O2 dissociation curve

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medstu2006

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For the fetal O2 dissociation curve, the curve would be to the left to the adult curve because fetal Hb has a higher affinity for oxygern. For the people living at high altitudes where oxygen is depleted, the curve is to the right of the normal adult curve as their afiinity is low. Do I have my concepts right?

Another thing from organic chemistry, conjugated compounds mean do they have to be conjugated throughout the length of the molecule like benzene or is 1,3-pentadiene is conjugated as well?
 
Actually, I think the O2 dissociation curve for people living in high altitudes is to the left of the normal curve as well. If O2 is scare, you want your hemoglobin to maximize O2 delivery to tissues by increasing its affinity for O2 and thereby transporting the max number of O2 molecules ...
 
I don't know. I think the OP is right. Due to lack of O2, it shifts the right which is called the Bohr effect. I could be getting things confused though. I am going to see what people say I am interested in the answer.
 
Also, without writing it down, I am pretty sure the diene you asked about is conjugated.
 
The Op is right. The issue is that at high altitudes, hemoglobin will not become fully saturated and must unload the O2 to the muscles at a lower % saturation (i.e. need lower affinity), so the curve shifts to the right. As US ArmyDoc said, it's the Bohr effect.

Also, 1-3pentadiene is not fully conjugated, but part of the molecule (the part that alternates single-double bond) is. You can have a conjugated system within a molecule.
 
Thanks a lot guys. I always confused the two curves, but now I am sure that I wont get them messed up, hopefully. what is OP that you are refering to?
 
Actually guys the curve shifts to the left- I was also under the initial impression that it would shift to the right b/c at higher altitudes you need more oxygen, but apparently for this you need hemoglobin to have a higher affinity in the first place. This exact altitude question is on the Kaplan FL 1 and they say it shifts to the left, so I guess safeflower is right.
 
Damn, now I am all confused. Are you sure it shifts to the left? I was almost positive it would shift to the right (Bohr effect).
 
NEGATIVE

Kaplan Full Length #7
Question #173

Adaptation to high altitudes involves a series of complex responses, one of which leads to a rapid increase in the erythrocyte BPG concentration. As a consequence of this response there is:


Answer B: A decrease in hemoglobin's affinity for oxygen to facilitate release of oxygen to the tissues.
 
topdogg82 said:
Actually guys the curve shifts to the left- I was also under the initial impression that it would shift to the right b/c at higher altitudes you need more oxygen, but apparently for this you need hemoglobin to have a higher affinity in the first place. This exact altitude question is on the Kaplan FL 1 and they say it shifts to the left, so I guess safeflower is right.

Yes, this is the question that I was thinking of when I answered this. There's also another question on a different Kaplan FL that basically says the curve shifts to the left-- something to do with llamas. 🙂

But now, Nooro's post has me all confused. I think I can rationalize the curve shifting either direction and according to the Bohr effect, it would make sense for it to shift to the right, but according to those Kaplan questions, it shifts to the left... 😕
 
USArmyDoc said:
Damn, now I am all confused. Are you sure it shifts to the left? I was almost positive it would shift to the right (Bohr effect).

I received the following reply from my Organismal Prof.

You are correct about the fetal hemoglobin. Its dissociation curve is shifted to the left of the adult curve, because it has a higher affinity for oxygen. Remember that the fetal blood is picking up oxygen from maternal blood. Mom' s blood has already delivered oxygen to a number of her tissues by the time it reaches the placenta. Thus, the oxygen concentration is low, and the fetal blood must be able to pick up oxygen at these low concentrations. If you look at the curve and compare the saturation of hemoglobin at the same oxygen concentration, you will see that at the same O2 concentration, the fetal blood is more highly saturated.

The same ideas apply to organisms that live at high altitudes. They have to be able to pick up oxygen at low concentrations as well. Thus, there oxygen dissociation curve would be shifted to the left of a curve of a animal that is not adapted to high altitude. I hope these ideas make sense.

A number of factors shift the curve to the right - acidic pH, high temperature, and high CO2 concentrations. Here, oxygen delivery is being maximized. Think about where the blood of an animal might experience these factors. Working muscles produce lactic acid (leads to acidic pH), heat (leads to high temps), and CO2. Thus, as the blood experiences these conditions, it loses its affinity for O2 and the O2 is delivered to the working tissues, where it is needed
 
counter negative :laugh:

Kaplan FL 1 question 138 (1st one in BS):

Question:

The llama is a warm blooded mammal that lives in regions of unusually high altitudes, and has evolved a special type of hemoglobin that adapts it to such an existence. If curve B represents the O2 dissociation curve for a horse, then which curve represents the llama?

Answer:

A (curve that is left-shifted)

Explanation:

The key to understanding this question is that at high latitudes, the atmospheric pressure is low, meaning that there is less oxygen than at sea level. Since the partial pressure of oxygen is lower at high altitudes where the llama lives, the llama hemoglobin must be able to bind hemoglobin MORE readily at low partial pressures of oxygen. In terms of Figure 1, this means that the llama's oxygen dissociation curve will be to the left of the horses.

To be honest the altitude thing has me confused, b/c I could see either way working. The bottom line is that you need more oxygen, so initially you want hemoglobin to bind more strongly to the oxygen present since the partial pressure is lower, but then later, you want its affinity to be less so that its easier to distribute that same oxygen to the tissues.
 
So...what's the answer again?? I understand the reasoning for what people are saying, but how does it work when you want hemo to pick up more O2 at first, and then you want its affinity for O2 to be less to feed the tissues? How can it do both?

The only thing I can think of is if the llama has special hemo that a person who goes up to high altitudes doesn't, so the left-shift graph shows the llama's high affinity hemo, but a right-shift shows an unadapted person's.

👍 Do we concur???
 
I agree wiht US Doc. the bohr affect will cause the curve to shift to the right. Since the partial pressure of O2 is low at high altitudes, hemoglobin will have less afinity for the oxygen and and therefore more oxygen will be unloaded to the cells.

According to a website http://members.aol.com/Bio50/LecNotes/lecnot20.html

At High Altitudes Hemoglobin Saturation May be Well Below 100%

-At the alveolar pO2 of 105 mm Hg at sea level the hemoglobin will be about 97% saturated, but the saturation will fall at high altitudes
-At 12,000 feet altitude alveolar pO2 will be about 60 mm Hg and the hemoglobin will be 90% saturated
-At 29,000 feet (Mt. Everest) alveolar pO2 is about 24 mm Hg and the hemoglobin will be only 42% saturated
-At very high altitudes most climbers must breath pure oxygen from tanks

This proves that the saturation of o2 is less at high altitudes causing the curve to shift to the right as predicted by the Bohr effect

I am not sure, just confused!
 
topdogg82 said:
counter negative :laugh:

Kaplan FL 1 question 138 (1st one in BS):

Question:

The llama is a warm blooded mammal that lives in regions of unusually high altitudes, and has evolved a special type of hemoglobin that adapts it to such an existence. If curve B represents the O2 dissociation curve for a horse, then which curve represents the llama?

Answer:

A (curve that is left-shifted)

Explanation:

The key to understanding this question is that at high latitudes, the atmospheric pressure is low, meaning that there is less oxygen than at sea level. Since the partial pressure of oxygen is lower at high altitudes where the llama lives, the llama hemoglobin must be able to bind hemoglobin MORE readily at low partial pressures of oxygen. In terms of Figure 1, this means that the llama's oxygen dissociation curve will be to the left of the horses.

To be honest the altitude thing has me confused, b/c I could see either way working. The bottom line is that you need more oxygen, so initially you want hemoglobin to bind more strongly to the oxygen present since the partial pressure is lower, but then later, you want its affinity to be less so that its easier to distribute that same oxygen to the tissues.

Let me start by saying that my explanation will be more background than you need for the MCAT, but it helps you understand the information you DO need to know.

Okay, here's what's going on. In the above question, they are saying that the llama has a different type of hemoglobin, one with a naturally higher affinity for oxygen. That means the llama curve would have a leftward shift compared to a horse curve. Having a different type of hemoglobin is different than a human physiological adaptation to altitude -- we must work with the hemoglobin we already have.

In red blood cells, 2,3-BPG is a side product of glycolysis, produced by an enzyme called bisphosphoglycerate mutase. Take a look here: http://www.med.unibs.it/~marchesi/23bpg.html
Because the blood is slightly hypoxic in high altitude, glycolysis backs up and more 2,3-BPG is produced (2,3-DPG is the older name for the same molecule -- BPG stands for bisphosphoglycerate).
Hemoglobin has 2 conformations -- oxygenated, or R (for relaxed) and deoxygenated, or T (for tight). Now the thing about 2,3-BPG is that it fits right in the middle of the hemoglobin tetramer, making it more likely to be in the T conformation. This is good in hypoxic situations because the oxygen is more readily dumped from the blood into the potentially oxygen-starved tissues. Actually, if you strip all the 2,3-BPG from blood, it has a hyperbolic curve almost identical to the myoglobin curve.

The trick to remembering what happens to the hemoglobin curve is thinking about it in terms of continuing to supply tissues with oxygen. If there's less oxygen in the blood, it helps to make it easier to dump into the tissue. By lowering the affinity of hemoglobin for oxygen, you're releasing it to the tissues more easily.

The other side of the story is fetal hemoglobin. The fetus can't breathe, obviously, but it must get oxygen. In the placental vessels, oxygen is exchanged between maternal and fetal blood, but it doesn't just go there because mommy is nice. Fetal hemoglobin is different from adult hemoglobin, and it has a lower affinity for 2,3-BPG. Now remember -- at a lower affinity for 2,3-BPG, the fetal hemoglobin has a higher affinity for oxygen, so it can strip oxygen from the maternal blood. Sure, the baby is slightly more susceptible to hypoxia, but lungless beggars can't be choosers.
 
Oh, and don't forget that in long-term, humans respond to high altitude by increased erythropoeisis. More erythrocytes, more oxygen-carrying capacity.
 
Im all confused!

From what I understand,

-Fetal Hemoglobin- Left shifted, higher affinity for O2

-Myoglobin- Left Shifted? (Higher affinity for O2)
I dont get this one. Deos myoglobin have a natural hemoglobin thats different in that it has greater affinity for O2. If it does then tis left shifted. If it doesnt then I thought that when you exercise the p02 is low since the muscles need oxygen. Therefore, hemoglobin has a lesser affinity for O2 so that it can dump oxygne to the tissues, thereby making it shifted to the right.

-At high Altitudes-right shifted

I am not sure, but we have to work wiht our natural hemoglobin the curve is shifted to the right since the pO2 is low. However in the case of the llama it is shifted to the left, since it has different hemoglobin that has a greater affinity for O2.

Please help me clarify this up (dtreese)! Also I dont get this DPg thing. Do we need to know it.

Thanks
 
rs76 said:
Im all confused!

From what I understand,

-Fetal Hemoglobin- Left shifted, higher affinity for O2

-Myoglobin- Left Shifted? (Higher affinity for O2)
I dont get this one. Deos myoglobin have a natural hemoglobin thats different in that it has greater affinity for O2. If it does then tis left shifted. If it doesnt then I thought that when you exercise the p02 is low since the muscles need oxygen. Therefore, hemoglobin has a lesser affinity for O2 so that it can dump oxygne to the tissues, thereby making it shifted to the right.

-At high Altitudes-right shifted


At high altitudes-
I am not sure, but we have to work wiht our natural hemoglobin the curve is shifted to the right since the pO2 is low. However in the case of the llama it is shifted to the left, since it has different hemoglobin that has a greater affinity for O2.

Please help me clarify this up (dtreese)! Also I dont get this DPg thing. Do we need to know it.

Thanks

For those born at sea level and visiting high altitudes, the Hb curve shifts to the right as delivery must be maximised. On the contrary, for the ones born at high altitudes and living there all their life, their Hb curve is to the left as O2 pick up must be maximised. Thus, the llama has the Hb curve shifted to the left.
 
I'm sorry for adding to the confusion--I thought my answers on the previous page were right, but after further thought about this, I'm not even sure if the curve shifts at all!!!

Here's my reasoning: BPG (also knowns as DPG) does shift the curve to the right because hemo needs to unload its O2 to the tissues, but I forgot to consider the ANS's role in all this. In high altitudes, an immediate response by the body is to increase rate of breathing, to make up for the less-dense atmosphere. The curve then would shift to the left, because of decrease in [CO2]--that is you blow more out but you are not making more. Then BPG shifts the curve back to the right to compensate for this.

So essentially, the curve doesn't shift. That's my final answer, Regis.
 
Okay, myoglobin is structurally similar to a quarter of a hemoglobin and serves to bind oxygen in the same way. It is a protein within muscle that serves as a local oxygen reservoir. So think of blood as the river that constantly brings water in, and think of myoglobin as the town water tower. In the middle of a summer drought, the river is running low at the same time the town needs more water. It's a good thing the water reserve is there, even if it only prolongs the inevitable. By having an oxygen reserve in the muscle, you can put off anaerobic respiration a little longer.
Now think about the fact that myoglobin is pulling oxygen away from hemoglobin, and it makes sense that you would want myoglobin to have a much, much higher affinity for oxygen. It doesn't matter that it hangs on tightly to that oxygen, because the [O2] goes down veeery quickly during exercise.

2,3-BPG (or 2,3-DPG if you're learning from Yoda) IS important to know. For now, just know that the presence of 2,3-BPG is what makes the O2-hemoglobin dissociation curve sigmoid, and that increased 2,3-BPG at high altitude causes a right shift in the curve.
 
hey dtreese

i know you mentioned it briefly - but what happens during high alt adjustment for low alt dwellers?

Also, your explanations were really helpful! a little more background is always good for getting the bigger pic IMHO
 
For low altitude dwellers like us at sea level, the curve will shift to the right as dtreese mentioned. Since we work with the hemoglobin we already have, the body compensates for the low O2 pressure by causing hemoglobin to have a less affintiy for O2 and therfore shifting it to the right so more O2 can unload to the muscles (Bohr Effect).

I think this is right. When do you apply the Bohr effect? From what I am reading in the previous posts it is not alwasy applied. I think only wehn you have the same hemoglobin and change conditions rather that someone who was born at high altitude.
 
dtreese said:
2,3-BPG (or 2,3-DPG if you're learning from Yoda) IS important to know. For now, just know that the presence of 2,3-BPG is what makes the O2-hemoglobin dissociation curve sigmoid, and that increased 2,3-BPG at high altitude causes a right shift in the curve.

I thought the sigmoid curve originated was due to the postive cooperativity.
 
Full-Length Test 3 - Question #211

A mountain climber living at sea level ascends to a very high altitude during the course of a day long climb. By the end of the day, all of the following acclimatizations will occur EXCEPT:

A. increased tidal volume.
B. increased respiration rate.
C. right shift of the hemoglobin dissociation curve.
D. increased concentration of erythropoietin in the blood.

The answer is C. "The affinity of hemoglobin for oxygen will not decrease. The adaptation of hemoglobin’s affinity for oxygen would take longer than one day. Besides, even if given time to adjust, in order to maintain delivery of oxygen to tissues at high altitudes (low pO2), the affinity of hemoglobin for oxygen would increase so as to maximize the amount of oxygen transported by the hemoglobin in the blood." --Excerpt from Kaplan explanations.

Based on previous posters' explanations, the consensus seemed to be that highly adapted mammals would display a left shift in the curve, whereas non-adapted mammals (humans) would display a right shift because we have to work with the hemoglobin we already have. However, the Kaplan explanation seems to suggest that the initial adaptation leads to a left shift, but would it eventually lead to a right shift??? It seems like it's a matter of acute versus chronic adaptation, but then Kaplan settles on a left shift nonetheless.
 
I am not sure but since its the course of only a day, thne it will shift to the left. Maybe the Bohr effect is long term effect rather than in one day(?)

Also, I always thought that the number of erythrocytes will increase, but not in one day as the question says. Does the body make more erythrocytes that fast?
 
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