NYU vs. WashU vs. Hopkins vs. UC Irvine

[mbs16861]

I am very split because my two biggest goals long-term are to #1 be in California, and #2 stay in academics. However, it feels like I have to choose one or the other right now with my school choices. Cost is not a major factor for me at the moment.

Not certain about specialty yet but interests right now are neurology, radiology (specifically neuroradiology), anesthesia, or infectious diseases - pretty broad so not weighing that too heavily. I do know I am generally not interested in surgical specialties.

NYU ($0 tuition, ~30-35k/per year total)
Pros

• Prestige and all accompanying connections/resources
• Highly diverse patient population at Bellevue
• Lots of research funding + resources
• Great location in NYC
• Seems like good mentorship is available based on feedback from students?
• The on-campus housing situation is decent for NYC
• Have family and friends in NYC

Cons

• AOA
• Graded clinicals
• NYC in my opinion has more fast-paced, uptight people
• Higher cost of living if I decide to move off-campus
• Have never been a huge city person - excited at idea of trying NYC but also not sure how much I will actually enjoy it
• Will still be aiming to match back to California and most recent match list doesn't actually seem all that strong

Impression: Lots of big positives (research, great city, support) but I have several big hangups (want to match to CA, not sure if NYC is a perfect fit for me).

WashU (~50k/year total)
Pros

• Prestige and accompanying connections
• Plenty of research opportunities
• Really liked the people at second look
• Curriculum seems well-thought out and admin is responsive to feedback
• Much less expensive cost of living, although still paying about half tuition
• Functionally P/F clinicals

Cons

• No family/support in St. Louis
• Will eventually want to be matching to California

Impression: Overall seems like a great place to attend, although I don't feel super drawn to it because of location and having no family/support nearby.

Hopkins (~60k/year total)
Pros

• Top-tier prestige and accompanying connections
• Excellent matching
• Tons of research
• Family in the area
• Mentorship seems very strong

Cons

• I have experience living in Baltimore, would much prefer CA or NYC
• Don't know yet if it will be P/F clinicals or not
• I don't feel that connected to the class culture

Impression: If I were looking for maximum career elevation and the surest shot into academics, I'd go here. Don't want to have to sacrifice quality of life to do so though, and I think my QoL would be lower here than elsewhere.


UC Irvine (~60k/year total)
Pros

• Amazing location
• Culture feels like a good fit for my personality
• Matches almost all of their class to the West Coast
• I have a very strong desire to stay on the West Coast for med school and beyond
• Partner is living in SoCal, lots of other family within driving range

Cons

• Curriculum seems outdated? Not totally P/F preclinical
• Probably not as flush with research opportunities as WashU/NYU, although I am very willing to seek them out if necessary
• Overall much less prestigious

Impression: Everything about the location and fit makes me believe I would be happiest here. My only misgiving is that the lower status/prestige of the school would inhibit my future career aspirations in academics.


Summary: I am struggling to balance quality of life and likelihood of staying in California with prestige and my goal to stay in academics. To be clear, matching to a mid/top tier academic institution in CA (Stanford, UCSF, UCSD, UCLA) would be preferable to me to matching at pretty much anywhere on the East Coast. For whichever school that I go to, my number one goal will be to match at any of the above UCs/Stanford. I am quite confident my quality of life would be best at UCI, but I am worried that I would be limiting my residency prospects by going there. However, if what I care about most for matching is staying in CA, then maybe on the whole UCI actually is better for my residency outlook anyway.

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[scarletspeedsterMD]

Hopkins or NYU but I’m leaning towards NYU since cheaper. Don’t worry, you’ll be able to match back into CA at either schools.

 

[mangowolf]

Hopkins will give you the best shot at matching into a California residency. You will have no issue returning to CA provided you do well there. It may seem like some aspects of Hopkins will decrease your quality of life but I imagine once residency apps roll around and you have the LORs and research and prestige boost that Hopkins will afford you — that in itself is a quality of life boost!

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

I just saw the schools and their price tags and know to tell you that UCI should not be on the list.

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Hopkins or NYU. I’d say NYU bc I don’t think Hopkins is a 100k+ worthy upgrade.

IMHO UCI has no business being on this list without a full ride. Congrats on a STELLAR cycle and good luck!!

 

[indecisiveconvention]

Congrats!! I'd say you should seriously consider WashU - it has fewer cons for you than NYU and is cheaper than Hopkins; unlike the other schools you listed it doesn't have AOA, which is a huge bonus come clinical years; you will have no trouble matching back to CA (lots of kids do it every year); and STL is a wonderful city that isn't overwhelming like NYC and is located in a safer neighborhood than JHU.

 

[Ezryk]

I think this is an issue of short vs. long-term gain. If your ultimate goal is to match into one of the CA schools you mentioned for residency, I'd wager that any of schools listed would give you a great shot. If you want to be in CA during med school and enjoy the pros you listed during a tough time in your training (which is totally fine!), UCI is the best choice. From comparing match lists, I think you could definitely match UCLA or UCSD coming from UCI, but it might be more of an uphill battle compared to the other choices on your list. Plus, if you develop an interest in a competitive specialty late in the game, which is really where top-tier name recognition helps, I think you would have a tougher time coming from UCI. PM me if you'd like to chat more!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Hopkins will maximize your chance of moving back to CA.

 

[mbs16861]

Hopkins will give you the best shot at matching into a California residency. You will have no issue returning to CA provided you do well there. It may seem like some aspects of Hopkins will decrease your quality of life but I imagine once residency apps roll around and you have the LORs and research and prestige boost that Hopkins will afford you — that in itself is a quality of life boost!

That is true that I should be able to match back into a top CA program from Hopkins, but my understanding is that I will probably have to demonstrate a lot of interest by doing away rotations and ranking them highly - which is something I'd be doing from UC Irvine anyway. I understand that my alternative options outside of CA will probably be limited at UCI compared to Hopkins, but that is something I think I am willing to sacrifice for the QoL difference. My main concern is that I am misjudging how likely I would be to match into CA from UCI vs. other top tiers, but the UCI match list does give me some confidence in that they matched about 20% of their graduates into UCs/Stanford, which is similar to Hopkins and a better rate than WashU/NYU

 

[mbs16861]

I think this is an issue of short vs. long-term gain. If your ultimate goal is to match into one of the CA schools you mentioned for residency, I'd wager that any of schools listed would give you a great shot. If you want to be in CA during med school and enjoy the pros you listed during a tough time in your training (which is totally fine!), UCI is the best choice. From comparing match lists, I think you could definitely match UCLA or UCSD coming from UCI, but it might be more of an uphill battle compared to the other choices on your list. Plus, if you develop an interest in a competitive specialty late in the game, which is really where top-tier name recognition helps, I think you would have a tougher time coming from UCI. PM me if you'd like to chat more!

I take your point about the more competitive specialties. I do not see myself entering a procedure/surgery-based specialty but it's true that could change. If I were shooting for derm, ophtho, etc. I definitely agree that coming from a top tier is more important than coming from CA.

Hypothetically, taking a not-as crazy competitive specialty such as neurology, would it be fair to say that if I went to UCI and focused all my efforts (summer research, away rotations) on getting to UCSF/Stanford, that I would have close to the same chance of matching to one of those if I went to Hopkins/NYU/WashU and dedicated a similar amount of focus towards getting back to CA? If this would be true, I believe I would be happier going to UCI.

 

[mangowolf]

That is true that I should be able to match back into a top CA program from Hopkins, but my understanding is that I will probably have to demonstrate a lot of interest by doing away rotations and ranking them highly - which is something I'd be doing from UC Irvine anyway. I understand that my alternative options outside of CA will probably be limited at UCI compared to Hopkins, but that is something I think I am willing to sacrifice for the QoL difference. My main concern is that I am misjudging how likely I would be to match into CA from UCI vs. other top tiers, but the UCI match list does give me some confidence in that they matched about 20% of their graduates into UCs/Stanford, which is similar to Hopkins and a better rate than WashU/NYU

Couple of things. One, if UCI and Hopkins have similar percents going to UCs and Stanford, Hopkins definitely makes it easier to match to CA. think about it, more people at Irvine probably want to stay in CA (I’d say majority of class easily since it’s a state school) whereas at Hopkins, a bunch of people probably want to stay at Hopkins or Mass Gen or whatever. What that means is probably a vast majority of people at Hopkins who want to go to a UC or Stanford get to do so whereas a lot of people at Irvine miss out. It is just inaccurate to think that the geographical bias of being at Irvine will give you a leg up over Hopkins. Maybe if we were talking UCSF vs. Hopkins or possibly (but not even the ) UCLA vs Hopkins then yes it makes sense to turn down Hopkins. But the huge divide in prestige between Hopkins and Irvine is just so large compared to the advantage of having a geographic tie. TLDR you absolutely are misjudging the likelihood of matching to CA from Irvine compared to Hopkins. If you want to be in California for residency then the advantage is bigger at Hopkins, end of story.

I’m also curious as to why you want to be in California for residency. Is it your SO’s family? You went to school there? Other family there? As long as you can demonstrate a good reason why you personally want to be in CA besides “I love it there” then leaving to Hopkins for med school won’t be an issue in terms of signaling geographic preference. Plus as you mentioned the aways will help.

 

[mbs16861]

Couple of things. One, if UCI and Hopkins have similar percents going to UCs and Stanford, Hopkins definitely makes it easier to match to CA. think about it, more people at Irvine probably want to stay in CA (I’d say majority of class easily since it’s a state school) whereas at Hopkins, a bunch of people probably want to stay at Hopkins or Mass Gen or whatever. What that means is probably a vast majority of people at Hopkins who want to go to a UC or Stanford get to do so whereas a lot of people at Irvine miss out. It is just inaccurate to think that the geographical bias of being at Irvine will give you a leg up over Hopkins. Maybe if we were talking UCSF vs. Hopkins or possibly (but not even the ) UCLA vs Hopkins then yes it makes sense to turn down Hopkins. But the huge divide in prestige between Hopkins and Irvine is just so large compared to the advantage of having a geographic tie. TLDR you absolutely are misjudging the likelihood of matching to CA from Irvine compared to Hopkins. If you want to be in California for residency then the advantage is bigger at Hopkins, end of story.

I’m also curious as to why you want to be in California for residency. Is it your SO’s family? You went to school there? Other family there? As long as you can demonstrate a good reason why you personally want to be in CA besides “I love it there” then leaving to Hopkins for med school won’t be an issue in terms of signaling geographic preference. Plus as you mentioned the aways will help.

Understood, makes sense that for two people whose first choice is Stanford/UCSF, the person from Hopkins is more likely to get it than the person from Irvine.

Personally there's a lot of little reasons why I prefer California - siblings live there, SO's family lives there, and my mental health is hugely improved from outdoors/in the sun every day (I know this because I moved to CA for gap years). However, my family is originally from East Coast, and that's where I grew up/went to college. So it feels like if I don't make the jump to California now I might get boxed out in the future.

 

[mangowolf]

Understood, makes sense that for two people whose first choice is Stanford/UCSF, the person from Hopkins is more likely to get it than the person from Irvine.

Personally there's a lot of little reasons why I prefer California - siblings live there, SO's family lives there, and my mental health is hugely improved from outdoors/in the sun every day (I know this because I moved to CA for gap years). However, my family is originally from East Coast, and that's where I grew up/went to college. So it feels like if I don't make the jump to California now I might get boxed out in the future.

I totally get it lol I literally have zero intention of ever leaving California, god willing. You will not get boxed out of California coming from Hopkins, though. You kind of have to think about Hopkins as a short term investment to reap rewards when it comes to match day. Suck up the cold weather and being in a place you don’t love, but know that it’ll give you the reward of having your pick of residencies in California in four years. Since you have concrete and multiple ties to CA, PDs will have no trouble believing you really want to move to CA for residency, and once they see the Hopkins name on your app, that’ll be another huge boost. Hopefully having family in the area could mitigate some of your stress during med school, and perhaps your SO could come with you (?).

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Understood, makes sense that for two people whose first choice is Stanford/UCSF, the person from Hopkins is more likely to get it than the person from Irvine.

Personally there's a lot of little reasons why I prefer California - siblings live there, SO's family lives there, and my mental health is hugely improved from outdoors/in the sun every day (I know this because I moved to CA for gap years). However, my family is originally from East Coast, and that's where I grew up/went to college. So it feels like if I don't make the jump to California now I might get boxed out in the future.

sorry, it's a huge step down from Hopkins to UCI. You would have to fight tooth and nail at UCI to match at top California programs. Its preclinical is graded! It has a very very gunnery culture among top students there. If you go to Hopkins, you will be able to sleepwalk into a Top-ish CA program (depending on how competitive the specialty you choose).

 

[mbs16861]

I totally get it lol I literally have zero intention of ever leaving California, god willing. You will not get boxed out of California coming from Hopkins, though. You kind of have to think about Hopkins as a short term investment to reap rewards when it comes to match day. Suck up the cold weather and being in a place you don’t love, but know that it’ll give you the reward of having your pick of residencies in California in four years. Since you have concrete and multiple ties to CA, PDs will have no trouble believing you really want to move to CA for residency, and once they see the Hopkins name on your app, that’ll be another huge boost. Hopefully having family in the area could mitigate some of your stress during med school, and perhaps your SO could come with you (?).

Unfortunately SO will also be in med school in CA 🙁

But yeah this is definitely true, I think if I go Hopkins it will be with the short term investment mindset. Any opinion on if it would be significantly different odds of matching to CA from Hopkins vs. NYU or WashU? Can't help but think Hopkins is probably the best shot.

 

[mangowolf]

Unfortunately SO will also be in med school in CA 🙁

But yeah this is definitely true, I think if I go Hopkins it will be with the short term investment mindset. Any opinion on if it would be significantly different odds of matching to CA from Hopkins vs. NYU or WashU? Can't help but think Hopkins is probably the best shot.

Hopkins >>>WashU>NYU

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

Unfortunately SO will also be in med school in CA 🙁

But yeah this is definitely true, I think if I go Hopkins it will be with the short term investment mindset. Any opinion on if it would be significantly different odds of matching to CA from Hopkins vs. NYU or WashU? Can't help but think Hopkins is probably the best shot.

Dude, literally every school on your list has near 10/10 match back to CA potential. The NYU kids just realized the East Coast was a whole lot better 😉

Seriously though, you’ll just need to network a bit and maybe connect with the program directors in CA earlier on. Perhaps away rotations there if possible. That’s something the large majority of med students face anyway, so I wouldn’t stress so hard about that. It’s not like you’d be at an east coast state school or anything lol. I agree with the aforementioned idea that it will likely be easier to match to top CA programs from a top med school.

 

[crimson-cat]

Unless you're willing to trade career prestige/potential upside (academically, not salary wise) for happiness, which is a totally fair thing to do, I'd cross UCI off the list. From there unless you really want NYC, I'd go WashU or Hopkins since if you're going for strong match/prestige might as well go for one of the two most historic programs in the country whose faculties are chalk full of clinical leaders. Honestly think WashU could be a good spot for you if you want a city that's fun but smaller with a nicer vibe than the East Coast and warmer than NYC/Baltimore.