop pre-med, that thought of not being sold on medicine and seeing all the other options could also impact their academic performance motivation while in pre-med classes.

But yeah I mean this is what that thread earlier in the week was getting at when talking about top tier school competition vs lower tier competition. The majority of these pre-req classes at Northwestern from my understanding are curved to a B-median(there always rumors that some are actually a C+). That's a 2.75. From that, think about how many people don't maintain that kind of 3.2 GPA. And the competition at Northwestern is fierce, there are no slackers/really mediocre students at State U and many of the people at a school like NU who party a little too hard or don't manage their time well at the beginning are still smart enough to get it together and pull out a solid performance by the end of the semester. So even if it is only 50-60% of the top pre-meds that keep that GPA, it doesn't surprise me. I don't think the people who get accepted to the guaranteed med are really much "smarter" or more intellectually capable than regular NU students, it's other factors that netted them the acceptance.

I always say, if you are good enough to get thrive to the level you need to in college to maintain a conditional acceptance, odds are you are probably good enough to get into med school without that conditional offer. This might be a little different for lower tier BS/MD programs but still I think the point still is true. Now, a number of people who have these conditional acceptances might not do as well on the MCAT as they need to to get into that specific school otherwise(I know a couple of these BS/MD's at Pitt and Northwestern who took the MCAT to see what happens and were in the 31-33 range which wouldn't be competitive if they didn't have the conditional offer) but in general they would get into SOME school.
 
OP
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thanks for repsonding guys. Can anyone direct me or send me a link to a Drexel BS/MD acceptance forum. I want to see the credentials of accepted students so I can get a better idea of what to do.