OMFS residency?

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crazy4clana

crazy4clana

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Since OMFS is one of the hardest specialties to get into, does it matter which dental school you go to?
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Doubt it.

I can't really see the thought process. "Oh, this dude got a 95 on the boards and has more A's than a Tokyo lingerie shop, but I heard that the education in DO preps and SC/RP is much more inferior at school X, therefore I choose to set his application on fire and dance around it gleefully."
 
:hardy:I will find out next year:hardy:

San Antonio 2009
 
Not that much. Your boards, gpa, networking, interview abilities and showing interest will probably matter more than the actual school you attended
 
armorshell said:
Highly-ranked in what?
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Oral Surgery of course. Some programs let you do oral surgery procedures, LeForts and GSW, etc. These schools plus combined with their U.S. News rankings are the surgical schools. The clinical schools for GP's are schools like UoP or Temple.
 
1992Corolla said:
Oral Surgery of course. Some programs let you do oral surgery procedures, LeForts and GSW, etc. These schools plus combined with their U.S. News rankings are the surgical schools. The clinical schools for GP's are schools like UoP or Temple.
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I heard the ortho requirement for graduating from harvard dental is 5 BSSO's and an inverted-L osteotomy. Don't even ask what the OS requirements are. :laugh:
 
once again beat the Columbia, Harvard, UConn thread begins. Historically, these school produce specialists in greater percentages than other schools. Not that the schools are any better, but attending D-school with others who intend to specialize, cultivates an environment to obtain top marks and matriculate into residencies. I have met outstanding residents from other dental schools. Competitive schools just have more that will specialize at top programs.
 
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shabu2 said:
once again beat the Columbia, Harvard, UConn thread begins. Historically, these school produce specialists in greater percentages than other schools. Not that the schools are any better, but attending D-school with others who intend to specialize, cultivates an environment to obtain top marks and matriculate into residencies. I have met outstanding residents from other dental schools. Competitive schools just have more that will specialize at top programs.
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I don't think anyone would argue with that. There's clearly a ton of individuals motivated to specialize who end up in those school's classes every year, and I'm sure the schools have a very specialty-friendly personality, which can't hurt.
 
armorshell said:
I don't think anyone would argue with that. There's clearly a ton of individuals motivated to specialize who end up in those school's classes every year, and I'm sure the schools have a very specialty-friendly personality, which can't hurt.
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+1, but if you were only accepted into one program yu really have no choice. ie: ME.
 
1992Corolla said:
+1, but if you were only accepted into one program yu really have no choice. ie: ME.
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Going to a school with, well, the opposite of a specialty friendly personality (We're GP friendly, not specialty hostile), hasn't made any noticeable impact so far, besides the fact that I don't get any special treatment, which seems so unfairly fair.
 
Another question, I heard that to get into specialties it's beneficial to do research. What kind of research do you do if you want to pursue oral surgery?
 
Heh, thanks I got that. I meant specifically to OMFS, it is required or encouraged?
 
Yes, it does matter, to an extent. For instance, some dental schools make it nearly impossible to do externships, some encourage them. Some dental schools dont have an OMFS department, some have great departments with well connected PD's. Some dental schools have many grads who are at programs, and these grads have made an impression that grads from this school tend to be good residents. Some dental schools give you an entire summer to study for part 1, some give you one week. Some OMFS programs are known to take at least one of their dental grads if not three (Iowa).

So to say it doesnt matter is not correct. But, that being said, it doesnt matter where you go, if you bust your arss, you can get into almost any program despite the dental school you went to. Hope that made you more confused.
 
A specialty like OMFS is very medically oriented. That being said, if i wanted to go oral surgery, i would have probably gone to a school like upenn or harvard or uconn. Not because they are private but because they are more medically based. For example, a strong clinical school will devote more of their time training your hands while a school that usually offers a dmd will spend more time training your brain. I think this helps in the long run when preparing for boards and surviving residency.

Im not saying that you cant do omfs from a clinical school, but i think it will be more challenging. Im in a strong clinical school now and wish we had better professors to learn the didactic in more depth and with more renowned professors.

Everyone says that the atmosphere at an ivy league is more conducive to specializing...its probably true, but i think they train their students on academics more then clinical. If you think about it, when you're in residency and you decide to go the 6yr route and get your md, that extra info you learned in physio or immuno will help you.

Thats my opinion. PM me if you want more advice. i think i have some good insight on what you're curious about
 
griller said:
Thats my opinion. PM me if you want more advice. i think i have some good insight on what you're curious about
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WARNING, DO NOT TAKE ADVICE FROM HIM

Please, oh please, tell me you are kidding. You should not be allowed to give advice.

My favorite thing you wrote was about schools that offer the DMD vs. DDS. Very profound. And about the "clinical schools". Nice one. Never mind that OMFS is also very technically challenging.

It is a wonder I have made this far in residency, because I went to a clinical school and got a DDS.

I will agree with you on one thing. The "ivy leaguers" do spend more time with their "grillers" planted in books, but that is for the most part meaningless. Except they usually get more time to study boards and wind up with better board scores.
 
griller said:
A specialty like OMFS is very medically oriented. That being said, if i wanted to go oral surgery, i would have probably gone to a school like upenn or harvard or uconn. Not because they are private but because they are more medically based. For example, a strong clinical school will devote more of their time training your hands while a school that usually offers a dmd will spend more time training your brain. I think this helps in the long run when preparing for boards and surviving residency.

Im not saying that you cant do omfs from a clinical school, but i think it will be more challenging. Im in a strong clinical school now and wish we had better professors to learn the didactic in more depth and with more renowned professors.

Everyone says that the atmosphere at an ivy league is more conducive to specializing...its probably true, but i think they train their students on academics more then clinical. If you think about it, when you're in residency and you decide to go the 6yr route and get your md, that extra info you learned in physio or immuno will help you.

Thats my opinion. PM me if you want more advice. i think i have some good insight on what you're curious about
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What the hell are you talking about?
 
Never trust anyone with less than 1,000 posts. :D
 
wow, you all are *****s. if you dont think there is a difference between certain schools offering a DMD vs a DDS, you are strongly mistaken. not all dmd's and dds schools are completely different, i merely referred to the dmd based on some stellar schools offereing it. I didnt mean to say that if you want to go omfs, go dmd...no, because thats absurd. I can guarantee at a school like UCONN or Harvard, you will be busting your *** learning about the WHOLE body while other students at clinically based school will be doing wax ups in labs.

All i meant to say is that getting a more in depth background into the medical world would benefit you a little more. Not saying going to a more in depth clinical school would leave you at a disadvantage, but when the hell would learning more about the whole body hurt you?

If i am not mistaken, omfs(6yr/md) requires you to take the USMLE....med boards. So the closer your education is with the med students, the easier it will be to pass. So i think uconn and harvard dents take their core classes with the meds....right? yes......


any dmd's want to chime in and give their 2 cents on what they think the diff in their programs are?

I say dmd and dds is quite diff because i believe the foundation of the school was probably started on a more medical view of the whole dental world.

so take my advice or not. i wouldnt take advice from narrow minded losers who dont understand what other people write
 
and when i say DMD vs DDS, im not referring to every freakin school in the US. But if you think a DMD from harvard, and a DDS from kentucky is identical, you're lost. The difference in the amount of clinical work, research, lab work, patient interaction, etc. is WAY DIFFERENT.

So to really answer the main question....

I think it can help to go to certain schools to pursue OMFS, but if you can make it into residency out of any school with a dmd/dds
 
in addition...go to some of the top OMFS websites and look up what schools the residents went to......you'll quickly realize a trend that many top notch schools (harvard, penn, unc, pitt) place their students into these extremely competitive programs. if again, someone responds saying im confused or lost, they must be blind and misreading my post and thinking i am bashing everyone that is not in a popular program.

but i am also referring to pursuing the best possible undergrad dental school, the best residency and pursuing the greatest opportunities whether they be joining a great practice, or having an opportunity to teach at a renowned university.

Its definitely possible to go to any dent school in the world, get into whatever residency, and graduate pulling teeth. But if you want to maximize your opportunity, i wouldnt settle for just any school.
 
griller said:
wow, you all are *****s. If you dont think a school's mission offering a DMD and a DDS is different, you are ******ed. You still become a dentist, but the "MISSION STATEMENT" from each school getting to that DDS or DMD is different. I can guarantee at a school like UCONN or Harvard, you will be busting your *** learning about the WHOLE body while other students at clinically based school will be doing wax ups in labs.

All i meant to say is that getting a more in depth background into the medical world would benefit you a little more. Not saying going to a more in depth clinical school would leave you at a disadvantage, but when the hell would learning more about the whole body hurt you?

If i am not mistaken, omfs requires you to take the USMLE....med boards. So the closer your education is with the med students, the easier it will be to pass. So i think uconn and harvard dents take their core classes with the meds....right? yes......


any dmd's want to chime in and give their 2 cents on what they think the diff in their programs are?

I say dmd and dds is quite diff because i believe the foundation of the school was probably started on a more medical view of the whole dental world.

so take my advice or not. i wouldnt take advice from narrow minded losers who dont understand what other people write
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Griller,

First off I just want to say I agree with you that it does help to go into OMFS from some d-schools. I go to a very clinically based d-school and there are aspects of my school that frustate me and limit my ability to get into residency (i.e. getting time off to go to interviews or externships), but I met some one from Columbia who is also frustated by this same problem (its dental school who isn't frusted). On the other hand our program director is incredibly helpful at giving us the best chance of getting in (i.e. will ansewr questions from dental students, encourages us to go to grand rounds, is well net worked, and writes us good letters of rec). I go to probably the most clinical based school in the country (or at least they like to tell us I do) and we have one person doing the military program, four people into residency, and two who are doing internships at good places. Nobody just completly struck out, so I really think where you go to dental school is the last thing that gets you into a program. Finally, I would be careful who you call *****s some of the people you are talking to right now are awesome residents or are going to being awesome residents. Just my two cents.
 
OK, to the OP, please do not denigrate people who you do not know, people you may know.. fine, but the people responding in the above posts are correct; a DDS and DMD are one in the same as it translates to what you can and cannot do in practice. A school's curriculum, while adhering to the recommended accreditation by ADA, is unique by what each school thinks should be undertaken as studies by its students above and beyond these recommendations (eg PBL and the likes). Back to the original question, I believe the school one attends absolutely makes a difference, a highly respected, true pass/fail without class rankings will gives its kids a blanket to get thru the transcript analysis round of cutoffs (since all that is on th transcript is PPPPPPp) vs someone from some other school with a GPA. They simply get the benefit of the doubt. Now apart from that, some of these same schools are more academically inclined, you learn more medicine, do more labs, do more dissecting, and as a end result the students at the end just know more, ..not smarter....but as a function of the environment just know more. So of course they are gonna have higher average board scores, and higher match rates..etc. But in the end a good applicant is a good applicant and whereas we get a P, they get a 3.9, which in many ppls book is a lot more tangible.

I was one of 5 that applied to OS this cycle, and I matched. All 5 of us applied to a certain program in NY ,non of us got an interview, but people with lesser stats than us got invites...my opinion was they prefer the tangible GPA.
 
i definitely agree with you. you get awesome training at most schools and you can be the best damn surgeon in the world, its just a matter of applying yourself and wanting it the most. im sure there are people frustrated at every school. i just want to emphasize that it would be nice to get a more in depth core science curriculum when pursuing a 6yr/md omfs residency...im sure it would help out a bit but definitely not make you a god or surpass everyone with a dds w/o an md.

and as *****s go, i call people *****s who jump to far conclusions. i merely refered to dmd programs as harvard and uconn to stress the medical background and emphasize the difference in the approach of their education. im sure everyone in here are awesome residents/students. you can still be a ***** though
 
jaiceman said:
OK, to the OP, please do not denigrate people who you do not know, people you may know..
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What? I did not say anything to denigrate people here. I asked one question. :confused:
 
Wow. I fail to see how the classes I take here (temple, DMD) differ from someone at Columbia/Harvard/UPenn/Case/etc. (All DMD programs)

I mean, you can only learn so much about sarcoidoses or HHV-8 or heart failure or NUG or radiology, etc.

Maybe these ivy league schools train better for the boards? Using dental decks and high yield books that everyone else has access to? I don't know. We have the same exact teachers that the med students have. They also teach the podiatrists, pharmacy students, and some graduate students.

Temple offers the DMD by the way. A very clinically based school and a DMD. Maybe we are the one exception. I really say it boils down to board scores and class rank and the other things are fillers for competitive applicants to separate themselves from each other.

I also think most OMFS programs are pretty random as far as taking people from a school, at least in my recent look at current residents and where they matched and what school they went to.

In essence the degree behind the school doesn't matter. Unless someone sits down (armorshell? get to work) and does some serious statistical analysis of matches, degrees, schools attended, part I scores, class rank, etc. for the last 20 years then we are all *****s giving our opinions and blanket statements. There are so many possible scenarios that it is impossible to say "Do this and you will get into this program". I say go to the school that fits your personality the best and then work as hard as possible for the thing that you desire.
 
sorry:idea:, that was toward griller
 
Dude, when I tell you that everything we learned broken down to the most minute of detail...believe me. Was it necessary?...no. But they did it anyway. PBL takes up a chunk, dental classes are taught at separate times from regular med school (also racking up the hours, since the often cover stuff in dental classes that was already covered in med school. so in essence we get a dental version of a med lecture). Cultural sensitivity training,stuff like that.
 
1992Corolla said:
In essence the degree behind the school doesn't matter. Unless someone sits down (armorshell? get to work) and does some serious statistical analysis of matches, degrees, schools attended, part I scores, class rank, etc. for the last 20 years then we are all *****s giving our opinions and blanket statements. There are so many possible scenarios that it is impossible to say "Do this and you will get into this program". I say go to the school that fits your personality the best and then work as hard as possible for the thing that you desire.
Click to expand...

I would do this right now if I thought for a second that any school in the country would give me access to this information. I do have a couple ideas that I want to run by one of my research advisors though, I think it would be interesting to get a comparison of some specialty statistics between UCSF and UoP, consider the proximity and supposed difference between the curriculums in regard to specializing. If there's any SF students out there interested in something like that, give me a holler.
 
armorshell said:
I would do this right now if I thought for a second that any school in the country would give me access to this information. I do have a couple ideas that I want to run by one of my research advisors though, I think it would be interesting to get a comparison of some specialty statistics between UCSF and UoP, consider the proximity and supposed difference between the curriculums in regard to specializing. If there's any SF students out there interested in something like that, give me a holler.
Click to expand...

interesting. I wonder if I could do this with UPenn...
 
griller said:
in addition...go to some of the top OMFS websites and look up what schools the residents went to......you'll quickly realize a trend that many top notch schools (harvard, penn, unc, pitt) place their students into these extremely competitive programs. if again, someone responds saying im confused or lost, they must be blind and misreading my post and thinking i am bashing everyone that is not in a popular program.

but i am also referring to pursuing the best possible undergrad dental school, the best residency and pursuing the greatest opportunities whether they be joining a great practice, or having an opportunity to teach at a renowned university.

Its definitely possible to go to any dent school in the world, get into whatever residency, and graduate pulling teeth. But if you want to maximize your opportunity, i wouldnt settle for just any school.
Click to expand...
i just wanted to point out that UNC is a DDS school.
 
griller said:
wow, you all are *****s. if you dont think there is a difference between certain schools offering a DMD vs a DDS, you are strongly mistaken. not all dmd's and dds schools are completely different, i merely referred to the dmd based on some stellar schools offereing it. I didnt mean to say that if you want to go omfs, go dmd...no, because thats absurd. I can guarantee at a school like UCONN or Harvard, you will be busting your *** learning about the WHOLE body while other students at clinically based school will be doing wax ups in labs.

All i meant to say is that getting a more in depth background into the medical world would benefit you a little more. Not saying going to a more in depth clinical school would leave you at a disadvantage, but when the hell would learning more about the whole body hurt you?

If i am not mistaken, omfs(6yr/md) requires you to take the USMLE....med boards. So the closer your education is with the med students, the easier it will be to pass. So i think uconn and harvard dents take their core classes with the meds....right? yes......


any dmd's want to chime in and give their 2 cents on what they think the diff in their programs are?

I say dmd and dds is quite diff because i believe the foundation of the school was probably started on a more medical view of the whole dental world.

so take my advice or not. i wouldnt take advice from narrow minded losers who dont understand what other people write
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You are ******ed.

To the moderator, this is not a personal insult, it is true. Thus I have not broken any of the rules of this forum.
 
griller said:
and when i say DMD vs DDS, im not referring to every freakin school in the US. But if you think a DMD from harvard, and a DDS from kentucky is identical, you're lost. The difference in the amount of clinical work, research, lab work, patient interaction, etc. is WAY DIFFERENT.

So to really answer the main question....

I think it can help to go to certain schools to pursue OMFS, but if you can make it into residency out of any school with a dmd/dds
Click to expand...

And Kentucky is a DMD program (not that it matters)...
 
good god, you all are getting way too over worked from my post. all thats missing is a critique on all my grammar mistakes
 
wow...i kno this thread is kinda old now...but I feel like people on this forum gets very self-involved when such topic comes up. RIDICULOUS and POINTLESS....just do the best you can at wherever you are...
 
There is a lot to be said about an individual looking to specialize in any field of dentistry and medicine and the motivation to get to that goal. A dental education from a DDS or a DMD school still qualifies you as a dentist. In school make the most of it, make sure that you want to do OMS because that is where you think you are most passionate about, there are some endodontists, prosthodontist making better money for less malpractice overhead cost. Research is just that, and look for where the money is. Having friends that have worked with NIH grants in immunological studies with minorities has gotten them several invites to meet some important OMS chairman. Doing outreaches to Haiti and DR with the Smile team will also allow you to network. Schools are schools, you want to do well with which ever one you choose and as for the ones that claim to have higher percentages that go on to specialize, one must wonder if it due to the lack of clinical experience as a dentist. Specialist are going to be hard pressed to trouble shoot the more difficult cases that the GPs opt not to do due to financial issues more GP are opting to gain more training in certain areas ie ortho/ invisalign and implants, so... I guess the best idea is to keep thing simple and well focused. If you are interested in research then find a faculty doing something you want to learn about. If you are unable to do that then find a hospital that offers you research oppt, or see as to what's happening with your undergrad professors. Do as well as you can with your education and see where that takes you. All the best
 
I thought DMD was just a midwest thing, like the ACT. Of course everyone knows that the ACT is a much superior test to the SAT.
 
Oh and I would rather go to kentucky than harvard - less competition plus I really like horse racing.
 
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