oculoplastics

[4424]

Can anyone give me any more info about plastics? How many spots are there roughly? Is it more competitive than retina fellowships? Are there good opportunities to go abroad? Do you have to be certified in facial surgery as well? Thanks for any info in advance

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[RetFellow]

Can anyone give me any more info about plastics? How many spots are there roughly? Is it more competitive than retina fellowships? Are there good opportunities to go abroad? Do you have to be certified in facial surgery as well? Thanks for any info in advance

You have the choice between ASOPRs fellowship vs. non ASOPRs fellowships. ASOPRS (http://www.asoprs.org/) fellowships are usuallly 2 years, require a research project, and are must be done with physicians who are ASOPRS members already. They are extremely competitive. I think there are ~15 spots/year, and ~60 applicants each year. So much more competitive than retina places. You apply for a spot 2 years out (during your 2nd year typically).

Alternatively, non-ASOPRs fellowships can be quite good as well, and can be up to 2 years. I think some of these (maybe all?) are done through our old friend, SFMatch.

I believe there is no accreditation for fellowship training in any ophthalmic subspecialty. As long as you think you can do it and are willing to assume the risk, you could theoretically claim to be a subspecialist in anything, regardless of your training.

 

[GuP]

Is occuloplastics better compensated than retina? I have never seen salary number for occulo, but I have seen that retina guys usually make the most out of optho fellowships.

Anyways, somoene whom I was speaking to ( an old timer) said that most occulo guys work closely with plastic and neurosurgeons. I think he specifically mentioned that most occulo jobs are only available in tertiary care hospitals and that sometimes the plastics guys are preferred over ophtho occulo guys b/c they can also cover general surgery call.

Can someone comment on the job market for occulo?

 

[7ontheline]

The fellow who just graduated out of my old program had a number of job offers in Chicago. If you have any interest in academics you are almost guaranteed a job. I believe the private market is pretty solid too. As has been stated, the difference is that there are about 15 oculoplastics guys graduating every year vs. a lot more (60? 80?) retina guys.

 

[4424]

GuP- based on my limited knowledge, I have heard there are plenty of jobs available and I don't think they are being bumped by others. ENT is the main specialty that has significant overlap.

15 spots? Guess that certainly answered my question! is it worthless to pursue the non-ASOPRs fellowships?

 

[GuP]

Wow - only 15 grads per year! Is that only ASOPRs? I think so b/c I am sure plenty of others go for non-ASOPRs or am I wrong?

4424 - I agree about ENT overlap.

From the looks of it, it seems again that it is more important WHO you know rather than what you know in order to get into occulo.

Can anyone comment on hours worked and salary?

 

[Eyescan]

Can anyone comment on hours worked and salary?

There is a lot of variation, much more so than general ophthalmologists. Some oculoplastic surgeons make much less than the average general ophthalmologist and some make more. That's because entropions take a while to do but pay less than a cataract.

The advice I got from obstetrician-gynecologists when I was considering that field: don't do it.

The advice I got from ophthalmologists: do it

from retina: do it
from oculoplastics: a few said don't do it, a few said do it
from pediatric ophthalmologists: a third of them are mad at the world because of the hard work in fighting with kids all day.

 

[GuP]

There is a lot of variation, much more so than general ophthalmologists. Some oculoplastic surgeons make much less than the average general ophthalmologist and some make more. That's because entropions take a while to do but pay less than a cataract.

The advice I got from obstetrician-gynecologists when I was considering that field: don't do it.

The advice I got from ophthalmologists: do it

from retina: do it
from oculoplastics: a few said don't do it, a few said do it
from pediatric ophthalmologists: a third of them are mad at the world because of the hard work in fighting with kids all day.

Interesting. I only spoke to one person, a general ophtho guy, regarding occulo and he did his best to steer me away from the field. He was all for retina!

Is entropion the bread and butter procedure for occulo?

I thought that with occulo one can branch off into cosmetics and be successful in that aspect. Is that common?

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Interesting. I only spoke to one person, a general ophtho guy, regarding occulo and he did his best to steer me away from the field. He was all for retina!

Is entropion the bread and butter procedure for occulo?

I thought that with occulo one can branch off into cosmetics and be successful in that aspect. Is that common?

Practices vary.

Most oculoplastic surgeons have a foundation practice in functional oculoplastics: entropion, ectropion, blepharoptosis, skin cancers, DCRs for
NLDO, and orbit procedures. Many do brow surgery and cosmetic upper facial plastics, including endo brow procedures. Fewer will do full facial plastics like rhytidectomies, since the operating time is long and there is usually more competition for these procedures from general plastics and ENT and oral-maxillofacial surgeons. Those who have available well-equipped office surgeries can do more of these procedures without having to pass through a credentialing committee that may not want oculoplastic surgeons doing full facial surgeries, even if they are well-trained for this. How broad a practice you have will depend on your practice circumstances (i.e., multi-sub-specialty group or solo) and the availability of surgery facilities in the community.

Many oculoplastic surgeons still do a lot of general ophthalmology, including lasers and surgery.

Some are doing chemical peels.

Laser resurfacing has seen its day, and not very many people are doing this procedure any more, except perhaps as a focal adjunct to blepharoplasty.

Income will vary with the quantity of surgery and the relative amount of cash-paid cosmetic work. Compared to typical retina surgeons, most oculoplastic surgeons earn less.

 

[GuP]

Practices vary.

Most oculoplastic surgeons have a foundation practice in functional oculoplastics: entropion, ectropion, blepharoptosis, skin cancers, DCRs for
NLDO, and orbit procedures. Many do brow surgery and cosmetic upper facial plastics, including endo brow procedures. Fewer will do full facial plastics like rhytidectomies, since the operating time is long and there is usually more competition for these procedures from general plastics and ENT and oral-maxillofacial surgeons. Those who have available well-equipped office surgeries can do more of these procedures without having to pass through a credentialing committee that may not want oculoplastic surgeons doing full facial surgeries, even if they are well-trained for this. How broad a practice you have will depend on your practice circumstances (i.e., multi-sub-specialty group or solo) and the availability of surgery facilities in the community.

Many oculoplastic surgeons still do a lot of general ophthalmology, including lasers and surgery.

Some are doing chemical peels.

Laser resurfacing has seen its day, and not very many people are doing this procedure any more, except perhaps as a focal adjunct to blepharoplasty.

Income will vary with the quantity of surgery and the relative amount of cash-paid cosmetic work. Compared to typical retina surgeons, most oculoplastic surgeons earn less.

Thanks for the info. What do ya guys think about ophthos pursuing a plastics fellowship? I know currently ophthalmologists are not granted access to a plastics fellowship. Do you guys think that ophthos can be perform just as well as an ENT or a General Surg guy if given a plastics fellowship or will they have a harder time? I know it all comes down to an individual person's skills and how dedicated one is but I just wanted to hear ophthos as a group in general. Maybe ophtho --> occulo --> plastics? Thoughts on that pathway? I know if one wanted to be a plastic surgeon there are plenty of ways but it just seems a bit odd to me that ophthos cannot pursue it. Maybe I am just being a whiner!