OMFS and DA new grad salaries

[dwn-test]

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I saw the recent thread about ortho new grad earning potential, and was curious what it would look like for OMFS and DA, for those that have experience to share.

Hope to generate some discussion on what people feel are the best fields to be in for the next 10-20 years, macro trends of the dental space etc.

 

[somefuturedoc]

I spoke with a couple DSOs at AAOMS. They were offering around 750k, can require traveling between multiple offices

 

[Bentley242]

I spoke with a couple DSOs at AAOMS. They were offering around 750k, can require traveling between multiple offices

How many days a week?

 

[Colastick]

Omfs. i have worked at different DSOs that claim this kind of income but none of them panned out to be true. It was so location and office manager dependent and if every single location is great, then maybe but every location is not great. Plus traveling and DSO model just wasnt for me all of which factors led me to quit DSO. But many diff DSOs exist and i have only worked at two so take that with a grain of salt.

I worked at dso and private model and expecting $250-400k as a new grad would be reasonable.

 

[dwn-test]

Omfs. i have worked at different DSOs that claim this kind of income but none of them panned out to be true. It was so location and office manager dependent and if every single location is great, then maybe but every location is not great. Plus traveling and DSO model just wasnt for me all of which factors led me to quit DSO. But many diff DSOs exist and i have only worked at two so take that with a grain of salt.

I worked at dso and private model and expecting $250-400k as a new grad would be reasonable.

Based on the discussion I see online about OMFS earning potential, that (moreso the 250) is on the lower side of what I would've expected.

was this rural or urban?

How would you expect someone earning 300k first year out to project for the next 3 or so years?

 

[D1Bound]

Omfs. i have worked at different DSOs that claim this kind of income but none of them panned out to be true. It was so location and office manager dependent and if every single location is great, then maybe but every location is not great. Plus traveling and DSO model just wasnt for me all of which factors led me to quit DSO. But many diff DSOs exist and i have only worked at two so take that with a grain of salt.

I worked at dso and private model and expecting $250-400k as a new grad would be reasonable.

250k is abysmal

 

[Life of Pablo]

Omfs. i have worked at different DSOs that claim this kind of income but none of them panned out to be true. It was so location and office manager dependent and if every single location is great, then maybe but every location is not great. Plus traveling and DSO model just wasnt for me all of which factors led me to quit DSO. But many diff DSOs exist and i have only worked at two so take that with a grain of salt.

I worked at dso and private model and expecting $250-400k as a new grad would be reasonable.

Where are you located? Most offers I’m seeing as an associate private practice are 350-400K base and then X% production over 1M. I mean, academics is paying 350K nowadays.

At the end of the day, the real money is in ownership/partnership.

 

[702]

250k is abysmal

Private equity runs every field to the ground.

 

[Colastick]

My number is urban. I was making higher end of the range and it went up from there but not because of dso. The lower end of the range is based on some ppl i saw that was part of a very large group and some people who were promised full time job but that didnt work out.

I see lots of crazy number being thrown out there for omfs and at least from what i know, that is not typical or you are being squeezed every drop of your sanity for you to make the number. So dont go into omfs thinking you are going to have an easy life making million+ right off the bet

 

[White_Sponge_Nevus]

The answer for OMFS will vary wildly based off other factors people already outline.d

As others have said, the real money comes from buying into a private practice partnership/pwnership. This generally involves taking a lower paying ($300-400k) or so associateship contract and "proving yourself" for a period of time until you can borrow the money/have put it enough sweat equity to buy in.

Private equity/DSO disrupts the above process which been the norm for decades by: A) offering te guys who are aging out a lot more money, in cash, than younger OMFS are able to addord in financed purchases and B) by paying new grads substantially more ($500-750k) for associateship contracts than the old guys on the way out are willing to. You ahve to ask "where is this money coming from, and how long will it continue to pour in?"

Ask anyone who has worked for a PE/DSO/coporate model AND been a private practice owner how the two compare... asking someone who has only done one vs the other and not both would likely give you an incomplete picture. Generally, people who go PE/DSO right out of residency for the initial higher pay leave because they either get frustrated with the lack of autonomy or the pay ceiling (despite the higher floor). People who take the true private practice "earn your stripes" route are frustrated by the intitial low pay but are much happier as partners/owners, albiet running the risk of getting screwed over by the old guy who won't sell at a previously discussed timeline

 

[White_Sponge_Nevus]

Take a realistic scenario such as this to think about it:

Would you rather work three years in a row at pPE/DSO/coprorate as a W-2 employee making $500, 600, 750k for an average of $617k per year pre tax with the lack of autonomycontrol, or would you rather make $350, 375k, 1.2 mill for an average of $642 per year pre-tax, two years as a W-2 with no practice loan payment, one year with the K1 dividend pass-through/LLC or S-corp of +SC whatever structure but with a practice loan payment? Keep in mind this is only 10% of the way into your cateer and you're arguably at a wash financially, with one road with a little more debt usually with a pretty good interest rate and a payment you just consider part of your overhead/can make as low as the tax savings bwteen W2 and K1 if you would like, vs being worked like a dog with no autonomy and a vague promise of cashing out shares at te re-evaluation of the PE group in 3 years?

 

[702]

Take a realistic scenario such as this to think about it:

Would you rather work three years in a row at pPE/DSO/coprorate as a W-2 employee making $500, 600, 750k for an average of $617k per year pre tax with the lack of autonomycontrol, or would you rather make $350, 375k, 1.2 mill for an average of $642 per year pre-tax, two years as a W-2 with no practice loan payment, one year with the K1 dividend pass-through/LLC or S-corp of +SC whatever structure but with a practice loan payment? Keep in mind this is only 10% of the way into your cateer and you're arguably at a wash financially, with one road with a little more debt usually with a pretty good interest rate and a payment you just consider part of your overhead/can make as low as the tax savings bwteen W2 and K1 if you would like, vs being worked like a dog with no autonomy and a vague promise of cashing out shares at te re-evaluation of the PE group in 3 years?

Can't agree more with everything you've said. Wisdom like this only comes from experience. Thank you for sharing.

The caveat though is that some OMFS don't end up becoming partners in the group practice even after paying their dues working 1 or 2 years as associates.

 

[D1Bound]

Private equity runs every field to the ground.

You can make more money in the military. I just cannot believe 250k as a civilian OMS lol

 

[702]

You can make more money in the military. I just cannot believe 250k as a civilian OMS lol

I'd say those are the ones in a saturated city that can't find a full time job

 

[Life of Pablo]

OMFS grads need to stop taking the stupid offers by some OMFS groups. Seriously. It’s just setting a precedent for future grads looking for a job.

OMFS is one of the few specialties that has a limit on the number of grads each year. It’s not like there is an over abundance of graduates every year like there is in general dentistry/other specialties.

 

[White_Sponge_Nevus]

OMFS grads need to stop taking the stupid offers by some OMFS groups. Seriously. It’s just setting a precedent for future grads looking for a job.

OMFS is one of the few specialties that has a limit on the number of grads each year. It’s not like there is an over abundance of graduates every year like there is in general dentistry/other specialties.

The problem is that there are so many grads who refujse to work anywhere outside of their metropolitan area.

I am somewhat guilty of this... not taking the highest true private practice offer I got because I want to move bavck to where I'm from. I'm fortunate that where I'm from isn't as saturated as metro NY, LA, SF, Houston, DMV, DFW areas... but I'm sure as Hell not gonna make what I would in the upper Midwest. There's nothing wrong with the upper Midwest... if I didn't have any friends or family I would definitely entertain moving. The best money is in the places with the smallest selection of restaurants and fewest flight destinations, and that's not a secret.

I used to have no sympathy for people who accepted lower paying jobs to live in a certain geographic area until my priorities changed and I became one. You don't have a lot of people chasing the geographic arbitrage friendly jobs not because those places suck to live, but it's not where the new grads grew up. People in their early 30s have aging parents, nieces and nephews, kids of their own they may need grandparent support for, dental school friends from their in state schools who are out in practice and can refer to them etc

 

[Life of Pablo]

The problem is that there are so many grads who refujse to work anywhere outside of their metropolitan area.

I am somewhat guilty of this... not taking the highest true private practice offer I got because I want to move bavck to where I'm from. I'm fortunate that where I'm from isn't as saturated as metro NY, LA, SF, Houston, DMV, DFW areas... but I'm sure as Hell not gonna make what I would in the upper Midwest. There's nothing wrong with the upper Midwest... if I didn't have any friends or family I would definitely entertain moving. The best money is in the places with the smallest selection of restaurants and fewest flight destinations, and that's not a secret.

I used to have no sympathy for people who accepted lower paying jobs to live in a certain geographic area until my priorities changed and I became one. You don't have a lot of people chasing the geographic arbitrage friendly jobs not because those places suck to live, but it's not where the new grads grew up. People in their early 30s have aging parents, nieces and nephews, kids of their own they may need grandparent support for, dental school friends from their in state schools who are out in practice and can refer to them etc

But why don’t you start your own practice? You can make more than that.

 

[Colastick]

OMFS grads need to stop taking the stupid offers by some OMFS groups. Seriously. It’s just setting a precedent for future grads looking for a job.

OMFS is one of the few specialties that has a limit on the number of grads each year. It’s not like there is an over abundance of graduates every year like there is in general dentistry/other specialties.

biggest competition is not other omfs. it's the GPs who do more and more. but who can blame them? schools are pumping more and more dentists out and they are doing what they have to do to make a living.

 

[yappy]

You can make more money in the military. I just cannot believe 250k as a civilian OMS lol

It can easily happen. I see this kind of stuff all the time. Underperforming DSO offices will recruit dentists and specialists, then assign them a poor schedule with minimal, if any, support staff. By the time they figure out it's a raw deal, they're 6 months into it, and then probably have some bonus they'll owe if they leave before year one. The dentist/specialist sticks it out for the year and then moves on. The whole time the DSO is recruiting for the position, they know it will be vacant soon because it's a horrible job.

 

[omsorbust]

I know an OMFS making a mill + in a urban city mentioned above but he has multiple streams. He has his own traveling gig, owns a GP office, works corp, and now building his own practice. Seems like you can still make a lot in urban areas but have to work harder for it.

 

[White_Sponge_Nevus]

But why don’t you start your own practice? You can make more than that.

I don't know anyone who has a realistic grasp on what it takes to succeed in private practice who thinks they are ready to start their own practice on their first day after graduation. Anyone who thinks they are ready either has a parent who is an OMFS who has spent years preparing them, or doesn't know what they don't know. I need 6 months to a year before being ready to be solo

I will be in a location as the only one at the office when it's open, but have tons of mentorship discussing cases, accounting, overhead, inventory, GP relations, staffing issues, marketing, navigating state licensure regulations, reducing tax burden, list goes on for miles.

Also if you start from scratch, there is a big possibility that given renovation/construction/equipment/staffing delays, you could be in the red for a month or more in the beginning, and your staff/rent need to be paid. I am single and will not/could not survive paying for a month of those expenses as I will not have enough savings to cover that personally and still feed myself and pay for my own living expenses. People who are married to working spouses have a massive safety blanket when it comes to weathering a storm like that, because of active income and higher ability tto save during residency. When I graduate residency, I will have a vehicle that is hopefiullly paid off, my 403b account, the shirt off my back, and probably under 3 months of emergency living expesnes. I'm not willing to risk the initially hit of a practice where I took out a loan too small.