Odds of having to repeat internship year after 4 year GMO?

[Piers]

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If I do 4 years of GMO after my initial IM internship year and opt to leave the military thereafter, is there a probability that I would have to repeat my internship year to complete a civilian allopathic or osteopathic residency?

I've heard arguments so far both endorsing and refuting this opinion. Does it entirely depend on the program and candidate? Just trying to get a general impression of how to gauge the difficulty in resuming a residency in a civilian program at the PGY-2 level after a 4 year hiatus.

Thanks.

 

[IgD]

I think there is a possibility of having to repeat an internship. I think it depends on the specific program and what you want to go into.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

If I do 4 years of GMO after my initial IM internship year and opt to leave the military thereafter, is there a probability that I would have to repeat my internship year to complete a civilian allopathic or osteopathic residency?

I've heard arguments so far both endorsing and refuting this opinion. Does it entirely depend on the program and candidate? Just trying to get a general impression of how to gauge the difficulty in resuming a residency in a civilian program at the PGY-2 level after a 4 year hiatus.

Thanks.

Chances are pretty good that you won't unless you are going into a field for which a categorical year as an intern is essential. If your internship is not in a categorical class, as in a transitional year, and you are going back into IM or GS, then you might have to repeat at least some internship months.

That would not be unreasonable. You will have been a long time out of the wards and out of specialized work like ICU and CCU. You would likely need a refresher.

In other areas, the internship isn't as important.

This is a particular negative of the GMO service requirement: the loss of competence you will have developed as an intern. The other is the simply unreasonable length of time that four additional years as a GMO extends the total time to complete your training, from the beginning of internship to the end of residency.

Also, don't assume that GMO time is as free as it seems: you will deploy, several times, most likely, and you will have hanging over your head that entire time the knowledge that you will still have several years of residency to finish down the road. That really is not the best way to be trained. And don't let anyone tell you that four years is something trivial. It isn't at all. Your non-military classmates will be over and done with residency and on with their lives while you are just starting your second postgraduate year.

I think planning on doing four years as a GMO and exiting is a bad plan.
It is at best a second choice when deferment isn't possible and straight through military residency is not available. You really should do what you can to avoid a GMO tour if getting residency training is your first priority, as it should be. If you end up as a GMO, it should not be for want of trying for something better.

 

[Piers]

Thank you both for tha help.

If I do a military residency, then my 4-year service obligation would extend by the length of the residency, correct? So in the case of IM, the total obligation would be 6 years after completing residency?

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

It's not awful though, depending on your attitude approaching it and where you get assigned.

😡

 

[kushdog1]

If I am selected for IM PGI and not the full IM residency and hav to go GMO after that say max 4 years. As I understand from above I will do 2 years IM after GMO? Am I reading this crrectly?
Also, do not forget they want us to take the third boards before completing the PGI. If so, are we considered military physicians as GMOs?😕

 

[J-Rad]

There was a senior resident in my (peds) program who was a 6 year GMO after completing a peds internship. He had to repeat internship (and he was brilliant-genuinely thought of as "staff-like" in his abilities and clinical accumen by the staff themselves). But I don't know what the magic number of years out made this the case.

 

[psychbender]

If I am selected for IM PGI and not the full IM residency and hav to go GMO after that say max 4 years. As I understand from above I will do 2 years IM after GMO? Am I reading this crrectly?
Also, do not forget they want us to take the third boards before completing the PGI. If so, are we considered military physicians as GMOs?😕

If you do your IM internship (PGY1 year), then a 4-year GMO tour (why, oh why would you do that?), then you are free and clear, and can leave the active duty military should you so desire (unless you are USUHS, or have other service obligations). You can seek training in the civilian sector, and finish that IM residency. Or, you can continue in the military, finish your two final years of IM residency, and owe a further two years, then leave (total time in service 9 years).

 

[mmcnamara]

Chances are pretty good that you won't unless you are going into a field for which a categorical year as an intern is essential. If your internship is not in a categorical class, as in a transitional year, and you are going back into IM or GS, then you might have to repeat at least some internship months.

That would not be unreasonable. You will have been a long time out of the wards and out of specialized work like ICU and CCU. You would likely need a refresher.

In other areas, the internship isn't as important.

This is a particular negative of the GMO service requirement: the loss of competence you will have developed as an intern. The other is the simply unreasonable length of time that four additional years as a GMO extends the total time to complete your training, from the beginning of internship to the end of residency.

Also, don't assume that GMO time is as free as it seems: you will deploy, several times, most likely, and you will have hanging over your head that entire time the knowledge that you will still have several years of residency to finish down the road. That really is not the best way to be trained. And don't let anyone tell you that four years is something trivial. It isn't at all. Your non-military classmates will be over and done with residency and on with their lives while you are just starting your second postgraduate year.

I think planning on doing four years as a GMO and exiting is a bad plan.
It is at best a second choice when deferment isn't possible and straight through military residency is not available. You really should do what you can to avoid a GMO tour if getting residency training is your first priority, as it should be. If you end up as a GMO, it should not be for want of trying for something better.

Another thing to consider (and I got this info from my residency program director) is that when a program accepts a pgy2, it creates an imbalance in the program. I am in pathology, and my program accepts 3 people per year. If one year, they accepted one pgy2 and two pgy1s, then three years later, when the pgy1s were in their third year, the pgy2 would be ready to graduate. That would leave 4 open positions for the next year that need to be filled instead of 3. Things like this need to be approved by the ACGME which accredits the program. This involves no small amount of paperwork and time to organize. Also, the four new people would be pgy1s with no experience, and the program would lack 1 pgy4. Needless to say, the pgy1s require more training and guidance, and while this has a more subtle affect on the program, they do consider this factor. Additionally, a pgy2 gets paid more. So each year, they would actually be forking over more money for salaries, thereby increasing the department's budget. It is not really a lot of money, but sometimes that $2000/year can make the difference between whether they choose you or someone else. This means that there would be an even chance that you would have to repeat your first year. Also, a program would specifically ask you when you last did ward work or ICU or worked with critical care patients, and if it had been a while, they would want you to do the intern year again.

 

[TheGoose]

why are you digging up old threads and posting the same info over and over again? this is terrible

 

[mmcnamara]

why are you digging up old threads and posting the same info over and over again? this is terrible

I am trolling this site to see if anyone has any info on military medicine that may be pertinent to a question that I have which will decide whether or not I go into the military as a physician. You don't need to be an ASS and criticize if I comment on issues or questions that were raised by others, even if the original thread is dated, since my intention is to provide info that I learned through 7 years of active duty to people who may be new to using this website. It is also obvious that most of what is being posted in this forum, particularly from pre-med students, is grossly inaccurate, as they do not have any experience with actually being a physician, much less being in the military. The only information that actually has any accuracy is that from the military physicians themselves.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I am trolling this site to see if anyone has any info on military medicine that may be pertinent to a question that I have which will decide whether or not I go into the military as a physician. You don't need to be an ASS and criticize if I comment on issues or questions that were raised by others, even if the original thread is dated, since my intention is to provide info that I learned through 7 years of active duty to people who may be new to using this website. It is also obvious that most of what is being posted in this forum, particularly from pre-med students, is grossly inaccurate, as they do not have any experience with actually being a physician, much less being in the military. The only information that actually has any accuracy is that from the military physicians themselves.

Were you prior enlisted? How long?

 

[notdeadyet]

You don't need to be an ASS and criticize if I comment on issues or questions that were raised by others, even if the original thread is dated, since my intention is to provide info that I learned through 7 years of active duty to people who may be new to using this website.

Then start a new thread, please. Don't revive old ones to cross-post...

 

[mmcnamara]

Were you prior enlisted? How long?

I went in right after high school and was in the first gulf war. Then stayed in 7 years, relocating 3 times, and redeploying once. Got out in 1997.

 

[mmcnamara]

why are you digging up old threads and posting the same info over and over again? this is terrible

why does this bother you so much...you could just not read them.

 

[rotatores]

I went in right after high school and was in the first gulf war. Then stayed in 7 years, relocating 3 times, and redeploying once. Got out in 1997.

A little thing called sarcasm! But seriously...how long have you been in? 👍

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I went in right after high school and was in the first gulf war. Then stayed in 7 years, relocating 3 times, and redeploying once. Got out in 1997.

Oh, I didn't know that already because I only read it on 5 different threads already.