OMFS final year position

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BYU4you

BYU4you

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  1. Resident [Any Field]
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Please send me a secure message if anyone knows of any final year positions PGY4/6 for OMFS residency for myself.
This comes, needless to say, unexpectedly and would prefer privacy regarding specifics surrounding this inquiry except to those to which specifics are needed, and will be freely given.

I sincerely hope my time and presence on this forum and any positive value Ive contributed to the OMFS community over the years will help me and my family find some much needed peace of mind.

Thank you
 
Update us on your progress. I wish you the best in your search. If you exhaust every possible option, maybe approaching Air Force, Navy, and Army OMS leaders to finish the certificate in exchange for service would be viable.
 
Update:
PGY5 (3) Not-Renewed for PGY6 (4) year.
 
Still seeking PGY-6(4) or PGY5(3) positions now or July 2026 start.

Also seeking non-categorical positions with immediate availability. Full commitment to all non-cat/intern level responsibilities and duties as required.
 
As you all know this is an extremely small field where everyone knows pretty much everyone else (or know someone who does).

I’ve never heard of a case where a resident was terminated, especially during their final year, where it wasn’t warranted (all specialties, not just omfs). Your attendings must have had serious concerns over you. Programs do not want to terminate residents if at all possible. They must have lost all hope in you becoming a competent or ethical provider.

That being said your best bet is to stay in your current program. If you haven’t already done so, find an attorney who can get you reinstated. They can try to prove wrongful termination. Believe it or not, you have a good chance of getting yourself back into your program if you act quickly enough. I know of a resident who was in a dual degree program and was fired in her chief year. She got herself back in by filing a lawsuit. Needless to say, the program had legit concerns over her conduct. And she should have stayed fired.

What exactly did you do ?
 
Thank you for the concern and advice on this situation. I will continue to take the best steps necessary, as I have already done, to doing what’s best for my family. As well as for myself in becoming a board certified Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeon. I continue to seek a position at the PGY5/6 level or a non-categorical spot and encourage any interested program the opportunity to speak with me personally and use their judgment in determining whether or not I am a fit for their program. We do not have the same residency swap type system as with other specialties and as you noted this is a small specialty.
 
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upperlower said:
Don't let the re-incarnated Bob Nadeau gaslight you, there are some dog**** people in this specialty.
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Where is all this hate coming from ?

I am trying to provide some help to the OP who was terminated.
Right or wrong, I’m still trying to provide help.

Resident Physician Disciplinary Issues

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OP my advice still remains the same. Your best bet is to get back into the same program that fired and kicked you out.

There are law firms that specialize in this. Good luck.
 
My contract was not renewed. I am seeking to continue my path to board certification. That’s all my focus and intention for this thread is on.

Thank you
 
BYU4you said:
My contract was not renewed. I am seeking to continue my path to board certification. That’s all my focus and intention for this thread is on.

Thank you
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Not renewed is the same as being terminated.
For those who don’t know, omfs residents get their contract renewed every year in order to graduate.

If your program didn’t renew your contract, that means they kicked you out. They don’t want you to finish the program.

In order for you to become board certified you need to first graduate from your program. That means you need to get back into the same program. That is the easiest and most direct way. As mentioned previously you have a good chance and there are firms working in this exact area. There is no shame.
 
OP, I agree that your best chance is getting back in with your program’s good graces. Is there any way to appeal their decision? You mention this came somewhat as a surprise to you. Did your program not make any effort to help you correct/remediate things before you got to this point? If they didn’t, maybe that will give you some leverage for them to reverse their decision. I’d definitely find a good attorney.

To not renew a resident in any field, a program would have to have serious concerns regarding someone’s clinical skills and/or ethics. It’s gonna be a battle to convince another program to give you a chance.

Best of luck, OP.

Big Hoss
 
Big Time Hoosier said:
OP, I agree that your best chance is getting back in with your program’s good graces. Is there any way to appeal their decision? You mention this came somewhat as a surprise to you. Did your program not make any effort to help you correct/remediate things before you got to this point? If they didn’t, maybe that will give you some leverage for them to reverse their decision. I’d definitely find a good attorney.

To not renew a resident in any field, a program would have to have serious concerns regarding someone’s clinical skills and/or ethics. It’s gonna be a battle to convince another program to give you a chance.

Best of luck, OP.

Big Hoss
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Getting kicked out of a program is a serious matter as you said.
Likely the PD and chair would have, at the very least, outlined their concerns to the problematic resident 6 months prior during their review. All residents have reviews with their PD and chair. The resident probably had to sign a paper during their review that acknowledges the meeting and issues. They would have told the resident if he doesn’t address these issues, they will be let him go.
It’s hardly a surprise.

Kicking out a resident is a serious matter. The chair likely would have called a meeting that involved the PD, full time attendings, private attendings and even the chief residents. We will never know what the issues were involving the OP. Probably, however, not a single attending or co resident vouched for the OP. All it takes is one or two attendings to reverse the decision. More than likely the OP was universally disliked or they had serious concerns over his ability to be a competent provider.

I’m not in any way trying to bring someone down. As mentioned in multiple posts previously I actually tried to help by giving a legit solution.

The OP has mentioned many times that he is trying to become board certified and is trying to do what’s best for his family. He should have thought about that years ago before he got into this situation.
 
Residents are fired and picked up by new programs every year and in every specialty. Maybe his program is normal and maybe yours is too but there's still plenty of dog**** in this specialty. Attending satisfaction isn't what it used to be. There's a reason why this board is filled with people looking for transfers. On what planet would an attending call another attending and admit they fired a resident that didn't deserve it. Its way easier just to lie and gaslight the **** out of them. Happening more often BTW according to the colleagues you evidently aren't conversing with. OP needs to do exactly what he's doing and find a new home with the support of his (hopefully) normal program.
 
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upperlower said:
Residents are fired and picked up by new programs every year and in every specialty. Maybe his program is normal and maybe yours is too
Click to expand...

I’m not affiliated with any program. I’m not an attending, never was and never will be lol. My username is meant to be a joke.

As far as his program, i heard it was Loma Linda which is a highly reputable program. The attendings there are phenomenal. They are not malignant.

upperlower said:
On what planet would an attending call another attending and admit they fired a resident that didn't deserve it. Its way easier just to lie and gaslight the **** out of them.
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I don’t think programs will fire a resident if they didn’t deserve it. Ultimately it’s not easy to fire a resident. There has to be good reason for it. Problematic residents can believe what they want to believe, whatever makes them feel better, instead of addressing their true issues.

upperlower said:
but there's still plenty of dog**** in this specialty.
Click to expand...
you sure fit this description given your attitude
I’ll be looking for your transfer thread when you get threatened for termination. LOL. Relax I’m just joking.
 
You literally came on here on a holiday weekend to repeatedly tell this poor guy that he deserved to be fired and that he should sue Loma Linda, which you are now saying has phenomenal attendings and is highly reputable. Sounds like dog**** to me. The people that made this specialty spent their time coming up with **** not hiding behind a keyboard. I'd rather be a gum gardener if it meant I wouldn't have to deal with childish people like you. You won't find me on the transfer thread, maybe at AAOMS brother.
 
OP, if you’re absolutely set on not trying to get back into your program, I’d email every single OMFS PD across the country inquiring. Don’t sugarcoat anything in your email, be very transparent, and see what sticks. In case you didn’t already know, a quick way to find this contact info is through the ADEA Pass Program Search tool. Beyond this, I don’t know what more you could do.

Big Hoss
 
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How common is it for people in six year programs to get their MD and then match into a medical specialty? I know someone who dropped out in PGY-1 but considered it.
 
JacquesVallee said:
How common is it for people in six year programs to get their MD and then match into a medical specialty? I know someone who dropped out in PGY-1 but considered it.
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As a non-OMFS myself, I know an OMFS who did a full plastic surgery residency after oral surgery. I can’t imagine it’s super common. The problem the OP faces is they are being dismissed from their residency. That’s got to be a big red flag to overcome if they tried to cross over to another medical specialty. It’s probably different if someone separated voluntarily on their own accord.

Big Hoss
 
Both scenarios are rare but possible. He could work his way into a non-competitive medical residency.
 
upperlower said:
Both scenarios are rare but possible. He could work his way into a non-competitive medical residency.
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Rather than sink more time and effort into some non-competitive residency, I wonder if it would be better to use that dental degree. My friend dropped out of an OMFS residency because he was burned out from the grind. Now he’s a practicing GP that does a lot of surgical procedures. The silver lining for dental residents who don’t finish a residency is that they can at least be a general dentist. A med school graduate without a residency is a bad spot to be.

Big Hoss
 
malignant_attending said:
Getting kicked out of a program is a serious matter as you said.
Likely the PD and chair would have, at the very least, outlined their concerns to the problematic resident 6 months prior during their review. All residents have reviews with their PD and chair. The resident probably had to sign a paper during their review that acknowledges the meeting and issues. They would have told the resident if he doesn’t address these issues, they will be let him go.
It’s hardly a surprise.

Kicking out a resident is a serious matter. The chair likely would have called a meeting that involved the PD, full time attendings, private attendings and even the chief residents. We will never know what the issues were involving the OP. Probably, however, not a single attending or co resident vouched for the OP. All it takes is one or two attendings to reverse the decision. More than likely the OP was universally disliked or they had serious concerns over his ability to be a competent provider.

I’m not in any way trying to bring someone down. As mentioned in multiple posts previously I actually tried to help by giving a legit solution.

The OP has mentioned many times that he is trying to become board certified and is trying to do what’s best for his family. He should have thought about that years ago before he got into this situation.
Click to expand...
Doesn't take much to fire a resident. Convince the other attendings which is sometimes only 1 subordinate attending. The residents do and like whatever the chairman tells them they are so scared. We don't know the quality of the teaching OP received but it does sound like he's is coming from an excellent program and was given extra time etc. Hopefully he can address what his issues were and get back on his feet.
 
There are a lot of assumptions being thrown around in this thread without much context.

I'm looking for and willing to take any OMFS position essentially, including a non-categorical position on my path to becoming a board certified oral and maxillofacial surgeon. There's no need to be guessing anything, I will be fully transparent with any program interested in getting a dual degree resident who has completed 5 years of OMFS residency and is willing and wanting to complete this starting at any level.
 
BYU4you said:
There are a lot of assumptions being thrown around in this thread without much context.

I'm looking for and willing to take any OMFS position essentially, including a non-categorical position on my path to becoming a board certified oral and maxillofacial surgeon. There's no need to be guessing anything, I will be fully transparent with any program interested in getting a dual degree resident who has completed 5 years of OMFS residency and is willing and wanting to complete this starting at any level.
Click to expand...
You’re right, there are a lot of assumptions being made here. But, that’s because we have virtually no details about your situation, other than your contract is not being renewed.

Is there an attending/faculty member that you trust to help you craft an email you can send out to PDs? It might be time for you to contact all 100+ OMFS programs across the country. You might get more traction that way than with the limited reach of SDN.

Big Hoss
 
Big Time Hoosier said:
You’re right, there are a lot of assumptions being made here. But, that’s because we have virtually no details about your situation, other than your contract is not being renewed.

Is there an attending/faculty member that you trust to help you craft an email you can send out to PDs? It might be time for you to contact all 100+ OMFS programs across the country. You might get more traction that way than with the limited reach of SDN.

Big Hoss
Click to expand...

Rest assured, with two young children and this far into residency; a single post on SDN does not constitute everything I have done and am actively doing.
 
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BYU4you said:
Please send me a secure message if anyone knows of any final year positions PGY4/6 for OMFS residency for myself.
This comes, needless to say, unexpectedly and would prefer privacy regarding specifics surrounding this inquiry except to those to which specifics are needed, and will be freely given.

I sincerely hope my time and presence on this forum and any positive value Ive contributed to the OMFS community over the years will help me and my family find some much needed peace of mind.

Thank you
Click to expand...
Wishing you the very best during what I’m sure is an incredibly stressful time. You’ve always contributed real value here, and I hope the community can give that support back to you now. I don’t have direct leads at the moment, but I’ll keep an ear out and pass along anything I hear. Hoping you and your family find the stability and opportunity you’re looking for soon.
 
BYU4you said:
Rest assured, with two young children and this far into residency; a single post on SDN does not constitute everything I have done and am actively doing.
Click to expand...
**** happens my brotha - you have been through 5 years already it seems so you already have the tough skin. Hope you find success soon, it Wille eventually come.
 
@BYU4you I remember reading your reading strategy for the DAT as a predent years ago. Really pulling for you, brother.
 
By way of an update. As mentioned here before, convincing a program to let me in is a hurdle. The bigger hurdle is finding any openings whatsoever. The medical side of things have multiple ways of knowing when a spot is open, or even applying to a advanced PGY spot through their application service.

Rather than sending an outright email with my story and plea, I first wanted to find out if any spots are available whatsoever. I’m not hell bent on getting a chief spot, at this point I would simply like to finish. Getting/renewing a medical license will require two years minimum anyways, and that’s not counting another year for another cycle. So at 3 years out, I would take any spot at any program essentially since it’s not really prolonging any more than the shortest medical residency.

So I’ve emailed every program simply asking if they have any spots at any level either immediately or anticipated in the next cycle.

For simplicity and rounding to 100.

So far I have about 20 No’s and about 80 No Replies whatsoever.

Only a few broken emails or wrong emails, and those were looked up and resent to the proper place.
Any “known” spot to be open has essentially led to a no reply either or that they are not filling any positions or some similar wording.
 
Since I’ve had quite a few people asking me for an update, I’ll drop one now since I finally have something somewhat tangible to report.

In reference to my other post on vacancies, that has been entirely unchanged either with respect to not knowing of any new openings or updates to the ones already listed. Additionally, there are no changes to me finding a position in any program at any PGY level whatsoever, including the unfilled PGY1 spots. This is in addition to unsuccessfully obtaining a position within medical residency as well; through the Match, SOAP and applying to new or unfilled positions outside the cycle. This is unfortunate as I’ve faced further various obstacles in working using my training to tackle my loans eclipsing $900k, having just found, thanks to suggestions of people on here, some through the Reserve Health Readiness Program (RHRP) for military service personnel which helped overcome some of those obstacles.
Ironically, these hurdles and obstacles Ive encountered have really left little room for choices and instead, just taking the one path I have forward.

With my medical residency applications not comprehensively finalized until the deadline, I had realized that many public health/residency applications require a Masters of Public Health (MPH) as part of residency and needed a second application through their schools of public health as well using another application service. Sometimes not using the standard medical residency once at all. So I had applied to those hoping to have a different approach to applications. Months later after having limited success on all fronts, I began receiving acceptance letters into these MPH Programs. After discussing with multiple surgical mentors, they each independently agreed that this was a great option to improve my application to residency going forward and encouraged me to do so. With enough flexibility to take advantage of opportunities as they come, that’s where I’m at now with some work to keep my hand skills up and earn something while searching for more sustainable options and improving my resume and applications through the UCLA Health Policy and Management MPH.
 
BYU4you said:
Since I’ve had quite a few people asking me for an update, I’ll drop one now since I finally have something somewhat tangible to report.

In reference to my other post on vacancies, that has been entirely unchanged either with respect to not knowing of any new openings or updates to the ones already listed. Additionally, there are no changes to me finding a position in any program at any PGY level whatsoever, including the unfilled PGY1 spots. This is in addition to unsuccessfully obtaining a position within medical residency as well; through the Match, SOAP and applying to new or unfilled positions outside the cycle. This is unfortunate as I’ve faced further various obstacles in working using my training to tackle my loans eclipsing $900k, having just found, thanks to suggestions of people on here, some through the Reserve Health Readiness Program (RHRP) for military service personnel which helped overcome some of those obstacles.
Ironically, these hurdles and obstacles Ive encountered have really left little room for choices and instead, just taking the one path I have forward.

With my medical residency applications not comprehensively finalized until the deadline, I had realized that many public health/residency applications require a Masters of Public Health (MPH) as part of residency and needed a second application through their schools of public health as well using another application service. Sometimes not using the standard medical residency once at all. So I had applied to those hoping to have a different approach to applications. Months later after having limited success on all fronts, I began receiving acceptance letters into these MPH Programs. After discussing with multiple surgical mentors, they each independently agreed that this was a great option to improve my application to residency going forward and encouraged me to do so. With enough flexibility to take advantage of opportunities as they come, that’s where I’m at now with some work to keep my hand skills up and earn something while searching for more sustainable options and improving my resume and applications through the UCLA Health Policy and Management MPH.
Click to expand...
How is an MPH going to improve your changes of getting accepted into a residency program?
 
702 said:
How is an MPH going to improve your changes of getting accepted into a residency program?
Click to expand...

My barriers to get into an OMS program are entirely separate than those for medical residencies.

D1Bound said:
Why not also do some general dentistry to make money?
Click to expand...

I am doing general dentistry to make money.
 
900k.. gosh they really got you. What the heck did you do..take a day off to care for a loved one or something?
 
upperlower said:
900k.. gosh they really got you. What the heck did you do..take a day off to care for a loved one or something?
Click to expand...

I owe that 900k to my student loan servicer.
 
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Big Time Hoosier said:
How much is an MPH going to cost you? You’re in such a big financial hole, I’d stop digging if I were you…

Big Hoss
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The maximum amount it could cost for this specific program is readily available to view if someone is that curious enough to go searching. The minimum it could cost me is zero.
 
Wishing you the best. I hope it all works out and you can get back into OMFS or another residency.

I remember using your reading strategy for the DAT.
 
Colastick said:
Can you go for PSLF? Believe all the residency years count
Click to expand...
I never refinanced so I assume it’s on the table still. As far as I
understand after July 1, 2026 any future residency/fellowship payments would still qualify if the employer is qualified based on the new guidelines.
 
BYU4you said:
I never refinanced so I assume it’s on the table still. As far as I
understand after July 1, 2026 any future residency/fellowship payments would still qualify if the employer is qualified based on the new guidelines.
Click to expand...
That may be the most financially reasonable route for you especially if you are thinking of another residency. 900k is way too much even for omfs to pay off. If you are working as a GD right now, it may be worth it for you to be working at PSLF qualified employer while you are in transition period. Just my two cents. Best of luck
 
Big Time Hoosier said:
www.studentloanplanner.com

Biggest Mistakes Doctors Make With Their Student Loans and PSLF In Residency

Choosing the right residency program, repayment plan, and consolidation strategy is key for physicians with large medical school loans.
www.studentloanplanner.com www.studentloanplanner.com

I’m not in anyway endorsing the Student Loan Planner, but it might be good, OP, to meet with a financial advisor on this.

Big Hoss
Click to expand...

I’d feel a lot better if you removed the link entirely and kept only the part about meeting with a financial advisor, lest some poor OMS resident blindly click on it and make the detrimental mistake of consolidating their loans.
 
BYU4you said:
I’d feel a lot better if you removed the link entirely and kept only the part about meeting with a financial advisor, lest some poor OMS resident blindly click on it and make the detrimental mistake of consolidating their loans.
Click to expand...
The author mentions consolidating loans only to point out they potentially need to be consolidated under a plan that qualifies for PSLF. Not all loans will qualify for PSLF.

Big Hoss
 
Big Time Hoosier said:
The author mentions consolidating loans only to point out they potentially need to be consolidated under a plan that qualifies for PSLF. Not all loans will qualify for PSLF.

Big Hoss
Click to expand...

Sure but they recklessly fail to mention any consequences and if the *very few* reasons for consolidating are even worth it. For OMS this could mean losing months of payment made on dental school loans being lost to add med school ones on unnecessarily. Or taking 20+ accounts opened years ago that you have individual control over and suddenly combining them into 1 massive new loan and obliterating your length of credit history. A massive setback for someone in their 30s when their oldest account may suddenly change from 9 years to ~0.
 
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