OMM time

[mindy?]

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So, I got a PM from Dr Mom saying that I'd have to be in class 3hrs/wk for the next *2 years* for OMM. This can't be right. That means 3*3=9 hrs of studying + 3hrs/wk of classtime = 12 hrs/wk for this stuff? That's like a full day and a half per week! I don't think I can do that, because I'm a bit of a gunner & I want to do very well. Is this stuff on the board exams? Is Dr Mom right that it takes this much time? What about the cranial sacral stuff?
Thanks,
M

 

[Krazykritter]

DrMom is right on. You will be in class at least 3 hrs/wk. At DMU we have 2 hours of lecture/wk and 1.5 hours of lab. As far as studying, we have pop quizzes on previous lectures which is nice b/c it helps to keep you up on the material. I do not think that 12 hrs/wk is really necessary. We only have two written exams first year plus 4 practicals. Everything is spaced out pretty well so if you don't have to really do that much to keep up from week to week.

OMM is part of the COMLEX.

As for cranial sacral, I think we do some during the year, but if you are interested in that, there is a summer program you can enroll in for additional training.

 

[DrMom]

Don't figure on the 3 hrs studying for every hour of class formula. It really doesn't apply to OMM...and you'll study more than that for some other classes. You'll be able to keep up with OMM just fine.
At OSU you have a midterm and final each semester for lecture and about 3 lab practicals a semester. You'll be well-prepared for all of those on much less time than you're figuring. 🙂

 

[jonb12997]

we don't have the whole pop-quiz thing, but I honestly don't really study for OMM till just before the tests (2 practical and 1 written per half year)... I go to class and really pay attention, but then I go over the stuff REALLY well a few days before the test. I probably should be learning it a little better, but I feel like I'm doing well.

 

[BMW19]

Agreed,

You can't really use the class hours/study ratio with OMM. Being realistic people save OMM for last in terms of studying. Kind of last minute scrambling. For the lab portion, if you keep up with the techniques and practice them a few times thruout the semester you are fine.

BMW-

So, I got a PM from Dr Mom saying that I'd have to be in class 3hrs/wk for the next *2 years* for OMM. This can't be right. That means 3*3=9 hrs of studying + 3hrs/wk of classtime = 12 hrs/wk for this stuff? That's like a full day and a half per week! I don't think I can do that, because I'm a bit of a gunner & I want to do very well. Is this stuff on the board exams? Is Dr Mom right that it takes this much time? What about the cranial sacral stuff?
Thanks,
M

 

[OSUdoc08]

So, I got a PM from Dr Mom saying that I'd have to be in class 3hrs/wk for the next *2 years* for OMM. This can't be right. That means 3*3=9 hrs of studying + 3hrs/wk of classtime = 12 hrs/wk for this stuff? That's like a full day and a half per week! I don't think I can do that, because I'm a bit of a gunner & I want to do very well. Is this stuff on the board exams? Is Dr Mom right that it takes this much time? What about the cranial sacral stuff?
Thanks,
M

1. You study for OMM the night before the test. If you spend more than a few hours per exam, then you are wasting your time.

2. Gunners are looked down upon at our school. Prepare to be ousted or change your ways.

 

[mindy?]

Thanks for the responses, guys. It's good to hear it won't take that much time, but it's kind of depressing to see that no one takes it very seriously. I'll have to admit that DO school was a backup plan for me, but I assumed most of the folks there really liked that stuff. 🙁

 

[Taus]

Thanks for the responses, guys. It's good to hear it won't take that much time, but it's kind of depressing to see that no one takes it very seriously. I'll have to admit that DO school was a backup plan for me, but I assumed most of the folks there really liked that stuff. 🙁

It depends on the school (ie how it is taught)....most people I know here really like it....and also it is just not that difficult so there is no need to study so much for it....honestly whenever my back hurts I end up practicing OMM w/ my classmates so we can work on each other...makes practicing often easy...

Definitely read the thread titled "what every MSI should know about OMM"...its sticked in the DO forum....it gives you a realistic perspective on it

 

[Dr Alo]

Mindy,
A lot of people take OMM seriously. I personally do, not because I actually planned to before starting med school, but because it just happened. People did it to me, and it helped, I did it to ppl and it helped them.

Read my OMT stories on my blog, lot's of great stuff, and it works...
http://www.thealo.com/maloblog/index.asp?ci=6&s=category

Make up your own mind after going to school and putting in an honest effort.
Enjoy!

 

[mkmgal]

I'd say most people won't use OMM in the future, but it's a great tool, especially for primary care. I don't think it requires a lot of time to learn the "book stuff" of OMM, but it does require a lot of time to become efficient and effective at using the many OMM techniques. If OMM really turns you off, perhaps you should reconsider osteopathic medicine.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I'd say most people won't use OMM in the future, but it's a great tool, especially for primary care. I don't think it requires a lot of time to learn the "book stuff" of OMM, but it does require a lot of time to become efficient and effective at using the many OMM techniques. If OMM really turns you off, perhaps you should reconsider osteopathic medicine.

Even if you do not plan on using OMM therapy, you will have developed a unique ability to diagnose musculoskeletal problems that MD's do not have.

 

[Amy B]

Being realistic people save OMM for last in terms of studying. Kind of last minute scrambling.BMW-

That is just not true... People dont wait till the last minute!








Ok.. now i have to go. My OMM practical is in 2 hours and I am cramming my brains out 😀 😀 😀

 

[OSUdoc08]

That is just not true... People dont wait till the last minute!


Ok.. now i have to go. My OMM practical is in 2 hours and I am cramming my brains out 😀 😀 😀

It's true for everyone I know at my school.

 

[BMW19]

Not that we don't take it seriously, its just that if I have physio, endocrine, and reproductive I am going to take that VERY seriously. OMM, can be learned without stressing over it. The didactic can be memorized it is the lab portion that takes practice to get good at.

BMW-

Thanks for the responses, guys. It's good to hear it won't take that much time, but it's kind of depressing to see that no one takes it very seriously. I'll have to admit that DO school was a backup plan for me, but I assumed most of the folks there really liked that stuff. 🙁

 

[mindy?]

I'd say most people won't use OMM in the future, but it's a great tool, especially for primary care. I don't think it requires a lot of time to learn the "book stuff" of OMM, but it does require a lot of time to become efficient and effective at using the many OMM techniques. If OMM really turns you off, perhaps you should reconsider osteopathic medicine.

How is it a "great tool" if "most people won't use" it?

Don't take it personally. This is the same double-talk I've gotten quite used to when talking to osteopaths in my area. I suppose if I question this stuff at OSU I'll pretty much get the same response?, which will probably depress me to death.

This thread, and the cheerleader-like responses I've been PM'd from DrMom & Crew, has made my choice much easier.
-M

 

[Taus]

Here are a few points to consider when thinking about the statement "no one really uses it":

1. If you do not go into primary care (ie Family Med, General Internal Med, Peds), Sports Med or PM&R, then there is good chance that it is not applicable to your specialty and thus not included in your post graduate training (think surgery, urology, etc...I don't think you want any OMM from your urologist...jk...well...sort of...)

2. With around half of DO's going into MD residencies, even those in the primary care specialties where OMM could be extremely useful, many recieve no training in OMM after med school in a residency program run largely by MD's.

3. For those that do go into DO primary care residencies, plus others that chose to learn the skill well during med school, not every case indicates OMM as the proper treatment, just as you don't give an antibiotic w/o a bacterial infection.

4. The principle of "use it or lose it" applies to everything I have previously said. OMM is not just like riding a bike and it takes a decent amount of continued practice to be good enough to really treat a patient. If it is not indicated in many of the cases in your specialty and you haven't been so kind (or able to) treat your friends/co-workers aching backs and muscles, then you will no longer be able to be competently treat your patients with it.

5. No one is going to tell you that you have to be an OMM specialist or FP/OMM doc and no one is going to tell you that you will definitely be good at it or like all of it. HOWEVER, because you are trained in it, you have the ability to make the consious decision if it is something that you would like to incorporate into your future practice. If its for you, great- enjoy it, use it and help people with it. If not, so be it, you will still be a well trained physician. You at least had the choice. Some of my peers who want to do surgery know that they will likely never use it in practice, but their close friends won't let them forgot OMM because of how much they love the treatments when their DO friend is around.

6. Even if you don't use OMM in practice, it ABSOLUTELY increases your comfort level w/ patients and the human body and when it comes time for you to put your hands on actual patients you will have a huge leg up in the "not being sqeamish" department.

7. Your palpatory diagnostic ability will absolutely be raised even if you don't use OMM in practice.


On a personal note.... I know that I will likely not love or remember every little bit of OMM that I am taught. I also know that I will probably not be an OMM specialist of FP/OMM doc. However, from the techniques that I have learned so far and the ones that I will continue to learn, I can say that having the ability to quickly take care of someones backpain, muscle pain, headache etc is something that I am very happy about. Again, if there are a few techniques that I don't like, am not good at, or simply dont "get"....I will still be satisfied if I can take away a few "bread and butter" OMM techniques to help people when it is needed.

ps...I apologize for whatever grammer errors/typos that I left in here...its late...I'm tired...and this is an internet forum...

 

[OSUdoc08]

How is it a "great tool" if "most people won't use" it?

Don't take it personally. This is the same double-talk I've gotten quite used to when talking to osteopaths in my area. I suppose if I question this stuff at OSU I'll pretty much get the same response?, which will probably depress me to death.

This thread, and the cheerleader-like responses I've been PM'd from DrMom & Crew, has made my choice much easier.
-M

Even if you don't use it, you're going to be able to outdiagnose any MD for patients that have a musculoskeletal complaint.

I'm not going to use OMM in the ER, but when I am a team physician, I sure as hell will use it.

Take your licks and move on. Some people don't like OMM and some people don't like biochemistry. You're gonna learn both, whether you like it or not, so do it and move on.

When your dad has a shoulder injury from his golf game, and you can relieve his pain immediately, it will pay off.

 

[Old_Mil]

So, I got a PM from Dr Mom saying that I'd have to be in class 3hrs/wk for the next *2 years* for OMM. This can't be right. That means 3*3=9 hrs of studying + 3hrs/wk of classtime = 12 hrs/wk for this stuff?

Class + Lab does = 3 hours a week. The formula that you mention doesn't apply for OMM, however and it doesn't take that much time.

You raise a good point about the boards, however. There is an OMT written section on the COMLEX, but lately I've been hearing rumors that there's an OMT practical to pass your Step I?

Anyone know if that's true?

 

[OSUdoc08]

Class + Lab does = 3 hours a week. The formula that you mention doesn't apply for OMM, however and it doesn't take that much time.

You raise a good point about the boards, however. There is an OMT written section on the COMLEX, but lately I've been hearing rumors that there's an OMT practical to pass your Step I?

Anyone know if that's true?

No. The OMT practical is part of a clinical skills practical, which is part of Step II. (It is called Step II-PE)

On a side note, that "formula" doesn't work for ANY class.

 

[Raven Feather]

How is it a "great tool" if "most people won't use" it?

Don't take it personally. This is the same double-talk I've gotten quite used to when talking to osteopaths in my area. I suppose if I question this stuff at OSU I'll pretty much get the same response?, which will probably depress me to death.

This thread, and the cheerleader-like responses I've been PM'd from DrMom & Crew, has made my choice much easier.
-M

It is for those who do use it-- nothing less, nothing more.

Gotta make the choice that is best for you and your situation. Don't be offended but for someone using DO schools as a "back up" plan, you seem to be really concerned about the use or lack there of concerning OMM. I don't think I'd care if I was using the DO route as a back up plan, especially considering your plan A doesn't even teach it--but you are not me and maybe Im just in a jackassish type mood. But if you feel it should be used more, then what you do is use it when you practice.

 

[Amy B]

It's true for everyone I know at my school.

I was being sarcastic.. Didnt you see the comment about me getting ready to cram for my OMM practical? Sorry if ya missed that i was joking 😉

 

[OMMFellow06]

1. You study for OMM the night before the test. If you spend more than a few hours per exam, then you are wasting your time.
QUOTE]

Unfortunately, it is the people that do only study for it the last minute that don't do it. It's because they didn't take it seriously during school and didn't at least get decent at it. OMM does take work to get good at, but when you do get somewhat comfortable with it, it's great not only for your patients, but also for your wallet. Not only because you can bill for it, but also because you're not likely to lose a patient that you've treated successfully. You're actually likely to get that patient refer you to their family and friends. It's a nice cycle of referals that you don't have to pay to advertise for. I'm not saying that is why I love it so much, but it's a nice side effect. I really love being able to treat a person, who alot of times has been to many other doctors first, and make them better and see the big smile on their faces.

I also think that it can be used in almost any specialty including the ones mentioned before(urology and surgery) One of the biggest problems that surgeons face is post-operative ileus which can prevented with OMM so if you're going into surgery or are on your surgery rotation, use it on all your post-op patients.

The take home message - learn it as well as you can during your first 2 years of medical school because it will be such a benefit to you in whatever field that you choose. I understand that most medical students think that it's easier to learn than other things, but unlike other things, it's not so easy to learn it later on. For example, if you don't put in the time to learn cardiology early, you'll have more chances to learn it later on and hopefully understand it. However, if you don't learn OMM early, it's really really difficult to learn it later because alot of it requires you to get good at using your hands to learn the techniques to treat your patients. You may understand it later on, but may not be so good at applying it. I've spoken to many third and fourth year medical students that wished that they had learned it better the first 2 years so they could treat their patients.

 

[drchris33]

I appreciated the comment by ommfellow06. I too am in undergrad fellow at KCUMB, so I just had to comment on this thread.

I am going to be a surgeon and I definitely plan on using this in my practice. There are at least 6 journal articles you can reference to the efficacy of OMM and post-op pain, post-op ileus, improvements in spirometry, etc. So my only request is to keep an open mind and don't go in with the mind set that it is only for FPs or OMM specialists. I think any specialty, especially ortho, gen surg, critical care, ER and Sports Med there is a huge application for it. I plan on doing a critical care/trauma surgery fellowship as well after completing a general surgery residency......and see a huge need for OMM in the SICU patient. They just lay there all day, on vents and drips and other monitoring devices. If you can spend like three to five minutes to treat ribs, cervicals and sacrum, you can increase diaphragmatic excursion, rib motion and possibly decrease respiratory effort (granted that they are conscious), I just can't see doing anything but good for your patients. I have heard time and time again that you dont need it in surgery or whatever....that you dont have time. If you only spend three to five mintues with the patient on rounds in the morning, as you ask them your simple post-op questions you can be treating ribs, sacrum, thoracics, cervicals or whatever, while you are questioning your patient.

And please don't think that I am someone claiming that OMM will cure cancer or cure pneumonia or whatever......just utilize the skills you acquire with your hands so that you can facilitate one more treatment modality to your patient, since that is whole point of becoming a physician right??? Helping our patients get better the fastest that we can.

-C