Observership at a hospital...$100 fee

[YoungProdigy]

What are the advantages to doing an observership at a hospital and paying the $!00 fee vs. just shadowing any doctor at a clinic? Is the observership at the hospital really worth it, generally?

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[mik30102]

Sounds like bs to me.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

I haven't heard of anything like this for premeds. More info please.

 

[YoungProdigy]

"The request for an observership will be for a period of sixty (60) days" The observership application fee is $100.00."

Then it goes on to talk about required vaccines and tests etc...

This is at a large hospital in Orlando.

 

[mik30102]

Just shadow any doctor for free. This is just a cash grab.

 

[deleted480308]

"The request for an observership will be for a period of sixty (60) days" The observership application fee is $100.00."

Then it goes on to talk about required vaccines and tests etc...

This is at a large hospital in Orlando.

orlando regional....haha, I had to pay that too when I shadowed in the ER.

I shadowed a local DO that did NMM in her private practice and then a EM doc at the hospital.....both for a total of about 20-30hrs each

I only paid because I wanted to show I had seen more than one specialty and EM allowed me to shadow without missing work because they are 24/7. The hospital charges the money to handle the overhead of clearing people and to lessen the number of people that want to do it

it's a judgement call on your part.

 

[YoungProdigy]

orlando regional....haha, I had to pay that too when I shadowed in the ER.

I shadowed a local DO that did NMM in her private practice and then a EM doc at the hospital.....both for a total of about 20-30hrs each

I only paid because I wanted to show I had seen more than one specialty and EM allowed me to shadow without missing work because they are 24/7. The hospital charges the money to handle the overhead of clearing people and to lessen the number of people that want to do it

it's a judgement call on your part.

Thanks. Is it an easy and efficient way to get shadowing done? I'm definitely interested in learning what it is doctor's do on a daily basis, but I'd rather not cold call a bunch of clinics, and just get it done with one shot.

How does the process work? Do you decide the type of doctors you want to shadow? It is mostly just staring, or do the doctor genuinely want to show you things?

 

[deleted480308]

Thanks. Is it an easy and efficient way to get shadowing done? I'm definitely interested in learning what it is doctor's do on a daily basis, but I'd rather not cold call a bunch of clinics, and just get it done with one shot.

How does the process work? Do you decide the type of doctors you want to shadow? It is mostly just staring, or do the doctor genuinely want to show you things?

Orlando regional doesn't connect you with docs....you have to find one willig to sponsor you

 

[YoungProdigy]

Orlando regional doesn't connect you with docs....you have to find one willig to sponsor you

How did you find as doctor to sponsor you? Sorry if these are dumb questions.

 

[deleted480308]

How did you find as doctor to sponsor you? Sorry if these are dumb questions.

They aren't, I looked up the emergency physciain group contracted with the hospital. I called them and begged the receptionist to pass my information/request to any doctors she knew took students. You could also just lookup the emergency residency staff and contact them directly

 

[sazerac]

Isn't an observership what an IMG does after they graduate from the Caribbean and can't get a residency? I see these folks in the Residency forum all the time. MD's with no residency and no license and no malpractice insurance from school, can't participate in patient care at all, doing multiple observerships and hoping it counts for something when they reapply again for the match next year.

Pre-meds do shadowing.

 

[deleted480308]

Isn't an observership what an IMG does after they graduate from the Caribbean and can't get a residency? I see these folks in the Residency forum all the time. MD's with no residency and no license and no malpractice insurance from school, can't participate in patient care at all, doing multiple observerships and hoping it counts for something when they reapply again for the match next year.

Pre-meds do shadowing.

It's semantics, at this hospital it costs $100 to be allowed to follow a doctor on their property...

 

[Psai]

What the ****? You people are paying to shadow a doctor? Is this real life? Who are you even paying? Bet it's a bunch of bean counters. I had the doctors paying for my lunch and stuff, ain't never paid anyone to shadow lol you just stand there and ask questions at inopportune times

 

[SufiPoet]

That's nuts. Besides, I'd much rather start volunteering on weekends at a smaller clinic, and build relationships with the docs there.

Might be worth looking around for a bit.

$100 fee = doesn't seem like a valuable experience....I don't know if that's a baseless statement. Some people might've had $100 fee great experiences, but it seems kind of .....blegh to me.

 

[mimelim]

What are the advantages to doing an observership at a hospital and paying the $!00 fee vs. just shadowing any doctor at a clinic? Is the observership at the hospital really worth it, generally?

Just shadow any doctor for free. This is just a cash grab.

What the ****? You people are paying to shadow a doctor? Is this real life? Who are you even paying? Bet it's a bunch of bean counters. I had the doctors paying for my lunch and stuff, ain't never paid anyone to shadow lol you just stand there and ask questions at inopportune times

You guys don't really know how this stuff works.

First, it costs hospitals/clinics money to have students shadow or observe their physicians. Drug tests, background checks, badging, HIPAA training, etc all cost money. At our hospital, this cost is between $700 and $1000 per student. It is not atypical for a physician to tell a pre-med, "Of course, you can follow me around, just talk to the hospital/GME office to get you credentialed." Then when the student does that, the sponsoring physician is asked to pay this cost. Even if a physician pays for a student's lunch or coffee or whatever it is, that is very different than simply fronting cash so that someone can follow you around. Academic institutions will frequently have a budget for this process and certain programs will have funding set aside for it. But, at most reasonable sized hospitals, this is a non-trivial process. It takes a minimum of 2 months to get a student credentialed at our hospital. I know, I just did it for 3 students for this summer. When I was negotiating the positions for students, it was very clear that the operations manager/clinic managers wanted the students to front this cost. It is hardly surprising, given that there is no real tangible benefit to having shadowing students around (a little different if they are doing research like ours are). We had to find the money to cover the students. Personally, given how much we expect our students to work while they are here, it seemed rather inappropriate to pass this cost along to them, and I insisted that it should cost them nothing. However, I certainly can understand if someone is simply observing/shadowing that people would either not take them on or ask them to cover the costs.

 

[wanderer]

I find it ironic that when I was a pre-med, every time I volunteered at a new hospital, I had to take another drug test. As a 3rd year med student, I only had to take a drug test for one of the five sites I rotated at. If a hospital is paying 1000 USD to get a student "credentialed" it's because they're doing things really inefficiently. In any case for the OP, there are plenty of other hospitals/doctors you can shadow that won't charge you. Find another place if you can.

 

[NonTradJp]

To OP, you could look at other places to shadow or you can go there. I would not mind the fee myself because 1) shadowing was a wonderful experience for me and 2) hospitals incur tons of expenses if they let you on site officially for various activities.

 

[Psai]

You guys don't really know how this stuff works.

First, it costs hospitals/clinics money to have students shadow or observe their physicians. Drug tests, background checks, badging, HIPAA training, etc all cost money. At our hospital, this cost is between $700 and $1000 per student. It is not atypical for a physician to tell a pre-med, "Of course, you can follow me around, just talk to the hospital/GME office to get you credentialed." Then when the student does that, the sponsoring physician is asked to pay this cost. Even if a physician pays for a student's lunch or coffee or whatever it is, that is very different than simply fronting cash so that someone can follow you around. Academic institutions will frequently have a budget for this process and certain programs will have funding set aside for it. But, at most reasonable sized hospitals, this is a non-trivial process. It takes a minimum of 2 months to get a student credentialed at our hospital. I know, I just did it for 3 students for this summer. When I was negotiating the positions for students, it was very clear that the operations manager/clinic managers wanted the students to front this cost. It is hardly surprising, given that there is no real tangible benefit to having shadowing students around (a little different if they are doing research like ours are). We had to find the money to cover the students. Personally, given how much we expect our students to work while they are here, it seemed rather inappropriate to pass this cost along to them, and I insisted that it should cost them nothing. However, I certainly can understand if someone is simply observing/shadowing that people would either not take them on or ask them to cover the costs.

I've done none of those things when i shadowed and it seems unnecessary

 

[sazerac]

I've done none of those things when i shadowed and it seems unnecessary

No kidding. When I wanted to shadow, I went to the local doctor and asked, and he let me follow him around for about 7 days all told, spread over a couple of sessions. It certainly didn't cost anybody hundreds or thousands of dollars. He knew I was an EMT and knew how to keep my mouth shut, hipaa-wise.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[sazerac]

I take that back about costs... when I got accepted, I bought him a nice bottle of scotch. Cost me a little over a hundred dollars. So there were some costs involved.

 

[mimelim]

I've done none of those things when i shadowed and it seems unnecessary

Every physician and hospital is different. Hospitals make policies like these for liability and safety reasons. I won't argue the merits of it, because it is pointless. But, the fact of the matter is, a random pre-med shadowing produces nothing. They provide nothing to the hospital/physician. They do take time and energy out of the hospital's work force that is expected to work. It is hardly surprising that many physicians/hospitals have little interest in babysitting a pre-med. Certainly, I am the type that likes having students around (I have 5 working with me this summer, by my choosing), but you can hardly blame physicians for not wanting students around.

 

[PikminOC]

100 bucks is nothing in the grand scheme of things

 

[pyrrion89]

Find another hospital that isn't strangled by red tape or greed.

 

[Psai]

Every physician and hospital is different. Hospitals make policies like these for liability and safety reasons. I won't argue the merits of it, because it is pointless. But, the fact of the matter is, a random pre-med shadowing produces nothing. They provide nothing to the hospital/physician. They do take time and energy out of the hospital's work force that is expected to work. It is hardly surprising that many physicians/hospitals have little interest in babysitting a pre-med. Certainly, I am the type that likes having students around (I have 5 working with me this summer, by my choosing), but you can hardly blame physicians for not wanting students around.

Exposing the next generation of physicians to the hospital and the practice of medicine produces nothing? Is the only consideration for performing an act based on a purely financial analysis? I chose the field that I'm applying to before even beginning medical school from a great shadowing experience I had with a senior resident. I look forward to giving back in the same way without thinking about how it benefits me personally as I haven't yet forgotten what it is like to be a pre-medical student without a clear sense of direction

 

[mimelim]

Exposing the next generation of physicians to the hospital and the practice of medicine produces nothing? Is the only consideration for performing an act based on a purely financial analysis? I chose the field that I'm applying to before even beginning medical school from a great shadowing experience I had with a senior resident. I look forward to giving back in the same way without thinking about how it benefits me personally as I haven't yet forgotten what it is like to be a pre-medical student without a clear sense of direction

I don't understand. So physicians should be obligated to foster the next generation of physician with no positive effects on their job in any way? Certainly what I said is not purely financial analysis. Most physicians do not want students around. They take time, energy and focus, which is shifted away from other things. There are physicians that get personal reward from having students around and they gravitate toward academic positions. But, they are the minority. The problem is, this sense of academic entitlement (I'm a pre-med without a clear sense of direction, someone sacrifice their time, energy and resources to help me figure it out while I provide nothing to them) stems from students largely only being exposed to academic medicine, which is not how the vast majority of physicians practice or how healthcare in this country functions.

There are tremendous benefits of shadowing, TO THE STUDENT. Personally, I think that it is an essential part of the application process. This isn't a matter of people forgetting what it is like to be a pre-med. There are plenty of sob stories out there. Somehow being a poor pre-med doesn't really make it to the top of the list. The reality is that most people (which includes most physicians) aren't going to bend over backwards/sacrifice themselves to help someone else who may or may not even go to medical school.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Every physician and hospital is different. Hospitals make policies like these for liability and safety reasons. I won't argue the merits of it, because it is pointless. But, the fact of the matter is, a random pre-med shadowing produces nothing. They provide nothing to the hospital/physician. They do take time and energy out of the hospital's work force that is expected to work. It is hardly surprising that many physicians/hospitals have little interest in babysitting a pre-med. Certainly, I am the type that likes having students around (I have 5 working with me this summer, by my choosing), but you can hardly blame physicians for not wanting students around.

If it's such a bother then maybe this generation of doctors shouldn't have made it a requirement for med school?

The $100 fee is simply a greedy hospital taking advantage of premeds and all the stupid hoops they have to jump through

 

[Goro]

Consider it either as an investment in your medical education, or early tuition.

If it's such a bother then maybe this generation of doctors shouldn't have made it a requirement for med school?

The $100 fee is simply a greedy hospital taking advantage of premeds and all the stupid hoops they have to jump through

 

[Goro]

Yet another one that should be stickied!
Mims, you're going to make the front page of SDN look like this:

I don't understand. So physicians should be obligated to foster the next generation of physician with no positive effects on their job in any way? Certainly what I said is not purely financial analysis. Most physicians do not want students around. They take time, energy and focus, which is shifted away from other things. There are physicians that get personal reward from having students around and they gravitate toward academic positions. But, they are the minority. The problem is, this sense of academic entitlement (I'm a pre-med without a clear sense of direction, someone sacrifice their time, energy and resources to help me figure it out while I provide nothing to them) stems from students largely only being exposed to academic medicine, which is not how the vast majority of physicians practice or how healthcare in this country functions.

There are tremendous benefits of shadowing, TO THE STUDENT. Personally, I think that it is an essential part of the application process. This isn't a matter of people forgetting what it is like to be a pre-med. There are plenty of sob stories out there. Somehow being a poor pre-med doesn't really make it to the top of the list. The reality is that most people (which includes most physicians) aren't going to bend over backwards/sacrifice themselves to help someone else who may or may not even go to medical school.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Consider it either as an investment in your medical education, or early tuition.

More like extortion

I promise you this hospital is not making hand over fist off of premeds.

They are charging the fee for a few reasons that have been outlined above are very easy to understand. (1) recoup administrative costs of credentialing (badge, HIPAA training, etc), (2) set some degree of entry barrier, (3) centralize and standardize. A lot of times individual doctors just let a student shadow them and bring them to the hospital randomly. Hospital admins don't like this because although extremely low risk it does bring up some degree of liability for the hospital. And hospitals hate nothing more than they do liability.

This is a minor nuisance. There's really not cause for moral outrage here.

I guarantee they are making $$$ from this. I'm very glad my premed days are behind me, it's like being a second class citizen

 

[Goro]

Nothing like the smell of entitlement in the AM!

More like extortion



I guarantee they are making $$$ from this. I'm very glad my premed days are behind me, it's like being a second class citizen

 

[sliceofbread136]

Nothing like the smell of entitlement in the AM!

I just don't like being taken advantage of, I wouldn't call that entitlement.

 

[deleted480308]

I just don't like being taken advantage of, I wouldn't call that entitlement.

you are coming to them and getting all the benefit out of the interaction, they are saying the price of dealing with the hassle of your presence is $100....take it or leave it, there is no "taking advantage" here

 

[sliceofbread136]

you are coming to them and getting all the benefit out of the interaction, they are saying the price of dealing with the hassle of your presence is $100....take it or leave it, there is no "taking advantage" here

The hospital isn't really doing anything though (aside from maybe an employee HIPAA powerpoint), $100 is too high (the $800 to $1000 someone else mentioned is absolutely ridiculous)

 

[mimelim]

If it's such a bother then maybe this generation of doctors shouldn't have made it a requirement for med school?

The $100 fee is simply a greedy hospital taking advantage of premeds and all the stupid hoops they have to jump through

I'm not sure what medical school requirements have to do with private hospitals and physicians. Just because you have a problem or you have something that you are trying to do and someone is in that field doesn't somehow connect the two.

The hospital isn't really doing anything though (aside from maybe an employee HIPAA powerpoint), $100 is too high (the $800 to $1000 someone else mentioned is absolutely ridiculous)

Once you step out of the world of academics, you realize that most of the world functions like this. And it is not cheap. The liability is not terrible, but it isn't exactly pennies. You have to pay someone to give that HIPPA powerpoint and for liability reasons they typically have to be of a certain position or have certain credentialing. Someone has to do the actual paper work. Online credentialing for the most basic things typically runs $50-$200 depending on what it is. Background checks are ~$100-$300. The hospital is taking a risk by having you in it. It is extremely small, but it is very very real. If you are a part of the mechanisms of the hospital (even just following someone around), you can cause problems for them. For example, this happened a year before I started at the hospital I'm at, a pre-med who was shadowing spilled coffee on the tile floor of a clinic. Patient slipped, and was okay. The pre-med tried to help them up and they slipped again, this time hitting their head on a chair. Ended up in the ER, no serious injury, but with a pretty decent lawsuit. Why was this person there in the first place? Why were they attempting to assist someone if they have no formal training in helping people who fall? The pre-med doesn't get sued, the hospital does. If I recall, that case was settled for low 6 figures. It is far easier to mitigate those damages if the hospital can show, "Hey, we did a background check, we gave them training, we did everything we would do for a normal employee, what happened could have happened even if they were just there for no real reason." If the actual cost of mitigating that risk is $800 how can you possibly call that ridiculous? I can understand not wanting to pay it and no pre-med does. The point of me saying that was that that is what WE have to pay for a student to work with us. I, me personally, had to find $2000 to credential the students working with me this summer. I had to find money so that they could do it. It is an easy sell for me because these students have the expectation of doing research as well as shadowing, but if someone just wanted to follow our surgeons around for a couple of days? It is hard to justify wasting time, energy or resources on them.

 

[Salt Salt]

I just don't like being taken advantage of, I wouldn't call that entitlement.

I don't see it as entitlement either.

IMHO "entitlement" gets thrown around a lot these days.

 

[Salt Salt]

I have no idea what an observership is but the process of getting the meager shadowing experience I got was a *nightmare*. Communicating with busy doctors and residents, being ignored for weeks on end, etc. In retrospect, if there was some of program that offered abundant, easy, shadowing hours, I would pay $100 to do it. Is that what an observership is?

 

[Psai]

I don't understand. So physicians should be obligated to foster the next generation of physician with no positive effects on their job in any way? Certainly what I said is not purely financial analysis. Most physicians do not want students around. They take time, energy and focus, which is shifted away from other things. There are physicians that get personal reward from having students around and they gravitate toward academic positions. But, they are the minority. The problem is, this sense of academic entitlement (I'm a pre-med without a clear sense of direction, someone sacrifice their time, energy and resources to help me figure it out while I provide nothing to them) stems from students largely only being exposed to academic medicine, which is not how the vast majority of physicians practice or how healthcare in this country functions.

There are tremendous benefits of shadowing, TO THE STUDENT. Personally, I think that it is an essential part of the application process. This isn't a matter of people forgetting what it is like to be a pre-med. There are plenty of sob stories out there. Somehow being a poor pre-med doesn't really make it to the top of the list. The reality is that most people (which includes most physicians) aren't going to bend over backwards/sacrifice themselves to help someone else who may or may not even go to medical school.

How is it entitlement to want to figure out what you want to do by watching the people who are doing it? It has nothing to do with a sob story. Why are you so obsessed with trying to find a sense of entitlement where there is none? Most college students don't go around to doctors saying I want to be a doc you have to let me follow you around. No one is demanding that you bend over backwards. Is it really that hard to pay something forward?

 

[mimelim]

How is it entitlement to want to figure out what you want to do by watching the people who are doing it? It has nothing to do with a sob story. Why are you so obsessed with trying to find a sense of entitlement where there is none? Most college students don't go around to doctors saying I want to be a doc you have to let me follow you around. No one is demanding that you bend over backwards. Is it really that hard to pay something forward?

What the ****? You people are paying to shadow a doctor? Is this real life? Who are you even paying? Bet it's a bunch of bean counters. I had the doctors paying for my lunch and stuff, ain't never paid anyone to shadow lol you just stand there and ask questions at inopportune times

I've done none of those things when i shadowed and it seems unnecessary

Exposing the next generation of physicians to the hospital and the practice of medicine produces nothing? Is the only consideration for performing an act based on a purely financial analysis? I chose the field that I'm applying to before even beginning medical school from a great shadowing experience I had with a senior resident. I look forward to giving back in the same way without thinking about how it benefits me personally as I haven't yet forgotten what it is like to be a pre-medical student without a clear sense of direction

No one anywhere in this thread claimed that it is "entitlement to want to figure out what you want to do by watching the people who are doing it."

Physicians have a finite amount of time, energy and resources. Pre-meds want a part of it. Many of them feel entitled to it and show it by getting pissy or get flabbergasted when they either get turned down or are asked to cover the associated financial costs of doing it.

You have demonstrated in this thread that you don't know how any of this stuff works.

#1 You expect physicians to "pay it forward" because it "really isn't that hard". Have you ever had someone shadow you or been responsible for a student?
#2 You can't imagine why it would cost money for a pre-med to spend time in a hospital, despite there being very real reasons and those of us that have first hand information explaining why it does. Have you ever organized for a pre-med to shadow a physician?
#3 You think that it is "unnecessary" to undergo proper credentialing. Based on what exactly? You didn't undergo them. Have you worked in a legal department of a hospital? Have you managed liability exposure before? Legal departments including our own are notoriously conservative and careful, overly so. But, given that it is logical that proper credentialing in some form would be of benefit in our society and you are advocating for zero control what so ever, I'm going to side with them given that I have no personal experience in it.
#4 Exposing random pre-meds to hospital medicine produces nothing for society. If you can't understand this, I don't know what to tell you. There is marginal benefit for the student, but certainly it is at best neutral for the physician, patient, hospital and society at large. Remember that the average pre-med doesn't even end up going to medical school, so at a minimum 50% will be people "learning" what a doctor does and not going into the field.

Nobody is entitled to my time, energy and resources unless they are my patients. Certainly there are many of us out there, myself included that are more than willing to give up those things to help students and people a couple years behind us, but making the people that aren't out to be bad people or "unwilling to pay it forward", IS a sense of entitlement. Calling covering the costs of shadowing "extortion" or "ridiculous" implies that the services should be given away for free. I'm sorry, but that is the definition of entitlement.

 

[Psai]

So it sounds like you're upset at the kids who got pissy or flabbergasted because they asked to shadow and you said no. It sucks when people say no but I've never gotten mad and never even thought about it. No I haven't had someone shadow me but I've shadowed multiple physicians at four different hospitals in big cities, 1 community and 3 university based and no one ever asked me to undergo credentialing. I don't understand why there is a cost to shadowing. Is it really that hard to tell people that they can't discuss a patient in public and that they shouldn't be going around saying that name? Do they really need a badge that they're going to use for one day? If you don't think that they can handle that, then don't let them shadow. Do you really need for them to sit through some crappy powerpoint presentation with a boring presentor about hipaa that they won't even pay attention to? Going to ask them to fork out for a multiple choice exam or something? When I shadowed, I just stood there and watched. I talked to the doctors as they did things. I didn't go around blabbing about patients to random people in the hallway.

I'm not making you out to be a bad person. I'm not saying that you or any other doctor owe your time to anyone. I'm just saying that many of us have benefited from the people before us letting us come in and I don't see a problem with passing that forward. There is no entitlement whatsoever on my part; I was very grateful to those physicians who donated their time to me without asking for anything in return.

Also, you quoted my 4 posts and none of them say a thing about extortion or ridiculous so you can aim that gun in some other direction, thanks.

 

[mimelim]

So it sounds like you're upset at the kids who got pissy or flabbergasted because they asked to shadow and you said no. It sucks when people say no but I've never gotten mad and never even thought about it. No I haven't had someone shadow me but I've shadowed multiple physicians at four different hospitals in big cities, 1 community and 3 university based and no one ever asked me to undergo credentialing. I don't understand why there is a cost to shadowing. Is it really that hard to tell people that they can't discuss a patient in public and that they shouldn't be going around saying that name? Do they really need a badge that they're going to use for one day? If you don't think that they can handle that, then don't let them shadow. Do you really need for them to sit through some crappy powerpoint presentation with a boring presentor about hipaa that they won't even pay attention to? Going to ask them to fork out for a multiple choice exam or something? When I shadowed, I just stood there and watched. I talked to the doctors as they did things. I didn't go around blabbing about patients to random people in the hallway.

I'm not making you out to be a bad person. I'm not saying that you or any other doctor owe your time to anyone. I'm just saying that many of us have benefited from the people before us letting us come in and I don't see a problem with passing that forward. There is no entitlement whatsoever on my part; I was very grateful to those physicians who donated their time to me without asking for anything in return.

Also, you quoted my 4 posts and none of them say a thing about extortion or ridiculous so you can aim that gun in some other direction, thanks.

I am not upset about anything here. I am simply pointing out that you can say things like "I don't understand why there is a cost to shadowing" all you want, but when you have no background in this or experience, it is meaningless. At the end of all of this, this isn't about you. This is about thousands of pre-meds going through this. This is about liability and the hospital's incentives to providing things to people that don't benefit them.

As I have said repeatedly, I find value in shadowing and think that every pre-med should do some. My issue is with people who claim things that are unnecessary when they don't understand the process behind any of it. Or base their opinions entirely on their single experience going through it, ignoring logic and reason.

 

[Psai]

Pretty specific descriptions for something you're not upset about. It is not as difficult to understand as you suggest but I'm right here so you can say my name if you want instead of referring to a nebulous "people". I just don't see the necessity. Drug tests for a person who wants to shadow? What is the indication for that? A two month wait? For what reason? But I suppose it's cool to be haughty and dismissive

 

[deleted480308]

Pretty specific descriptions for something you're not upset about. It is not as difficult to understand as you suggest but I'm right here so you can say my name if you want instead of referring to a nebulous "people". I just don't see the necessity. Drug tests for a person who wants to shadow? What is the indication for that? A two month wait? For what reason? But I suppose it's cool to be haughty and dismissive

Because you are asking for a person with no medical reason to be near patients to be brought in by the doctor. These people have to be screened to show due diligence by the hospital in case a premed does something stupid. There is a lot of liability risk by the hospital