Oh boy a new school in CA

Started by scalded
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scalded said:
great. Just what we need more Optometrists pouring out and saturating the market.

http://chronicle.com/jobs/id.php?id=0000474507-01

👎
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The topic of the new optometry school came up in class today. I agree with the too-often expressed sentiment on SDN that we DON'T need more optometrists. I did find it interesting, however, to learn that this school will have a big emphasis in neuro-optometry, and the optometry students will spend their first year or so taking classes with the other disciplines at the school (DO and I can't remember what else). Should make for a different "flavor" to the education than available at other schools. (But I bet that "flavor" comes at a very pretty price...)
 
prettygreeneyes said:
The topic of the new optometry school came up in class today. I agree with the too-often expressed sentiment on SDN that we DON'T need more optometrists. I did find it interesting, however, to learn that this school will have a big emphasis in neuro-optometry, and the optometry students will spend their first year or so taking classes with the other disciplines at the school (DO and I can't remember what else). Should make for a different "flavor" to the education than available at other schools. (But I bet that "flavor" comes at a very pretty price...)
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I'm so glad I don't live in California, where this will impact the most, at first. Its just sad no one is paying attention to the fact that we don't need more OD's. In a whole year of optometry rotations with three based only on disease, it wasn't that much neuro. What a waste of a school.
 
as long as it sounds good why not??? mix the words holistic, comprehensive, cutting edge, neuro, etc together and you can get a phrase that sounds like a pretty damn good idea regardless of its base in reality.


it really suprises me that with all the "disgruntled" ODs and current practioners that noone has yet to publish a paper regarding the real state of optometry. Is it because academia is so jaded? Maybe a current practioner can begin a study or convince his academic colleagues to do so.
 
Ryan_eyeball said:
I'm so glad I don't live in California, where this will impact the most, at first. Its just sad no one is paying attention to the fact that we don't need more OD's. In a whole year of optometry rotations with three based only on disease, it wasn't that much neuro. What a waste of a school.
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Yeah, I live in Oregon I can't wait for the californian grads to decide the market is too crowded and move on north. Ugg.
 
North Carolina was going to open a new school with a similar set up, and looked at UABSO program. We take all our basic sciences with the dental school and med neuro with the medical class. In the end North Carolina really underestimated the amount of money needed and decided against it.

I wouldn't be too concerned about western. They seem way over eager from that power point—it wont happen.
 
docvisionX said:
Interesting. I was curious so I looked this up. Western has big plans for the future apparently. I found a powerpoint presentation on their web site that projects to have an enrollment of 140 by 2010. Here's the link, if you're curious and bored like I was.

http://www.westernu.edu/bin/cape/10 yr strategic plan.ppt
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I don't know how you found this article, it almost seems like one of those strategic moves that aren't usually public. 😉 It all looks very interesting, especially since optometry is limited in scope in California. This school will probably have an effect on the future of optometry. If there are 3 schools of optometry in California that will definately curve the formal education of a good % of doctors.
While I don't agree with the timing of this mission (by the time the institute is set to have an effect most of the baby boomers will be gone) I think we should get involved whether we agree or not. (KHE I'm sure you would make a great teacher!)
As to my opinion about it, I support it. I know that goes against most everyone here, but I see it as an opportunity. To add to that, I was surprised when a classmate told me that Optometrists have troubles working together (turf or something like that.) Personally I have a hard time understanding how a discipline can survive when it is self defeating. Kind of goes against social evolution doesn't it?
 
Schroder79 said:
As to my opinion about it, I support it. I know that goes against most everyone here, but I see it as an opportunity. To add to that, I was surprised when a classmate told me that Optometrists have troubles working together (turf or something like that.) Personally I have a hard time understanding how a discipline can survive when it is self defeating. Kind of goes against social evolution doesn't it?
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I see you're in Forest Grove. Upon graduation try to open a practice/find a decent paying job in the greater Portland area. After that tell me that we need more ODs - well trained or not. Perhaps you can expound on what the opportunity is that you see.
 
Schroder79 said:
While I don't agree with the timing of this mission (by the time the institute is set to have an effect most of the baby boomers will be gone) I think we should get involved whether we agree or not. (KHE I'm sure you would make a great teacher!)
As to my opinion about it, I support it. I know that goes against most everyone here, but I see it as an opportunity. To add to that, I was surprised when a classmate told me that Optometrists have troubles working together (turf or something like that.) Personally I have a hard time understanding how a discipline can survive when it is self defeating. Kind of goes against social evolution doesn't it?
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Can you elaborate on why you are supporting this new school?

RE: Your point about me being a good teacher

Thank you for the compliment. I like to think that I am a good teacher. I have always gotten favorable responses from my current students and I feel that they usually leave my class knowing more than when they came in.

RE: Your point about baby boomers

We really have to stop thinking that baby boomers are somehow going to save optometry. The baby boomers have been presbyopic for years and they are already in the "optometric system" There is nothing about the baby boomer demographic that is going to cause it to need a sudden increase in optometric services.

RE: Your point about optometrists not working well with each other

I agree with your classmate. For whatever reason, optometrists by and large have a lone wolf mentality and don't really work and play well with others. I'm not really sure why this is but I think that most ODs really are "small time" thinkers. THey get comfortable in their little office seeing their little patients and making their comfortable living. The desire to grow or expand just isn't there like it usually is with most entrepreneurs. This is why you see so few true optometric partnerships or group practices. By and large, OD offices are relatively small solo practices. ODs also tend to be overly suspicious of each other. That was one of the bigger disappointments for me. I thought that when I graduated I would be entering a profession that was essentially like a fraternity, where academic and business issues would be cordially discussed amongst the members. I didnt find this. I found a profession where there was constant suspicion of each other and where doctors would take every opportunity to run down other doctors given half a chance.
 
KHE said:
RE: Your point about optometrists not working well with each other

I agree with your classmate. For whatever reason, optometrists by and large have a lone wolf mentality and don't really work and play well with others. I'm not really sure why this is but I think that most ODs really are "small time" thinkers. THey get comfortable in their little office seeing their little patients and making their comfortable living. The desire to grow or expand just isn't there like it usually is with most entrepreneurs. This is why you see so few true optometric partnerships or group practices. By and large, OD offices are relatively small solo practices. ODs also tend to be overly suspicious of each other. That was one of the bigger disappointments for me. I thought that when I graduated I would be entering a profession that was essentially like a fraternity, where academic and business issues would be cordially discussed amongst the members. I didnt find this. I found a profession where there was constant suspicion of each other and where doctors would take every opportunity to run down other doctors given half a chance.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
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It might actually be beneficial to have a large number of optometrists around, so you guys can form big political alliance to fight against ophthalmologists for refractive surgical and prescription rights. In a decade or so, general ophthalmologists will be put out of business by you guys. This is the perfect time to take over primary eye care!
 
According to the latest Optometric Physician e-journal, there are potentially going to be schools in Texas and Arizona as well as California. They are all affiliated with DO schools and the rumor is they are all already funded. I have no idea about how true this is, but I doubt Art Epstein would mention it if it wasn't a possibility.
 
Ground has already been broken for this school. The building will house not only optometry but also podiatry and pharmacy. I'd say it is funded if they've broken ground.
 
A friend of mine that just graduated from the DO school in Arizona told me the Optometry school there will also open.

I wonder if 3 schools open, others may be forced to close? Maybe this is the "greater plan."
 
hoosier1 said:
anyone have a new link to the article it no longer works. i read the powerpoint but i want to read the article
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Good question. Maybe the article got pulled because the Dean Position for the new school in Pomona got filled already?
 
I was considering looking at the opening of the 3 schools with a different perspective. There are positive aspects to it. I do not think these 3 schools are all opening in the Southwest by pure coincidence. After all there are only 3 schools in the west and they are quite homogeneous in nature. Perhaps these 3 new schools will consider more diversity and project the true population of the southwest. After all we know that when perfectly good preoptometry students from the west get deployed (I mean sent) to the Northeast, NOVA and Puerto Rico they don't have as good a chance as the local optometry students in those local schools. So perhaps this is the best thing for Optometry. To open local schools that will accept people from these local areas and due to the cultural similarities will do better in school and in the Optometry community. Obviously I just came back from one of those "cultural diversity in optometry" CE courses...:laugh: ... but seriously folks, there has to be a legitimate reason for this bold move despite all the moaning and groaning from current optometrists. Maybe current optometrists are not content with the opening of 3 new schools but I bet pre-optometry students in the southwest are. I am just trying to look at the whole picture.
 
The pre-optom people might be happy to hear about the new optom schools now, but I bet they won't be smiling when they can't find jobs upon graduation.
 
salmonella said:
The pre-optom people might be happy to hear about the new optom schools now, but I bet they won't be smiling when they can't find jobs upon graduation.
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They'll always find jobs, just at half the pay and worse hours, benefits, etc. etc. etc. 🙂
 
KHE said:
Can you elaborate on why you are supporting this new school?

I have to admit that being on this forum I have been learning a lot of things that aren't being taught in my school. ie. I wasn't aware that too many optometrists was an issue. I've been asking around a lot for better understanding so I can learn it better.

As for this new school; I guess my main argument is that the current status of eye care in the US is not good enough right now. I didn't know why I couldn't play sports well (basketball never hit the hoop, baseball never hit the ball) until I came to optometry school. Frankly I'm not sure I would have learned if I hadn't come to PUCO since most schools don't deal with VT.
I can see the argument that schools are fighting to get more applicants to get money and more schools probably means less applicants per school. (I guess that % of revenue would be small anyway but gossip has said that's why opt. schools want more applicants.) For another thing more optometrists would mean more political power. Optometrists can go into research and other jobs rather than compete for patients. I feel optometrists are better refracters than any other profession; patients should be referred to us to get a good prescription. Would you place more value on an Rx by an unfamiliar optometrist or ophthalmalogist? (just curious actually, not meant to prove a point or anything.) I think that a new school would broaden the prespective of the practice. California could sure use some help in broadening the practice (that's why I don't plan on practicing there even though I grew up there.)
I also think more optometrists would force more cohesion within the practice. If competition is high, you got to be good to keep your practice going.

So this is where my train of thoughts are going but as I said I am still new to this concept and with all this discussion my understanding is certainly growing.
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