OMFS residency and MD requirements

[sjones]

When you are completing the MD part of a OMFS residency are you just given the standing of a beginning 3rd year medical student? Does dental school cover everything that the first two years of medical school do?

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[UBTom]

The OMFS programs I visited during externship in New York State all required the resident to pass the USMLE Step I in order to start the medical school portion of their residency. Some will help you review for Step I, others you are expected to refresh your memory on your own. I don't know about other programs around the country though.

HTH!

 

[texas_dds]

the OMS guys at san antonio enter med school as 2nd years and then take STEP 1 w/the med students after 2nd year

 

[ItsGavinC]

I think that most programs differ from the San Antonio program in that students take the USMLE and then complete the MS3 and MS4 years of medical school. Taking the MS2 year is rare.

 

[toothcaries]

is there an advantage in becoming "dr dr" dual degree oral surgeon?

why would you guys go those extra 2(3!!) years?
..was it mainly the option of doing plastics?

 

[omsres]

I think there is no advantage when comes down to actual training as an oral surgeon between single and dual degreed surgeons. The difference lies in the medical background. Obviously a dual degree surgeon will have more training in that respect.

Does this affect the way patients are managed? For the most part I doubt it. Healthy patients are a no brainer as well as mildly sick patients. These will make up the vast majority of the patient pool. However, if there was a moderately sick to very sick patient that required surgery(non elective), I would rather see that person treated by a dds md. This is only my opinion.

Now as a referring dentist, don't refer all the healthy people to a single degree and all the sick as **** people to a dual degree because the surgeon will hate you for only sending him/her complicated cases all the time. Chip shots are welcomed by both. So for 95% of referrals, give them to the guy you like the best. The other maybe consider a dual degreed surgeon if one is available.

Other advantages of having a dual degree are fellowship options, teaching/research, possibly more referrals from medical colleagues(not always the case), insurance, extended priviledges, and prestiege(important to some people). I'm sure some will disagree.

 

[toothcaries]

i gave omfs a long hard look..

but, for the life of me..i could not make the opportunity cost of doing a 4 year residency look attractive.

it just boggles my little mind that some kids out there have the love of OS to actually attend 6-7 year residencies...

 

[shariq]

hey omsres
i sent you a message. did you get it;
shariq

I think there is no advantage when comes down to actual training as an oral surgeon between single and dual degreed surgeons. The difference lies in the medical background. Obviously a dual degree surgeon will have more training in that respect.

Does this affect the way patients are managed? For the most part I doubt it. Healthy patients are a no brainer as well as mildly sick patients. These will make up the vast majority of the patient pool. However, if there was a moderately sick to very sick patient that required surgery(non elective), I would rather see that person treated by a dds md. This is only my opinion.

Now as a referring dentist, don't refer all the healthy people to a single degree and all the sick as **** people to a dual degree because the surgeon will hate you for only sending him/her complicated cases all the time. Chip shots are welcomed by both. So for 95% of referrals, give them to the guy you like the best. The other maybe consider a dual degreed surgeon if one is available.

Other advantages of having a dual degree are fellowship options, teaching/research, possibly more referrals from medical colleagues(not always the case), insurance, extended priviledges, and prestiege(important to some people). I'm sure some will disagree.

 

[omsres]

shariq, I didn't get a message. Try again.

 

[omfsapplicant]

Galvin, you are absolutely incorrect. Taking MS2 is not rare. In fact I'd say its more of the norm. True, many programs only due 24 months, but this usullay inludes path, clerkships and excludes the elective 4th year requirements, or counts omfs as a 4th year med elective. I can only think of MGH, Columbia, and Uconn as not doing a portion of the second year. The texas schools are at the worst end of this spectrum. You can only exclude so much of the cirriculum and still award a doctorate.

 

[dentite001]

From what I've read, there is an advantage to having the MD. If you want status within the hospital setting, it will be quite beneficial to have the MD. Afterall, it is likely you will also be competing for territory with the likes of other specialists such as plastic surgeons. It all depends on what you want.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Galvin, you are absolutely incorrect. Taking MS2 is not rare. In fact I'd say its more of the norm.

Not according to program residency websites that simply list MS3 and MS4 years. Although the details you list make complete sense (schools including 2nd year courses and then scrapping 4th year elective rotations), most programs don't list any such thing on their websites.

I have no doubt that you know much more about this than I do, but from a simple research standpoint, the average person would see that programs include MS3 and MS4 years, but not MS2 specifically as such.

Courses such as graduate head & neck anatomy, pathology, and anesthesia are certainly part of MS2 schedules at many schools, but don't even begin to comprise the typical MS2 courseload.

 

[Gutta Percha]

Dual degrees aren't for everyone. Most OS shuck teeth--ask any of them and they will tell you that is where 70-80% of their income is from. The dual degrees I know are also fellows in plastic surgery and have completed plastic surgery residencies. I really don't know of any advantage. If you can build up a practice and shuck 8 sets of 3rds a day at 1200 a set in addition to medically challenged single exts. you will make a ton.

 

[omfsapplicant]

Galvin, I'm not sure where you did your research/got your info? If you go to the aaoms.org site, there is a link to all of the programs' website. Thoguh most websites are pretty poor and certainly non-specific, this rather large detail--2nd/3rd/or 4th year, is certainly on most sites I've seen. I can add LSU-NO and Maryland to the short list of progams which only do 3rd and 4th year.

 

[Bitters]

Doing the second year of med school is a complete waste of time and energy. Hell alot of the third and fourth year is too. The post above that mentions opportunity cost is right on. It is a tremendous investment to do the extra two year. There is a general feeling amongst those in the field that the better programs are of the six year variety, and I would tend to agree. There are however 4 year programs that are as good as any six year, and some terrible six years. Can't for the life of me figure out why someone would choose to do a program with the second year of med school over the others.

The reason behind doing the second year is multifactorial. Sometimes the programs have no choice. It is dictated to them by the medical school. From the schools point of view it may be to ensure higher board scores. Personally I think its to gouge an extra year of tuition. Sometimes the programs require it because they have had poor success with residents passing step 1 of the usmle and feel that the residents need the extra didactic prep to pass.

Imaging having to pay tuition for three years of med school at some of these places like penn, usc, mt sinai. You're talking an extra 100 grand in tuition alone.

If you want to do a six year find a place that only makes you do years three and four at a state school.

Maryland, Kings county in Brooklyn, Lsu-no, Lsu-shreveport, for the publics that I am aware of, there may be more

Harvard and Columbia also follow this format however they are privat and cost an arm and a leg so if you went to a private dental school loans will be out of sight.

Feel free to do the research and add to the list. I

 

[omfsapplicant]

2nd, 3rd, and 4th year a waste of time? What is left? All programs are required to have a certain amount of time for residents to be on service. If you are doing more than 24 months of med school you are probably losing out on other experinces--time on gs... If you are going to bother and get an M.D., you might as well do it right. An extra 2 years is a long time. What people don't realize is that plastics, gs , and many other med specilaties/subspec. end-up putting in more time. At least we'll have two drs.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Galvin, I'm not sure where you did your research/got your info?

Yeah, I just got my info. from a random sampling of program websites. Like I said, I have no doubt that you are more up to speed on the specs of each program than I am. Thanks for your posts.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Can't for the life of me figure out why someone would choose to do a program with the second year of med school over the others.

Seems like if one can pass Step I, they ought to be okay. Trouble is that Step I is a beast, no doubt. Like NBDE Part I but of a 4-5x greater magnitude.

 

[River13]

Oregon, Louisville, Nebraska, UCLA, Alabama, Case Western, also include ONLY 2 years of med school...my impression was that there's a near even mix of schools that require 2 and 3 years...2 is the way to go...or even 1...

 

[TX OMFS]

Seems like if one can pass Step I, they ought to be okay. Trouble is that Step I is a beast, no doubt. Like NBDE Part I but of a 4-5x greater magnitude.

20% of the med students in my class failed Step I. The national average is about 7% failure for US nationals on their first attempt.

 

[ItsGavinC]

20% of the med students in my class failed Step I. The national average is about 7% failure for US nationals on their first attempt.

I thought it was something like that.