Omicron

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We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes

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Have we finally reached the other side of the pendulum? We started with a deadly disease that we knew nothing about, and the crazies were most likely those that wanted to do absolutely nothing to protect themselves.

Then as time progressed it seemed to be a fairly balanced argument, freedom vs a lesser public health threat, risks of shut downs and mandates vs unsure benefits, etc.

Now I feel we have completely finished the swing the other way to the other extreme such as unnecessary mandates, fines, job firings, and some school and business closures for what is more and more looking like a glorified cold that, besides being pretty harmless, isn't going to be stopped as it is extremely contagious.

Over 98% of Corona infections are now Omicron.
Out of 52,000 in one hospital system ZERO needed a ventilator.

Protect the vulnerable. Let everyone else for the most part go back to living their life as they choose regarding what they want to do to protect themselves. It's time... at least for now with this variant.
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I don't know the breakdown of variants in our system (Omicron v Delta), but our ICUs are full. We are down to our last few ventilators. Nursing ratios are through the roof. Patients are boarded for days in our ERs. Lots of elective surgeries cancelled. Lots of our staff are infected.

Not sure of the value or the morality or the legality of the mandates, BUT GET THE DAMN SHOT. WEAR THE DAMN MASK.

If you don't....well I'll still do my best for you. But I will not mourn your horrible ICU course or your passing.
 
dr doze said:
I don't know the breakdown of variants in our system (Omicron v Delta), but our ICUs are full. We are down to our last few ventilators. Nursing ratios are through the roof. Patients are boarded for days in our ERs. Lots of elective surgeries cancelled. Lots of our staff are infected.

Not sure of the value or the morality or the legality of the mandates, BUT GET THE DAMN SHOT. WEAR THE DAMN MASK.

If you don't....well I'll still do my best for you. But I will not mourn your horrible ICU course or your passing.
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Wow, that experience just doesn't match the data I've read. And it's NYT, not Alex Jones. Very interesting. Would I be correct to say they have risk factors? I'm vaccinated x 3, but from seeing this data figured we're at the point where non-risk factor patients are a vent rarity even without a vaccine.

www.nytimes.com

California hospitals find that Omicron causes fewer hospitalizations and shorter stays. (Published 2022)

Out of more than 52,000 patients infected with Omicron, not one went on a ventilator, the study found.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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dr doze said:
I don't know the breakdown of variants in our system (Omicron v Delta), but our ICUs are full. We are down to our last few ventilators. Nursing ratios are through the roof. Patients are boarded for days in our ERs. Lots of elective surgeries cancelled. Lots of our staff are infected.

Not sure of the value or the morality or the legality of the mandates, BUT GET THE DAMN SHOT. WEAR THE DAMN MASK.

If you don't....well I'll still do my best for you. But I will not mourn your horrible ICU course or your passing.
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Deaths are half of delta peak but still over 2000/day. We’re not on the other side of anything.

0BC753AA-D1E7-443A-AC0D-0EDA219D7474.jpeg
FA5682B8-20F6-45BE-A3A8-D17BE7B35427.png
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
Have we finally reached the other side of the pendulum? We started with a deadly disease that we knew nothing about, and the crazies were most likely those that wanted to do absolutely nothing to protect themselves.

Then as time progressed it seemed to be a fairly balanced argument, freedom vs a lesser public health threat, risks of shut downs and mandates vs unsure benefits, etc.

Now I feel we have completely finished the swing the other way to the other extreme such as unnecessary mandates, fines, job firings, and some school and business closures for what is more and more looking like a glorified cold that, besides being pretty harmless, isn't going to be stopped as it is extremely contagious.

Over 98% of Corona infections are now Omicron.
Out of 52,000 in one hospital system ZERO needed a ventilator.

Protect the vulnerable. Let everyone else for the most part go back to living their life as they choose regarding what they want to do to protect themselves. It's time... at least for now with this variant.
Click to expand...

How are you not taking into account the burnout rates of healthcare workers for the past two years, the overwhelming burden on hospital systems across the world for the past two years, the overwhelming amount of unnecessary deaths for the past two years due to this virus and its variants, and the overwhelming possibility that this virus mutates again (already happening, btw), possibly into a more contagious and more deadly strain?

You really think this is all going to end at omicron, and everybody lives happily ever after? Okay.

Not to mention the (unknown) long term effects of having COVID.
 
anaesthetic said:
You really think this is all going to end at omicron, and everybody lives happily ever after? Okay.
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Read my last sentence. It implies my answer is no. But for a large majority of people AT PRESENT without risk factors, there appears to not be a whole lot of juice to this variant.

I mean, zero for 52,000, even Shaq made free throws at a higher rate. It's gotta mean something, right?
 
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nimbus said:
Deaths are half of delta peak but still over 2000/day. We’re not on the other side of anything.

View attachment 348317View attachment 348318
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Deaths do lag a good 3 to 4 weeks, so we'll have to watch and see. I still think Omicron has great potential. Virtually everybody will be exposed to it no matter how many masks are worn and the volume of Purell baths. It apparently isn't particularly dangerous and could possibly have great potential to achieve the holy grail of "herd immunity" or maybe something close to that.
 
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We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
Read my last sentence. It implies my answer is no. But for a large majority of people AT PRESENT without risk factors, there appears to not be a whole lot of juice to this variant.
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So your argument is that because THIS variant “isn’t that bad,” we should live and let live.

I’m not sure how you think we got these variants in the first place, but I don’t think the answer is to make the country a giant petri dish and have everybody cough on each other in close proximity (like we’ve been doing for the past few months).

And yes, we are once again overwhelmed at my hospital with patients waiting in the ED for inpatient beds, cancelling elective surgeries, losing OR staff to contract jobs, losing manpower due to burnout/pay/COVID, etc. It’s like we haven’t learned anything for the past two years, and we have our own physicians defending illogical drivel to confirm their own biases. Not coming at anyone in particular as I’ve heard the same conversations at work. It gets old fast.
 
anaesthetic said:
So your argument is that because THIS variant “isn’t that bad,” we should live and let live.

I’m not sure how you think we got these variants in the first place, but I don’t think the answer is to make the country a giant petri dish and have everybody cough on each other in close proximity (like we’ve been doing for the past few months).

And yes, we are once again overwhelmed at my hospital with patients waiting in the ED for inpatient beds, cancelling elective surgeries, losing OR staff to contract jobs, losing manpower due to burnout/pay/COVID, etc. It’s like we haven’t learned anything for the past two years, and we have our own physicians defending illogical drivel to confirm their own biases. Not coming at anyone in particular as I’ve heard the same conversations at work. It gets old fast.
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The sentiment is, “I’m sick of Covid. Let her rip!!”” Even though the actual situation is as bad as it’s always been.
 
anaesthetic said:
So your argument is that because THIS variant “isn’t that bad,” we should live and let live.

I’m not sure how you think we got these variants in the first place, but I don’t think the answer is to make the country a giant petri dish and have everybody cough on each other in close proximity (like we’ve been doing for the past few months).

And yes, we are once again overwhelmed at my hospital with patients waiting in the ED for inpatient beds, cancelling elective surgeries, losing OR staff to contract jobs, losing manpower due to burnout/pay/COVID, etc. It’s like we haven’t learned anything for the past two years, and we have our own physicians defending illogical drivel to confirm their own biases. Not coming at anyone in particular as I’ve heard the same conversations at work, and it gets old fast.
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They're is no perfect answer, but yes I do feel schools and businesses can't be closed forever and at some point (now in my opinion) that risk outweighs the disease risk.

Realize that your own drivel is defending your own bias as well in that you live with this disease up close and personal far greater than society as a whole so your perspective will be more narrow.
 
nimbus said:
The sentiment is, “I’m sick of Covid. Let her rip!!”” Even though the actual situation is as bad as it’s always been.
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I'm thinking it's most likely going to be let er rip whether we want it to or not because it's more contagious to an exponential degree. Also I'm not so sure it's as bad as ever. It will take extremely large numbers of cases to produce the same bad results, and at that speed of transmission the spike shouldn't in theory last nearly as long.

Other than vaccines and therapeutics, which I'm for, I really don't think there's a whole lot that can be done to slow this down short of being welded in your house as they were doing in China.
 
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Realistically, there isn't much we can do. Can't force the vaccine and can't lock people down.

A significant portion of the population will not get vaccinated. I see it daily in the outpatient and inpatient setting from patients to nurses.

This fact alone will continue to allow COVID to run rampant.

When I tell patients to get vaccinated against COVID at this point, I get a no thanks. These are the same patients who apparently trust me enough to cut them open but vaccination is too much. There is no logical reason at this point.

The numbers are impressive in Southern California and the hospitals are starting to feel it but it isn't as bad as last winter. We are testing everyone and a significant number are asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic positive.
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
Have we finally reached the other side for what is more and more looking like a glorified cold that, besides being pretty harmless, isn't going to be stopped as it is extremely contagious.

Over 98% of Corona infections are now Omicron.
Out of 52,000 in one hospital system ZERO needed a vent
Click to expand...
Lucky you. Are you sure though?

Our hospitals are full, icu is in pacu, elective suegery cannned for a month.

Seems like a flu to me. I agree
 
Still facing full icus in the northeast. Unable to do cases requiring ICU admission and occasionally boarding vented post-op patients in our anesthesia recovery area.

I don’t think we will be over this thing until the incidence of severe Covid really starts to flatten and morbidity/mortality becomes more steady state. Even then we will be left with lingering effects of long Covid, healthcare worker shortages, and economic damage.

That said successful viruses probably have an evolutionary pressure to become less lethal and more virulent so here’s to hoping!
21833566-5792-4169-B2C4-3D62833EAB04.jpeg
 
a difference with Omicron compared to previous waves seems to be far more staffing shortages because of staff needing to stay out of work because of covid as opposed to sheer volume of patients in hospital. We have more of a bed shortage than a patient overload, at least near me.
 
I typed something similar to the other thread about Ivermectin, but never posted it.

I am sick of the right saying that schools need to get back on track, and at the same time promoting this my freedom, my right narrative. Making the teachers the bad people.
My sister is a special Ed teacher, who works with severely disabled kids. Any of them who gets COVID, they will likely be dead. She doesn’t want to go back, before she doesn’t want to be the potential cause of their death. Some of her colleagues are older, who understandably doesn’t want to be infected or dead.

This is ON those doesn’t want to get vaccinated. If we actually had this disease in control, yes, the country would be in a much better shape.

We sort of knock on China for their crazy policies. I absolutely don’t agree. I would think we are more “advanced” in some way. IIRC, a segment in NPR something about their economy IS in better shape, because they were able to restart much faster and not divert some of their resources fighting COVID in the general population.
 
IMGASMD said:
a segment in NPR something about their economy IS in better shape, because they were able to restart much faster and not divert some of their resources fighting COVID in the general population.
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there is very little objective data about China's economy. it is essentially all just propaganda. For years, their quarterly growth numbers were like a metronome of consistency which is essentially impossible.
 
I hear a lot about how because omicron is milder than delta, then the virus must be evolving toward less and less severe (which was predicted earlier in the pandemic based the behavior of prior coronaviruses). The problem is that no one has published anything credible showing that omicron actually IS milder, save for the obvious population-level observation that because more people are vaccinated, the aggregate severity is lower. IOW, for the unvaccinated, there is no indication that this is milder than any other variant, and I've personally cared for a handful of (admittedly, elderly) unvaccinated patients who have died. Furthermore, there is no real reason to suggest that upcoming variants will be any milder; these mutations are random and, yes, probably, over generations, it will get milder and milder, but that would take years. And/but, no, we can't keep society closed forever. This piece by a colleague here at UCSF, Bob Wachter, is thoughtful and rational.

www.sfgate.com

Why UCSF's Bob Wachter will soon join team 'Vaxxed and Done'

SFGATE spoke to Wachter about the reaction to his “Vaxxed and Done” tweet.
www.sfgate.com www.sfgate.com
 
cchoukal said:
I hear a lot about how because omicron is milder than delta, then the virus must be evolving toward less and less severe (which was predicted earlier in the pandemic based the behavior of prior coronaviruses). The problem is that no one has published anything credible showing that omicron actually IS milder, save for the obvious population-level observation that because more people are vaccinated, the aggregate severity is lower. IOW, for the unvaccinated, there is no indication that this is milder than any other variant, and I've personally cared for a handful of (admittedly, elderly) unvaccinated patients who have died. Furthermore, there is no real reason to suggest that upcoming variants will be any milder; these mutations are random and, yes, probably, over generations, it will get milder and milder, but that would take years. And/but, no, we can't keep society closed forever. This piece by a colleague here at UCSF, Bob Wachter, is thoughtful and rational.

www.sfgate.com

Why UCSF's Bob Wachter will soon join team 'Vaxxed and Done'

SFGATE spoke to Wachter about the reaction to his “Vaxxed and Done” tweet.
www.sfgate.com www.sfgate.com
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Saw this the other day.
www.medrxiv.org

Outcomes of laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection in the Omicron-driven fourth wave compared with previous waves in the Western Cape Province, South Africa

Objectives We aimed to compare COVID-19 outcomes in the Omicron-driven fourth wave with prior waves in the Western Cape, the contribution of undiagnosed prior infection to differences in outcomes in a context of high seroprevalence due to prior infection, and whether protection against severe...
www.medrxiv.org www.medrxiv.org

“after adjusting for both vaccination and prior diagnosed infection."
"Our data suggests that severe outcomes could be reduced by approximately 25% due to intrinsically reduced virulence of Omicron."
 
PpfSuxTube said:
Lucky you. Are you sure though?

Our hospitals are full, icu is in pacu, elective suegery cannned for a month.

Seems like a flu to me. I agree
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Yeah something doesn't add up with the data:
Over 98% Omicron, zero out of 52,000 Omicron vents, yet 1000 deaths per day. Are there all lagging Delta cases that were logged in a month ago? Are there really 1000 deaths a day caused by Corona, not just coincidentally had Corona? Are the 52,000 a certain subgroup? Seems to me some key information is missing.
 
Died because of covid?
Died with covid?

Two key questions that the government fails to publish and has avoided for the last two years.

Furthermore, look at the NYT vaccination data. I if I recall correctly, 80% of 18+ have received one shot at minimum... That's pretty damn high. Not sure what else you can do at this point.
 
ChiDO said:
Died because of covid?
Died with covid?

Two key questions that the government fails to publish and has avoided for the last two years.

Furthermore, look at the NYT vaccination data. I if I recall correctly, 80% of 18+ have received one shot at minimum... That's pretty damn high. Not sure what else you can do at this point.
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If it’s a sincere question, go to the hospital and walk around the ICU. Talk to the nurses and intensivists and you will have your answer.



 
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Another vocal antivaxxer asking for prayers. Believe it or not, vax>>>prayer.


 
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Mman said:
there is very little objective data about China's economy. it is essentially all just propaganda. For years, their quarterly growth numbers were like a metronome of consistency which is essentially impossible.
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Well Tesla sold a sht ton of cars there last quarter.
 
ChiDO said:
Died because of covid?
Died with covid?

Two key questions that the government fails to publish and has avoided for the last two years.

Furthermore, look at the NYT vaccination data. I if I recall correctly, 80% of 18+ have received one shot at minimum... That's pretty damn high. Not sure what else you can do at this point.
Click to expand...
Get boosters.
 
Mman said:
there is very little objective data about China's economy. it is essentially all just propaganda. For years, their quarterly growth numbers were like a metronome of consistency which is essentially impossible.
Click to expand...

True.
Here’s the second best thing. (Or what I should have presented, first).
Taiwan. Certainly policies aren’t not as drastic as China. By and large, shut down the country with strict quarantining procedures. Also bonus, didn’t get enough vaccines until at least 4-6 months after US.

IMG_0401.png



Source:

www.economicsobservatory.com

How has Taiwan navigated the pandemic? - Economics Observatory

Taiwan has fared better than many other countries during the Covid-19 crisis. Political leadership, early action, a national plan, strong information and communications technology infrastructure and a cooperative public have all contributed.
www.economicsobservatory.com www.economicsobservatory.com

I am arguing while we are wasting so much time/energy/resources fighting how to move forward, seem like we all are ready to move forward and leave those vulnerable behind…. we are all too selfish to do the right thing. Weare okay to sacrifice lives of the elderly and sickly, just to move on.
Vaccines are cheap compare to hospitalization, long hauler, productivity lost…. We can’t even achieve that. But we are all backseat driving other country’s policies and faults, at the end it hurts us more.

Bonus figure.
IMG_0402.png
 
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IMGASMD said:
We are all too selfish to do the right thing. We are okay to sacrifice lives of the elderly and sickly, just to move on.
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Serious question, not sure what the right thing we are all too selfish to be doing that is sacrificing the sick and elderly?
 
nimbus said:
If it’s a sincere question, go to the hospital and walk around the ICU. Talk to the nurses and intensivists and you will have your answer.
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After thinking it over, my thoughts are it's a lot of Delta patients (probably unvaccinated with risk factors as well) lagging from only a very short time ago that Delta was the common variant. It has been rapidly taken over by Omicron and fallen to less than 2%. I think the ICUs will thin out in a very short time and the entire spike of cases will quickly fade away as well. It's going up too fast with not enough base to sustain it after a while (...kind of like a late 90s dot com not named Ebay or Amazon).
 
IMGASMD said:
If you have to ask, then you don’t know the right thing.
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Uh duhhh, if I have to ask then, uh, yeah, I don't know what YOU think is right thing we are all too selfish to be doing that is sacrificing the sick and elderly. That's implied by asking the question.
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
Uh duhhh, if I have to ask then, uh, yeah, I don't know what YOU think is right thing we are all too selfish to be doing that is sacrificing the sick and elderly. That's implied by asking the question.
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IMGASMD means vaccinating/boosting every man, woman, and child that might pose a threat to him/her (fearful and weak), nevermind all the countries who haven't even had access to the first shots🤔. Apparently some people matter a little more than others.
 
gasdoc77 said:
IMGASMD means vaccinating/boosting every man, woman, and child that might pose a threat to him/her (fearful and weak), nevermind all the countries who haven't even had access to the first shots. Apparently some people matter a little more than others.
Click to expand...

My mom has always told me, take care of your own house before you criticize other. Same thing on the airplane or emergencies right? Take your own pulse, before you try to help others.

Put it plainly, you are not wrong though. We should give all the vaccines to those who actually want to live, rather than those who are more concerned about their liberty, freedom and conspiracy then ask for payers while dying in icu.
 
I sympathize with those of you in parts of the country with staffing shortages and bed/vent issues, etc., but it's not that way everywhere. We are on the downslope of what our surge is, and we didn't cancel a single case in the entire city. No ICU shortages, etc.

Our "peak" during this surge was about 50% of the last surge in August/Sept for number of patients hospitalized.
 
gasdoc77 said:
IMGASMD means vaccinating/boosting every man, woman, and child that might pose a threat to him/her (fearful and weak), nevermind all the countries who haven't even had access to the first shots🤔. Apparently some people matter a little more than others.
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If that's the case I didn't understand his point that we are all too selfish when the majority of we have been vaccinated.
 
IMGASMD said:
My mom has always told me, take care of your own house before you criticize other. Same thing on the airplane or emergencies right? Take your own pulse, before you try to help others.

Put it plainly, you are not wrong though. We should give all the vaccines to those who actually want to live, rather than those who are more concerned about their liberty, freedom and conspiracy then ask for payers while dying in icu.
Click to expand...


www.sorryantivaxxer.com

sorryantivaxxer.com | stories of anti-vaxxers who died from COVID.

They thought COVID was a scam, until they lay dying from it. sorryantivaxxer.com tells their story using their own facebook and twitter posts.
www.sorryantivaxxer.com www.sorryantivaxxer.com
 
We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
It's official, Lockdowns were a horrible idea in so many ways.

#teamsweden then
#teamsweden now
#teamsweden forever

fortune.com

3 prominent economists slam COVID lockdowns and school closures and say they should never happen again

After reviewing almost 19,000 studies, their report concludes that "lockdown policies are ill-founded and should be rejected as a pandemic policy instrument."
fortune.com fortune.com
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I recall reading pretty convincing evidence that Sweden had worse health and economic outcomes than their Nordic neighbors that locked down. (I'm not buying a subscription to fortune to read the article).

Per worldometer counting, Sweden with covid death rates 5-7x higher than Norway and Finland and per IMF data they had the largest drop in GDP in 2021 of those countries. Not exactly a winning formula.
 
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nimbus said:
The reality is that we never had a lockdown in the United States. Target and Walmart never closed. People still went out and partied whenever they felt like it.
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True, but it's the USA. We couldn't even get politicians to follow anything they were saying. Welding doors shut the China prevention method just can't be done here. So the level we are capable of shutting down is only harmful.
 
Next variant with either higher than expected mortality or transmissibility coming in 3mos.
Place your wagers.
 
DocMcCoy said:
0.2% reduction in mortality…

Though they did manage to exclude a heck of a lot of studies that will certainly be pointed out by critics

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www.snopes.com

Here's What We Know About 'Johns Hopkins Study' on Lockdowns

It's a non-peer reviewed working paper that has not been endorsed by the university.
www.snopes.com www.snopes.com

Non peer reviewed, economists with tweets showing bias...
 
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