Official I'm not going to these schools thread

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Cancelled: oklahoma, arkansas, SUNY downstate, maryland, missouri kansas city...more to come
 
Why did you guys schedule so many interviews that you never planned to go on? This is why the number of applications - not applicants - are up. This really burdens program offices trying to decipher who's interested in their program and who isn't, and sending out invites to those who have no intention of interviewing. I think that ERAS is going to have to come up with a better system of capping number of applications, instead of just making you pay more. Or, maybe they just need to make it really painful financially to "over-apply".

-copro
 
coprolalia said:
Why did you guys schedule so many interviews that you never planned to go on? This is why the number of applications - not applicants - are up. This really burdens program offices trying to decipher who's interested in their program and who isn't, and sending out invites to those who have no intention of interviewing. I think that ERAS is going to have to come up with a better system of capping number of applications, instead of just making you pay more. Or, maybe they just need to make it really painful financially to "over-apply".

-copro
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it seems like at first there are two groups of applicants: the haves (who are getting 12+ interviews already) and the have nots. hopefully those with interviews that they aren't interested in will drop them expeditiously so those who really are interested can pick them up. i agree that it puts an extra burden on the adcoms and it sucks for those of us who are interested in programs but not getting those invites initially, but you have to agree that those who are already able to weed out some of their interviews probably deserve that privilege by doing pretty well the last 3 years.

i'll admit that i applied to a lot of programs, partly because i have no real geographic preference and partly because i'd rather be safe than sorry. statistically speaking, 10 is the magic number when it comes to interviews... so why take any chances of not getting that many invites?
 
lane said:
it seems like at first there are two groups of applicants: the haves (who are getting 12+ interviews already) and the have nots. hopefully those with interviews that they aren't interested in will drop them expeditiously so those who really are interested can pick them up. i agree that it puts an extra burden on the adcoms and it sucks for those of us who are interested in programs but not getting those invites initially, but you have to agree that those who are already able to weed out some of their interviews probably deserve that privilege by doing pretty well the last 3 years.

i'll admit that i applied to a lot of programs, partly because i have no real geographic preference and partly because i'd rather be safe than sorry. statistically speaking, 10 is the magic number when it comes to interviews... so why take any chances of not getting that many invites?
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Hey, I'm not hurling any stones here. I had a few back-ups as well and of the fifteen invites I got I cancelled two (money and time, mostly, but I went on thirteen... and that was anesthesia interviews, not including prelims).

But the difference is that every program I applied to I would've been willing to go and do a residency at. It seems that, this early, there are many people who WAY undersold themselves and never really had any intention of ever even realistically considering some of the programs they applied to. That's what I'm saying. Some of you guys are sending out like 60+ applications, and to many programs that you are clearly not ever seriously going to consider even if you do get an invitation.

I'd suggest that before you send out an application ask yourself whether or not you'd realistically go to that program if they offered you a spot. And, be honest with yourself.

What I'm saying is that it's okay to have a few well chosen back ups. It's not okay to have 30 of them. If you do that, you're burdening the system.

-copro
 
I applied to like 26 programs. I didn't really know how competitive I'd be, so I cast the net wide. I've gotten 16 interviews so far, cancelled one in a city I wasn't that interested in, although I would have gladly gone that that interview and that program if I didn't have as many other options as I've been lucky enough to get. I also had to decline an interview at a program I'm interested in because none of their interview dates worked for me.
I'm trying now to decide which other interviews to cancel, and there are a few programs I'd still really, really like to hear from. The thing is, all of the programs I applied to I'd be interested in, so deciding which to bow out of is hard...
 
Ferdie said:
I applied to like 26 programs. I didn't really know how competitive I'd be, so I cast the net wide.
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Yah, this is an ongoing problem. The perception and reality of the competitiveness of anesthesiology are far different from each other. There are actually about 15-20 super competitive programs out there. The rest, if you're a decent applicant, you pretty much have a shot at. There's no need to apply to so many, unless all your apps are to those top tier programs.

-copro
 
Cancelled: Baylor, Arkansas, Kansas, New Mexico, WashU.

I applied to 18, then trimmed the list to 9 after getting 11 interviews so far. I plan on interviewing only at the top 5 or 6 because I think it's a waste of travel expenses to go gallavanting across the country when it's likely with a solid application to match #1 or 2. I'd rather spend the money on other things.

Why apply to more? I received the advice from everyone from attendings to residents that it's better to apply to more and trim to fewer, than to find yourself with less interviews than you desired or to hear that the programs you applied to, after being told good things, actually turned out to suck, have short accredidation cycles, etc.

Also, you never know what any process is like (med school application, boards, clerkships, residency application, etc.), until it's over. Then hindsight 20/20, you probably could've saved yourself and everyone else a lot of hassle. But, it's still better to err on the safe side, IMO.
 
I agree with playing on the safe side. My numbers are certainly not stellar, and I was advised to cast a wide net. I could turn away or cancel interviews, but you can't go begging for them after the fact.

Sure I might have been able to save some money, but that would have been a gamble I didn't really want to take.

If there were a reliable and accurate way to assess competitiveness and liklihood of matching, I certainly would have saved some money on my eras. In the absence of such predictors however, actually matching in anesthesia & not having to scramble into something I don't want is far more important to me than saving $500.

Having said all that, I am not one of the people with 20 invites already (I have 8 so far). Nonetheless I understand people over-applying, with all the hype about competitiveness, and programs seeming to want to think they're the bomb because they had 500+ applications.
 
Wow...I feel attacked. I was told by my Dean that the average anesthesia applicant applies to 28 programs. Because of my low Step 1 score, she told me to apply to at least 35. Then when I meet with my anesthesia advisor we went over my whole list to make sure they were all places that would be good for me and that I would be happy. EVERY place I applied would be a place I would happily go for residency.

So as it has played out, it is hard to gear what the interview committees look for in applicants. Yes, I have way too many interviews and yes I am having a hard time deciding which ones to go on. But it is obviously better than not having enough, so yes, I would apply to this many again.

And – I did not actually schedule all of the interviews. If I knew I was not going to be able to make it to the interview date or make it to that state, I just sent a thank you but cannot attend email soon after the invite was sent.
 
Ok so I am considering canceling my St Barnabas interview... They are doing this weird 2 tier interview thing this year. They have 2 dates for mass interviews then determine if they will invite you back for a second interview and only plan to rank the applicants they interview twice. My research tells me they are like a 3rd -4th tier program so I am wondering if it is worth the hassle. I mean I am on the east coast so its a 3 hour drive... no plane ticket or anything... what do you think? Any feedback on this program?😕
 
My counselor in student affairs who has access to all the students information for the past x years she's been working here also said that most people apply to around 30 programs with interview offers at around 15 and eventually interviewing at 10-15 and ranking 10-12. There is strong interest in anesthesia at my school so maybe things seem more competitive than they actually are. However I do feel in retrospect that I over applied; I really feel horrible having to decline interviews.
It's always drilled into our heads that you can always cut down if you have too many but you can't get anymore if you didn't apply in the first place.
 
I wish I would have researched programs a little better before applying to them. In all honesty though, it's so hard for me to assess whether or not I'd like a program without visiting it.
 
Gah, so I dropped over $1000 on applications, and not by choice. I'm couple's matching with my SO who is going into a super-duper competitive residency program. If I wasn't couple's matching, I would def only apply to at max 30 programs. I'm sitting here with 16 interviews thus far, and feel horrible taking up these spots, but have no choice because my SO hasn't heard from any schools yet (they don't send invites until the Dean's Letter). I would go to ALL of the programs I applied to, its just a matter where our interviews line up. We hope to rank 15 programs with all of those crazy permutations. 🙄

I think that if you have the option, cancel the interview as soon as possible, so that other people can have a shot at it. I think as a whole, this years applicants are a nervous bunch, and most have probably over-applied making the process nerve-wracking for everyone. At our school, I know we've been flooded with applications, more so than usual. I think this speaks to the awesomeness of Anesthesiology, but we already knew that! 😀
 
wow GasPrincess....this is exactly my situation. sucks, doesn't it? we are trying to wait patiently for him to get interview invites but it's not working out so well (the patiently part, that is). we throw a giant party whenever we get one that matches up. haha! :scared:

oh well, at least we know that we'll end up with our SO at the end of this crazy process. 😀
 
Again, I'm not attacking anyone. I was in your guys shoes three years ago and I know how sketchy you can feel about the whole process. It's just that I know my program is having a really hard time sifting through all of the applications, which are up even significantly from last year (and, we have an awesome coordinator who does so much for us that I hate to see her under a pile of paper). And, I know for certain more people who've already committed to an interview date are going to cancel at the last minute, which happens a few times every year. This just doubles her work.

I just don't know how we improve this process, that's all. I think that it's too easy for people to check more boxes than they need to. I don't think people apply to 30+ med schools (I know I didn't), but then again maybe I'm wrong these days.

I wish all of you dudes/dudettes the best of luck in this nerve wracking process. 🙂

-copro
 
coprolalia said:
Again, I'm not attacking anyone. I was in your guys shoes three years ago and I know how sketchy you can feel about the whole process. It's just that I know my program is having a really hard time sifting through all of the applications, which are up even significantly from last year (and, we have an awesome coordinator who does so much for us that I hate to see her under a pile of paper). And, I know for certain more people who've already committed to an interview date are going to cancel at the last minute, which happens a few times every year. This just doubles her work.

I just don't know how we improve this process, that's all. I think that it's too easy for people to check more boxes than they need to. I don't think people apply to 30+ med schools (I know I didn't), but then again maybe I'm wrong these days.

I wish all of you dudes/dudettes the best of luck in this nerve wracking process. 🙂

-copro
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i suppose the simple solution would be for each program to offer more invitations, but that is more easily said than done because of the financial strain it would place upon them (especially those that pay for hotels, travel, food, etc). eventually applicants would figure out that you don't have to apply to as many programs to get to the magic number in order to match.

our dean of academic affairs labeled anesthesiology as extremely competitive based on whatever sources she has, and as a result she strongly recommended that each applicant apply to at least 20 programs. those who weren't "top tier" candidates were told to apply to 30+ programs. obviously she isn't the only one advising this strategy since the number of applications are going up across the board. perhaps the burden lies on the medical school administrators to get better information, but 1) someone would have to provide proper statistics and suggestions and 2) they'd still be extremely cautious because they're evaluated on the class' match rates.

of course all the PDs could just save themselves plenty of time going through applications by just finding mine and granting an interview 😀 one less spot to fill and one less app to read!
fingersx.gif
 
Well, part of the problem is that they need to let everyone know how many applicants there are for the number of available spots. For example, there were 1,334 spots for anesthesiology offered last year. According to the same data, there were 0.8 positions per all applicants. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, this means that there were only a total of roughly 1,667 applicants for all of those positions. Also, only 4.9% of U.S. allopathic seniors went unmatched (as opposed to 44.9% of independent applicants... DO's, IMG's, Fifth Pathway, etc.). So, the odds are pretty damn good if you're a U.S. allo senior coming out of a program that you are going to match (less than 1 in 20 that you won't). So, I just don't see the need to apply to so many programs, unless you are an independent applicant.

Source: http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2007.pdf

Just my thoughts.

-copro
 
Generous number of applications = higher chance of getting enough interviews to make a reasonable rank list = less chance of scramble. Scramble is bad news for students and for student affairs people who have to work with students on that day. Advising students to apply to more programs is a hedge for the student affairs office as well as the student applicant.
 
Do you think that since programs realize they are getting so many more apps they will increase the number of interview invites? Quite a few of the programs I am interviewing at had ratios of interview to spots of 5-7 :1
Which would make you think that if you were interviewing at 10 you would be pretty safe.
 
copro -
I don't disagree with you. Wish I would've known a few months ago. I feel very fortunate to be in the position that I am - worrying about having to cancel interviews as opposed to worried about unemployment - but if I would've researched programs better over the summer (I was busy...) and applied to fewer, my life would maybe be a little easier now (not that I'm really complaining, but I am feeling a little overwhelmed).
The major problem is that the prospect of "being unemployed" with a billion million dollars worth of debt is terrifying, so applying to lots of programs to cover your tush is somewhat reassuring.
 
I have been told by a program director that the whole interview process has become very frustrating over the past few years due to perceived competitiveness. Hundreds of applications, and everyone looking reasonably good on paper. They want to make sure that when they come in on saturdays to interview, they are not wasting their time with:

1. Difficult personalities
2. People who are only there as a backup plan and really have no interest in training at that program

I think the main thing they are looking for is motivation, interest, a personality that they will be able to deal with for three years, and no red flags on the application.

From an applicants point of view, however, I agree with the above posts. We need a job. Who knows what will happen. The last thing one would want is to look back in January and wish that they had applied to more places.

The whole thing may settle down in a few years. But I think right now the field is perceived to be competitive, which to me pretty much equals competitive.
 
It would also cut down on the number of apps to each place if there was more info posted on each program's website. I found most program's websites to be somewhat disorganized and definitely lacking in a lot of details.
Some useful items would be: where do residents actually go for fellowship/jobs? how many residents stay on as faculty? which faculty are actually involved in teaching?(post a lecture schedule) how many residents/faculty presented at the asa?(and post their abstracts) how far is the drive between rotation sites? what's the average cost of housing? what steps does the program take to ensure quality of life? are there decent food options either within the hospital or nearby?
 
gas87 said:
It would also cut down on the number of apps to each place if there was more info posted on each program's website. I found most program's websites to be somewhat disorganized and definitely lacking in a lot of details.
Some useful items would be: where do residents actually go for fellowship/jobs? how many residents stay on as faculty? which faculty are actually involved in teaching?(post a lecture schedule) how many residents/faculty presented at the asa?(and post their abstracts) how far is the drive between rotation sites? what's the average cost of housing? what steps does the program take to ensure quality of life? are there decent food options either within the hospital or nearby?
Click to expand...

some programs' websites are literally embarassing for them, they're so disorganized. I didn't apply to those programs.

I think there should be a standardized FAQ that each program needs to have on their website, with all that info. I think the standardization part would really make our lives easier as students... Then we can do a better job selecting programs to apply to.
 
Ferdie said:
some programs' websites are literally embarrassing for them, they're so disorganized. I didn't apply to those programs.

I think there should be a standardized FAQ that each program needs to have on their website, with all that info. I think the standardization part would really make our lives easier as students... Then we can do a better job selecting programs to apply to.
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I often wonder about that. Some programs haven't updated their website for years. My first impression is that they haven't updated anything for years and just plain don't care. I too have canceled interviews and not applied to programs solely based on the sad state of their website.
 
I cancelled Loyola
 
Declined an interview at Medical College of Wisconsin
 
Officially canceled Penn. Good luck for anyone who wants to go there! 🙂
 
Well, it was in a really weird place in my schedule, and I don't particularly want to go to phili. Also, I have to start to eliminate places due to financial constraints....so, it just so happened to be the one that didn't fit..no other huge reasons.
 
halflife94 said:
Do you think that since programs realize they are getting so many more apps they will increase the number of interview invites?
.
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They are simply holding the rejections

BTW
Is somebody canceling Wake Forest?
 
cancelling/withdrawing from today: University of Southern Cal, Boston U, Minnesota, U Washington, Henry Ford
 
I cancelled UT-San Antonio. My uncle is a anesthesiologist senior partner in private practice there and he said he just fired a recent grad from that program. They were really stupid apparently and poorly trained and he said that they wont hire anyone who graduated from that program for the next 10 years.
 
Ouch?

Doubtful. Their chairman rocks and my buddy is there: muy inteligente.

titanjones said:
I cancelled UT-San Antonio. My uncle is a anesthesiologist senior partner in private practice there and he said he just fired a recent grad from that program. They were really stupid apparently and poorly trained and he said that they wont hire anyone who graduated from that program for the next 10 years.
Click to expand...
 
titanjones said:
I cancelled UT-San Antonio. My uncle is a anesthesiologist senior partner in private practice there and he said he just fired a recent grad from that program. They were really stupid apparently and poorly trained and he said that they wont hire anyone who graduated from that program for the next 10 years.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the guy paints with a very large brush. I doubt you can make a judgment on an entire program based on one graduate.
 
anestheticman said:
Considering dropping out of AMC, Case-Metro, Case-UH, Rochester, and MCW just based on location. Any thoughts?
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I actually really like Case-UH's program. Also, their residents seem really happy and friendly.

Cleveland is not, however, the most exciting place to live, but I am told that it isn't a total drag.
 
Gasem said:
I actually really like Case-UH's program. Also, their residents seem really happy and friendly.

Cleveland is not, however, the most exciting place to live, but I am told that it isn't a total drag.
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Rock and Roll Hall of Fame!

This year's nominees:
Madonna
Beastie Boys
Chic
Donna Summer
John Mellencamp
Leonard Cohen

When I think of Rock and Roll, those are the names that come to mind first. The disco/rap/dance period of R&R was one of my favorites!🙄
 
amyl said:
will decline camden, barnabas, maine. still on the fence about buffalo and miami.
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I would cancel Buffalo before Maine. Portland, Maine is awesome. Buffalo has snow on the ground 6 months out of the year. It's ridiculous. The program in Buffalo sucks as well. Although, housing is more affordable in western NY compared to Maine.
 
I agree. Cancel buffalo, go for Maine. Awesome town, fun program from what I'm told. Got a buddy up there now!

anesguy1012 said:
I would cancel Buffalo before Maine. Portland, Maine is awesome. Buffalo has snow on the ground 6 months out of the year. It's ridiculous. The program in Buffalo sucks as well. Although, housing is more affordable in western NY compared to Maine.
Click to expand...
 
Cancelling Minnesota, Buffalo, Toledo, Missou-KC

Also considering cancelling Case-MH, simply because 2 separate road trips to cleveland for CCF and Case doesn't sound very awesome

By the way i have also heard some high praise for portland and the maine program and will definitely check it out (even though a flight from chicago is looking to run me almost $500😱 )
 
Cancelling Tufts-NEMC. Not sure about any others yet
 
So here is my story: Basically I originally picked out 13 programs to apply to but I decided that was an unlucky number ( I don't know why I'm superstitious about that) so I decided on 14 programs. I met with my dean and she told me to cast a wider net especially since most the programs I was applying to were considere "competitive" or "desirable" since a lot of them were in California (and I'm a midwesterner without a whole lot of connections out West and not from one of the "top" medical schools). So I applied to 17 programs when I submitted ERAS the 3rd week of September and then I added 2 programs in October when I heard good things about programs I had been on the fence about.

Basically I've done 2 anesthesia interviews and I loved both programs and I know that one of them will be at the top of my rank list due to the fact that I really felt like I fit in the program and also because of personal reasons that influence the geographical location I'd like end up in. I'll probably rank the other one high.

Plus, interviewing is stressful and I really don't think I have the time, energy, or desire to do more than 10 anesthesia interviews. So, I'm canceling some of my interviews - I applied to a lot of them b/c I thought they were good programs and I should consider them but basically their location doesn't really work out for my life. So, I hope that it helps by canceling the interviews one to 2 months in advance and they offer interviews to people who really think they might end up there. Good luck! (and let's hope that I'm not scrambling in March b/c I was over confident and didn't interview at enough programs)

Canceling: Stanford, UCSF, Mayo, Beth Israel Deaconess ...and probably declining future offers if I get them from a few programs I haven't heard from.
 
Cancelled St Barnabas... cancelling Saint Lukes if I can get another interview in a more desirable region
 
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