OMFS interest. Am I out of luck?

[Humbl3Pye]

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Hey all,

So here’s a bit about me and my background. I’ve always had an interest in OMFS. My experience with OMFS was what actually drew me to dentistry in the first place (had facial trauma, surgery etc.) and what encouraged me to apply for DS (my mentor while applying was an OMFS who I worked for). I ruled it out in the past mainly due to the fact that I felt I might not be as smart or as capable as some of the others I saw in OMFS.

In any case, graduated dental school (roughly top 3rd of my class), class leadership, OMFS research, lots of great clinical experience (extracted a few full bonys in DS, around 250 extractions, spent a month externship shadowing OS and placing implants with perio). I decided to do a GPR because I thought it would allow me to expand my surgical scope as a GP (I felt formal surgical experience was necessary). Unfortunately I’m in the beginning stages of my program with little to no surgical opportunities. Partly due to COVID, partly due to crappy scheduling/timing etc., but I’m seeing a trend where I don’t think I’m going to get the experience I need. I love being in the hospital, learning about sedation, surgery etc, it’s made me think.

Here’s my main question: Am I no longer a good candidate for OMFS? My concern is that even if I studied for the CBSE and got a decent score, is the fact that I’ve done a GPR a black mark on my record? From a lot of my reading and discussions it seems like programs really frown on GPR residents as OMFS would like to see a non-cat instead.

Would definitely appreciate any insight.

Thanks in advance.

 

[periopocket]

Why so cut and dry? Why out of luck? Top 3rd of class and well rounded. A residency on top should help. But what will help the most is crushing the CBSE. If you have a 70+ you should be cruisin.

 

[e00z]

Lots of OMFS residents have done a GPR first. You have a great shot as long as you do well on the CBSE.

 

[OMaxFace]

Here’s my main question: Am I no longer a good candidate for OMFS? My concern is that even if I studied for the CBSE and got a decent score, is the fact that I’ve done a GPR a black mark on my record? From a lot of my reading and discussions it seems like programs really frown on GPR residents as OMFS would like to see a non-cat instead.

You're doing just fine. Take the CBSE, do some externships. If you want OMFS, you'll get there. If that means non-cat year, so be a it. A GPR is not a "black mark". Just be ready to explain why you decided to do it and what you learned from it during interviews.

The only advice I would give is that try to get a better handle on the vigor of OMFS residency prior to investing into it. An externship can help with that to a degree. Being in the hospital as a GPR and being in the hospital as OMFS are two very different things. The dentoalveolar side of OMFS is just one side of the broad scope of the specialty.

Good luck.

 

[SilkyJ]

It’s not that a GPR is a “black mark” on your record, it’s just that programs don’t tend to care about GPR experience all that much since it’s very different from a formal surgical training. A lot of dental students pursue a GPR thinking it will make them more competitive as an applicant, but a lot of OMFS programs see it as a wash (neither good nor bad). You’re slightly faster than a new dental grad, but you‘ll have some “GPR habits” to unlearn.

Bottom line: A GPR isn’t going to improve your application at most programs, but it certainly isn’t a “black mark” on your record

 

[dentistrydmd]

If anything an intern (non-categorical) year would be very valuable, especially if you are interested in the program in which you complete the intern year.

 

[DocMon16]

I don't think you're out of it at all, you're only out of it when you say you are. You are in a good spot! Study hard for the CBSE.

 

[nade0016]

You're doing just fine. Take the CBSE, do some externships. If you want OMFS, you'll get there. If that means non-cat year, so be a it. A GPR is not a "black mark". Just be ready to explain why you decided to do it and what you learned from it during interviews.

The only advice I would give is that try to get a better handle on the vigor of OMFS residency prior to investing into it. An externship can help with that to a degree. Being in the hospital as a GPR and being in the hospital as OMFS are two very different things. The dentoalveolar side of OMFS is just one side of the broad scope of the specialty.

Good luck.

Well said!

 

[FQ11]

I have an inquiry guys. I am a foreign trained dentist that has a scholarship from my government to pursue an OMFS degree. I graduated top 15% of my class and had 4 months rotation of OMFS in a tertiary care/ level 1 trauma center + i am doing a 6 months advanced training in OMFS after my inter year. Nevertheless i have 12 Research Publications in the scope of OMFS and 3 Academic honor degree ( dean’s list/ top intern award in OMFS rotation. Etc) ATLS- ACLS- BLS courses and was a presenter in 10 different conferences with 3 leadership roles during intern year and undergrad studies. I still need to take the CBSE. Do i have a chance as i am an international student or is it difficult? If it is then there is no need for me to take cbse

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

Hey all,

So here’s a bit about me and my background. I’ve always had an interest in OMFS. My experience with OMFS was what actually drew me to dentistry in the first place (had facial trauma, surgery etc.) and what encouraged me to apply for DS (my mentor while applying was an OMFS who I worked for). I ruled it out in the past mainly due to the fact that I felt I might not be as smart or as capable as some of the others I saw in OMFS.

In any case, graduated dental school (roughly top 3rd of my class), class leadership, OMFS research, lots of great clinical experience (extracted a few full bonys in DS, around 250 extractions, spent a month externship shadowing OS and placing implants with perio). I decided to do a GPR because I thought it would allow me to expand my surgical scope as a GP (I felt formal surgical experience was necessary). Unfortunately I’m in the beginning stages of my program with little to no surgical opportunities. Partly due to COVID, partly due to crappy scheduling/timing etc., but I’m seeing a trend where I don’t think I’m going to get the experience I need. I love being in the hospital, learning about sedation, surgery etc, it’s made me think.

Here’s my main question: Am I no longer a good candidate for OMFS? My concern is that even if I studied for the CBSE and got a decent score, is the fact that I’ve done a GPR a black mark on my record? From a lot of my reading and discussions it seems like programs really frown on GPR residents as OMFS would like to see a non-cat instead.

Would definitely appreciate any insight.

Thanks in advance.

Absolutely not. You’re in good shape. Just be prepared to answer why you chose GPR over non categorical which it sounds like you have a reasonable explanation for. I personally know several people who matched into programs from a GPR, although they had a strong CBSE as well (Parkland and MGH). Stay the course you’ll be fine.

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

I have an inquiry guys. I am a foreign trained dentist that has a scholarship from my government to pursue an OMFS degree. I graduated top 15% of my class and had 4 months rotation of OMFS in a tertiary care/ level 1 trauma center + i am doing a 6 months advanced training in OMFS after my inter year. Nevertheless i have 12 Research Publications in the scope of OMFS and 3 Academic honor degree ( dean’s list/ top intern award in OMFS rotation. Etc) ATLS- ACLS- BLS courses and was a presenter in 10 different conferences with 3 leadership roles during intern year and undergrad studies. I still need to take the CBSE. Do i have a chance as i am an international student or is it difficult? If it is then there is no need for me to take cbse

You have strong credentials but it’s difficult to match into a 6 year program from an international program due to med school policies/visa issues. I think you will be eligible for plenty of 4 year programs if I’m not mistaken. Good luck

 

[FatBlades]

You have strong credentials but it’s difficult to match into a 6 year program from an international program due to med school policies/visa issues. I think you will be eligible for plenty of 4 year programs if I’m not mistaken. Good luck

Definitely not PLENTY without a US dental degree. BUT, there are 4-year spots that are specifically in place for sponsored scholarships like this in the US and Canada. From the top of my head I know UofT, Mcgill and Texas A&M** (sorry, not Vanderbilt). There may be more of course. Some need CBSE and some don't.

I hope this helps.

 

[FQ11]

Thank U all for your responses. Regarding visa issues i am a citizen from the Gulf countries we usually do not have problems with visas in North America. For me it doesn’t really matter which university i get matched to, as long that its a 4 yr OMFS program. My personal preference though is Jackson Memorial Hospital/ Miami or McGill University/ Canada. Btw what is the minimum CBSE result that i should score to get an interview at a 4 year program in US/ Canada?

 

[dentistrydmd]

Thank U all for your responses. Regarding visa issues i am a citizen from the Gulf countries we usually do not have problems with visas in North America. For me it doesn’t really matter which university i get matched to, as long that its a 4 yr OMFS program. My personal preference though is Jackson Memorial Hospital/ Miami or McGill University/ Canada. Btw what is the minimum CBSE result that i should score to get an interview at a 4 year program in US/ Canada?

You can do an intern year at mcgill if you can’t get into the program straight away but it sounds like you’re competitive. Mcgill has a separate omfs stream for internationals on sponsored scholarships and they take one person per year (which is why doing an intern year will help you immensely if you can get in the first shot). Most of those candidates are from gulf countries.

 

[FQ11]

Chances are very very slim. I would shoot for a 75/80+ and hope you get a couple interviews still with no guarantee. Only 2 internationals matched last year. I’m sure they had to do intern years as well. Even saw an oral surgeon from his home country finishing a PhD here in the states and he only had one interview. Never say never. If you really want this, be willing to put in 2-3 intern years and matching in any program you get in.

You can do an intern year at mcgill if you can’t get into the program straight away but it sounds like you’re competitive. Mcgill has a separate omfs stream for internationals on sponsored scholarships and they take one person per year (which is why doing an intern year will help you immensely if you can get in the first shot). Most of those candidates are from gulf countries.

Chances are very very slim. I would shoot for a 75/80+ and hope you get a couple interviews still with no guarantee. Only 2 internationals matched last year. I’m sure they had to do intern years as well. Even saw an oral surgeon from his home country finishing a PhD here in the states and he only had one interview. Never say never. If you really want this, be willing to put in 2-3 intern years and matching in any program you get in.

This is seriously discouraging. It seems like i have a very long road. Thank u dr

 

[FQ11]

You can do an intern year at mcgill if you can’t get into the program straight away but it sounds like you’re competitive. Mcgill has a separate omfs stream for internationals on sponsored scholarships and they take one person per year (which is why doing an intern year will help you immensely if you can get in the first shot). Most of those candidates are from gulf countries.

Thank You for this information. I am 24 years old though. I hope i can get in without an intern year to graduate before my 30s. Long road ahead

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

This is seriously discouraging. It seems like i have a very long road. Thank u dr

Thank You for this information. I am 24 years old though. I hope i can get in without an intern year to graduate before my 30s. Long road ahead

Sir, you would be best served reaching out to individual programs of interest and asking them directly. Most of us here are trainees (either residents or dental students). The person who’s making you feel that way is a dental student who’s applying currently. None of us have the experience or qualifications to be definitively saying what your process will entail as an international student. So ask a program director like @nade0016 for example. Don’t ask dental students or other young trainees. You’ll be fine don’t be discouraged.

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

"You'll be fine, don't be discouraged" perhaps should also be left up to the PD's. I don't think it's fair to give someone false hope. It is no secret: this is a major uphill battle. I don't mean this response as a slight to you, and I hope it does not come off that way. Just known many, including PD's who have expressed how hard this process can be.

You really shouldn’t argue so much. I hope you don’t act this way with your seniors/chiefs. Good luck with the match and finishing your dental school reqs.

 

[C.elegans]

@bergus95 While I see where you are coming from (you bring up some fair points), I think it will be in your favor to refrain from directly contradicting the input of someone who is further along the process than you are. I assume that you probably do not mean disrespect but it can sometimes come off in a way that you hadn't intended. I am also personally learning to keep my mouth shut at times as I become more and more cognizant of my own cluelessness during residency so take this as advice from someone who has made similar mistakes in the past 😀 Good luck with the match

 

[yappy]

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You really shouldn’t argue so much. I hope you don’t act this way with your seniors/chiefs. Good luck with the match and finishing your dental school reqs.

It's better to be "wrong and strong" than weak. It will be up to his seniors to break his will and make him fall in line.

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

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It's better to be "wrong and strong" than weak. It will be up to his seniors to break his will and make him fall in line.

True his seniors will their hands full that’s for sure. There are always a few know-it-alls who learn in July

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

Bizarre, you're a first year resident bro... chill out

acting like you've been a PD for a decade over here

also, in the likelihood that I match to a 4 year, I would be graduating a year ahead of you

Didn’t say anything contrary to my position. You just don’t listen at all. Congratulations on your early OMFS graduation.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Reminder to all to keep things professional here. Refrain from personal attacks.