OB-GYN as first rotation during fp residency

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

elizabeth5863

Full Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Messages
180
Reaction score
2
🙁 I haven't done any OB for the past 2 years and hardly did any gynecology ever since my OB-GYN rotation during med school. It was my first clinical rotation as an M3. I've only ever delivered 1 baby (and not by myself). And I'm at a university fp program where I'll be working with OB-GYN residents. (This is one of those times when I wish I was at a community-based residency program). Any suggestions on what books to use for light reading and tips? Thanks guys.
 
🙁 I haven't done any OB for the past 2 years and hardly did any gynecology ever since my OB-GYN rotation during med school. It was my first clinical rotation as an M3. I've only ever delivered 1 baby (and not by myself). And I'm at a university fp program where I'll be working with OB-GYN residents. (This is one of those times when I wish I was at a community-based residency program). Any suggestions on what books to use for light reading and tips? Thanks guys.

No advice, really...just feeling your pain!

I'm starting with medicine. As my cousin (also an FP) said, "You're screwed." 😉

I did an OB elective at a university program last fall, and they had a great manual they had put together. It basically had all the stuff you needed to survive. Hopefully your program will have one too.

You should try posting on the OBGyn forum, too.

I am comforted by those who have said that we aren't expected to know anything as new interns. That's good because I don't. 😉

Best of luck!!
 
Just remember...the OB-gyn interns probably won't know any more than you do. 😉
 
I suggest Williams Obstetrics. If you use that book to brush up on most of the common OB topics and read it enough to know more than half of the relevant material, I bet you'll know more than any of the OB interns. And, as far as I'm concerned, the OB residents I have worked with seem to be some of the weaker residents in the whole hospital. Just my opinion, I guess. Most of them know their OB stuff fairly well, but you get outside of that narrow scope and they are very weak. I guess it goes back to the old saying, if all you have is a hammer, all the world looks like a nail or something like that. Trust me, any time something wonders in with any type of medical problem, they will come screaming for your assistance. They did that every time I worked with them this year. If there was an EKG that needed an interpretation or a rash that needed looked at, they sure did not hesitate to come and find the FP resident to get a real medical opinion. They do tend to be very sorority like, though, and will tend to exclude you from their little inner circle of friends. At least that has been my experience with both where I went to med school and where I am now doing residency. Good luck. You will have fun, learn a lot, and in the end be a better person for it.
 
Seriously, there's nothing to freak out about. Especially if work with OB interns. They want you to think it's rocket science. It's not. It's the same thing, every time. With a bunch of variations of the theme. Focus on the important survival stuff and branch out from there...

1) Vag exam - A closed/thick/high cervix feels like a hot dog with a belly button on the end. Find that license plate thing with circles on it and practice. Learn dilation first, worry about effacement, station, and position later. Does it feel like skull/hair? Does it feel like a rubber bag with fluid?

2) What is the definition of labor? If you're in labor, you stay. If not, you go home. So what's the criteria? And how do you *know for sure* that they're NOT in labor? And if they're not in labor, what else can be going on?

3) Strips. How many boxes does a dip need to have and how many times for it to be consider a decel? What are the 3 different types of decels? And what do you do about them if you see them? What is the normal heart rate for a fetus? What if it's high? What if it's low? How do you more accurately measure fetal heart tones and contractions (compared to external fetal monitoring) and when do you do it?

4) Blood pressure. What is the criteria for preeclampsia? How do you work it up? How do you manage it?

5) Ultrasound. Is the bright white circle (i.e. the head) near the vagina? Or near the pancreas? And is there 1? Or more?

6) What is the GBS protocol according to the CDC?

And a couple of clinical scenarios... what's the next step?

1) Term lady with contractions, membranes ruptured, dilated
2) Term lady with contractions, membranes intact, dilated
3) Term lady with no contractions, membranes ruptured, dilated
4) Term lady with no contractions, membranes intact, not dilated
5) Preterm lady with contractions, membranes ruptured, dilated
6) Preterm lady with contractions, membranes intact, not dilated
7) Preterm lady with no contractions, membranes ruptured, not dilated
8) Multip with no contractions, membranes intact, 2 cm "dilated" but does not change in 1 hour
9) Pregnant woman with fever and contractions. Membranes intact or membranes ruptured.

Again, variations of a common theme, but it's a good starting point to think what you would do for each one. You get the point.

A lot of things including the mechanics of delivering you'll pick up along the way. This is a good place to start. Be confident, good luck.
 
Thanks guys! I appreciate all your advice and help!

This sounds silly but one of my main problems for OB is that I'm not good at feeling the cervix. I have short fingers and I've only been able to feel the cervix twice (in women who were small). I've done cervical checks after the interns in med school but couldn't feel the cervix at all while they were able to tell that it was dilated by x cm. I met a resident once at a program and she said that she had problems feeling the cervix too because of her short fingers. She said there were other techniques that can help make it easier to feel the cervix. Does anyone know what techniques she was talking about? Thanks!
 
Thanks guys! I appreciate all your advice and help!

This sounds silly but one of my main problems for OB is that I'm not good at feeling the cervix. I have short fingers and I've only been able to feel the cervix twice (in women who were small). I've done cervical checks after the interns in med school but couldn't feel the cervix at all while they were able to tell that it was dilated by x cm. I met a resident once at a program and she said that she had problems feeling the cervix too because of her short fingers. She said there were other techniques that can help make it easier to feel the cervix. Does anyone know what techniques she was talking about? Thanks!

Well, at the risk of sounding crass, I don't know about all that short finger business. I mean, either you're missing a couple of phalanges or your patient population has cavernous vaginas. All that it is is anatomy, and like anything anatomic, you have to know geographically where it's supposed to be and how it's supposed to feel. L&D is a bad place to learn what a "normal" cervix feels like because by the time you exam them, they may be dilated and thinned out. Of course you can't find it... it ain't there no more. Now, a good place to learn normals would be in L&D Triage (volume) and FM/OB clinic during WWE's (not in labor).

Like I said, visualize a hot dog with a belly button on the tip of it. If the hot dog points towards the floor, it's posterior. If it points at you, it's anterior; diagonally in between, it's mid-position. As a cervix dilates, the belly button gets bigger and you start to be able to stick 1 or 2 fingers in it and maybe spread your fingers. As the cervix thins out, it feels less like hot dog and more like the bottom of a cereal bowl (smooth and flat with a ridge which is the cervical os).

I feel your pain, though, because it took me a lot of exams to "get it", but once you get it, it's ridiculously simple. I mean, seriously. OB residents like you (you stupid incompetent FP rotator who gets in my way) to think that a freaking vag exam is some secret kung fu. AND they like to think they're right. There's so much variability, both between observers and intraobservers, that I'm sometimes surprised that we make C/S decisions for FTP based on them. So don't let an OB resident make you feel like you're wrong. It's all a matter of an (educated/seasoned) opinion.

Personally, I don't agree at all with TN Family MD's attitude. Weak? Strong? Who freaking cares? I'm at an unopposed program so I don't appreciate it as much as others, but you will end up wasting a lot of time/energy and be extremely unhappy if you sit around comparing yourself to others. I mean, who cares if you can read an EKG or a rash better than an OB resident? That doesn't help you deliver babies during this rotation or in a taxi cab in the middle of traffic jam.

Learn how to do the OB resident's job better than they do. That should be your purpose. Come up with 4 specific things you want to master during the rotation (that's 1 per week to get really good by Friday), and freaking do it.

I would rather strive in learning OB while I'm on OB than be proud of the fact that I know Cards better than an OB resident. I mean, when you're on Cards, do you say to the Medicine resident "well, I can't read EKGs like you, but at least I can deliver a baby"? Ridiculous. Sorry, just my opinion.
 
i'm short and i have short fingers. i learned a quick trick in my intern year (i also had ob as my very first rotation) so i could hit the cervix: completely lower the head of the bed so that the lady is horizontal and lay a pillow or one of those plastic basins under her pelvis. it tilts her pelvis up and makes it easier to get to her cervix. and push in- no you will not hurt her cuz she's already in pain (from labor) and definately get your hands on that metal plate with the different dilations in it! other than that, i remember carrying around some thick paperback in my pocket that i used. rule of thumb: if you're not sure, get somebody to double check your exams and ask them questions! 😎
 
Thanks for the help!

No, I do not have any missing phalanges :laugh: but I'm only 5'1.5 and my fingers are very short (3rd digit is only 3 1/4 inches; okay, now I feel weird talking about size 😉). I'm not concerned with just OB but also with gyn (since I will need to do gyn for the rest of my career). I know what a long, closed cervix feels like and have felt it in 2 people but for the others who have long, closed cervices (per attending/resident), I wasn't even able to reach in far enough (no matter how much force I used to push my fingers in). Sure, I'll have OB nurses to help me out with my OB rotations, but for the rest of my career, when I'm an attending, who's going to double-check? I read somewhere that the cervix changes positions (high, low) depending on the menstrual cycle. Does the cervix also go lower during labor? (I hope so, so I can feel that darn thing).

Tn Family MD, thanks for the book recommendation!

Lowbudget, thanks for the teaching you've done! That was very helpful!

Alleymo, thanks for the tip! (Come to think of it, I think the resident I talked to 1.5 yrs ago said to elevate the pelvis too; but she had the pts sit on their hands. I like your technique better because it would elevate the pelvis even more). Do you have any other tips in case I still can't find the cervix even after having the pelvis elevated?
 
No problem. I just thought of another book that I found extrememly helpful on my OB and GYN rotations. It is called Obstetrics, Gynecology, and Infertility and it costs about 15 bucks. It is known as the "red book" by the OB residents here. It is a pocket sized book. Check it out http://www.amazon.com/Obstetrics-Gynecology-Infertility-Handbook-Clinicians-Resident/dp/0964546760/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-6292530-9763901?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180915977&sr=8-2


I also found the pelvic elevation to be helpful in whichever form you want to use. Another thing I have found helpful to find the cervix is to trap part of the tissue of the anterior vaginal wall with your fingers and then "walk" the cervix down to within reach of your fingers by kind of just walking your fingers ever closer to the cervix while pushing the vaginal tissue ahead of your fingers as you go. Sounds weird, but it works.

To the other guy that thinks I'm a jerk. Maybe I am a jerk, but I have just had to deal with too many OB residents this year and they have made me into a bitter person because of it. You don't have to deal with those kinds of folks in your unopposed program. That alone is probably the best reason to go unopposed that I can think of. I was just pointing out how funny it was to me that the OB residents like to act like they are all knowing when it comes to their little wing of the hospital known as L and D and Triage, but when any other problem rolls through they are all too happy to find that FP resident that they think of as stupid so that the dumb old FP resident can tell them what is going on with the patient. Sorry if that didn't come out right and you found it offensive.
 
No problem. I just thought of another book that I found extrememly helpful on my OB and GYN rotations. It is called Obstetrics, Gynecology, and Infertility and it costs about 15 bucks. It is known as the "red book" by the OB residents here. It is a pocket sized book. Check it out http://www.amazon.com/Obstetrics-Gynecology-Infertility-Handbook-Clinicians-Resident/dp/0964546760/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-6292530-9763901?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180915977&sr=8-2

Great book. That's the one I was trying to think of--thanks.
 
I am comforted by those who have said that we aren't expected to know anything as new interns. That's good because I don't. 😉

Best of luck!!

I hope it's true that we don't have to know anything, but the new interns I worked with at the beginning of my M3 year were really smart and competent. They didn't seem that "new" or scared and were able to teach me things. Maybe they're just good at hiding how worried they are? I hope the med students don't ask me any questions :scared:
 
and i was so nervous about ob!!!

the best things in my pocket (book-wise) was the "red book" (mentioned earlier) and teh little thin purple book by current clinical strategies. it's AWESOME. had everything.

get them boht and you'll be fine 😉

and yes - it just takes a couple exams to know what to feel for in there. i'll be totally honest with you adn tell you it took me 1 week to feel comfortable to even know where the darn cervix was, 2 weeks to understand the concept of palpating for effacement, 3 weeks to announce my cervical exam with confidence. you'll get there! 🙂
 
I hope it's true that we don't have to know anything, but the new interns I worked with at the beginning of my M3 year were really smart and competent.

Right...and the sixth graders seemed impossibly tall and smart and cool when you were a kindergartner, right? 😉

It's all about perspective. And seeming confident in the face of uncertainty and sometimes, abject terror.
 
Top