Official WAMC thread for EM applicants

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@r-e-l-a-x @liveonthewater thanks for the insight! Makes me feel better about not caring about research. I think I'll mainly focus on a solid board score for now. It sounds like getting good clinically throughout M3 before auditions is the most important thing?

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@r-e-l-a-x @liveonthewater thanks for the insight! Makes me feel better about not caring about research. I think I'll mainly focus on a solid board score for now. It sounds like getting good clinically throughout M3 before auditions is the most important thing?

Yeah, you got it.
M1: Figure out how you learn best. Get decent grades. Don't fail anything. Get involved early and often.
M2: Kill Step 1. Don't fail anything. Stay involved.
M3: Get solid grades and even better comments from attendings. Kill Step 2.
M4: Kill your auditions and get stellar SLOEs.

Sounds easy, right?
 
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Yeah, you got it.
M1: Figure out how you learn best. Get decent grades. Don't fail anything. Get involved early and often.
M2: Kill Step 1. Don't fail anything. Stay involved.
M3: Get solid grades and even better comments from attendings. Kill Step 2.
M4: Kill your auditions and get stellar SLOEs.

Sounds easy, right?

Not easy, but ^ is my plan xD
 
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imvho: MD student + no red flags + no bad SLOES = great chance of going wherever you want
I am also concerned about my similar Step 1 score, however, I would guess there are very few programs that specifically screen out a score of <220 without even looking at the CK. It's literally a single data point, but what do I know?

The EMRA match website and I believe Frieda have score cutoffs. That being said I had a similar Step 1 and a lower CS and likely not better SLOEs and got interviews to about 1/4 of the places I applied, even to one where my Step 1 was below the reported cutoff.

What I'm saying is youll be fine as long as you're a normal person in interviews.

Any programs that are friendly towards students with <220 Step 1 you guys can share?
 
Any programs that are friendly towards students with <220 Step 1 you guys can share?

I would check the rank order list threads from recent years and see where people with similar stats to you got interviews. Also you have a better shot if you apply in your med school region or a region where you have ties.
 
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@gamerEMdoc (n=1), but from a PD perspective, is there a board score range you look for?

step 1 > 230+? (or higher?)

step 2 > step 1?

thanks for the continued help!

in regards to the post below (I can take a call out xD)
 
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Not calling out any one particular poster, since it happens all the time, but sometimes I'm surprised by the questions that get posted here, asking @gamerEMdoc about his personal approach to candidate selection. Nearly always, the answer predictably comes down to "it depends on the program, but generally, the SLOE is the most important thing."

It's like writing in to ask, "Dear Abby, do you like beards?"
 
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@gamerEMdoc (n=1), but from a PD perspective, is there a board score range you look for?

step 1 > 230+? (or higher?)

step 2 > step 1?

thanks for the continued help!

in regards to the post below (I can take a call out xD)

See Surely's response above this one.

I don't really care about the board scores. I look at everyones SLOEs first when deciding on interviews. I just don't like to see failures of boards, other than that, the scores don't make a determining factor. That's coming from one single program. I can't speak for everyone. Do as well as you can on the boards. Its as simple as that. Just do as well as you possibly can, but don't go crazy about the result one way or the other. Because in the end, its your SLOEs that will make the difference in the match.
 
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Any programs that are friendly towards students with <220 Step 1 you guys can share?
going to reiterate what has been said in other posts, SLOES are key. I got ~30 interview invites with a low 210s step 1 (and 240+ step 2) and good SLOEs
 
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going to reiterate what has been said in other posts, SLOES are key. I got ~30 interview invites with a low 210s step 1 (and 240+ step 2) and good SLOEs

!!

Out of curiosity, did you have any research? (Or other special ECs?)
 
sloes and 3rd year grades are most important. there are people with fails on step 1 that received interviews at places I did not. i got 20+ invites so i guess i shouldnt be bitter, but if I match outside my top 5 i will be.
Try not to be bitter, if can happen. Just match and go from there. Every application is different and there are some factors outside of your control.
 
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What is your opinion on getting interviews in January? Got 2 at places I like in the last week. Am I likely to end up on the bottom of their rank lists or do I have a good shot?
Think of it as competing with all other applicants. If you have a great interview there’s always room on the list. That said it can be a crapshoot. Most programs rank people generally after the interview and go back after interview season is over and make the final rank list. So you will be fresh on the mind of faculty, whether that’s good or bad.
 
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What is your opinion on getting interviews in January? Got 2 at places I like in the last week. Am I likely to end up on the bottom of their rank lists or do I have a good shot?

In my opinion, timing of the interview is 100% a non-issue.
 
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Hello! More than halfway through M3 year now and currently working on away applications, so I thought I'd as for advice/general thoughts here.

Step 1: 210s
Third quintile in my class, ~90% average after the first two years.

I've done Medicine (Honors), Psych (Honors), and OB/GYN (HP). Evaluations are mostly great, mostly social skills stuff, with a sprinkling of "eager to learn more." The most negative things have been "read more" or "practice more suturing." A couple of attendings had some specific stories from the wards that I do not even remember (rounds are always a blur to me), so my evals are far from generic I would say.

Other things:
solid research (10+ pubs, posters, abstracts overall), some unique humanities-type activities my school likes a lot, clinic manager for student-run free clinic

I'm hoping for a huge score increase for Step 2, been really working hard keeping up with the material this year. I plan on doing 2-3 aways (is this overkill?), on top of the 2 EM rotations my school offers. Those 2 rotations are at different sites and I get a SLOE from each site.

Thoughts/advice much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
 
Round 2:

Currently an TRI in an EM Track. Didn't match AOA last year and withdrew from ACGME, was ranked to match at 1 ACGME program(found out afterwards when soliciting feedback), didn't apply broadly enough.

COMLEX: 524/545/PE Pass- all first time passes, Will have Level 3 score by interview season
SLOES: Top 10%, Middle 1/3, EMS Subspecialty Top 10%; Regular LOR and should get a decent LOR from my TRI PD
Grades: H/H/H/HP/H- 2 home, 3 away EM rotations
Bottom quartile preclinical grades
Poster presentations, 3 conference presentations-all EM relevant

Applying this year to 45 programs, mostly former AOA and known DO friendly ACGME where I meet the published cutoffs, plus new programs. Will try to make ACEP and ACOEP residency fairs and get my name out there.


So to update:

Applied to 57 programs total, to include 2 new ones that just got accredited.

4 Interviews: 1 AOA, 3 ACGME. Keeping my fingers crossed for the 2 new ones that are interviewing now.

2 programs told me I had excellent SLOE's.

1 vague positive post-interview communication.

AOA match tomorrow, here goes nothing....
 
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So to update:

Applied to 57 programs total, to include 2 new ones that just got accredited.

4 Interviews: 1 AOA, 3 ACGME. Keeping my fingers crossed for the 2 new ones that are interviewing now.

2 programs told me I had excellent SLOE's.

1 vague positive post-interview communication.

AOA match tomorrow, here goes nothing....

Best of luck Cajun!
 
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Hey I was wondering if someone could respond or PM their thoughts if it is realistic for me to pursue EM.

DO student in U.S.
Canadian- Will need visa sponsorship
Step 1: 240
Comlex: 610
Research: 1 paper, 3 posters

My main concern is the fact I need a visa. Will that be a huge red flag for EM programs?
 
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The match rate for non-US foreign medical grads is pretty bad. However, there is no match data that I am aware of for non-citizen US grads such as yourself. No one will ever be able to judge your competitiveness based on board scores though. Thats not how an EM candidate is evaluated. Your boards wont be a hinderance, thats about all that can be gleened. The visa sponsorship will likely be your biggest hinderance, but Id bet you’ll be fine. Because you are a US grad, there should be no reason why you won’t be able to get multiple SLOEs from reliable programs, which IMO holds many FMG apps back.
 
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The match rate for non-US foreign medical grads is pretty bad. However, there is no match data that I am aware of for non-citizen US grads such as yourself. No one will ever be able to judge your competitiveness based on board scores though. Thats not how an EM candidate is evaluated. Your boards wont be a hinderance, thats about all that can be gleened. The visa sponsorship will likely be your biggest hinderance, but Id bet you’ll be fine. Because you are a US grad, there should be no reason why you won’t be able to get multiple SLOEs from reliable programs, which IMO holds many FMG apps back.


Thanks for your input. Yeah, I found one stat that said 30 Canadian 4th year DO students participated in the ACGME match in 2016, so there are very few of us.

I think there are 172 EM programs that offer visa sponsorship. Do you reckon that applying to all of them would put me in a comfortable shot at matching, assuming everything else is in order ( SLOEs, video interview ect..)?
 
If you have good SLOEs, you won't have to apply to that many. 172 would be overkill if you have good sloes, visa issue or not IMO. If you're more a middle of the road applicant though, I'd apply very very broadly.
 
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Hi, third year gearing up for away rotations here. Does anyone know if it matters which institution a SLOE comes from? For instance, If I do an away at a new program (only graduated 8 classes) and get a top 1/3 SLOE is the letter considered "weaker" than a program with a big name that's graduated lots of residents where I might get a middle 1/3?
 
Hi, third year gearing up for away rotations here. Does anyone know if it matters which institution a SLOE comes from? For instance, If I do an away at a new program (only graduated 8 classes) and get a top 1/3 SLOE is the letter considered "weaker" than a program with a big name that's graduated lots of residents where I might get a middle 1/3?

SLOEs are taken into context. It's not always about the name of the institution. There are some institutions that are terrible at grade distribution over-rate their sloes. There are places you may never have heard of that are tough graders. The SLOE not only asks where you are going to rank the candidate, but how many you are putting into each category. So a Top 10% SLOE is great, unless 95% of the people that rotate at a place get top 10%.

Rotate where you want to match, and where you think you have a chance of matching. Don't over think it and try to game the SLOE system. Just rotate where you want to match.

Also, a program that has graduated 8 classes isn't a new program. That's a fully accredited program that has been around for over 10 years. Half of the EM programs in existence today didn't exist 20 years ago. So 10 years in EM is actually a program that's been around a little while. The specialty isn't that old.
 
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So to update:

Applied to 57 programs total, to include 2 new ones that just got accredited.

4 Interviews: 1 AOA, 3 ACGME. Keeping my fingers crossed for the 2 new ones that are interviewing now.

2 programs told me I had excellent SLOE's.

1 vague positive post-interview communication.

AOA match tomorrow, here goes nothing....

I'm rooting for you! I think ive been following your posts since my pre-med days, excited to see where you match and how things go.
 
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Hey everyone! I'm a DO MS3 applying for 4th year audition rotations. I took COMLEX Level 1 but havent taken Step 1 yet (plan on taking it in May). I didn't do that well on Level 1 (less than 500). I was wondering if it will be difficult to get audition rotations because of a lack of Step 1 and low Level 1 score. Do programs emphasize scores when deciding who to offer rotations spots? If so what can I do secure 2-3 EM rotations for 4th year?

Your best bet, with only comlex scores, and ones that aren't that competitive, are to apply heavily to former AOA programs IMO. Obviously if your school has a home rotation, or if you have a program in your home town that will extend you a rotation because you are local, then go for those, but otherwise, my guess is your best bet will be former AOA turned ACGME programs. There's a ton of them now.
 
Changed the name since I've put enough info on here to identify me over the years.

State school in the South, not considered flagship state medical school.
Pre-clinical: Passed everything, mostly C's.
Clinical: A's in peds/obgyn. B's in the other clerkships.
Step 1: 211
Step 2: TBD

Significantly non-trad, married with kids, worked in ED prior to medical school. Would like to stay at home institution, if possible (school age kids, spouse has a job here). My advisor/dept chair is recommending me have a back-up specialty (probably FM) just in case I don't match. I have applied to 4 away rotations on VSAS and all but one have gotten back to me that they denied my application.

What do I do? What if I don't get an away rotation? Does that kill my chances of EM?

I basically went to med school to be an ER doc, end of story. I know I'm not the most competitive candidate but I don't have any true red flags other than my low Step 1.

Got Step 2 back today. 224.

I was able to get 1 away rotation at a community program. I had no complaints at my home program rotation and would really like to stay. I should have a really good SLOE from home. I imagine I will at my away as well.

Is a back-up necessary? It'll probably be pediatrics if I must. Mainly, because I can do peds EM.

I will be applying to every 3 year program in the South and Midwest except the high tier programs where I have no chance. I think there's 42 programs saved on my ERAS right now.

This is me. After 2 application seasons, a research gap year after graduation, I can say I have matched into an EM residency program. Was it easy? Hell no but I did it!

What went wrong?
- Low board scores, I psych myself out and second guess myself a lot on written exams.
- CS failure, I guess that made it where I didn’t get anything in SOAP which made me able to match this year in EM
-bad SLOE at my away. I disliked the program. It was weirdly arranged. And I’m brutally honest and don’t hold back on my opinions. It hurt me, but the program never had the balls to tell me that I wasn’t doing well even when I asked for feedback.

Suggestions for others?

-Do at least 2 always/3 EM rotations for SLOEs. That way if you dislike a program, it doesn’t tank your app. It’s hard to be enthusiastic about a place when you don’t like it.
- People lie. Never trust a program if they say they’ll take care if you or you’re ranked to match. People lie. They lie to your face and don’t think twice.
- EM is crazy competitive now. So much more than when I started this journey in 2009 at age 27.
- If you’ve got below average boards, get an amazing SLOE to counteract the lower scores. Make sure you rock your aways.
- Be prepared to apply to backups. FM people staff the little EDs in tiny towns. They can’t pay for EM-boarded people so FM will still staff those EDs for some time. But they don’t pay as well.

Just my thoughts on this crazy process.
 
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Around what time should we be concerned if nothing is coming back from VSAS programs? I've applied to the majority of the about 2 weeks ago and am hearing silence. Have a 225 step 1, no other red flags. Anyone else in this boat?
 
I personally would guess that by the end of April if you haven’t heard anything it may be somewhat concerning.

It wouldn’t hurt to send an email to programs and ask if there’s any updates or if they are processing applications yet.

One program that I want to apply to doesn’t even open on VSAS till 5/1

Out of all the vsas programs I applied to, only 3 have responded back. Though a classmate and I both applied to one program and he heard back within a week and it’s still been silence for me.
 
I personally would guess that by the end of April if you haven’t heard anything it may be somewhat concerning.

It wouldn’t hurt to send an email to programs and ask if there’s any updates or if they are processing applications yet.

One program that I want to apply to doesn’t even open on VSAS till 5/1

Out of all the vsas programs I applied to, only 3 have responded back. Though a classmate and I both applied to one program and he heard back within a week and it’s still been silence for me.

Have you gotten any aways for July or August from those three? I'm still hoping programs are taking students for these vital months.
 
I obtained one on vsas for July and one via clinician nexus for August
 
Hi everyone! I was hoping for some advice as a reapplicant. I applied EM last year but did not get any interviews. I think that my problems were: (1) having below average SLOEs and (2) never taking step 2 ck. I've decided to delay graduation to 2020 to do more away rotations and reapply next year. I've received multiple away offers, and I'm trying to decide how many to take vs. how much time to devote to getting letters of recommendation for applications in another specialty.

I can do aways basically June through September (for SLOEs) and on into next year if I so choose, but I'm not sure how beneficial that would be. My gut tells me to take a million aways just for the fun of traveling around the country doing EM rotations and improving my knowledge and skills. But I'm on private loans now and if I don't match next year, it could be difficult to repay these long term. Do I need a backup specialty for next cycle?

-Step 1: 250-260
-Step 2 cs: passed; ck: haven't taken - practice tests at 250
-Awards in MS1 and MS2 for academic performance
-Mediocre MS3
-No red flags other than as listed above

Thanks for your time - any advice you can provide is appreciated!
 
Hi everyone! I was hoping for some advice as a reapplicant. I applied EM last year but did not get any interviews. I think that my problems were: (1) having below average SLOEs and (2) never taking step 2 ck. I've decided to delay graduation to 2020 to do more away rotations and reapply next year. I've received multiple away offers, and I'm trying to decide how many to take vs. how much time to devote to getting letters of recommendation for applications in another specialty.

I can do aways basically June through September (for SLOEs) and on into next year if I so choose, but I'm not sure how beneficial that would be. My gut tells me to take a million aways just for the fun of traveling around the country doing EM rotations and improving my knowledge and skills. But I'm on private loans now and if I don't match next year, it could be difficult to repay these long term. Do I need a backup specialty for next cycle?

-Step 1: 250-260
-Step 2 cs: passed; ck: haven't taken - practice tests at 250
-Awards in MS1 and MS2 for academic performance
-Mediocre MS3
-No red flags other than as listed above

Thanks for your time - any advice you can provide is appreciated!
The issue will depend on your red flags. What are they? Either critical SLOE or professional. Wasn’t CK.
 
Hi everyone! I was hoping for some advice as a reapplicant. I applied EM last year but did not get any interviews. I think that my problems were: (1) having below average SLOEs and (2) never taking step 2 ck. I've decided to delay graduation to 2020 to do more away rotations and reapply next year. I've received multiple away offers, and I'm trying to decide how many to take vs. how much time to devote to getting letters of recommendation for applications in another specialty.

I can do aways basically June through September (for SLOEs) and on into next year if I so choose, but I'm not sure how beneficial that would be. My gut tells me to take a million aways just for the fun of traveling around the country doing EM rotations and improving my knowledge and skills. But I'm on private loans now and if I don't match next year, it could be difficult to repay these long term. Do I need a backup specialty for next cycle?

-Step 1: 250-260
-Step 2 cs: passed; ck: haven't taken - practice tests at 250
-Awards in MS1 and MS2 for academic performance
-Mediocre MS3
-No red flags other than as listed above

Thanks for your time - any advice you can provide is appreciated!

I'm confused, are you saying you still haven't passed Step 2CK yet? I mean I get not taking it by the time applications go live, but you should have taken it by now. That being said, it wasn't CK, I assure you. Programs don't avoid interviewing a candidate because they hadn't taken Step 2 yet. It was 100% your SLOEs. There's major red flags in there if you got zero interviews. That tells me you need to scrap all of them and start over and get all new SLOEs if you want a chance to match EM this year. The only way it wasn't the SLOEs is if there is another huge red flag you aren't mentioning (which you said there isn't). People who get one or sometimes two low 1/3 SLOEs still often get at least some interviews and still can match. So the fact that you got none tells me there is some really damning statements in last years SLOEs and possibly a DNR SLOE or two.

Before anything else, you need to get insight into what is going wrong. How did you get decent board scores and academic awards in M1-2, then get all mediocre grades in M3 and presumably terrible SLOEs. Whatever is going wrong with your clinical performance isn't a knowledge issue. You have to figure this out, first and foremost, and fix it. You need someone you've rotated with who maybe graded you poorly to give you as much brutally honest insight as possible. Is it a confidence thing? A personality thing? Inappropriate behavior? Too overbearing? Poor organization? You need to figure this part out, ASAP. The fact that you applied last year implies you did EM rotations last year, and those places chose not to interview you. To me, that would be a great place to start by asking for feedback about what it was that made you undesirable as an applicant.

Once you know what to work on, if you want to reapply EM, you'll need 2-3 new SLOEs. Since USUALLY people get interviews where they rotate, I'd make sure these are at some less competitive places. That way, they are going to give you your best shot at making an impression and matching.

As for a backup, yes you should have one. You never want to risk not matching a second year. This isn't a case where you got 15 interviews and didn't match. You had zero interviews. Your chances of matching EM typically go down as a re-applicant, and you were at 0% chance last year since you didn't have interviews. You absolutely need a backup plan.

All of this doesn't mean you can't match in EM. You actually could because I presume you had disasterous SLOEs in an otherwise good application. You have the opportunity to basically start completely over again and re-do a few AI rotations and get all new SLOEs. So the opportunity is there, its more learning from what went wrong by getting brutally honest feedback and insight, and trying to fix it. Because you have more than enough time to do 2-3 EM rotations, you should also have enough time to do 1-2 FP or IM rotations for a backup as well.
 
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Thank you so much for your response! I'll work on figuring out what went wrong with my SLOEs and go from there. It's such a black box! My home institution says that they "weren't memorable" and act weird when I ask about them. Then they gave in and said that they'd look them over again at some point and give me more complete feedback. Hopefully, something comes of this process. I'll also start pursuing the two rotations last year where I rotated but did not interview and see what they're willing to offer. This isn't an avenue that I previously considered, so I thank you much for the suggestion. Finally, I'll keep the backup plan. I think I can get by with just one non-EM AI for the fall as long as I get a letter of recommendation. That way I can keep many aways for the fall in case there's a repeat of what happened last year at one of them.
 
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Not much more to say, not exactly sure why or how that happened but it did. Ive been wanting to do EM for years now but should I give up? I did mediocre during pre-clinical years. Solid leadership and research background. I would like to say that M3 year is going to go well but my confidence is pretty low right now.
 
Your application will likely be electronically screened out. I would do a handful of sub Is at lower tier places and work your a** off in the hopes of getting in on your clinical accumen. You need an IM/FM/Pedi back up for sure.
 
FM + EM Fellowship
IM + CC felloship
Peds + PEM fellowship

About the only way you are going to get a similar career. However, this may be a blessing in disguise. Increasingly, EM is dominated by corporate interests and the next 20 years won't be nearly as good as the previous 20. With the changes in medicine, you may be best served to find yourself a niche in the out of hospital environment through an IM/FM route.
 
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I'm a terrible test taker. My Step 1 wasn't great. Although I can't remember what it was. I actually failed Step 2 the first time.

Got into an ER Ivy league residency program of generally very good repute.

I agree with everyone else, you should have a backup - that is smart. But don't give up. Another angle to take is to get on very good terms with your Med School's EM PD, and maybe he/she can put in a good word for you when you apply. If I were a PD, and a fellow PD called me and said "you should take this guy...his scores aren't great but he will really be a good resident" that will go a long way towards matching in ER.
 
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I don't think the door is completely closed, but you need a solid strategy and a back up plan.

Your application will likely be screened out at a lot of programs. If you want to increase your chances of matching, you'll need to bypass those screens. Some ways to do that are by rotating at that program, by having someone make a call on your behalf, networking (at conferences, through leadership positions, etc.) or by emailing the program directly.

Having a decent Step 2 score by the time you apply will go a long way in allaying programs' worries about your ability to pass the boards.
 
I haven't matched yet but as an M4 with a step score on the lower end, I can offer you a few tidbits of my experience. Everyone I've talked to says SLOEs are still king. Getting a SLOE is where the score might bite you because a ton of VSAS programs have a 225 cutoff to rotate. That might be our biggest hill to climb. It caused me a good bit of stress, but in the end I still managed to snag 3 aways (DOs do what DOs gotta do). Apply where your school has historically matched well, apply to local programs that might know your school name, and be vigilant in emailing/calling those programs about getting a spot to rotate, and ay the force be with you.
 
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