OMFS length of training worth scope of practice?

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fug

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I originally posted this thread on the "Dental" board, but I figured I might get more knowledgeable responses here.

I just started dental school, and already I've started thinking about the possibility of specializing in OMFS.

From my understanding, the bulk of OMFS private practice work comes from "shucking thirds."

What would the profession look like if people didn't need their wisdom teeth removed anymore? What other procedures do oral surgeons perform on a regular enough basis to justify 4-6 extra years of training?

I know it's an ignorant question on my part, and I'm not trying to bash OMFS. Also, I know that there are vastly more complicated procedures than wisdom tooth extractions that oral surgeons do perform, so please don't list them all for me. My question is not, "what else are oral surgeons capable of doing?" but "what else would oral surgeons in private practice do to justify 4-6 years of extra training, if everything about the current patient pool remained constant except for the need for wisdom teeth to be removed."

Thanks!
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I'd guess most people reading this board also read your post on the dental board. There are quite a few private practice OMS who do TMJ, orthognathic, benign tumor, trauma, implant, and bone grafting. There are also a lot who don't do any work in the OR. The bottom line is there is plenty of work for those who want to go to the OR. The only question is: Are you will to take the reduction in income? If all you want to do is take out teeth and do implants you could do a good GPR program (like the VA) and get a lot of experience in these and probably an IV sedation permit as well. Of course you'd likely be doing general dentistry too. I doubt if any GP would refer to you unless there was nobody else around to do the job. If you want to be a surgeon, do OMS.
 
drhobie7 said:
I'd guess most people reading this board also read your post on the dental board. There are quite a few private practice OMS who do TMJ, orthognathic, benign tumor, trauma, implant, and bone grafting. There are also a lot who don't do any work in the OR. The bottom line is there is plenty of work for those who want to go to the OR. The only question is: Are you will to take the reduction in income? If all you want to do is take out teeth and do implants you could do a good GPR program (like the VA) and get a lot of experience in these and probably an IV sedation permit as well. Of course you'd likely be doing general dentistry too. I doubt if any GP would refer to you unless there was nobody else around to do the job. If you want to be a surgeon, do OMS.
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I agree. Limiting your scope is a matter of choice rather than lack of opportunity. There is lots of work out there for the full scope of OMS. There are quite a few reasons that OMS's decide to stay out of a hospital:
1.) Reimbursment sucks and will only get worse unless we get a republican in office to repeal ObamaCare
2.) Hospitals are political and run by MD's. By law, as a single-degree surgeon you have OR priviledges, however, some have run in to issues with individual hospitals. There are lots of other political issues and eventually people get fed up and prefer to do their own thing in their Private Practice.
3.) OR priviledges at hospitals often come with being required to take call which most don't want to do
4.) Eventually it just becomes a job that serves the sole purpose of making money. People want the path of least resistance to that end
 
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A brief follow up: in my area single degree OMS operate more than dual degree. Also the call requirement for privileges is generally not bad and depends on the hospital where you sign up. To keep it in perspective, a double jaw still reimburses better than a CABG. I find that crazy.
 
Can an omfs without the MD work in a hospital?
 
mr24 said:
Can an omfs without the MD work in a hospital?
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Single-degree OMS's have full hospital/OR priviledges. Some hopsitals/administrators are either ignorant or like to play games and occasionaly single-degree guys run in to issues. It's more of an issue of educating hospitals and the public of our training and our scope.

Pediatric dentist have OR priviledges as well, however, from my understanding they must have an MD co-sign. Same thing with GPR's. This is not the case with OMS.

Periodontist do not have OR priviledges in any regard as they are not any more of a surgeon than a GP or endodontist is (or any other specialty for that matter) nor do they recieve specific training to deal with subpopulations of patients with complex medical/pt management issues such as Pediatric Dentist, GPR trained GP's, or OMS's. GP's, Endo's, Perio's, etc. all perform "surgery" which is minimally invasive in nature. OMS is the only specialty trained in invasive (open) surgery.
 
Aleman said:
Single-degree OMS's have full hospital/OR priviledges. Some hopsitals/administrators are either ignorant or like to play games and occasionaly single-degree guys run in to issues. It's more of an issue of educating hospitals and the public of our training and our scope.

Pediatric dentist have OR priviledges as well, however, from my understanding they must have an MD co-sign. Same thing with GPR's. This is not the case with OMS.

Periodontist do not have OR priviledges in any regard as they are not any more of a surgeon than a GP or endodontist is (or any other specialty for that matter) nor do they recieve specific training to deal with subpopulations of patients with complex medical/pt management issues such as Pediatric Dentist, GPR trained GP's, or OMS's. GP's, Endo's, Perio's, etc. all perform "surgery" which is minimally invasive in nature. OMS is the only specialty trained in invasive (open) surgery.
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thanks
 
Aleman said:
Single-degree OMS's have full hospital/OR priviledges. Some hopsitals/administrators are either ignorant or like to play games and occasionaly single-degree guys run in to issues. It's more of an issue of educating hospitals and the public of our training and our scope.

Pediatric dentist have OR priviledges as well, however, from my understanding they must have an MD co-sign. Same thing with GPR's. This is not the case with OMS.

Periodontist do not have OR priviledges in any regard as they are not any more of a surgeon than a GP or endodontist is (or any other specialty for that matter) nor do they recieve specific training to deal with subpopulations of patients with complex medical/pt management issues such as Pediatric Dentist, GPR trained GP's, or OMS's. GP's, Endo's, Perio's, etc. all perform "surgery" which is minimally invasive in nature. OMS is the only specialty trained in invasive (open) surgery.
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GPs can have OR priviledges as well...some gps where im from see 3-4 pts a week under general
 
Aleman said:
Single-degree OMS's have full hospital/OR priviledges. Some hopsitals/administrators are either ignorant or like to play games and occasionaly single-degree guys run in to issues. It's more of an issue of educating hospitals and the public of our training and our scope.

Pediatric dentist have OR priviledges as well, however, from my understanding they must have an MD co-sign. Same thing with GPR's. This is not the case with OMS.

Periodontist do not have OR priviledges in any regard as they are not any more of a surgeon than a GP or endodontist is (or any other specialty for that matter) nor do they recieve specific training to deal with subpopulations of patients with complex medical/pt management issues such as Pediatric Dentist, GPR trained GP's, or OMS's. GP's, Endo's, Perio's, etc. all perform "surgery" which is minimally invasive in nature. OMS is the only specialty trained in invasive (open) surgery.
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Completely false statement. Not going to get into the perio/omfs beef but don't listen to this dental student. All three of the periodontists I shadowed in northwest Indiana/Chicago all have multiple OR priviledges at multiple hospitals. Granted two of them graduated from VA programs and the other from UT San Antonio. Furthermore, your statement on "nor do they recieve specific training to deal with subpopulations of patients with complex medical/pt management issues" is simply untrue. I guess you have no idea how complicated VA patients are, seeing an ASA II pt is your lucky day. I guess sinus lifts are not invasive surgeries either...I'm not saying at all that OMFS are not trained in invasive surgeries but they are hardly the ONLY specialty.
 
I would not consider a sinus lift an invasive surgery. It is most often done in the dental office under local anesthesia. There are many GPs doing them.

My experience is a non-OMS dentist will need an MD to do their admissions or co-sign preop docs. At UCLA, the residents occasionally have to cosign docs for a GP who does cases on developmentally disabled patients in the surgery center.

None of this really has any consequence or importance. I'm not a fan of the pissing matches between various specialties. I admire practitioners who learn their specific field very well and provide the best service the patient can receive. Me doing a sagittal osteotomy perfectly is no better than a prosthodontist doing an oustanding gold onlay or denture. It's about doing what you're trained to do as best as can be done. That's what impresses me the most.
 
DavesNotHere said:
Absolutely not
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I highly doubt this is true. To perform procedures in the OR the patient must have a completed H&P, which must be completed by a Doctor that has privileges to admit pt's. To obtain said privileges, one must have completed a History and Physical diagnosis course, from an accredited medical institution. This is a requirement for program accreditation in OMS.

It's true that GD's, periodontists and others can/do perform procedures in the operating room, however, they must have another Doctor with admission privileges perform/co-sign the H&P. It's been my experience that the GD's have an OMS perform the H&P. I can't speak from experience with the periodontic plastic surgeons.
 
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DavesNotHere said:
GPs can have OR priviledges as well...some gps where im from see 3-4 pts a week under general
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Having OR privileges and H&P (admission) privileges are two totally distinct and separate entities. I commend the GP's in your area for seeking out these opportunities, however, very very very unlikely that they can perform their own history and physical exams.
 
dcshus said:
I highly doubt this is true. To perform procedures in the OR the patient must have a completed H&P, which must be completed by a Doctor that has privileges to admit pt's. To obtain said privileges, one must have completed a History and Physical diagnosis course, from an accredited medical institution. This is a requirement for program accreditation in OMS.

It's true that GD's, periodontists and others can/do perform procedures in the operating room, however, they must have another Doctor with admission privileges perform/co-sign the H&P. It's been my experience that the GD's have an OMS perform the H&P. I can't speak from experience with the periodontic plastic surgeons.
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The h and p must be performed by a physician this is true. But the oncologists require paper work from the dds before they can begin treatment, i never saw that as needing a cosigner

Cosigning is not the same thing as a medical clearance for surgery. General surgeons require an h and p from the patients physician as well.
 
DavesNotHere said:
The h and p must be performed by a physician this is true. But the oncologists require paper work from the dds before they can begin treatment, i never saw that as needing a cosigner

Cosigning is not the same thing as a medical clearance for surgery. General surgeons require an h and p from the patients physician as well.
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That's not entirely accurate. The surgeon must perform an H&P prior to surgery (if he/she does not have privileges, then he/she requires a doctor with privileges to perform an H&P for them. In the case of a GD, pedodontist, etc. who doesn't have these privileges, the primary care physician may perform the H&P, as long as said PCP has admission privileges at the hospital)

True. Co-signing (not an accurate term because it is the Doctor with admission privileges that should be performing the H&P) is not the same as medical clearance. In the scenario you gave (we'll assume ambulatory surgery): the general surgeon could ask for medical clearance from the primary care physician (the PCP does not perform the H&P, he/she performs the medical clearance if required. It's not even necessary that the PCP has privileges at the hospital where surgery is being performed)

As for the oncologist/DDS scenario you mentioned, I don't even know what your talking referring to.

It's all very confusing. I'm assuming from your participation in these types of forums (or fora if you prefer) you're interested in a hospital based residency. It will all make much more sense when start. Good luck.
 
dcshus said:
That's not entirely accurate. The surgeon must perform an H&P prior to surgery (if he/she does not have privileges, then he/she requires a doctor with privileges to perform an H&P for them. In the case of a GD, pedodontist, etc. who doesn't have these privileges, the primary care physician may perform the H&P, as long as said PCP has admission privileges at the hospital)

True. Co-signing (not an accurate term because it is the Doctor with admission privileges that should be performing the H&P) is not the same as medical clearance. In the scenario you gave (we'll assume ambulatory surgery): the general surgeon could ask for medical clearance from the primary care physician (the PCP does not perform the H&P, he/she performs the medical clearance if required. It's not even necessary that the PCP has privileges at the hospital where surgery is being performed)

As for the oncologist/DDS scenario you mentioned, I don't even know what your talking referring to.

It's all very confusing. I'm assuming from your participation in these types of forums (or fora if you prefer) you're interested in a hospital based residency. It will all make much more sense when start. Good luck.
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Yeah im not sure wut question your answering.

The poster asked me if a co-sign was needed following a dental provedure under ga and that is not the case.

You dont need a co sign from an md, why would they sign off on a dental rehab?
 
DavesNotHere said:
Yeah im not sure wut question your answering.

The poster asked me if a co-sign was needed following a dental provedure under ga and that is not the case.
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The poster was making a statement (which happened to be correct) it wasn't a question to you.

DavesNotHere said:
You dont need a co sign from an md, why would they sign off on a dental rehab?
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Again, you are wrong with the above statement. The GD in question WOULD need a co-sign from an MD (or single degree OMS with admitting privileges at the hospital). MD would be signing the H&P NOT the dental Tx plan, so it wouldn't matter what procedures the GD was doing in the OR. I've already explained part of what is required for admitting privileges.

I guess if you end up doing a hospital based residency you'll discover hospital protocol then.
 
I'm a little tired of your blanket statements and know-it-all attitude

1.
Aleman said:
Do you happen to know if they need an MD to co-sign? Just curious.
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This was the post I was responding to. If this looks like a "statement" to you then I question your knowledge of english grammar and mechanics. This is a question, what gives it away is that symbol the riddler wears on his hat called a question mark.

2.
I have no idea what the policies are at your hospital or where ever your from, at my hospital, where I am a resident currently our procedures do NOT NEED AN MD To Co-sign.

My DDS attendings can admit someone to the hospital, they can plan a procedure, they can perform a procedure.

2 days ago I wired a mandibular fracture under general, there was never an MD involved at any point (unless you count the anesthesiologist). No H and P was signed for the urgent procedure.

An H and P must be performed by their regular physician for planned surgeries, this is not a Co-sign for a procedure. I'm really surprised you don't understand this.

I don't care how things are at your hospital, I do this everyday and these are our procedures. So stop acting like you know everything.

😍
 
It's a slap in the face of your physician colleagues if you casually act like admitting and hospital management is within the scope of most dentists.

I bet there are a handful of GPR or military trained dentists in the country that have special privileges to do H&Ps. However, doesn't your patient deserve a quick looksie by a physician before they end up in the OR? Just because your boss/faculty does it, doesn't mean you are trained by proxy to do it.

When you get out, set yourself up with a hospitalist. It's the right thing to do for your patient. All kinds of community surgeons use hospitalists.
 
it was an urgent situation on a patient that presented to the ED

For all planned procedures there is an H and P signed by their physician

I completely agree that an H and P is not within the scope of a dentist's care
 
DavesNotHere said:
I'm a little tired of your blanket statements and know-it-all attitude

1.


This was the post I was responding to. If this looks like a "statement" to you then I question your knowledge of english grammar and mechanics. This is a question, what gives it away is that symbol the riddler wears on his hat called a question mark.

2.
I have no idea what the policies are at your hospital or where ever your from, at my hospital, where I am a resident currently our procedures do NOT NEED AN MD To Co-sign.

My DDS attendings can admit someone to the hospital, they can plan a procedure, they can perform a procedure.

2 days ago I wired a mandibular fracture under general, there was never an MD involved at any point (unless you count the anesthesiologist). No H and P was signed for the urgent procedure.

An H and P must be performed by their regular physician for planned surgeries, this is not a Co-sign for a procedure. I'm really surprised you don't understand this.

I don't care how things are at your hospital, I do this everyday and these are our procedures. So stop acting like you know everything.

😍
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By your defensive responses, it's apparent you know less on the subject than your projecting. I was attempting to be respectful in my previous posts. There is a reason why it is mandatory that OMS residents take a medical H&P course to admit patients...it is required to admit patients.

This is a case of you just don't know, what you don't know.

What hospital are you at? I can easily look at your attending's privileges, you're so confident you're right, that shouldn't be a problem. If you're correct, I'll gladly admit I'm in the wrong. Or even if you tell me what state your in I can look up state policy.

Congratulations on wiring down a mandible under general anesthesia. Who was your attending on the case? A general dentist? A general dentist who is credentialed for Tx of facial fx's? Sounds fishy...or was it possibly an OMS who also has privileges for admission/performing H&P's?

Good luck getting into dental anesthesia. Anesthesia's a fun field.
 
fug said:
I originally posted this thread on the "Dental" board, but I figured I might get more knowledgeable responses here.

I just started dental school, and already I've started thinking about the possibility of specializing in OMFS.

From my understanding, the bulk of OMFS private practice work comes from "shucking thirds."

What would the profession look like if people didn't need their wisdom teeth removed anymore? What other procedures do oral surgeons perform on a regular enough basis to justify 4-6 extra years of training?

I know it's an ignorant question on my part, and I'm not trying to bash OMFS. Also, I know that there are vastly more complicated procedures than wisdom tooth extractions that oral surgeons do perform, so please don't list them all for me. My question is not, "what else are oral surgeons capable of doing?" but "what else would oral surgeons in private practice do to justify 4-6 years of extra training, if everything about the current patient pool remained constant except for the need for wisdom teeth to be removed."

Thanks!
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To answer your question, Yes. I think its definitely worth the extra 4-6 years of training to become an oral surgeon. Oral sugery is way more than just extracting 3rds. As you know, they perform a multitude of procedures. The more routine and profitable ones include implants, sedation, pathology, and pre-prosth surgery. The 4-6 years of training isnt just about how to do dentoalveolar surgery; its about learning how to manage the medically compromised patient, managing emergencies, sedation, and obviously learning more complex OMS.

From my opinion, you cant learn to manage the "sick" population through CE courses. You need to submerge yourself in the field and learn it hands on. Extracting 3rd molars on a healthy patient isnt difficult. Now when you have a patient who recieved 70gy of radiation, has uncontrolled diabetes, hx of strokes, a-fib, and is on two pages of medications with a symptomatic 3rd molar wrapped around the IAN...you're going to be begging for those 4-6 yrs of training. If that scenerio gets your heart racing in excitement, then pursue OMFS. If it makes you wet your pants and get sick, drop out of school and change your diaper (jk, lol).

I always tell people interested in specializing to do it only if you love the specialty. If you're doing it for the money, you chose the wrong career to begin with.
 
griller said:
To answer your question, Yes. I think its definitely worth the extra 4-6 years of training to become an oral surgeon.
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Thanks for your response. It's been the most helpful one so far.

Part of me feels that if I am going to spend a total of 8-10 years becoming a specialist, why not go the medical school route instead and become some other type of surgeon with a wider scope of practice in roughly the same amount of time?

How about this for a hypothetical situation: I become an OMFS and decide I want nothing to do with third molar extractions, ever. What options do I have?

Again, I'm only playing devil's advocate here to tease out some more words of encouragement. Thanks!
 
fug said:
Thanks for your response. It's been the most helpful one so far.

Part of me feels that if I am going to spend a total of 8-10 years becoming a specialist, why not go the medical school route instead and become some other type of surgeon with a wider scope of practice in roughly the same amount of time?

How about this for a hypothetical situation: I become an OMFS and decide I want nothing to do with third molar extractions, ever. What options do I have?

Again, I'm only playing devil's advocate here to tease out some more words of encouragement. Thanks!
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I think that's the factor that I like the most about OMFS. If you are not into doing 3rds, you have option to do essentially anything that's neck up, except IN the eye and IN the brain. I'm not sure if you have a head & neck specialty that gives you as much freedom, even in the MD route. Plus, you can have a sweet private practice if you want, not doing thirds; ie. Orthognathics, benign path, implants, local flaps, facial cosmetics, preprosthetics, TMD, apico, etc. etc.

Hospital setting is the same also. Yes, you do have to fight your battles, but I feel like there is always a place that's dying to have an OMFS and is willing to compensate you well for it.

👍
 
fug said:
Thanks for your response. It's been the most helpful one so far.

Part of me feels that if I am going to spend a total of 8-10 years becoming a specialist, why not go the medical school route instead and become some other type of surgeon with a wider scope of practice in roughly the same amount of time?

How about this for a hypothetical situation: I become an OMFS and decide I want nothing to do with third molar extractions, ever. What options do I have?

Again, I'm only playing devil's advocate here to tease out some more words of encouragement. Thanks!
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I play the devil's advocate all the time...it forces you to think from both sides.

My first answer to your question is...the dental profession is way better than the medical profession. We have way more freedom and aren't tied by the balls by insurance companies as physicians are...at least not yet, lol. I think the dental profession is a very close knit group that defends each other very strongly. We lobby for our rights much more effectively than the medical profession and make our quality of living what it is today. So, even as an oral surgeon, you fall under the dental umbrella and reap the benefits of being a "dentist." You have the flexibility to confine your practice to 9-5pm with no hospital duties OR you can be an operating room junky and live in the hospital doing mainly complex OMS.

But, to answer your real question, oral surgeons have a huge scope of practice...If you hate thirds, you will have a partner who will love you and do them all. He will then pawn off all the complex OMS that you love to do. Oral surgeons, with the right residency training, are qualified to do orthognathic, trauma, implants, dentoaveolar sx, craniofacial reconstruction, pathology, cosmetic surgery, cancer resection, tmj...the list goes on. With an oral surgery residency under your belt, you can pursue a fellowship afterwards to focus your training in a specific field as well. Its quite impressive what oral surgeons are capable of treating with 4-6 yrs of training.

So, the answer isn't really cut and dry. You're already in dental school and its going to train your hands way better than any medical school in the country. If you really aren't interested in teeth, transfer to medical school. But you need to realize that any 4 year OMFS program is going to teach you the medicine you need to know in order to be a competent surgeon.

One more thing...

In my opinion, oral surgeons have a great advantage when treating jaw fractures. No other surgical specialty has 4 years of dental training and is competent in extracting a complex third molar lying in a fracture line, or re-setting a jacked up occlusion. I dont know about everyone else in this forum, but if I broke my jaw/face and I needed it reduced as well as having some teeth extracted, I'd hope an oral surgeon was behind that mask and not an MD :xf:
 
griller said:
I play the devil's advocate all the time...it forces you to think from both sides.

My first answer to your question is...the dental profession is way better than the medical profession. We have way more freedom and aren't tied by the balls by insurance companies as physicians are...at least not yet, lol. I think the dental profession is a very close knit group that defends each other very strongly. We lobby for our rights much more effectively than the medical profession and make our quality of living what it is today. So, even as an oral surgeon, you fall under the dental umbrella and reap the benefits of being a "dentist." You have the flexibility to confine your practice to 9-5pm with no hospital duties OR you can be an operating room junky and live in the hospital doing mainly complex OMS.

But, to answer your real question, oral surgeons have a huge scope of practice...If you hate thirds, you will have a partner who will love you and do them all. He will then pawn off all the complex OMS that you love to do. Oral surgeons, with the right residency training, are qualified to do orthognathic, trauma, implants, dentoaveolar sx, craniofacial reconstruction, pathology, cosmetic surgery, cancer resection, tmj...the list goes on. With an oral surgery residency under your belt, you can pursue a fellowship afterwards to focus your training in a specific field as well. Its quite impressive what oral surgeons are capable of treating with 4-6 yrs of training.

So, the answer isn't really cut and dry. You're already in dental school and its going to train your hands way better than any medical school in the country. If you really aren't interested in teeth, transfer to medical school. But you need to realize that any 4 year OMFS program is going to teach you the medicine you need to know in order to be a competent surgeon.

One more thing...

In my opinion, oral surgeons have a great advantage when treating jaw fractures. No other surgical specialty has 4 years of dental training and is competent in extracting a complex third molar lying in a fracture line, or re-setting a jacked up occlusion. I dont know about everyone else in this forum, but if I broke my jaw/face and I needed it reduced as well as having some teeth extracted, I'd hope an oral surgeon was behind that mask and not an MD :xf:
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I feel sometimes that even 6 years isn't enough with everything I have learned.
 
One more thing you need to realize is that 4 years to learn OMFS is really a drop in the bucket. It takes many graduates 4-6 years to pursue other residencies such as perio, ortho, pedo, etc. I know tons of people who have done the following:

1) 1 year ortho intership and matched at a 3 year program...thats devoting 4 years, usually paying tuition and borrowing more money, to just learn how to do ortho.

2) 2 year GPR + 2 year Pedo residency... once again 4 years to tx teeth that are going to fall out.

3) 2 year gpr + 3 year Perio...thats 5 years devoted to strictly sx in the mouth (no 3rds, no path, minimal sedation)

4) Enroll in a 4 year OMFS residency: Learn to take someones face apart, sedate them, and put their whole head back together.

If you present those options to anyone, I think you quickly realize that 4 years is nothing compared to the years that others are committing to pursuing what they love.

My point...pursue what makes you excited and what will challenge you for the rest of your life. Even if it takes you a couple of years to figure it out after you graduate, extra training will only make you a better surgeon.
 
Is age ever a factor when programs consider how to rank an applicant?

For example, there are individuals that complete a 4 year Military commitment who then pursue OMFS, 4 year or 6 year. Assuming that person is 22 at beginning of dental school, 22+4+4 = 30 y.o., at application cycle. What do you guys think?
 
I just admitted a patient from outpatient to inpatient for a surgery tomorrow as a dds resident...so we do not need an md to co sign or co admit

Also, last week i watch my non os attending dds do an h and p b4 an or case

The IMF i did was with an os guy
 
DavesNotHere said:
I just admitted a patient from outpatient to inpatient for a surgery tomorrow as a dds resident...so we do not need an md to co sign or co admit

Also, last week i watch my non os attending dds do an h and p b4 an or case

The IMF i did was with an os guy
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This argument has just gotten more and more ******ed...and you guys (i'm speaking collectively and not just to dave) sound like *****s. There is no such thing as "cosigning an H&P" or "coadmitting". You either have admitting privileges or you don't, personally i dont care who does or doesn't, just stop making up words and embarrasing yourselves and dentistry in general. It is clear that people on both sides of this argument are clueless to how medicine and hospital admissions work. Do us all a favor and keep quiet if you don't know what you're talking about.
 
UNLV OMS GUNNABE said:
This argument has just gotten more and more ******ed...and you guys (i'm speaking collectively and not just to dave) sound like *****s. There is no such thing as "cosigning an H&P" or "coadmitting". You either have admitting privileges or you don't, personally i dont care who does or doesn't, just stop making up words and embarrasing yourselves and dentistry in general. It is clear that people on both sides of this argument are clueless to how medicine and hospital admissions work. Do us all a favor and keep quiet if you don't know what you're talking about.
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👍 Med students get their H&P's "cosigned", not the primary providers.
 
UNLV OMS GUNNABE said:
This argument has just gotten more and more ******ed...and you guys (i'm speaking collectively and not just to dave) sound like *****s. There is no such thing as "cosigning an H&P" or "coadmitting". You either have admitting privileges or you don't, personally i dont care who does or doesn't, just stop making up words and embarrasing yourselves and dentistry in general. It is clear that people on both sides of this argument are clueless to how medicine and hospital admissions work. Do us all a favor and keep quiet if you don't know what you're talking about.
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Im one of the great orators of my time

Ive been described as the british winston churchill
 
LOL @ perio with hospital privileges. Why? So they can consult OMFS to manage their complications?

And trauma actually pays decently under the ACA (in spite of the obamacare hate from the earlier guy -- turns out most people breaking their faces didn't have insurance, now most do) and a lot of private practice guys are at least doing mandibles.
Essentially, taking OMFS advice from anyone who isn't a surgeon (in the medical sense, not dentistry, ie not perio) or omfs is foolish, as dental school really doesn't give you exposure to OMFS or the daily realities. I don't know any recent graduates who do NOT take full facial trauma call, infection call, etc.



By and large, 90% of oral surgery discussion and advice on this forum is useless and ridiculous.
 
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