OMFS residency

[meddreamer21]

Hi,

I’m premed interested in switching to predent, being a patient for OS I fell in love with specialty. What is the real chance(percent) to get into 4 year oral surgery residency? Does school really matter in that case? I’m considering LECOM since one of the cheapest for OOS.

It’s difficult to decide for me, I understand that chance of not matching is significant and I'm not sure yet if I'll enjoy GD (need to shadow more). But I watched video on YouTube that said chance for oral surgery is about 48%, is that true. Seems pretty high compare to other surgical residency in med school.

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[Anonamoose]

Hi,

I’m premed interested in switching to predent, being a patient for OS I fell in love with specialty. What is the real chance(percent) to get into 4 year oral surgery residency? Does school really matter in that case? I’m considering LECOM since one of the cheapest for OOS.

It’s difficult to decide for me, I understand that chance of not matching is significant and I'm not sure yet if I'll enjoy GD (need to shadow more). But I watched video on YouTube that said chance for oral surgery is about 48%, is that true. Seems pretty high compare to other surgical residency in med school.

Keep in mind, that 48% is for those who participate in match ie. receive at least 1 interview. Many people didn't get any call backs at all... If you are a pre-med, you know what step 1 is, as an OS applicant you have to take CBSE to apply, meaning you have to study for step 1, on top of dental school. This is the biggest barrier to entry and the most important piece of your application that you need to tend to prior to applying to residency.

 

[meddreamer21]

Keep in mind, that 48% is for those who participate in match ie. receive at least 1 interview. Many people didn't get any call backs at all... If you are a pre-med, you know what step 1 is, as an OS applicant you have to take CBSE to apply, meaning you have to study for step 1, on top of dental school. This is the biggest barrier to entry and the most important piece of your application that you need to tend to prior to applying to residency.

Do you think it easier to MD to get gen surgery residency than for DDS/DMD get OFMS?

 

[Anonamoose]

Do you think it easier to MD to get gen surgery residency than for DDS/DMD get OFMS?

I cannot speak to that unfortunately. I say shadow or speak with more OS and if you could surgeons, you are interested in, pick what you like and commit to do the work to get there. I applied to dental school with the soul goal of doing OMFS (D2 so not there yet) and I think it is okay to do that. Things might change along the way, but nothing wrong with making a long term goal and working towards it.

I would say, make the decision based on what you think you will enjoy more and what is more interesting to you, not necessarily what is easier.

 

[meddreamer21]

I cannot speak to that unfortunately. I say shadow or speak with more OS and if you could surgeons, you are interested in, pick what you like and commit to do the work to get there. I applied to dental school with the soul goal of doing OMFS (D2 so not there yet) and I think it is okay to do that. Things might change along the way, but nothing wrong with making a long term goal and working towards it.

I would say, make the decision based on what you think you will enjoy more and what is more interesting to you, not necessarily what is easier.

I need more time to shadow general dentist, because for now i'm not sure what i'll prefer Int Medicine or Gen Dentist, if surgery is off the table

 

[rotichawal]

I think it’s a bad idea to go into dentistry with the sole intention of doing OMFS—the financial environment is much worse for general dentists than for a general internist, and if you have no other interests in dentistry then you will be both broke and miserable. You’ll see quite a few dental students who are only interested in OMFS (including me in the past), but it’s not a well informed decision to make.

Regarding match: I believe the 50% match rate for OMFS is more or less accurate. This is because most applicants are fairly self selecting. This is the case in other surgical sub specialties as well, with some reaching as high as a 70-80% match rate in previous years (ex: ENT, though I understand that year was an anomaly)

 

[meddreamer21]

financial environment is much worse for general dentists than for a general internist

Is that a case? I constantly read on reddit that GD can get >200k fresh out of school if he/she willing to relocate to rural area with growing to 250k in conseq years?

 

[yappy]

Is that a case? I constantly read on reddit that GD can get >200k fresh out of school if he/she willing to relocate to rural area with growing to 250k in conseq years?

I think it’s fairly comparable between the two fields. I know some physicians that are internists making 250-300k+ as W2 employees, but they also did a 3 year residency and complain about hospital medicine. I agree with the 200k W2 number being possible for dentists; I’ve seen many people do it. Neither careers will leave you “broke”.
I think the biggest variable is student loan debt. Better to just do whichever field you like most while minimizing debt.

 

[yappy]

I need more time to shadow general dentist, because for now i'm not sure what i'll prefer Int Medicine or Gen Dentist, if surgery is off the table

Many people go to medical school and decide surgery is not for them. If I were in your shoes I would shadow dentists and physicians and not pay attention to anything they say, only what they do and the settings that they’re working in. Then, ask yourself which field in healthcare seems like the best fit for you. Which are you most interested in? Then do that.

 

[meddreamer21]

Many people go to medical school and decide surgery is not for them. If I were in your shoes I would shadow dentists and physicians and not pay attention to anything they say, only what they do and the settings that they’re working in. Then, ask yourself which field in healthcare seems like the best fit for you. Which are you most interested in? Then do that.

Thank you! Do you mean shadow general dentist and primary doc? I'm studying in small city and it's very difficult to finds docs allow shadowing. What I understand from my shadowing, is that you need to shadow many docs to understand the field. I shadowed 3 podiatrist and have completely different view on this career. While one cut fungal nails from 9 to 5, second one doing ortho in big group and have 2 whole surgical days per week with complex surgeries and the third one was practice owner with 1 surgical day bi-weekly.

 

[rotichawal]

Is that a case? I constantly read on reddit that GD can get >200k fresh out of school if he/she willing to relocate to rural area with growing to 250k in conseq years?

To be fair, most hard salary figures are regional in nature. In the part of the northeast I’m located in, I don’t know any family docs making less than $300k starting whereas a good proportion of my general dentist peers 1-2 years out are struggling to even find full time employment and are working 2 jobs making roughly 60-80k each. Yes, there is residency involved in medicine, but I think with the current dental job market and deathly high student loan burdens that dentistry is in a bit of a spiral at the moment

 

[meddreamer21]

To be fair, most hard salary figures are regional in nature. In the part of the northeast I’m located in, I don’t know any family docs making less than $300k starting whereas a good proportion of my general dentist peers 1-2 years out are struggling to even find full time employment and are working 2 jobs making roughly 60-80k each. Yes, there is residency involved in medicine, but I think with the current dental job market and deathly high student loan burdens that dentistry is in a bit of a spiral at the moment

But they make 120k 160k because they not willing to relocate or in general all that bad?

 

[deleted1047421]

I also was a premed in undergrad and I took the MCAT with a high score.
I ended up applying to dental school because I got my wisdom teeth removed and job shadowed the same oral surgeon for a week, during undergrad.

I knew immediately that this was the field for me.
I switched completely to applying to dental school with the main goal of entering omfs.
I think applicants with a clear goal of doing omfs is a very good thing. It forces them to study hard and do well academically from the start.

The summer before dental school I had already purchased textbooks (dental anatomy etc histology, anatomy) and had read and studied the text books prior.

I matched straight out of dental school to first ranked program.
I know many others who were just like me.

If I couldn’t have became an oral surgeon would I still do dental school ?
That’s a tough question to answer. I’d still choose to be a general dentist. I think I would have been a highly productive general dentist. Perhaps I would try to do a dental anesthesia residency.

 

[Anonamoose]

I think applicants with a clear goal of doing omfs is a very good thing. It forces them to study hard and do well academically from the start.

This is what I was trying to say. Is there always a possibility that things don't work out? Yes, and everyone must accept that. But that is not a good enough reason to not pursue what you want. I think it is a good plan for OP to continue to shadow and find that for themselves.

 

[yappy]

Thank you! Do you mean shadow general dentist and primary doc? I'm studying in small city and it's very difficult to finds docs allow shadowing. What I understand from my shadowing, is that you need to shadow many docs to understand the field. I shadowed 3 podiatrist and have completely different view on this career. While one cut fungal nails from 9 to 5, second one doing ortho in big group and have 2 whole surgical days per week with complex surgeries and the third one was practice owner with 1 surgical day bi-weekly.

If you’re considering medicine you need to get into a hospital. Shadow med/surg floors. From there shadow the out patient clinics.

 

[deleted923283]

Of the people entering dental school interested in OS, I’d guess 10% actually take the CBSE.

Of those who take the CBSE, I’d say only 50% ever get a good enough score to apply.

Of those who apply, maybe 50% get an interview.

Of those who get an interview, only 50% match.

 

[meddreamer21]

Of the people entering dental school interested in OS, I’d guess 10% actually take the CBSE.

Of those who take the CBSE, I’d say only 50% ever get a good enough score to apply.

Of those who apply, maybe 50% get an interview.

Of those who get an interview, only 50% match.

But how it's compare to MD, there also not many people get into surgery and CBSE basically Step1, which any MD/DO must take

 

[letmeinthankss]

Of the people entering dental school interested in OS, I’d guess 10% actually take the CBSE.

Of those who take the CBSE, I’d say only 50% ever get a good enough score to apply.

Of those who apply, maybe 50% get an interview.

Of those who get an interview, only 50% match.

what's a good enough score to apply?

 

[piratewow]

Of the people entering dental school interested in OS, I’d guess 10% actually take the CBSE.

Of those who take the CBSE, I’d say only 50% ever get a good enough score to apply.

Of those who apply, maybe 50% get an interview.

Of those who get an interview, only 50% match.

In my year 25/100 wanted it D1, 7 took the CBSE, 4 applied, and 3 got in ( we usually match 50%)

 

[meddreamer21]

In my year 25/100 wanted it D1, 7 took the CBSE, 4 applied, and 3 got in ( we usually match 50%)

Are you in 4 or 6 program? So, you think that if you commit to this day 1, it's really possible to get into? How I understand CBSE basically is Step1, which I'll need to take anyway if I went MD/DO route.

 

[teeth!]

In my year 25/100 wanted it D1, 7 took the CBSE, 4 applied, and 3 got in ( we usually match 50%)

This right here was exactly why as a D1 I told myself to start studying now. Easy to quit or take pedal off the gas in terms of gpa but if I started studying for CBSE early it would just become life until I get the score was needed.
I was wondering, how do you find out the “score you won’t retake” ? Just word of mouth?

 

[The Kube of Kubes]

Of the people entering dental school interested in OS, I’d guess 10% actually take the CBSE.

Of those who take the CBSE, I’d say only 50% ever get a good enough score to apply.

Of those who apply, maybe 50% get an interview.

Of those who get an interview, only 50% match.

I mean these are just the odds for matching out of school. There are odds of matching after a non-cat, which I’d assume are better right?

 

[DMD12345]

The match rate for surgical residency is 90%+. Even for ortho and neurosurgery which are considered "competitive"

OMFS is way harder to match

Try telling this to a neurosurgeon lol. There's more to the story behind these match numbers

 

[OMFS**]

Try telling this to a neurosurgeon lol. There's more to the story behind these match numbers

I deleted my comment because I looked up match rates and I was wrong lol. But still the match rates are much higher in medicine even for ortho and neurosurgery than for OMFS.

"The neurosurgery match is highly competitive, with 74.3% of U.S. medical applicants successfully matching into the specialty in 2020 compared with 89.8% in all specialties"

The 2021 Neurosurgery Match: An Analysis of the Impact of Virtual Interviewing and Other COVID-19–Related Changes - PMC

Given the safety concerns during the COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019) pandemic, residency programs suspended away rotations in 2021, and the interview process was transitioned to a virtual video format. In the present study, we assessed the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[DMD12345]

I deleted my comment because I looked up match rates and I was wrong lol. But still the match rates are much higher in medicine even for ortho and neurosurgery than for OMFS.

Okay, my comment still stands

 

[OMFS**]

Okay, my comment still stands

I'm just being objective. Everyone will say my path was harder. But objectively looking at match rates OMFS is harder than Neurosurgery.

You can argue competition in med school is harder and that's valid but that would be a subjective statement.

 

[DMD12345]

I deleted my comment because I looked up match rates and I was wrong lol. But still the match rates are much higher in medicine even for ortho and neurosurgery than for OMFS.

"The neurosurgery match is highly competitive, with 74.3% of U.S. medical applicants successfully matching into the specialty in 2020 compared with 89.8% in all specialties"

The 2021 Neurosurgery Match: An Analysis of the Impact of Virtual Interviewing and Other COVID-19–Related Changes - PMC

Given the safety concerns during the COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019) pandemic, residency programs suspended away rotations in 2021, and the interview process was transitioned to a virtual video format. In the present study, we assessed the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Pretty much all dental match stats are about 50% and below. Are you're saying it's "way harder to match" into perio or an AEGD than it is to match neurosurgery? And also that since OMFS in 2023 had a match rate of 57% and perio had 47%, that it's easier to match omfs than perio? You can't look at one number, assume there's no dynamic story behind it, extrapolate far fetched conclusions, and then say you're just being objective. These oversimplifications are why stats have no credibility and are easy to tell any story with.

 

[OMFS**]

Pretty much all dental match stats are about 50% and below. Are you're saying it's "way harder to match" into perio or an AEGD than it is to match neurosurgery? And also that since OMFS in 2023 had a match rate of 57% and perio had 47%, that it's easier to match omfs than perio? You can't look at one number, assume there's no dynamic story behind it, extrapolate far fetched conclusions, and then say you're just being objective. These oversimplifications are why stats have no credibility and are easy to tell any story with.

Hmm thats a good point. I didnt know that other dental residencies also had low match rates. I guess you could argue that since dental residencies aren't mandatory there are naturally fewer spots since not everyone needs to match as compared to medical residencies.

I'll retract my statement of OMFS being harder. But factually, if someone goes to dental school with the intention of matching OMFS they have about a 50% chance. Whereas if someone goes to med school with the intention of matching Neuro/Ortho they have 75% chance. So disregarding which path is harder, if you play the odds med school looks more favorable for OP. ENT/Plastics both have lots of overlap with OMFS as well

 

[DMD12345]

Hmm thats a good point. I didnt know that other dental residencies also had low match rates. I guess you could argue that since dental residencies aren't mandatory there are naturally fewer spots since not everyone needs to match as compared to medical residencies.

I'll retract my statement of OMFS being harder. But factually, if someone goes to dental school with the intention of matching OMFS they have about a 50% chance. Whereas if someone goes to med school with the intention of matching Neuro/Ortho they have 75% chance. So disregarding which path is harder, if you play the odds med school looks more favorable for OP. ENT/Plastics both have lots of overlap with OMFS as well

Again, you're sticking to the same incorrect logic. I'd love to debate this further...but I got this pretty little date I'm preparing for on July 22nd I gotta get back to focusing on iykyk

 

[IndifferentOsteoblast]

You can't look at one number, assume there's no dynamic story behind it, extrapolate far fetched conclusions, and then say you're just being objective. These oversimplifications are why stats have no credibility and are easy to tell any story with.

Agreed. Plus, not all applicants are equal, and there’s no way to account for that aspect. We’re all going to apply anyway, regardless of the odds

 

[Pleurodynia]

If you don’t match as a Med student you are screwed. The stakes are much less severe if you don’t match as a dental student as you can always just work as a GP.

If people applying to PRS/neurosurg were guaranteed a spot to work as an IM if it didn’t work out I guarantee the match rate would be lower as many more people would shoot their shot.

Everyone applying to those specialties has perfect stats, including 25+ pubs/abstracts/presentations, as opposed to OMFS in which many have 0 and still match.

 

[OMFS**]

Again, you're sticking to the same incorrect logic. I'd love to debate this further...but I got this pretty little date I'm preparing for on July 22nd I gotta get back to focusing on iykyk

Lol good luck. I'm taking it next Feb.

At the end of the day I don't really care which path is harder. I just hope OP goes to med school so there's less competition in dentistry lmao. Already too many dentists

 

[axiumgod]

General dentistry is harder than neurosurgery because dental school has a 45% acceptance rate but neurosurgery is 75%

 

[OMFS**]

I get it bro my argument was very flawed. I'll take this L you don't have to sauce yourself 🤣

General dentistry is harder than neurosurgery because dental school has a 45% acceptance rate but neurosurgery is 75%

 

[meddreamer21]

Lol good luck. I'm taking it next Feb.

At the end of the day I don't really care which path is harder. I just hope OP goes to med school so there's less competition in dentistry lmao. Already too many dentists

😀 Yeah, I don't decide yet. Seems that I can't be competitor to you guys, we are not In the same time frame

 

[bracketbuster68]

But how it's compare to MD, there also not many people get into surgery and CBSE basically Step1, which any MD/DO must take

Easier to get into OMFS compared to the MD route and OMFS make more.

 

[Allsmiles!]

Are you in 4 or 6 program? So, you think that if you commit to this day 1, it's really possible to get into? How I understand CBSE basically is Step1, which I'll need to take anyway if I went MD/DO route.

Very important! You are not taking into consideration that unless you get into a DS where your first two years are with the medical students M1/M2 ( which there are only a few), you will have to study for the CBSE on your own time with none of the classes in DS helping you prep for the exam.

 

[piratewow]

Easier to get into OMFS compared to the MD route and OMFS make more.

Agreed- Neurosurg, plastics, ent, derm are more competitive than OMFS, the rest of the med specialties not so much( maybe orthopedics). But OMFS has way better work life balance and pay per hr/procedure.

 

[ToothJockey]

If you're 100% sure you want to do OMFS I would study for the CBSE even before you start school. By that I mean you should go through all of Boards and Beyond and/or Pathoma once. You should also start on your Anki reviews during that time. You have months of free time you won't have in dental school.

People will disagree with me, but you'll find out once you get to dental school you barely have free time to study for the CBSE. Unless you go to a school with a med curriculum, dental school teaches you jack about what you need to know for the CBSE. So there is quite literally no benefit in waiting until you're up to your neck in school work to start studying.

 

[teeth!]

If you're 100% sure you want to do OMFS I would study for the CBSE even before you start school. By that I mean you should go through all of Boards and Beyond and/or Pathoma once. You should also start on your Anki reviews during that time. You have months of free time you won't have in dental school.

People will disagree with me, but you'll find out once you get to dental school you barely have free time to study for the CBSE. Unless you go to a school with a med curriculum, dental school teaches you jack about what you need to know for the CBSE. So there is quite literally no benefit in waiting until you're up to your neck in school work to start studying.

I didn’t do this and it’s so true, I wish I did

 

[IndifferentOsteoblast]

True to some degree. Study if you must, but definitely try to enjoy the freedom before it’s gone. Do the things you love. Go on vacation. Go out with friends and lose some brain cells. Soak it up because when it’s gone, it’s gone. You will never experience that undergrad type of freedom ever again. I, along with many others, studied for it while simultaneously taking 20-25 dental school credits, so it’s definitely doable. Just something to consider

 

[ToothJockey]

At the start of dental school, maybe 25-50% of the class wants to do OMFS. By 3rd year it’s probably like 5-10%.

The biggest obstacle? CBSE

I’m not saying you should be scoring 240 on your NBMEs before dental school. I’m just saying get through BnB and Pathoma once and start your anki. If you’re doing Anking thats 30k cards. Then once you start school you can focus on UWorld.

You can do all this while having fun. Do anki on vacation. Do 2 boards and beyond videos every night. Read first aid rather than fiction books.

3 months of sacrifice so you can do what you love for the remaining 60 years of your life. Seems worth it to me…

To OP, you’ll hate me for telling you to study now. Future you will thank me when you’re sitting on an 80 as a D1.

 

[DMD12345]

At the start of dental school, maybe 25-50% of the class wants to do OMFS. By 3rd year it’s probably like 5-10%.

The biggest obstacle? CBSE

I’m not saying you should be scoring 240 on your NBMEs before dental school. I’m just saying get through BnB and Pathoma once and start your anki. If you’re doing Anking thats 30k cards. Then once you start school you can focus on UWorld.

You can do all this while having fun. Do anki on vacation. Do 2 boards and beyond videos every night. Read first aid rather than fiction books.

3 months of sacrifice so you can do what you love for the remaining 60 years of your life. Seems worth it to me…

To OP, you’ll hate me for telling you to study now. Future you will thank me when you’re sitting on an 80 as a D1.

Big agree. You have 6 months after dental school acceptance where you're doing jack ****. You can kick it back with Sattar and Ryan a bit. It's worth

 

[axiumgod]

Def not worth it to study before dental school even starts, that’s a surefire way to burn yourself out. Learn to excel in dental school first, then when you have a solid grasp on how to do well in classes, start studying for the CBSE.

 

[DMD12345]

Anyone else concerned there are so many different CBSE score reports including two different 2 digits scores. I was discussing my February 2023 score with a PD (69) and he was concerned that my score was “not passing Step 1” although it clearly would be. “97% chance passing”. My 69 score equals a 74 to the other two digit score which just simply sounds better. I hope other program directors know the difference between these scores because it has me concerned that although i scored well it may not be perceived that way.

Pretty annoying isn’t it. Don’t worry, when we go to apply and they think everyone has **** scores, you’ll be at the top of the pile with a less ****ty score

 

[DMD12345]

Specifically he said “you know a lot of people applying will have a higher score than you”.

A 69 EPC is around 80th percentile for OMFS applicants according to AAOMS. When did 20% of test takers become “a lot more people than you”?

It made really suspicious they don’t know the difference in scoring

Just put your CV like this:

University of Potatoes
GPA: 3.80
CBSE: 69% (74; 212)

 

[ToothJockey]

Def not worth it to study before dental school even starts, that’s a surefire way to burn yourself out. Learn to excel in dental school first, then when you have a solid grasp on how to do well in classes, start studying for the CBSE.

A few extra months of light studying when you likely have nothing to do is a surefire way to burnout? C'mon man, If that were true you wouldn't make it through OMFS residency anyways which is 4-6 years of much more work than a few boards and beyond videos per day + anki and first aid.

In my opinion if you know you're set on OMFS going into D1, you'll really be doing yourself a favor by doing the content review for CBSE before school starts. Then you can just worry about UWorld + excelling in your classes, you can take the CBSE in your D1 year/right after. If you perform well, great. If not, it leaves you plenty of time to retake and now you already have a solid foundation on the material while your peers have barely started studying for it.

Anyways that's it for me on this topic. There is no right answer, do what's best for you and good luck!

 

[meddreamer21]

A few extra months of light studying when you likely have nothing to do is a surefire way to burnout? C'mon man, If that were true you wouldn't make it through OMFS residency anyways which is 4-6 years of much more work than a few boards and beyond videos per day + anki and first aid.

In my opinion if you know you're set on OMFS going into D1, you'll really be doing yourself a favor by doing the content review for CBSE before school starts. Then you can just worry about UWorld + excelling in your classes, you can take the CBSE in your D1 year/right after. If you perform well, great. If not, it leaves you plenty of time to retake and now you already have a solid foundation on the material while your peers have barely started studying for it.

Anyways that's it for me on this topic. There is no right answer, do what's best for you and good luck!

Thank you! Study ahead is always a good strategy

 

[Pleurodynia]

I think people are underestimating the importance of peaking at the right time. I don’t think it’s smart to study before d1, once school hits you’re not gonna be able to keep up with anki/content review and simultaneously keep class rank up and learn hand skills. If you’re not reviewing properly then you’ve wasted a lot of the time you’ve studied before d1.

Best time to take cbse is when you have a window of 6-12 months of consistent studying (Feb d2 is ideal in my opinion).

 

[stealyoface]

Lol yeah man you don’t need to start studying for the CBSE before starting dental school. That’s insanity. Just relax and enjoy your summer. Spend time with your friends and family while you still have it. You have plenty of time to take this test. If you wanna do omfs just get mostly A’s in class and start cbse studying at some point D1 year. I didn’t start studying for the cbse until D3 year and it was fine. I’d recommend starting earlier though like in D1 year so you can get it out of the way