NYU vs Columbia vs Duke

[beltedkingfisher]

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Hi!! I'm originally from the southeast, went to undergrad in the northeast, and most likely will want to stay on the east coast for residency. Vaguely interested in pediatrics and IM, but very open to other specialties. Strongly value a friendly/cohesive student body, close mentorship, research, and diverse patient populations (particularly Spanish-speaking). I'll be paying for medical school myself. Thanks sm for reading and giving input!!

NYU (free tuition + $6.5k scholarship = COA $30k/year)

Pros​

• Lots of friends in NYC and close enough to Boston (SO + other friends)
• Good public transportation + subsidized housing options
• Good hospitals for rotation (Tische, Bellevue, VA, etc)
• Great dean/admin support
• Amazing, new facilities + great location in Manhattan

Cons​

• less "prestige" than Duke and Columbia?? (I'm a lil unsure about this whole relative prestige concept)
• Newer 3 year curriculum - I'm actually trying to take 5 years in med school to time residency w/ SO
• tiered clerkship, but current students don't seem stressed by it

Columbia (almost full COA covered!)

Pros​

• ditto all the reasons for NYC as above
• best financial aid offer for sure
• strong clinical training and connections, it seems
• love the 5 free clinics and the Spanish-speaking patient population of Washington Heights
• very interested in narrative medicine
• most prestige??
• VP&S club, lots of opportunities for clubs/hobbies
• good subsidized housing

Cons​

• Tiered clerkship (also heard their clerkship grading is racist, backed by data??)
• Uncertainty with cuts in federal research funding
• Seriously concerned about the complacency in the leadership about sexual harassment cases by physicians/faculty in numerous departments
• Also seriously concerned about Columbia's cooperation w/ gov to deport their own students
• heard preclinical and clerkship were very stressful/intense, even compared to other top med schools

Duke (COA $58k/year, might be able to negotiate for more)

Pros​

• vibed w/ the incoming class the most during visit weekend
• third research year!
• established curriculum (1 yr preclinical)
• P/F clerkship, current students said there's truly no competition all 4 years here
• closer to home/family (still a 6h drive but at least it's drivable)
• strong school spirit / sports culture
• prob cheaper cost of living than NYC
• faculty/educators seemed very invested in their students
• tbh the students here just seemed the most happy

Cons​

• Patient population less diverse compared to NYC, also lacks Spanish-speaking demographic
• will need significantly more loans ($200k over 4 yrs) as of now
• No friends in the area and far from other cities, including SO in Boston
• will need a car, which brings in a lot of additional expenses
• not a fan of Southern springs (too much pollen) and summers (too hot)
• no subsidized housing options from school

Also on WL for Stanford, UCSF, Yale, and UChicago so any input on that would be helpful too!

 

[t10medschoolclassof34]

VPS Student Here. It is by no means a perfect school, but here's my two cents for you:

To be honest, just considering cost, I would say Columbia. However, taking into account the opportunity to graduate in three years at NYU, you would gain significantly more income in that additional year of attendinghood (that said, you mentioned you want to do five years anyway so YMMV)

The narrative medicine component in preclinical is excellent, and when you are in the wards, it is very doable to have your 1-4 patients all be Spanish-speaking. Seriously, it's great for practice. I'm not too sure about how that is at NYU, but I'd imagine it's similar?

I do wish preclinical was only one year. However, if you aren't interested in a highly competitive specialty or plan to do a research year anyway, I'm unsure how much that matters.

to address your cons:

• Tiered clerkship (also heard their clerkship grading is racist, backed by data??)—Graded clerkships are definitely more challenging than pure p/f like at duke or other top schools. There were definitely times in my clinical year where I wished it was P/F lol. W/r/t the "clerkship grading is racist", VPS is very transparent about its grade distribution for clerkships, segmenting by gender and race IIRC, and this is where this rumor came from. My question is, how many other schools actualy run this data and show this to students, I have trouble believe VPS is the only school with grade distributions like this?
• Uncertainty with cuts in federal research funding—Yeah ;/
• Seriously concerned about the complacency in the leadership about sexual harassment cases by physicians/faculty in numerous departments—Yeah ;/
• Also seriously concerned about Columbia's cooperation w/ gov to deport their own students — I don't know if it's fair to put this on the medical school, I mean look what NYU did w/r/t Gender affirming care.
• heard preclinical and clerkship were very stressful/intense, even compared to other top med schools— This is my impression as well. though tbh preclinical was more fatiguing than stressful though, I would expect that to be the case anywhere preclinical is true p/f but who knows perhaps its my stockholm syndrome.

I can't speak to Duke but I think the cost is a real con.

 

[deleted1180326]

To go off the pt about preclinical at VPS vs Duke^, while I sincerely cannot suggest you go to Duke if the cost is that high compared to Columbia but in meeting students at second look, the preclincial curriculumn was hard (as it is everywhere) but students seemed very happy. They literally had an exam that opened friday (or around) of SLW and it closed Monday and the M1s were all with us (as im sure you saw)---thoughts to consider if Duke COA is lower!

@shy_hulud @toastedbutter maybe have better thoughts!

 

[shy_hulud]

To go off the pt about preclinical at VPS vs Duke^, while I sincerely cannot suggest you go to Duke if the cost is that high compared to Columbia but in meeting students at second look, the preclincial curriculumn was hard (as it is everywhere) but students seemed very happy. They literally had an exam that opened friday (or around) of SLW and it closed Monday and the M1s were all with us (as im sure you saw)---thoughts to consider if Duke COA is lower!

@shy_hulud @toastedbutter maybe have better thoughts!

Echoing this, happy to answer any questions about Duke/Columbia (both were in my final list of schools last year). Prestige is also a wash between all of them, Columbia/Duke are the same for med school/residency clout and NYU is right behind em.

I will also say that while true P/F in preclin, clin and take home exams are nice (big reason why so many of us were at SLW), Duke is 100000% not worth 200k more than Columbia or 100k than NYU. There are decent odds they'll be able to up your aid, but I'd for sure count them out if they end up being more than 80k extra over 4 yrs. Your dollar will go further in NC and you'll be able to get a nicer place, but you're right in that you'll need a car.

Love Duke, but I'll also be the first to say that they're not worth that premium over two other, very similar schools.

 

[beltedkingfisher]

Echoing this, happy to answer any questions about Duke/Columbia (both were in my final list of schools last year). Prestige is also a wash between all of them, Columbia/Duke are the same for med school/residency clout and NYU is right behind em.

I will also say that while true P/F in preclin, clin and take home exams are nice (big reason why so many of us were at SLW), Duke is 100000% not worth 200k more than Columbia or 100k than NYU. There are decent odds they'll be able to up your aid, but I'd for sure count them out if they end up being more than 80k extra over 4 yrs. Your dollar will go further in NC and you'll be able to get a nicer place, but you're right in that you'll need a car.

Love Duke, but I'll also be the first to say that they're not worth that premium over two other, very similar schools.

That makes sense, what would you say if hypothetically, Duke is able to match Columbia's aid? (so finances aside)

 

[jvquarterback]

I’m changing my mind. Do the three year nyu program and match where your so ends up. IM and peds are easy to match from any of those programs. You’ll more than make 85k back from saving a year and you’ll get an extra year or two with your so.

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

All of these schools are effectively equal prestige. You should not pay to go to Duke if the only real draw is P/F curriculum (even though P/F is awesome). Some thoughts:

When I was deciding, I was not a fan of Washington Heights. It felt far from my friends in midtown manhattan, loud at night, and still expensive for still not-great housing. Even though I am not part of a demographic that is typically targeted, I still thought the train ride + walk home alone at night at like 12 AM from going out with friends downtown would be sketchy. However, I'm not sure if this is worth $30k to go to a school in a "better" part of NYC.

I think the fact that you want to do 5 years is a point for VPS. You could research (if funding exists lol) or do a MPH/MBA.

n=1 but I have heard roughly the same amount of complaints about NYU being stressful/competitive as I have about Columbia from my friends who go to each school.

I am really not sure what to make of the situation with the government - tbh if I was making my decision now I would be scared but I think I'll leave this to people who actually go to Columbia to comment on. No one really knows what is happening to anyone.

Tldr: Edge to Columbia here.

Current student at Yale so happy to help you make that decision if you get pulled off the WL (or if you want to think about sending an LOI). My SO is actually currently in Boston (was in New Haven for awhile) and the distance doesn't feel bad at all (I actually enjoy the drive). I think the Financial Aid would probably be comparable to Columbia too from what I'm hearing from admitted students (seems like the schools tend to offer similar deals).

 

[beltedkingfisher]

VPS Student Here. It is by no means a perfect school, but here's my two cents for you:

To be honest, just considering cost, I would say Columbia. However, taking into account the opportunity to graduate in three years at NYU, you would gain significantly more income in that additional year of attendinghood (that said, you mentioned you want to do five years anyway so YMMV)

The narrative medicine component in preclinical is excellent, and when you are in the wards, it is very doable to have your 1-4 patients all be Spanish-speaking. Seriously, it's great for practice. I'm not too sure about how that is at NYU, but I'd imagine it's similar?

I do wish preclinical was only one year. However, if you aren't interested in a highly competitive specialty or plan to do a research year anyway, I'm unsure how much that matters.

to address your cons:




I can't speak to Duke but I think the cost is a real con.

Thanks so much, your insight as a current VP&S student was super helpful! How would you say your relationships with physicians/preceptors were during your MCY?

 

[beltedkingfisher]

I’m changing my mind. Do the three year nyu program and match where your so ends up. IM and peds are easy to match from any of those programs. You’ll more than make 85k back from saving a year and you’ll get an extra year or two with your so.

Ooh that's a very interesting idea, haven't considered that before. I think I want to prioritize matching to the same place over getting an extra year with SO in med school and risking them matching to a dif place after (since they don't know what specialty they're going for yet). Def will consider that tho, thanks!

 

[beltedkingfisher]

All of these schools are effectively equal prestige. You should not pay to go to Duke if the only real draw is P/F curriculum (even though P/F is awesome). Some thoughts:

When I was deciding, I was not a fan of Washington Heights. It felt far from my friends in midtown manhattan, loud at night, and still expensive for still not-great housing. Even though I am not part of a demographic that is typically targeted, I still thought the train ride + walk home alone at night at like 12 AM from going out with friends downtown would be sketchy. However, I'm not sure if this is worth $30k to go to a school in a "better" part of NYC.

I think the fact that you want to do 5 years is a point for VPS. You could research (if funding exists lol) or do a MPH/MBA.

n=1 but I have heard roughly the same amount of complaints about NYU being stressful/competitive as I have about Columbia from my friends who go to each school.

I am really not sure what to make of the situation with the government - tbh if I was making my decision now I would be scared but I think I'll leave this to people who actually go to Columbia to comment on. No one really knows what is happening to anyone.

Tldr: Edge to Columbia here.

Current student at Yale so happy to help you make that decision if you get pulled off the WL (or if you want to think about sending an LOI). My SO is actually currently in Boston (was in New Haven for awhile) and the distance doesn't feel bad at all (I actually enjoy the drive). I think the Financial Aid would probably be comparable to Columbia too from what I'm hearing from admitted students (seems like the schools tend to offer similar deals).

Thanks for your thoughts! Very very helpful 😀

 

[jvquarterback]

Ooh that's a very interesting idea, haven't considered that before. I think I want to prioritize matching to the same place over getting an extra year with SO in med school and risking them matching to a dif place after (since they don't know what specialty they're going for yet). Def will consider that tho, thanks!

Sounds like your SO will be matriculating a year after you. So if you graduate in three years you'll match and do R1 while they're M3. If you're in the same city at that point, which should be easy in PEDS or IM you get two years with them then (maybe they take 5 years or do a local prelim year nearby). Worst case your SO doesn't match the same city for your R3 their R1 and you're apart 4 years rather than 5 for your med school if you take an extra year (though hopefully just 3 or even better they go to school in NYC and it's only one year apart). Plus your career is off to a two year head start. I think that's your best course of action if you're set on PEDS/IM.

 

[shy_hulud]

That makes sense, what would you say if hypothetically, Duke is able to match Columbia's aid? (so finances aside)

At least in my opinion, Duke's curriculum is def the best of three, unless you're 100% set on doing the NYU 3 yr IM path (unfort Duke doesn't offer that yet). Weather is also the best, alongside ease of accessing interdisciplinary opportunities, and NC will be "easier" living than NYC, esp if you have a car. Durham also has a really big, tight-knit spanish-speaking population (esp in east and south Durham), so you will 100% find that community here, alongside a really diverse patient population. Not quite at the level of NYC, but I'm from a big city and Durham's diversity is right up there.

My decision last year was a bit simpler because Duke was cheaper than Columbia, but I think even at the same price, I would have chosen Duke again. Now with that said, I didn't have the same amount of ties in the NE as you do and, thinking strategically, your SO will have more med school options in the NE when they apply. RDU is a fantastic airport and there are a ton of short, cheap flights to the NE, but that's obv not as convenient if you're in NYC and your SO ends up in Boston, Philly, etc

 

[shy_hulud]

Does the yet imply that there has been discussion at the school about offering a 3 year pathway? (I have a similar choice of NYU vs Duke)

Duke actually used to offer a 3-year pathway (primarily geared for ortho) but it ended just before COVID. There have been conversations to make M3 year tuition-free, which would allow them to offer a 3-year pathway again, but I wouldn't bank on it happening while you or I are in med school.