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[deleted1132405]

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[mmmcdowe]

If you do phd before ms3 then it shouldn't affect your score all that much. Don't do a PhD to match into neurosurgery. Do do it because you want to do a PhD

 

[imidazzle92]

An unproductive/weak PhD can hurt you/burn you out

 

[Arsartium]

By no means do you need a PhD to be an academic neurosurgeon. You can obtain a similar skillset during your research years at an academic nsgy residency and/or through post-doctoral research fellowships. Granted, it is possible that the additional credential can be a boon for obtaining competitive NIH grants. Remarkably, MD-PhDs and MD receive their first R01 at nearly the same age on average though (Long-Term Trends in the Age of Principal Investigators Supported for the First Time on NIH R01-Equivalent Awards – NIH Extramural Nexus).

Hopefully, you're at a program where you can periodically do elective rotations during your graduate school years. Barring that, there are pros and cons to timing your PhD after your M2 or M3 year. Either way, it really shouldn't matter for Step 2 as long as you take the exam immediately after your clerkship year. For many, the best way to prepare for step 2 is prepare well for your clerkships and the accompanying shelf exams along the way. For instance, if you score > 90 percentile on every shelf exam, you'll probably do similarly well on step 2 ck.

Good luck.

 

[Arsartium]

Thank you so much for replying to my thread. I am currently not in a MDPhD program. However, I was considering pursuing a PhD thru one of the NIH GPP program after I've finished my core rotations and Step 2 CK. Are Sub-I's done during the 4th year of medical school? Would you recommend doing Sub-I's post PhD as my official audition rotations for nsgy?

For me, I feel that a PhD is not necessary but will greatly benefit my ERAS app and future career aspirations.

For reference, I'm coming from a state MD program without a home nsgy residency program.

But I am totally open to not pursuing a PhD during med school and just pursuing research in the future. My only fear is that I will not be able to match with average stats, average # of pubs, and no PhD.

Yes, generally subIs are completed during the 4th year of medical school. SubI completed pre-PhD are going to have little value unless you maintain connection with those departments throughout graduate school years. Otherwise, they will forget about you. You want to be fresh in faculty memory right before residency applications.

Per NRMP charting outcomes (https://public.tableau.com/app/prof...ram/viz/ChartingOutcomes2020/ChartingOutcomes), there appears to be a slight advantage in the NSGY match for candidates with PhDs, especially for lower step 1 scores (whether this can be extrapolated to step 2 CK remains to be seen). This is more likely a function of research productivity than having the PhD itself.

What do you mean by average stats and number of pubs? Do you mean the averages for NSGY applicants? Most of the people with "average" NSGY stats matched. Your preclinical grades don't really matter when most other applicants have P/F curricula. Clerkship grades will be far more important. Moreover, during clerkships you may find a different field more attractive.

Given that you don't have a home nsgy program, it may be prudent to do a research fellowship at an institution with a nsgy residency. This might be best done after your clerkship year once you've confirmed interest in nsgy.

I hope you reach out to a local neurosurgery department for a mentor.