Matched to my #1 ranked OMFS program AMA

[bergus95]

Got a lot of time on my hands. Happy to pay it forward.

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[deleted1070139]

 

[3wwe1]

I’m going into dental school about to start D1 in a couple of weeks. What are some things I can do to match omfs?

 

[bergus95]

I’m going into dental school about to start D1 in a couple of weeks. What are some things I can do to match omfs?

This is obviously dependent on the school. Going to a P/F school made the first aspect for me easier since I had no class rank, but this is perhaps the first thing to do, don't sink. Stay afloat and make sure you are keeping your grades high. Generally OS likes to see people in the top 25% of their class. The higher the better.

Get involved. Its never too early to show interest in the field. That this is what you want to do. IMO its never to late to show interest and have your name be known - gradually and not aggressively which will turn people off. Get to know the residents and faculty, at least to where they recognize your face. You do not want to be that guy/girl asking for a letter of recommendation your 3rd year and no one knows your name.

Most importantly, start on the CBSE grind. Its never too early contrary to some belief and a lot of the biomedical science curriculum from D1 year blends in with the USMLE. So nice to tackle it when it is fresh. Again, if you have time and it is not getting in the way of your class rank. The students who scored the highest this past year started in their first year/the summer between 1st and 2nd year.

Realize the OMFS is not for everyone, even if you think you know your 1st year. For a number of reasons, the majority who go in gung ho don't make it. For reference, my class had approximately 15-20 who at one point or another wanted to make it with only a handful actually matching. The predominant reason was not making the cut for the CBSE or not being able to take it at all. Be openminded to general dentistry and other dental specialties.

Remember to have fun and just be normal. Dental School will leave you with lifelong friends in a fun city. Have some experiences to look back on.

 

[Dr Dimbsa]

Congrats! I’m a D1 also at a P/F school. I’ve been toying with the idea of starting to study for the CBSE but I don’t want to make that decision unless I’m 100% set on applying OS. How did you know you wanted to go into OS and when did you make that decision? Did you put thought into other specialties/GP? Thanks!

 

[bergus95]

Congrats! I’m a D1 also at a P/F school. I’ve been toying with the idea of starting to study for the CBSE but I don’t want to make that decision unless I’m 100% set on applying OS. How did you know you wanted to go into OS and when did you make that decision? Did you put thought into other specialties/GP? Thanks!

That makes sense. That exam takes 100% commitment. Having one foot in and one foot out will not get you very far. I wish you luck in your decision.

I always knew I wanted OS as soon as I was a Pre-Dent. Private Practice had a great work-life balance, high income, and most importantly engaging work every day. I explored other specialties and GP, but it didn't fit what I was looking for in my career. Everyone looks for different things.

My advice: go look at what the 50/60 yr/old practitioner in your hometown is doing in a given specialty/GP and ask yourself can you see yourself doing that? How is his/her lifestyle? What does their workday look like?

 

[Teeth and Titanite]

How many weeks of externing do you recommend? Did you extern during your school breaks? Was your school easygoing with letting you extern when class was in session?

 

[slimdentshady]

what dental school did you go to? also you said to get involved. in what ways do you mean? like research?

 

[bergus95]

How many weeks of externing do you recommend? Did you extern during your school breaks? Was your school easygoing with letting you extern when class was in session?

As many as you can. I would recommend 5+, with your last two being your top programs. Generally speaking as long as you meet the CBSE requirements and are well received, you will be interviewed at the programs you have externed in. I did go through my breaks. My school was not easy going, and especially with COVID you have to take whatever opportunity you can get.

 

[bergus95]

what dental school did you go to? also you said to get involved. in what ways do you mean? like research?

Research is the most obvious way. Shadowing is another. Helping out the non-cat or the interns is another. The residents and faculty talk, and when your name comes up good things should be said about you. If your school has an oral surgery club or a journal club for oral surgery those are other ways to get your foot in the door to be able to reach out to faculty.

 

[DMD12345]

What made you rank this program #1? How was your time externing at the different programs? What was your interview like?

 

[bergus95]

What made you rank this program #1? How was your time externing at the different programs? What was your interview like?

What made you rank this program #1?

The scope of practice, the people, and the location. It is what I wanted my residency experience to look like that mattered most to me. You'll find that programs tend to have certain niches and reputations. I was not looking for cancer and wanted a program that would prepare me well for a private practice setting. There were a few programs that were talked about that had that well rounded experience and were busy with high implant numbers, sedation experience that more than met the minimums, and solid orthognathic/trauma experience. I did not want cancer, and I was partial to certain areas in the US.

How was your time externing at the different programs?

I had an amazing time and it helped better answer that first question. I explored 4 and 6 year programs and figured out that answer. I came to decide that cancer was not for me, and I also appreciated culture in programs. OMFS attracts a wide array of personalities. Whether it be 4 or 6 years, you'll want a learning environment where you feel like you "fit" in

What was your interview like?

Interviews were generally the same. Several breakout rooms. Interview with the PD and/or chair one on one or faculty panel style with a couple of them vs you. Interview with rising chiefs/upper level residents. Interview with lower level residents. Med Schools generally had a medical school interview portion which was also chill. Questions you would expect. Tell me about yourself. Why you? What made you want to pursue OS? Why 4 vs. 6? Generally the interviews were to get to know you and if you fit in. Programs run 1-5 residents deep, and you'll be a problem/fun to have around for a long time. They seemed to just wanted to know if you were "chill" and a "hard worker." Also you represent that program for a lifetime. I guess all things to keep in mind.

 

[DMD12345]

What made you rank this program #1?

The scope of practice, the people, and the location. It is what I wanted my residency experience to look like that mattered most to me. You'll find that programs tend to have certain niches and reputations. I was not looking for cancer and wanted a program that would prepare me well for a private practice setting. There were a few programs that were talked about that had that well rounded experience and were busy with high implant numbers, sedation experience that more than met the minimums, and solid orthognathic/trauma experience. I did not want cancer, and I was partial to certain areas in the US.

How was your time externing at the different programs?

I had an amazing time and it helped better answer that first question. I explored 4 and 6 year programs and figured out that answer. I came to decide that cancer was not for me, and I also appreciated culture in programs. OMFS attracts a wide array of personalities. Whether it be 4 or 6 years, you'll want a learning environment where you feel like you "fit" in

What was your interview like?

Interviews were generally the same. Several breakout rooms. Interview with the PD and/or chair one on one or faculty panel style with a couple of them vs you. Interview with rising chiefs/upper level residents. Interview with lower level residents. Med Schools generally had a medical school interview portion which was also chill. Questions you would expect. Tell me about yourself. Why you? What made you want to pursue OS? Why 4 vs. 6? Generally the interviews were to get to know you and if you fit in. Programs run 1-5 residents deep, and you'll be a problem/fun to have around for a long time. They seemed to just wanted to know if you were "chill" and a "hard worker." Also you represent that program for a lifetime. I guess all things to keep in mind.

Did you match at a place that you had externed? If not, were you able to get a strong sense of the program and its people over a virtual interview? Also, there seems to be a general trend that you receive interviews from the places you externed; did that hold true for you?

Thanks for answering and good luck in residency 💪🏻 especially that intern year haha

 

[bergus95]

Did you match at a place that you had externed? If not, were you able to get a strong sense of the program and its people over a virtual interview? Also, there seems to be a general trend that you receive interviews from the places you externed; did that hold true for you?

Thanks for answering and good luck in residency 💪🏻 especially that intern year haha

It was really hard to extern at my top ranked programs since I applied during the pandemic. but I matched into the program I had my eyes on since I basically started dental school. I did get interviews at the other programs I externed at, which is generally the case. Show interest and you will be more than fine.

Thank you!

 

[DMD12345]

It was really hard to extern at my top ranked programs since I applied during the pandemic. but I matched into the program I had my eyes on since I basically started dental school. I did get interviews at the other programs I externed at, which is generally the case. Show interest and you will be more than fine.

Thank you!

Oh wow so you matched your initial #1 program not just the program ranked 1 out of your interview invites. Congrats that’s awesome!

 

[bergus95]

Oh wow so you matched your initial #1 program not just the program ranked 1 out of your interview invites. Congrats that’s awesome!

thank you!

 

[zdoq]

Any advice for someone who is going to a graded + ranked school? If it comes to it, what would be more useful to prioritize: CBSE score or class rank?

 

[bergus95]

Any advice for someone who is going to a graded + ranked school? If it comes to it, what would be more useful to prioritize: CBSE score or class rank?

Work hard, get a good class rank, focus that first year on your grades, and have fun.

It’s a tough one. "Both" would be the easy answer, and you can compensate for one by doing extraordinarily well on the other.

You can always retake the CBSE and perform better so I would lay more focus on class rank I suppose. You can't have one without the other. Getting a 85 on your CBSE and being in the bottom quartile will be hard to explain just as much as being ranking #2 in your class and having a 52. Balance is the key. Be in the top 10% and get a 75 on the CBSE and you should be golden.

 

[Genki Ipponjin]

What made you rank this program #1?

The scope of practice, the people, and the location. It is what I wanted my residency experience to look like that mattered most to me. You'll find that programs tend to have certain niches and reputations. I was not looking for cancer and wanted a program that would prepare me well for a private practice setting. There were a few programs that were talked about that had that well rounded experience and were busy with high implant numbers, sedation experience that more than met the minimums, and solid orthognathic/trauma experience. I did not want cancer, and I was partial to certain areas in the US.

How was your time externing at the different programs?

I had an amazing time and it helped better answer that first question. I explored 4 and 6 year programs and figured out that answer. I came to decide that cancer was not for me, and I also appreciated culture in programs. OMFS attracts a wide array of personalities. Whether it be 4 or 6 years, you'll want a learning environment where you feel like you "fit" in

What was your interview like?

Interviews were generally the same. Several breakout rooms. Interview with the PD and/or chair one on one or faculty panel style with a couple of them vs you. Interview with rising chiefs/upper level residents. Interview with lower level residents. Med Schools generally had a medical school interview portion which was also chill. Questions you would expect. Tell me about yourself. Why you? What made you want to pursue OS? Why 4 vs. 6? Generally the interviews were to get to know you and if you fit in. Programs run 1-5 residents deep, and you'll be a problem/fun to have around for a long time. They seemed to just wanted to know if you were "chill" and a "hard worker." Also you represent that program for a lifetime. I guess all things to keep in mind.

In terms of learning more about a specific residency's "scope," where were you able to find information about the respective programs and their numbers and focus? Did you reach out to programs directly?

 

[DMD12345]

Oh I have another question. So a lot of places offer you to extern for a number of weeks of your choosing most commonly between 1 and 2. Does doing a 2-week externship somewhere carry more weight or should we shoot for quantity and do 2 one-week externships instead. I'm thinking to do a 2-week externship at my number 1 program then do as many 1 week externships as I can, or do you think it doesn't matter and I should just do all 1-weeks?

 

[bergus95]

In terms of learning more about a specific residency's "scope," where were you able to find information about the respective programs and their numbers and focus? Did you reach out to programs directly?

I think that the worst mistake you can make is asking a program "for their numbers"

A couple of programs may not say anything about it, or even care. Most will think you are too high on your horse. Most of us applying barely know what a class 2 is and now we're asking them to produce their numbers.

SDN and residents at that program are a great resource. I think a quick SDN search will give you a little overview of a program. If you have interest in a program, either because of its reputation or its geography, you can always reach out to residents via email/social media. Everyone seems to take pride in their program.

I found that reaching out to residents at my home program that I had built a relationship with seemed to know residents at programs I was interested in. It's a small world out there.

 

[bergus95]

Oh I have another question. So a lot of places offer you to extern for a number of weeks of your choosing most commonly between 1 and 2. Does doing a 2-week externship somewhere carry more weight or should we shoot for quantity and do 2 one-week externships instead. I'm thinking to do a 2-week externship at my number 1 program then do as many 1 week externships as I can, or do you think it doesn't matter and I should just do all 1-weeks?

Doing a 2 week externship is a blessing and a curse. Yes it carries more weight, and you will be remembered more but that isn't necessarily a good thing. You can very easily overstay your welcome, be a bit annoying, or are more prone to a screwup that is remembered.

I think 1 week is that sweet spot where everything is nice and lighthearted, you are welcomed. They get a jest for you and you for them. Also, going to 2 separate programs opens up the door to you having potentially 2 interviews instead of 1 in programs you are interested in. More externships looks good on your resume, especially diverse ones.

If you have fallen in love with a program, you can always go again for another week closer to interviews to make that lasting impression. They will definitely remember you then.

 

[DMD12345]

Doing a 2 week externship is a blessing and a curse. Yes it carries more weight, and you will be remembered more but that isn't necessarily a good thing. You can very easily overstay your welcome, be a bit annoying, or are more prone to a screwup that is remembered.

I think 1 week is that sweet spot where everything is nice and lighthearted, you are welcomed. They get a jest for you and you for them. Also, going to 2 separate programs opens up the door to you having potentially 2 interviews instead of 1 in programs you are interested in. More externships looks good on your resume, especially diverse ones.

If you have fallen in love with a program, you can always go again for another week closer to interviews to make that lasting impression. They will definitely remember you then.

Those are some great points!

 

[sditty70]

Hey congrats!!! (especially applying throughout the pandemic!)

what did you use to study for the cbse? and when would you recommend taking it?

 

[bergus95]

Hey congrats!!! (especially applying throughout the pandemic!)

what did you use to study for the cbse? and when would you recommend taking it?

I would recommend taking it as soon as you possibly can. You can take it up to 5 times. So ideally in the summer after 1st year to know what you are in for. Twice 2nd year (if needed) and you have 2 more shots 3rd year, again if needed.

UFAP should be your core. I found Boards and Beyond to be a good foundation to learn First Aid. Pathoma was easy to digest. Uworld you should go through 2-3 times and have it engrained in your head and we’ll understood.

Sketchymicro is great for micro and people found anki to help them since it was a good flashcard resource.

moral of the story, a combination of the above and a TON of time will yield success.

this is the biggest barrier to getting into the best gig in medicine or dentistry, so give it your all!

 

[sditty70]

I would recommend taking it as soon as you possibly can. You can take it up to 5 times. So ideally in the summer after 1st year to know what you are in for. Twice 2nd year (if needed) and you have 2 more shots 3rd year, again if needed.

UFAP should be your core. I found Boards and Beyond to be a good foundation to learn First Aid. Pathoma was easy to digest. Uworld you should go through 2-3 times and have it engrained in your head and we’ll understood.

Sketchymicro is great for micro and people found anki to help them since it was a good flashcard resource.

moral of the story, a combination of the above and a TON of time will yield success.

this is the biggest barrier to getting into the best gig in medicine or dentistry, so give it your all!

you're awesome!! Thanks so much. Good luck!

 

[Ivy.ch]

Got a lot of time on my hands. Happy to pay it forward.

Where you off to next year? DM me if you prefer.

 

[bergus95]

Where you off to next year? DM me if you prefer.

I think you messaged me privately a while back. A well regarded 4 year program is as much as I’d like to say to maintain my privacy.

 

[teefdr]

Hi! thanks for this thread! I just applied to dental schools this cycle, and I'm entertaining the idea of becoming an OMFS. I already have FA from my med school friend. Do you think it's a good idea to start Boards and Beyond in my last year of undergrad, and try to at least familiarize myself with First Aid? My goal is to work my a$$ off and take it after D1. My senior year of undergrad I'll be taking 12 credits/semester so I will have a couple of hours a day to dedicate to FA.

I would recommend taking it as soon as you possibly can. You can take it up to 5 times. So ideally in the summer after 1st year to know what you are in for. Twice 2nd year (if needed) and you have 2 more shots 3rd year, again if needed.

UFAP should be your core. I found Boards and Beyond to be a good foundation to learn First Aid. Pathoma was easy to digest. Uworld you should go through 2-3 times and have it engrained in your head and we’ll understood.

Sketchymicro is great for micro and people found anki to help them since it was a good flashcard resource.

moral of the story, a combination of the above and a TON of time will yield success.

this is the biggest barrier to getting into the best gig in medicine or dentistry, so give it your all!

 

[bergus95]

Hi! thanks for this thread! I just applied to dental schools this cycle, and I'm entertaining the idea of becoming an OMFS. I already have FA from my med school friend. Do you think it's a good idea to start Boards and Beyond in my last year of undergrad, and try to at least familiarize myself with First Aid? My senior year I'll be taking 12 credits/semester so I will have a couple of hours a day to dedicate to FA.

I think it’s a great idea, the earlier you can tackle this exam the better. Many people I know started in their first year and scores very well between first and 2nd year. It will only help with some your didactics first year as well.

 

[teefdr]

Awesome! Thank you so much. I'll buy BB 2 years subscription then in August. I'm also taking microbio in the Fall so I want to reference FA simultaneously.

 

[bergus95]

Awesome! Thank you so much. I'll buy BB 2 years subscription then in August. I'm also taking microbio in the Fall so I want to reference FA simultaneously.

Use Sketchymicro, even my non-omfs classmates loved it!

 

[TopDog]

Congrats on your acceptance! How important would you say being involved in clubs and other extracurriculars would be? I come from a P/F school (unranked) and have a mid-70 CBSE score.

 

[bergus95]

Congrats on your acceptance! How important would you say being involved in clubs and other extracurriculars would be? I come from a P/F school (unranked) and have a mid-70 CBSE score.

Just have something to talk about and be well liked. It’s hard to say, you have to have things to talk about. But stats wise you are definitely there. OMFS programs want confident leaders. You don’t have to be the President of AAOMS or have some cutting edge leaders. But you should represent the program and profession well.
Long story short, it can be important or not very important. It just depends on how you come off and most importantly the rest of your application (letters).

 

[bergus95]

Good luck guys, residency has started. Nerve wracking but super fun

 

[Chicago_predental]

Good luck guys, residency has started. Nerve wracking but super fun

this thread was very motivating! I am currently assisting in an OMFS group practice, and it is starting to become a specialty that I am considering more so than before

 

[LegendaryPanda]

Thanks for the thread!

Did you make a tough decision between 4 year and 6 year programs? I'm having a dilemma on what to pursue. I feel like 4 years would be faster and would make me more money in the long run, but I also thought about the opportunities like fellowships if I were to pursue the MD route. I wanted to work in trauma and/or do the bigger surgeries like even head and neck cancers but I know the best financial option is 4 years and start doing wizzies and implants ASAP. I just don't know if that's what I want. Alternatively, I could do the bigger surgeries as a 4 year, but it might be harder to get into fellowships is what I heard. That said, I can't also be so selfish and not think about my family because I also realize that debt will be worse as a 6 year and I will not have time for my kids (planning for 1 in the next year), etc.

Right now I'm 30 years old and am a D3 and will be planning to start a family in 1 year meaning if I happen to match next year, I will be having residency with a kid at that point, do you think it matters whether I take an extra 2 years or not? Do you have any co-residents that have kids and or families?

How much debt will you be in? I'm estimating 650k for 4 year and 850k for 6 year for me when I finish. Have you thought about how you would deal with it? I'm thinking of doing IBR so I can have a better lifestyle.

Again, thanks!

 

[Ivy.ch]

Thanks for the thread!

Did you make a tough decision between 4 year and 6 year programs? I'm having a dilemma on what to pursue. I feel like 4 years would be faster and would make me more money in the long run, but I also thought about the opportunities like fellowships if I were to pursue the MD route. I wanted to work in trauma and/or do the bigger surgeries like even head and neck cancers but I know the best financial option is 4 years and start doing wizzies and implants ASAP. I just don't know if that's what I want. Alternatively, I could do the bigger surgeries as a 4 year, but it might be harder to get into fellowships is what I heard. That said, I can't also be so selfish and not think about my family because I also realize that debt will be worse as a 6 year and I will not have time for my kids (planning for 1 in the next year), etc.

Right now I'm 30 years old and am a D3 and will be planning to start a family in 1 year meaning if I happen to match next year, I will be having residency with a kid at that point, do you think it matters whether I take an extra 2 years or not? Do you have any co-residents that have kids and or families?

How much debt will you be in? I'm estimating 650k for 4 year and 850k for 6 year for me when I finish. Have you thought about how you would deal with it? I'm thinking of doing IBR so I can have a better lifestyle.

Again, thanks!

Do the 4-year. 2 extra years is a big deal when we’re already getting older. Plus, you don’t want to go into even more debt for medical school. Also, you’re not going to do a fellowship. Very few do. Even if you decide you MUST, you can find a way to do it without the MD. Especially at your age, I really doubt you would do a fellowship.

If you have kids, I recommend the 4-year even more.

If you do IBR, that might limit your practice situation. Plus, then you can’t refinance. From what I’ve read, for surgeons, the advice is NOT to do IBR for these reasons, but do your own research. Especially with kids, that makes debt more difficult to pay back, which supports my argument for the 4-year.

 

[LegendaryPanda]

Do the 4-year. 2 extra years is a big deal when we’re already getting older. Plus, you don’t want to go into even more debt for medical school. Also, you’re not going to do a fellowship. Very few do. Even if you decide you MUST, you can find a way to do it without the MD. Especially at your age, I really doubt you would do a fellowship.

If you have kids, I recommend the 4-year even more.

If you do IBR, that might limit your practice situation. Plus, then you can’t refinance. From what I’ve read, for surgeons, the advice is NOT to do IBR for these reasons, but do your own research. Especially with kids, that makes debt more difficult to pay back, which supports my argument for the 4-year.

Appreciate the input. Forgive me for being ignorant, I'm not too knowledgeable on the scope of 4 years compared to scope of 6 years, but I have heard that there is no difference in scope unless you want to do head and neck, craniofacial. That said, those are pretty interesting to me. Do you think I would be able to do those as a 4 year without a fellowship? Perhaps with some CE, etc?

 

[Ivy.ch]

Appreciate the input. Forgive me for being ignorant, I'm not too knowledgeable on the scope of 4 years compared to scope of 6 years, but I have heard that there is no difference in scope unless you want to do head and neck, craniofacial. That said, those are pretty interesting to me. Do you think I would be able to do those as a 4 year without a fellowship? Perhaps with some CE, etc?

There’s not really CE for surgery like how you’re imagining it. It depends on whether the program trains you for those procedures or not.

Very few people do those procedures in the real world because they require huge amounts of time (pre and post-op), they increase liability, and they don’t pay anything close to practice procedures.

I’m not saying you couldn’t. But most do not.

 

[DMD12345]

There’s not really CE for surgery like how you’re imagining it. It depends on whether the program trains you for those procedures or not.

Very few people do those procedures in the real world because they require huge amounts of time (pre and post-op), they increase liability, and they don’t pay anything close to practice procedures.

I’m not saying you couldn’t. But most do not.

Do orthognathics pay close to 3rds and implants?

 

[Ivy.ch]

Do orthognathics pay close to 3rds and implants?

As I understand it, no.

 

[Likkriue]

Any nasty lacs yet?