OMFS

[MightyHerro]

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How difficult is it to get into OMFS after dental school? I have shadowed an OMFS doctor for the last 5 months and absolutely love it (this is after shadowing a cardiologist, endocrinologist, and orthodontist). However, the doctor I shadow under was blunt and said only the top dental students get into OMFS. Is he just being egotistical or is that really how it is? Also, this doctor went to dental school and also has a MD... how does this work?

 

[caffeine jitters]

How difficult is it to get into OMFS after dental school? I have shadowed an OMFS doctor for the last 5 months and absolutely love it (this is after shadowing a cardiologist, endocrinologist, and orthodontist). However, the doctor I shadow under was blunt and said only the top dental students get into OMFS. Is he just being egotistical or is that really how it is? Also, this doctor went to dental school and also has a MD... how does this work?

Yes that is how it is in most cases. OMFS residencies value high class rank and scores on exams like the NBME CBSE. There are exceptions, but I would venture to say they are few and far between.

6 year OMFS residencies allow residents to obtain an MD, whereas a 4 year OMFS residency wouldn’t - but the person who did the 4 year residency is still an OMFS.

 

[MightyHerro]

Yes that is how it is in most cases. OMFS residencies value high class rank and scores on exams like the NBME CBSE. There are exceptions, but I would venture to say they are few and far between.

6 year OMFS residencies allow residents to obtain an MD, whereas a 4 year OMFS residency wouldn’t - but the person who did the 4 year residency is still an OMFS.

Then what is the drive to do a 6 year vs the 4 year besides being able to brag about also having a MD?? Also, the OMFS doctor I shadow works at a OMFS center with 6 doctors. Is it common for OMFS doctors to work at hospitals?

 

[fit2]

To answer the business question I think they can either work at hospitals or open their own business like a partnership or sole prioprietorship. It’s quite expensive but I shadowed one that had an amazing office. They just moved to an awesome location and that place is unreal. Took him quite a few years to get here (he’s in partnership)

 

[MightyHerro]

To answer the business question I think they can either work at hospitals or open their own business like a partnership or sole prioprietorship. It’s quite expensive but I shadowed one that had an amazing office. They just moved to an awesome location and that place is unreal. Took him quite a few years to get here (he’s in partnership)

How's the salary? I would expect more money to be made in private practice right? But do the OMFS that work in private practice get to deal with trauma cases?

 

[PhansterZ]

I’m a current OMFS resident. As for how competitive the application process, there are around 225 residency spots for OMFS for about 6000 dental school graduates. Assuming not all of the top students want to enter OMFS, many do, and a ranking in the top 10% would greatly increase your chances of matching. The other side of the equation is the CBSE, an extremely difficult exam that is similar to the USMLE step 1. If you don’t match, you can always do an internship to increase your chances, and with experience, programs can be more forgiving with your stats, especially 4 year programs.

As for salary, it depends. Academic salary start at around 250-300k right now, but it is a slow climb to 400. You receive awesome pensions, and you can also qualify for public service loan forgiveness. In private practice, you can associate out of residency for around 250, but it can climb exponentially if you partner or build your own practice. You can also be a traveling oral surgeon, where dentists collect patients for you, and you come by their office once every few weeks and collect 40-50% of the production. If you play your cards right, a million a year of net income is not out of the question.

As for MD vs Non-MD, I chose this route because I want to future proof myself while I pursue a career in academics. About half of the positions available right now are MD positions, where you complete an additional 2 years for your MD. There is no difference in procedures in what you can do from an MD vs non-MD oral surgeon, and hospital privileges are based on how qualify you are to perform that particular case. There are less applicants who apply for the MD route, but the standards are higher since many medical schools have a say on whether they will accept you, so you have to go through 2 screens, instead of just your OMFS program.

As for Trauma, it is not required for you to take call if you don’t want to. Although, taking a certain amount of call is necessary to be board eligible, which ensures that you keep updated on all the recent changes in OMFS. Some oral surgeons proudly display they are board certified, and it can give the public confidence that they are receiving the highest level of care.

I suggest you shadow an OMFS program, and even ask if you can observe them in the OR. Most of the Oral surgeons who work at the hospital is associated with a residency program.

 

[MightyHerro]

I’m a current OMFS resident. As for how competitive the application process, there are around 225 residency spots for OMFS for about 6000 dental school graduates. Assuming not all of the top students want to enter OMFS, many do, and a ranking in the top 10% would greatly increase your chances of matching. The other side of the equation is the CBSE, an extremely difficult exam that is similar to the USMLE step 1. If you don’t match, you can always do an internship to increase your chances, and with experience, programs can be more forgiving with your stats, especially 4 year programs.

As for salary, it depends. Academic salary start at around 250-300k right now, but it is a slow climb to 400. You receive awesome pensions, and you can also qualify for public service loan forgiveness. In private practice, you can associate out of residency for around 250, but it can climb exponentially if you partner or build your own practice. You can also be a traveling oral surgeon, where dentists collect patients for you, and you come by their office once every few weeks and collect 40-50% of the production. If you play your cards right, a million a year of net income is not out of the question.

As for MD vs Non-MD, I chose this route because I want to future proof myself while I pursue a career in academics. About half of the positions available right now are MD positions, where you complete an additional 2 years for your MD. There is no difference in procedures in what you can do from an MD vs non-MD oral surgeon, and hospital privileges are based on how qualify you are to perform that particular case. There are less applicants who apply for the MD route, but the standards are higher since many medical schools have a say on whether they will accept you, so you have to go through 2 screens, instead of just your OMFS program.

As for Trauma, it is not required for you to take call if you don’t want to. Although, taking a certain amount of call is necessary to be board eligible, which ensures that you keep updated on all the recent changes in OMFS. Some oral surgeons proudly display they are board certified, and it can give the public confidence that they are receiving the highest level of care.

I suggest you shadow an OMFS program, and even ask if you can observe them in the OR. Most of the Oral surgeons who work at the hospital is associated with a residency program.

Woow thanks for the very detailed response! Now I've been watching some youtube videos on OMFS and it seems as if the trauma work they do and even reconstruction overlaps a lot with what ENT doctors and even plastics do? Is OMFS a field now that is expanding into these other fields or are the videos a bit exaggerated?

 

[ncide]

Woow thanks for the very detailed response! Now I've been watching some youtube videos on OMFS and it seems as if the trauma work they do and even reconstruction overlaps a lot with what ENT doctors and even plastics do? Is OMFS a field now that is expanding into these other fields or are the videos a bit exaggerated?

Their work does overlap. At VCU the ENT residents do rotations with the OMFS residents and vice-versa. Saw an OMFS resident present their case on the reconstruction of an ear on a patient and saw ENT cases where they did OR/IF of mandibular fractures.

 

[PhansterZ]

One of the criteria for a hospital to be considered a Level 1 Trauma center is the presence of a dedicated facial trauma team that takes call 24/7. OMFS, Plastics and ENT are the only specialties that are able to perform reconstruction with facial trauma. Each residency program needs to train residents who will be comfortable performing facial trauma cases. The program I'm currently with split facial trauma with ENT, because there are no plastic surgery residency here. I have seen other programs split call every 3 days with an OMFS/ENT/plastics rotation. The fight for obtaining the privilege to take trauma call has simmered over the years, as reimbursements have dropped. It was a much bigger fight in the 70's and 80's when reimbursements were high, and a lot of programs try to get the footprint in the hospital.

The bread and butter of OMFS, includes the extractions of wisdom teeth and placement of implants (teeth and titanium). These procedures are extremely profitable, with lower risks, and around 80% of all OMFS eventually decides on practicing exclusively on this. There are some programs and fellowships that will expose you an expanded scope, such as cancer, crainiofacial and cosmetics. Although these fields are not as profitable, if you have a passion for it, then there are avenues for you to pursue it.

 

[MightyHerro]

One of the criteria for a hospital to be considered a Level 1 Trauma center is the presence of a dedicated facial trauma team that takes call 24/7. OMFS, Plastics and ENT are the only specialties that are able to perform reconstruction with facial trauma. Each residency program needs to train residents who will be comfortable performing facial trauma cases. The program I'm currently with split facial trauma with ENT, because there are no plastic surgery residency here. I have seen other programs split call every 3 days with an OMFS/ENT/plastics rotation. The fight for obtaining the privilege to take trauma call has simmered over the years, as reimbursements have dropped. It was a much bigger fight in the 70's and 80's when reimbursements were high, and a lot of programs try to get the footprint in the hospital.

The bread and butter of OMFS, includes the extractions of wisdom teeth and placement of implants (teeth and titanium). These procedures are extremely profitable, with lower risks, and around 80% of all OMFS eventually decides on practicing exclusively on this. There are some programs and fellowships that will expose you an expanded scope, such as cancer, crainiofacial and cosmetics. Although these fields are not as profitable, if you have a passion for it, then there are avenues for you to pursue it.

I can't thank you enough for the insight! Let me bother you a little more. I would rather focus on trauma, so OMFS or ENT would be both great choices. However, getting back to the bread and butter, which one would provide better money? (I would rather be a doctor that focuses on the trauma and more of the hospital emergency cases however)

I saw a video earlier today on youtube featuring Dr. Nigel Matthews and he spoke about a few of his cases (TMJ, etc) and I loved it!

 

[PhansterZ]

Both fields will provide enough money that you won't go starving. ENT and OMFS makes a similar income, and your income really depends on your location and the procedures you are able to do.

 

[MightyHerro]

Both fields will provide enough money that you won't go starving. ENT and OMFS makes a similar income, and your income really depends on your location and the procedures you are able to do.

Nice! Now I will be applying to dental school soon, would going to top ranked dental schools over lets just say my in state institution (cheaper) give me a better chance to place into OMFS?

 

[GimmeTheScalpel]

Nice! Now I will be applying to dental school soon, would going to top ranked dental schools over lets just say my in state institution (cheaper) give me a better chance to place into OMFS?

Just so you know, you shouldn't apply to dental school with the intention of matching into OMFS. If you don't end up doing OMFS you have to be OK with practicing dentistry. Keep in mind that 4 years of dental school is centered around performing dental procedures on mannequins and patients so if you don't actually like this then I would caution against applying to dental school. If you are interested in surgery, then it's in your best interest to apply to med school. There are more options for you to match into a general surgery residency program even with a below average Step 1 score. Again, I repeat: Do not apply to dental school if you are uncomfortable or uninterested in dentistry itself. It would be more wise to apply to medical school.

 

[MightyHerro]

Just so you know, you shouldn't apply to dental school with the intention of matching into OMFS. If you don't end up doing OMFS you have to be OK with practicing dentistry. Keep in mind that 4 years of dental school is centered around performing dental procedures on mannequins and patients so if you don't actually like this then I would caution against applying to dental school. If you are interested in surgery, then it's in your best interest to apply to med school. There are more options for you to match into a general surgery residency program even with a below average Step 1 score. Again, I repeat: Do not apply to dental school if you are uncomfortable or uninterested in dentistry itself. It would be more wise to apply to medical school.

I understand. Initially I shadowed an endodontist which sparked my interest in dentistry. However, I must admit OMFS took it to another level, from the basic wisdom teeth removals to the more trauma related cases. I suppose it wouldn't be possible to do OMFS after completing medical school right? I see where you are coming from though, and I am somewhat conflicted. Surgery would be more likely via medical school, but I am not entirely sure because it is the surgeries that I've seen OMFS do with jaws and teeth that got me the most interested in surgery.

 

[doctor.ee]

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