ODs in MD practices

[BYUIDoctor]

I just graduated last year from optometry school and went into a retail practice. Currently I do mostly refractions, occasional red eyes, and cataract co-management.

I was offered a job this week at a MD practice seeing his pre/post ops, diabetics, glaucoma, and disease patients, etc. Because I didn't do a residency he said he is basically willing to allow me to get residency training under him at a "competitive" salary. I'm happy in my current retail setting, and income potential where I am is decent, so I didn't ask specifics about salary because I'm not sure how interested I am. What can any of you tell me about your OD/MD settings? What's the stress level like? How many patients do you see? What would be an expected starting salary in an MD disease oriented practice and what is the potential? Thanks!

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[DrVinzKlortho]

I just graduated last year from optometry school and went into a retail practice. Currently I do mostly refractions, occasional red eyes, and cataract co-management.

I was offered a job this week at a MD practice seeing his pre/post ops, diabetics, glaucoma, and disease patients, etc. Because I didn't do a residency he said he is basically willing to allow me to get residency training under him at a "competitive" salary. I'm happy in my current retail setting, and income potential where I am is decent, so I didn't ask specifics about salary because I'm not sure how interested I am. What can any of you tell me about your OD/MD settings? What's the stress level like? How many patients do you see? What would be an expected starting salary in an MD disease oriented practice and what is the potential? Thanks!

OD/MD positions vary greatly. You can be a glorified refractionist for one or a disease managing medical OMD/partner in another. Autonomy, compensation, cases, etc. vary widely so the answers to your questions will vary widely. I'll give you my situation as a benchmark. I work at a large OD/MD practice that specializes in refractive surgery, cats, glaucoma and we(they?) are venturing into oculoplastics. I'm the clinical director which is basically an inflated title that grants me more paperwork and admin bs. What's nice about this type of setting is that you will see some pretty wild stuff and have the chance to treat and manage up to your level of comfort. In my particular practice OD comfort levels with medical cases varies quite widely from referring simple herpes cases that would require topical and/or oral antivirals to removing epithelium/stromal micropunctures/paracentesis/plugs and other office based procedures. Stress levels vary greatly: if you're a clinical OD with no admin bs to worry about you basically come in, see patients and then bounce so the stress is very very low. If you're the "director" the uneccessary stress will make you want to beat your neighbor's life partner on a daily basis. I see anywhere from 20-50 patients a day. Some of the ODs won't see more than 20. I enjoy a bit of organized chaos so I don't mind getting my teeth kicked in running 8 exam lanes--however you should be compensated for you rockstardom. Starting salary for a newer grad will again vary greatly and depend on location. In my area typical salaries for these positions run about $90-$140k with solid benes. I'm salaried for 35 hrs/wk at my position and moonlight on Saturdays and a couple nights a week to pay of dem loans.

 

[Jason K]

Starting salary for a newer grad will again vary greatly and depend on location. In my area typical salaries for these positions run about $90-$140k with solid benes. I'm salaried for 35 hrs/wk at my position and moonlight on Saturdays and a couple nights a week to pay of dem loans.

I've never heard of a new OD grad getting anywhere north of 85K in a private MD setting. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in your neck of the woods, but if new grads can land in spots with 6 figure incomes, right out of school, I suspect that there will be lines extending around the block for each position. Most of the new grads I've dealt with who have received offers from MD offices, are getting offers in the mid 70s with reasonable benefit packages.

 

[hello07]

[. In my area typical salaries for these positions run about $90-$140k with solid benes.



Unless I'm mistaken, I've been around the block once or twice in every mode of optometric practice and never heard of an OD in private MD office getting anywhere higher than 115-120K. Any OD being offered 130-140,000 in a MD office should hold on to that job and be thankful than ever. That is alot of money you stated, uness they are offered base salary and then additional money for sevices provided- anter.seg photography, VF's, OCT fundus photos, etc.......with billing services. No OD in my neck of the woods gets that salary.

May I ask in which state you practice?

 

[Meibomian SxN]

OD/MD positions vary greatly. You can be a glorified refractionist for one or a disease managing medical OMD/partner in another. Autonomy, compensation, cases, etc. vary widely so the answers to your questions will vary widely. I'll give you my situation as a benchmark. I work at a large OD/MD practice that specializes in refractive surgery, cats, glaucoma and we(they?) are venturing into oculoplastics. I'm the clinical director which is basically an inflated title that grants me more paperwork and admin bs. What's nice about this type of setting is that you will see some pretty wild stuff and have the chance to treat and manage up to your level of comfort. In my particular practice OD comfort levels with medical cases varies quite widely from referring simple herpes cases that would require topical and/or oral antivirals to removing epithelium/stromal micropunctures/paracentesis/plugs and other office based procedures. Stress levels vary greatly: if you're a clinical OD with no admin bs to worry about you basically come in, see patients and then bounce so the stress is very very low. If you're the "director" the uneccessary stress will make you want to beat your neighbor's life partner on a daily basis. I see anywhere from 20-50 patients a day. Some of the ODs won't see more than 20. I enjoy a bit of organized chaos so I don't mind getting my teeth kicked in running 8 exam lanes--however you should be compensated for you rockstardom. Starting salary for a newer grad will again vary greatly and depend on location. In my area typical salaries for these positions run about $90-$140k with solid benes. I'm salaried for 35 hrs/wk at my position and moonlight on Saturdays and a couple nights a week to pay of dem loans.

+1 well said and accurate.
But I'd have to disagree with the compensation and say base is usually $90-120k along N.E. corridor. But the benefits are more respectable than most OD practices.

 

[Jason K]

Starting salary for a newer grad will again vary greatly and depend on location. In my area typical salaries for these positions run about $90-$140k with solid benes.

My issue with this statement is not the stated salary, necessarily, although I do think it's probably a bit high. It's that the stated range was tied to new grads. I have a very hard time believing any new grad could find his/her way into a position making anything over $100K in any office, MD or otherwise. I know some career ODs that landed in good MD offices, who make in the 120s, when bonuses are added in, but to list a typical starting salary for new grads in MD offices in that range seems far too high.

Of course, the more important issue is, what's the ratio of "good" jobs to new grads, in any given part of the country. Even if there were 10 open, FT positions in solid offices, starting at $140K per year with federal-employee-like benefits, it does nothing for the other 99% of grads in the area who end up in a box.

 

[Tippytoe]

Of course, the more important issue is, what's the ratio of "good" jobs to new grads, in any given part of the country. Even if there were 10 open, FT positions in solid offices, starting at $140K per year with federal-employee-like benefits, it does nothing for the other 99% of grads in the area who end up in a box.

True Dat!

 

[DrVinzKlortho]

I haggled a bit for my salary. I was about 10 months out of school when I was offered the job; I'm salaried for fairly close to the middle of what I mentioned. The $140k is a number I have heard from multiple sources in similar situations however the ODs in those positions have 7 and 10 years of experience.

 

[310]

My issue with this statement is not the stated salary, necessarily, although I do think it's probably a bit high. It's that the stated range was tied to new grads. I have a very hard time believing any new grad could find his/her way into a position making anything over $100K in any office, MD or otherwise. I know some career ODs that landed in good MD offices, who make in the 120s, when bonuses are added in, but to list a typical starting salary for new grads in MD offices in that range seems far too high.

Of course, the more important issue is, what's the ratio of "good" jobs to new grads, in any given part of the country. Even if there were 10 open, FT positions in solid offices, starting at $140K per year with federal-employee-like benefits, it does nothing for the other 99% of grads in the area who end up in a box.

^There's plenty of evidence to the contrary.

 

[Jason K]

^There's plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Where - can you produce some?

 

[310]

Keep fighting the good fight, but you'd have to be pretty ignorant to believe new new grads couldn't exceed 100k in any office, and I'm not talking about a select few. Enjoy your bubble.

 

[Tippytoe]

And everyone, please don't forget, many people lie much of the time about their salary. ODs lie 99.99% of the time. It's all self-reported and hearsay. No one, other than accountants, go around looking at other people's IRS forms or watches them actually make bank deposits.

Salary talk is about as reliable as listening to a bunch of guys talk about how many women they've slept with.

Not speaking of anyone personal on this thread.....just an observation about ODs in general, deduced from my 17-year career so far.

P.S. I make $650,031.77 every year, and have a yacht and a Bugatti Veyron.

 

[Jason K]

Keep fighting the good fight, but you'd have to be pretty ignorant to believe new new grads couldn't exceed 100k in any office, and I'm not talking about a select few. Enjoy your bubble.

Excluding the new grads who end up in the garbage pit of America's Best (or it's equivalent), far less than 1% will end up making $100K, in ANY office, and that includes residency-trained individuals. If you want to claim otherwise, you're free to do so, but it just speaks of your disconnect from reality. We're soon going to have 2000 grads hitting the field every year. Please share with us how many of those 2000 grads will be pulling down 100K in respectable OD or MD offices.

You seem to be quick to speak of "plenty of evidence" to the contrary, but I don't see any so far. So, for now, I will live in my "bubble," since it happens to encompass reality. You're welcome to live outside of that bubble.

 

[drumstix]

P.S. I make $650,031.77 every year, and have a yacht and a Bugatti Veyron.

sonofabitch

 

[310]

Excluding the new grads who end up in the garbage pit of America's Best (or it's equivalent), far less than 1% will end up making $100K, in ANY office, and that includes residency-trained individuals. If you want to claim otherwise, you're free to do so, but it just speaks of your disconnect from reality. We're soon going to have 2000 grads hitting the field every year. Please share with us how many of those 2000 grads will be pulling down 100K in respectable OD or MD offices.

You seem to be quick to speak of "plenty of evidence" to the contrary, but I don't see any so far. So, for now, I will live in my "bubble," since it happens to encompass reality. You're welcome to live outside of that bubble.

I must know way too many recent grads in the top percentile then.

 

[Jason K]

I must know way too many recent grads in the top percentile then.

I must know too many in the bottom 98.

 

[362.04]

I think that Optometry / Ophthalmology practice settings produce some of the most rewarding practice settings that I can think of. It can also produce some of the monotonous that isn't unlike any retail eye care setting.

In my opinion, your ability to bill north of $500,000 is key. If you can create billings at that level, then you can expect your salary or compensation to be in the 150-160 range. At one time I did >500k consistently over a 6-7 year period.

Therefore, don't expect that any optometrist will get paid anything north of $100k unless there is a distinct contribution that you can make to the practice.


Note: My experience includes private group ophthalmology practice of 17 physicians and one optometrist (me) to a single ophthalmologist solo practice.

 

[Eilat87]

If I made a lot of money, I'd downplay the sh** out of my salary.