O.D. vs. M.D.

[Hines302]

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Hello All,

I am a senior currently applying to Optometry school hoping to enter in fall of 2006. Recently I have been having second thoughts about choosing becoming an O.D. over an M.D. After reading some of the messages about the optometry profession I am more worried now than ever. I have read that the profession is "changing for the worse" that it’s "dying" and that Optometrist are nothing more than a "glorified technicians".

After reading this I am afraid that the profession will not give the opportunity to practice how I wish. I had hoped to be an O.D. with a specialty (maybe in Ocular Diseases) and have the opportunity to work in a clinic where I would get to see lots of pathology. However, after reading everything that was said about the profession I am starting to think I should have taken the MCATs. I know it’s a little late in the game for feelings like these, but I would really like any input anyone might have. Thanks

Erich

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Hello All,

I am a senior currently applying to Optometry school hoping to enter in fall of 2006. Recently I have been having second thoughts about choosing becoming an O.D. over an M.D. After reading some of the messages about the optometry profession I am more worried now than ever. I have read that the profession is "changing for the worse" that it’s "dying" and that Optometrist are nothing more than a "glorified technicians".

After reading this I am afraid that the profession will not give the opportunity to practice how I wish. I had hoped to be an O.D. with a specialty (maybe in Ocular Diseases) and have the opportunity to work in a clinic where I would get to see lots of pathology. However, after reading everything that was said about the profession I am starting to think I should have taken the MCATs. I know it’s a little late in the game for feelings like these, but I would really like any input anyone might have. Thanks

Erich

Optometry is hardly a dying profession. If anything, I'd say that more and more people are going to optometrists. Simple reason: many insurance policies now come with a vision plan and most MD's don't accept these vision plans. Most patients, then, get their primary care from an OD. Now that the patients are coming to you, assuming they like you, the patients will continue to see you for any pathology that may develop. However, if you REALLY want to see lots of pathology, lots of MDs are hiring ODs to work with them. These MDs spend a good bit of time in surgery and let the ODs see the pre- and post-op patients as well as any medically controlled pathology.

Short answer: optometry is not dying, and it is possible to get lots of pathology if you want.

Don't worry about what outsiders say, talk to practicing ODs about what life is like and what their practicing situation is like. Dr. Chudner and Jenny are two of the best resources about (if anyone else has been in practice for awhile, please chime in... I don't mean to leave anyone out).

 

[kiseki]

Hello All,

I am a senior currently applying to Optometry school hoping to enter in fall of 2006. Recently I have been having second thoughts about choosing becoming an O.D. over an M.D. After reading some of the messages about the optometry profession I am more worried now than ever. I have read that the profession is "changing for the worse" that it’s "dying" and that Optometrist are nothing more than a "glorified technicians".

After reading this I am afraid that the profession will not give the opportunity to practice how I wish. I had hoped to be an O.D. with a specialty (maybe in Ocular Diseases) and have the opportunity to work in a clinic where I would get to see lots of pathology. However, after reading everything that was said about the profession I am starting to think I should have taken the MCATs. I know it’s a little late in the game for feelings like these, but I would really like any input anyone might have. Thanks

Erich

Hi Erich!

I'm also going to be a senior applying for optometry school who's interested in the Ocular Diseases specialty! 😉 I think people who think the profession is dying are concerned because they feel that the large corporate companies are going to take over - but I think private practice is still thriving and optometry is still a great field, but it really depends on what you're looking for. I shadowed an ophthalmologist for a few weeks at the glaucoma clinic in Jules Stein and met a few of the fellows. I think it's really interesting that they get to do eye surgery and study so many different pathologies, and while I'm interested in the subject, I honestly don't want to be an ophthalmologist - I'm not interested in doing surgery. Also, the pace in the clinic is just so fast and seems so stressful; the doctor sees the patient for approximately 20 minutes - which is great considering he's being efficient etc., and then speeds over to the next exam room. I realize that that's not the kind of environment I would want to work in, so in the end I still want to be an optometrist. 🙂

If you really want to do medicine because you have a passion for it - I think you should go for it! (I honestly dreaded the idea of med school...which means I couldn't be an ophthalmologist anyway hehee 😛 But I had seriously thought about med school instead and asked people about it too.) But if you're just concerned about the profession, maybe rethink what you really want to do and why you considered optometry in the first place, and ask around and I'm sure you'll find that not everyone's thinking that the optometry is "dying."

Oh, also, take some time to decide now because I don't think it's that late in the game. It's better now than wanting to be M.D. after 4 years of optometry, right? 😉 Best of luck on whichever path you decide to take~!

 

[vtrain]

In general everyday practice, optometrists do not see much pathology. Even working with an ophthalmologist, you will be relegated to the less invasive cases. Do not go into optometry with the intention of practicing ocular disease because in real life, it just doesn't happen. 9/10 patients will be refractive in nature and the challenges that you face will largely be delegated to this realm. If you want to see "lots of pathology" do ophthalmology.

...and no, optometry is not dying but it is changing, and perhaps not for the better. This goes for medicine, pharmacy, NP etc too. But for some reason dentistry has managed to maintain it's turf. I think we have to take a lesson from this profession.

 

[still_confused]

yupyup, i too recently struggled with the question, though it started more with my parents demanding that i become a "real doctor" and get my behind into a medical school or else

whatever a "glorified technician" may do, get paid, or is percieved as in society, the real question is "do you want to do it?" i doubt optometrist as primary care caretakers of the eye will lose that role, they might lose pay, prestige, but the current role of refracting and treating mild eye diseases should remain the same.
ill leave the future at that, since i do not know the profession like others on this board, ill let them answer the techinical details

back to being a MD! why did you pick to optometry as a profession?
is it:
a) my grades suck and an OD is a cop out , in this case, take a year off get a master/job improve your candidacy and apply next year! for awhile i thought this was the reason i subconciously chose optometry, but my grades are not that bad ~3.5 and i work at the hospital and have lots of stuff med school want to see listed on my application
b) $$$$$$ in this case MD !
c) $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ neither, MBA or CPA might be your better bet
d) as what most list on this board, helping others see better, not being on call, decent lifestyle , then i think you will be happy as an OD , regardless of what happens in the future


in all seriousness, be honest with yourself, and DO NOT base your decision on what people put on the internet! if you do might as well as get ready for UFO landings and other conspiracies the internet is abudant with. not saying that optometry has serious problems or hiding my head in the sand, many on this board LOVE and are SUCCESSFUL as ODs and many of them just graduated! if its bad, they should be the first running out the door when they realize they get paid nothing and do nothing (kinda what i do at my current job ^^)
people are free to post what they feel on the internet and we should listen as examples to help us make our decsion, but it should not be the only source. what drew you into optometry? im guessing like others we visited optometrists, research the profession, talk to current and future opt students as well as search ourselves for what we want. having a internet forum outweigh all the other factors is not just irrespondsible but dangerous!

im guessing that if you chose optometry, that you would do opth if you do med school (if not then go to med school and see what you like as you clearly are not that interested in visual sciences) if that is the case, you will still be able to do everything optometrist do and if the extra four years are worth the M instead of the O, go for it!

there are many paths to success (i like this term alot for some reason) and for many on this board OD is it, for others MD is the way to go, still for others they got on the OD road and disliked it and are seeking yet another road (different practice styles, whine, etc) OD is NOT the way to get rich and famous it never was meant to be ^^

to be fair, i respect MDs alot and if i felt that my abilities would be best spent there i woulud do med school in an instant. also, i have taken some health services classes that describe the current blight of the medical profession (HMOs, capitulation, slow/no reimburstment, and the ever dreaded increasing power of the insurance companies(affects opts as well)), the grass is always greener on the other side, or is it?? regardless, the grass is quite green on the opt side as well.

good luck to you ! i did alot of thinking/soulsearching/meditating and i still chose to be an OD, i hope you do the same and figure out what you want to do!



PS: i was just thinking, if i was a current OD and facing a saturated market, i would also go on forums to discourage new ODs in an effort to lower my competition!!!!! hehe (my premed personality is coming out)

 

[Ben Chudner]

Short answer: optometry is not dying, and it is possible to get lots of pathology if you want.

I would agree. The need for eyecare continues to increase in this country. It is expected that optometrists' market share (relative to ophthalmologists) of the total eyecare market will increase to 70%.

As far as pathology, private practice OD's do see pathology, but not to the same extent as OMD's. As an optometrist who completed an ocular disease residency and has a great working relationship with the local OMD's I rarely have to refer out pathology until it becomes beyond my scope of practice. That being said, I saw a lot more pathology when I worked for a group OD/OMD practice. In the VA system, you will see even more pathology. So, if you want to see it, there is a job to accommodate you.

What you need to look at is whether or not you want to become a surgeon. I do not anticipate a time when the majority OD's will do anything other than very minor procedures such as removing foreign bodies. It can still be very rewarding (and for me it is), but if surgery is your thing, become an ophthalmologist.

Good luck.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

What is the downside of being an ophthalmologist? If I had to do it all over again i'd go to b school. But if I wanted to stay in the health profession I WOULD GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. MEDICAL SCHOOL =UNLIMITED LICENSE, which means do whatever you want.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

What is the downside of being an ophthalmologist? If I had to do it all over again i'd go to b school. But if I wanted to stay in the health profession I WOULD GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. MEDICAL SCHOOL =UNLIMITED LICENSE, which means do whatever you want.

Yep, all those family docs doing cataract surgery. Good ole unlimited license.

 

[r_salis]

Yep, all those family docs doing cataract surgery. Good ole unlimited license.

I think he meant all those ear, nose and throat doctors doing open heart surgery.

Or maybe he just meant MD = opening to many types of specialties. 😉

 

[sco1styear]

What is the downside of being an ophthalmologist? If I had to do it all over again i'd go to b school. But if I wanted to stay in the health profession I WOULD GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. MEDICAL SCHOOL =UNLIMITED LICENSE, which means do whatever you want.

What's the deal with people thinking you will make good money if you major in business? I know tons of people who get out of school with a business degree and struggle to find ANY job. There are only so many ceo positions available

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

Yep, all those family docs doing cataract surgery. Good ole unlimited license.

how about family docs doing botox ? how about gen. ophthalmologist doing cosmetic surgery?

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

What's the deal with people thinking you will make good money if you major in business? I know tons of people who get out of school with a business degree and struggle to find ANY job. There are only so many ceo positions available

not if you major in business if you work in finance or work on wall st. ex. ib, traders, analsts you have no idea how much money they make.

 

[aphistis]

not if you major in business if you work in finance or work on wall st. ex. ib, traders, analsts you have no idea how much money they make.

Nor, conversely, do you appear to realize how few of those positions exist relative to the number of business degrees being churned out each year.

 

[Canadian26]

I was debating this question as well... If your going to med just for salary reasons, the average salary of a physician is very similar to that of an OD. For me personally, I would only go into med if I could specalize, and the truth is there isnt that many specality positions avaliable (atleast not in canada, at my current school theres is only 1 spot open for some specalizites). To me I find the idea of 4 years of school more appealing, than being in school for another 8+, and I really dont think I have the stomach for surgery.

What I would suggest doing, is actually going out and talking to practicing ODs and MDS. You hear alot of talk about on this forum about how OD's hate their profession, thats actually true of alot of MDS as well. My specialist told me that if she had to do it over agian she wouldnt have done med. Just gather as much information as possible on both subjects, then make your decision.

Your not to late IMO to write your MCAT, write the april sitting you should have your results by June... it might be cutting it close, but if you have to wait a year to get in, it might be worth it, if you find thats what you really want to do.

 

[sia_simba]

Hello,

No offense to those that mock medicine for its diversity and unlimited practicing power. But for your information, some family practioners do OB/gyn, cardiology, etc. It just depends on which part of the country you live in. You are comparing specialties, of course an engineer can't practice law, or a bus driver can't fly airplanes.

What I think the original poster meant is that if he chooses medicine, he will have a variety of choices in the field of medicine... and for that I think he is completely right. Starting 4th year medical school, you will have to decide whether you want to go into dermatology, opthamology, surgery, medicine, OB/gyn, EM, etc. I don't think doing optometry you can have all those choices do you ?

Also... going into business, or getting a CPA, don't mean you will get a job!!!

Right now for medical school, you go through 4 years of school, same as optometry. When you do your residency, salary ranges from $35,000 to $60,000. That is 3 years of pay. After residency, depending on what field you want, Anesthesiology will earn you a good $250-300k, internal medicine $150k, ER $175k, cardiology $250k, etc. The list goes on and on. These fields are for people being a hospitalist in NYC. If you go south or midwest, or even doing private practice... you're salary goes up by a lot.

There will be people in their fields that hate their fields... don't suck up their negative energy. If you really want to do something more than just EYE, or TEETH, then go into medicine. Your choices ARE unlimited!!!!!

 

[still_confused]

"There will be people in their fields that hate their fields... don't suck up their negative energy. If you really want to do something more than just EYE, or TEETH, then go into medicine. Your choices ARE unlimited!!!!!"


yeah i think people lose sight of that when they try to compare opt and med, when you do opt you are dealing with the eye and eye only, not cancer or chronic care, you do opt because you have read the job description and realize it is for you, if not you are wasting time and money.

its shocking for me to see people go "do med school you get more money" and "do med school, so you and you can do whatever you want" being a MD is not a degree that gives you a blank check to do whatever you want. doctors specialize and perform the job that they are TRAINED to do , and that is an optometrist's role as well. just do what you are trained to do! so i think that if you have to debate between OD and MD, you should do MD, you are still wishy washy and the MD experience will allow you to find your favorite field, leaving opt school for those that has set thier heart on being an OD.


so sia_simba 👍

 

[Sanman]

Alright, I really have to weigh in on this point. Many of you believe that you have a lot of options if you go MD, but be careful. I have known too many people who think that way and been burned. Realize that your options are limited by grades and such. If you are interested in the eye but are unsure, be aware that unless you are a top student in med school, you may not be able to match into ophtho. That also goes for fields like rads, derm,ortho, and soon anesth and EM. Each person knows his/her own attitude and work ethic. If you were an average college student who did relatively well, don't go to med school planning on a derm residency because you will be disappointed. So, for those lured by med school who are really interested in the eye, keep that in mind. If you are alright w/ fields like neuro,IM,peds, possibly EM, FM, etc., then by all means go to med school. Just don't chase a pipe dream.

 

[concord]

Thanks for the thumbs-up still_confused. =) You are right in what you said as well.

Sanman... you are right to a certain extent... there are limitations in what you are ABLE to do, but not in what you can do. Everyone who goes into medicine have a equal chance in going into derm, EM, ortho, etc. However, it is their work ethics and grades that will carry them there. Like I said... if its something you really want, you will be able to do it as long as you work hard for it. But different from opt school in this case is becasue the person is unsure. hey.. maybe he might like optometry for now, but decides later on its not for him... then whats he going to do ? drop out after 3 years ? Whereas in medicine, If you thought you wanted to go into opt. and 3 yrs down the line, you decided you like pediatrics... you can still switch and not waste 3 yrs of your education, time, and money (as long as profession is still being a medical doctor).

You are right though, grades are important, but every intern that I've talked said you have to shine during your rotation. Funny thing is... one of my friend's brother got offered a residency spot in surgery during his 3rd yr rotation... now that is VERY VERY RARE.. but it happens. So to say... grades don't mean as much doing medicine... its WHO YOU KNOW! Sad but true. I also know a lot of people getting anesthesiology spots with average scores, but they did well on their rotation and knew the right people.

 

[sia_simba]

SORRY BUT the ABOVE THREAD WAS POSTED BY ME!!!

 

[drmhyde]

Hello All,

I am a senior currently applying to Optometry school hoping to enter in fall of 2006. Recently I have been having second thoughts about choosing becoming an O.D. over an M.D. After reading some of the messages about the optometry profession I am more worried now than ever. I have read that the profession is "changing for the worse" that it’s "dying" and that Optometrist are nothing more than a "glorified technicians".

After reading this I am afraid that the profession will not give the opportunity to practice how I wish. I had hoped to be an O.D. with a specialty (maybe in Ocular Diseases) and have the opportunity to work in a clinic where I would get to see lots of pathology. However, after reading everything that was said about the profession I am starting to think I should have taken the MCATs. I know it’s a little late in the game for feelings like these, but I would really like any input anyone might have. Thanks

Erich

That's complete BS! Really. Optometry is good my friend!! We have never been better than where we sit right now!!! (scope of practice, insurance panels, etc.)
I just read the median income (in private practice) for an OD went up this year to $160,000.
If you want to do surgery...go to medical school, MAYBE get matched in an ophthamology residency program (if you can get in). So a total time of 7-8 yrs you will be an OMD and you too my freind can look down your nose at us for silly reasons..oh yeah and make about the same $$ unless you do cataracts and LASIK all day long. OR>>>> be an OD and be out in four years, do a residency if you want, hardly ever be on call, and do very well financially.
I chose option 2 ...but that's just me.

 

[aphistis]

(in private practice)

This has been discussed before, but how many private practice OD's are there? I know it's a minority.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

This has been discussed before, but how many private practice OD's are there? I know it's a minority.

I think it all depends on how you define private practice. If you mean how many ODs actually own their own practice, then I'm sure it is a minority. If you mean how many ODs work in private practice, I would wager that there are more of those than Wal-Mart/Lenscrafter ODs.

 

[drmhyde]

I think it all depends on how you define private practice. If you mean how many ODs actually own their own practice, then I'm sure it is a minority. If you mean how many ODs work in private practice, I would wager that there are more of those than Wal-Mart/Lenscrafter ODs.

Well....texas is a two door state and the doctor IS actually in private practice. All "retail" sites that the optical is not owned by the doctor must be completely seperate (no adjoining doors,common areas, ETC) My wife and I have two of these and we pay a modest rent. We collect all our fees for services rendered and we are on about every vision and medical panel out there. even though it's in a walmart I practice full scope and my fees for medical billing are set at the highest allowable on the highest paying insurance plan. Don't mistake a location for ability to care for your patient. It's not where you practice but HOW. I chose this arrangment because after school debt and a new baby I was not willing to shell out 300 K to build a practice. The money has been good and I do not regret my decision. In the net year or so we will be in a position to build our our "private" clinic. So...you can still gross (personally) 100,000-120,000 in a retail setting first year with no investment.