NYU gen surg residency

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lostndashuffle

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for those who interviewed there, what did you think? is it really as benign as the faculty/residents tried so hard to convince us, or is this something we'll get everywhere we go? any NYU med students care to comment?

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I'm a student here. Without getting into too much details, I wouldn't recommend it.
 
thanks blz. thought it was a little too good to be true. is it true that 3-4 NYU students match into their residency each year? they dont tell us where the residents are from, and that's usually a good telling sign of what the program is like. but i guess people are willing to go through hell to get the good residency name and get a good fellowship.
 
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thanks blz. thought it was a little too good to be true. is it true that 3-4 NYU students match into their residency each year? they dont tell us where the residents are from, and that's usually a good telling sign of what the program is like. but i guess people are willing to go through hell to get the good residency name and get a good fellowship.

No, I would say it would be like 1 max every year or every other year (I don't think any of the students stayed here last year). Most don't want to stay.
 
i interviewed at NYU a few years ago and even did a second look. i really enjoyed both days and ranked them pretty highly. every session during the interview day we were reminded that the reputation of the program was a thing of the past. i ended up not matching there (luckily) and afterward heard from multiple NYU med studs who refused to even interview there based on their incredibly unpleasant experience on their 3rd and 4th year rotations. i have heard that it is still the same now so buyer beware.
 
I have heard that they put on an excellent show on interview day, so much so that many of my friends ranked the program way back when I applied for residency. However, everyone I have talked to from the program (student or resident) has told me that it is unequivocally malignant. I cannot comment on surgical experience, education, or other important factors you have to consider. Also, this was several years ago.
 
I spent a month there and didn't find it that malignant... there were a few off putting things, but mostly minor. I was at Langone and not Bellevue, so I didn't get the true NYU experience. The residents do love Dr. Berman though, and he is a really nice guy, atleast to prospective applicants/away students and the MS4 from NYU that I met while there. The PGY2 on my team was an NYU alumni, and 2 of the interns there are alumni from my med school (as is a pgy3) and they all have drank the coolaid and loved the place. It won't be ranked #1 and probably won't be higher than my home program, but it will be higher than some of the other NYC programs.
 
Well, I'm a student at NYU, graduating this year, and applying general surgery. I'll have to disagree with blz.

First off, whether I would "recommend" NYU isn't really of much value absent any specifics. Where else are you comparing it to? What are you looking for in a program? Etc. I did one away, and have interviewed at 8 places so far. As far as I can tell, NYU has pros and cons, just like every one of those places. The malignancy question has been posed to me by other candidates at everyone of my interviews so far, and I'll say what I say to everyone else. In my experience, it isn't, though I'm not exactly sure how you are defining that term, so it's difficult to speak to it specifically.

From what I know, there are 7 people applying in gen surg this year, and the two that I know well would be interested in staying. I too would have no problem staying, if it weren't for personal reasons that will affect my rank list.
 
First off, whether I would "recommend" NYU isn't really of much value absent any specifics.

I agree that it is difficult to evaluate a program without specifics. As someone who knows the program, can you provide some of those specifics, such as:

How approachable are the faculty? Are they helpful and do they make teaching a priority, or is it a bother to them?

Is the atmosphere such that residents (or students) are afraid to say the wrong thing because they might get their heads bitten off?

What kind of operative experience do the residents have? Is it top heavy or evenly distributed between different years? Do the fellows get in the way of operating on cases?

What about the scut work that residents do because of the nursing unions that people talk about in NYC?

How are the resident didactics? Useful or just mindless powerpoint presentations that folks sleep through? Drawing your own labs, transporting your own patients, etc?

What is the attitude about resident hours?

What's attrition like?​
 
I did a month away there, so I have less perspective but will give you my 2 cents about it.

How approachable are the faculty? Are they helpful and do they make teaching a priority, or is it a bother to them?

When I was there, most the faculty seemed very approachable. I say this because often I would approach them, introduce myself, and ask to scrub the case with them... frequently without a resident. I would say the best Teacher I have had as an attending in any case would be Dr. Heller, who is chief of Endocrine surgery at NYU. Our senior would frequently go into his cases and while Dr. Heller did most of the operating, and most of the teaching was directed towards the student, the resident experience was pretty good. It did vary, some attendings too full of themselves (and anyone who has done that rotation will know who I am referring to without naming names... One of my interviews the PD was an NYU alumni and told me stories about how this attending used to have his wife work as his secretary and they tried to trap residents into bad mouthing one to the other). I also spent a day at Bellvue and scrubed a whipple with Dr. Miller if I remember correctly, who was also incredibly nice and allowed the chief to do a good amount of the case which was a very difficult whipple (14 hours, ended up having to do a gastric-pancreatic anastomosis, intra-op consult to Vascular for possible portal vein reconstruction (not needed)). And the PD (Berman) was loved by the residents and has pretty much an open door policy.

Is the atmosphere such that residents (or students) are afraid to say the wrong thing because they might get their heads bitten off?
I didn't see any of this. From my experience, M&M usually is a place where residents need to tread lightly, be prepared to learn from mistakes and suffer some consequences, but here M&M was too benign for my taste actually. I would have preferred it to be a little more stern and a little more resident run. The residents would present the case and then the chair would present learning points, ask questions and move on if the residents got them wrong. I am used to residents doing learning points and having to answer for mistakes them make. Our team never really rounded with an attending (because we hardly ever had any inpatients on the melanoma, breast cancer, thyroid, parathyroid service), but in teaching sessions it seemed we felt pretty free to answer as we could without fear.

What kind of operative experience do the residents have? Is it top heavy or evenly distributed between different years? Do the fellows get in the way of operating on cases?

I can tell you what I saw and what the residents claimed. I saw the typical private hospital experience. It did vary greatly from attending to attending, from a PGY2 doing pretty much a complete mastectomy with the attending holding suction, to a PGY3 cutting sutures during a 0.5mm melanoma on the arm... The whipple I scrubbed the PGY5 and 3 started without the attending even there, the 5 did most of the Kocherizing, and most of the anastomoses, which i say was comperable with what I have become experienced with seeing the residents do in cases at UMDNJ Newark. The residents claim they were surprised the attending was even in for that much of the whipple, and that, at Bellvue, they operate like crazy. The cases seem to be pretty decently distributed, not top heavy like many of the other NYC programs. There was a fellow on my service (breast), and I never even met them. There were more than enough cases that more went uncovered than there was competition. I can't say more for the other services, but it seems Vascular (which is what my senior wanted to do) is a great resident experience there... CT might be a bit dicy from what I've heard.

What about the scut work that residents do because of the nursing unions that people talk about in NYC?

At Langone (private hospital) the nurses/ancillary staff seemed excellent and there was minimal scut to do. Bellvue is SCUT capital from what I have heard, but I can't comment on to what extent.

How are the resident didactics? Useful or just mindless powerpoint presentations that folks sleep through?

So there is a set up lecture once a week with protected time where there is quizes and what seems like useful presentations. M&M is also very informative, although not as resident driven as I would have liked. Dr. Berman is very proud of his didactics though, and the residents liked them, but I was told that it is still mainly read on your own for learning...

What is the attitude about resident hours?
They have to hand scan in and out, and I didn't see any scan and stay in. Our service was great hours, can't say much about other ones, but I know all 3 of our residents were well under 80 hours for my entire month there.

What's attrition like?
Do you mean like residents staying and not dropping out? Like coming back to work at NYU? I think attrition you can find stats on, but it seemed like they didn't lose anyone. Most the attendings also seemed to be NYU grads.


Hopefully this answered your questions and that some NYU med students can elaborate, contradict, or confirm my ramblings. I spent a month there and at this point will be ranking it within my top 3, Somewhere in the mix with UMDNJ-Newark and Cornell (still have to interview at NYU, Mt. Sinai and Columbia, but don't envision moving any of those top 3 for Sinai and Columbia)
 
Thanks. That's good info. It's too bad programs don't publish answers to those questions.

I also noticed from the website that NYU doesn't offer subsidized housing, but I think Cornell and Columbia do. When I was living in the city, I was paying $2500 for a cramped two-bedroom on the UES. Anyone know how big a deal is not having the subsidized housing?
 
If I remember correctly, NYU pays thousands of dollars more per year than Cornell (not sure about Columbia) so I guess it sort of balances out financially - but you would still have to deal with the pain of finding your own housing at NYU.
 
as a former prelim gen surg intern at nyu (categorical in another dept), i would say that the post by thedrjojo is pretty accurate. not very malignant. residents dont work more than 80 hrs a week. maybe 1-2 rotations where you'd work more than 80 hrs once in a while but rare. operative experience very hit or miss (esp at private hosp tisch). but much better for categorical interns than prelims, who get the **** rotations with little operating and more scut. i think overall it's fairly top heavy - do a lot more cases and big cases as a senior/chief. without bellevue/va where majority of operating is done without significant attending involvement, i think the operative experience would leave fair amount to desire. tisch nurses are pretty good, bellevue has a lot of scut but also a lot of autonomy. overall good group of people, from what i can tell. as for nyu med students not liking the program. have no idea. then again i would say that the med student surgery clerkship pales in comparison to where i went to med school, maybe that's part of it. finally, minimal subsidized housing (it does exist for the lucky few), but not really an issue since we make ~7000-8000 more than other places with subsidized housing (mt sinai, cornell etc)...
 
A brief note on my (admittedly limited) experience at Bellevue: I have seen residents hand scan out and then come back to finish their work- at the behest of attendings, not less. And many of the residents are a bit knowier-than-thou about their knowledge base; it gets rather old rather quickly. Less yelling than the malignancy of old, but I would still not call this a benign program. I did not interview with NYU (rotating there for other reasons), so did not see their dog and pony show.
 
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