OMS-II Interested in Anesthesiology in Urban Setting. Any advice?

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blatauthoshunt42 said:
nice...but news to me that urban means outdoors...
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The joke actually implies the opposite but I digress.

Take USMLE 1 and 2. Do some aways and get some letters. Don't be annoying in the OR. Exist in this plane of space and time. That seems to be the general consensus.
 
Anesthesia is no derm or ortho... Do ok in both step1/2 and then have a pulse by the time you apply. Be ready to deal egotistical surgeons and for CRNA to say they can do a better job than you.
 
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blatauthoshunt42 said:
are osteopathic students playing on the same level field with MD students in anesthesia?
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You are never on the same playing field, but you are in good shape. My personal contacts that matched anesthesia did so without anything stellar on their app and had a multitude of places to choose from
 
WhereMyLiberalsAt said:
Is the “having a pulse” thing a hard cutoff? I heard some community programs don’t even look at that?
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Well I heard pulse or respirations was the real hard cut off. Also heard that if you even think the letters MDA together that your app goes in the trash.
 
FutureDoctor5000 said:
I hear that 230+ step score is good enough to match at mid/mid- upper tier places. Look at match lists of DO schools and you will see ppl matching anesthesia in almost every big city. Also 400K sounds pretty sweet to me but the lifestyle sucks.
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LOL
 
DNC127 said:
LOL
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??? Not sure what the LOL is for here, Anesthesiologists who are making over 400k generally have quite a bit of call (like one day a week, plus 1 weekend a month). That may not sound like a ton but it adds up to something like 76 24 hour calls a year. This is not something I made up, its what the actual Anesthesia docs did in the group I used to work with. If you wanted less you made considerably less.

I know someone on a mommy track right now, who only works every other week without calls/weekends. She makes around 100k. If you want that kind of 'lifestyle' you could get it in FM with the same kind of hours. Unless your the senior partner in a group, you aren't making 400k by chilling as a anesthesiologist.
 
BorntobeDO? said:
??? Not sure what the LOL is for here, Anesthesiologists who are making over 400k generally have quite a bit of call (like one day a week, plus 1 weekend a month). That may not sound like a ton but it adds up to something like 76 24 hour calls a year. This is not something I made up, its what the actual Anesthesia docs did in the group I used to work with. If you wanted less you made considerably less.

I know someone on a mommy track right now, who only works every other week without calls/weekends. She makes around 100k. If you want that kind of 'lifestyle' you could get it in FM with the same kind of hours. Unless your the senior partner in a group, you aren't making 400k by chilling as a anesthesiologist.
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*in-house call* at that. Most people just don't notice that anesthesia lifestyle isn't great on average.
 
BorntobeDO? said:
??? Not sure what the LOL is for here, Anesthesiologists who are making over 400k generally have quite a bit of call (like one day a week, plus 1 weekend a month). That may not sound like a ton but it adds up to something like 76 24 hour calls a year. This is not something I made up, its what the actual Anesthesia docs did in the group I used to work with. If you wanted less you made considerably less.

I know someone on a mommy track right now, who only works every other week without calls/weekends. She makes around 100k. If you want that kind of 'lifestyle' you could get it in FM with the same kind of hours. Unless your the senior partner in a group, you aren't making 400k by chilling as a anesthesiologist.
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Should have had more context. I was more laughing at the fact that this isn't a common sentiment and most people I know personally going into anesthesia are doing it for the lifestyle they perceive they will have. Just figured some people would be super bummed to read that haha
 
DNC127 said:
Should have had more context. I was more laughing at the fact that this isn't a common sentiment and most people I know personally going into anesthesia are doing it for the lifestyle they perceive they will have. Just figured some people would be super bummed to read that haha
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Just like EM. If more people had jobs before school they would understand.
 
When I think of lifestyle specialty, anesthesiology does not come to mind... The specialties that are lifestyle friendly in no particular order are PM&R, Derm, Psych, FM outpatient, IM outpatient, Preventive medicine, Pathology, and RadOnc.

Not sure why people think anesthesiology is a lifestyle specialty when most are working 50+ hrs/week with calls and weekends.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
I will never understand the fascination with EM. I swear 50% of my class wants to do EM.
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Most DO schools have actual access to regularly visible EM clinical faculty (unlike a lot of specialties) so it's a frequently brought up (and glorified) specialty for the didactic years. You notice it's pretty much only DO schools that are obsessed with EM as a whole. It's a safe ticket out of clinic, with lay prestige and good pay that is realistic for DOs to pursue.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to do it. It is an objectively good specialty. I just wonder if any of these people think about being 60 and still working nights/weekends/holidays? I think they just don't get that working 14 shifts a month sucks.
 
Neopolymath said:
Most DO schools have actual access to regularly visible EM clinical faculty (unlike a lot of specialties) so it's a frequently brought up (and glorified) specialty for the didactic years. You notice it's pretty much only DO schools that are obsessed with EM as a whole. It's a safe ticket out of clinic, with lay prestige and good pay that is realistic for DOs to pursue.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to do it. It is an objectively good specialty. I just wonder if any of these people think about being 60 and still working nights/weekends/holidays? I think they just don't get that working 14 shifts a month sucks.
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If they are not bad with money, they won't have to work past their 50s...
 
Then theres also Psych- a bunch of my class wants to do Psych too. The pay is great and the hours are good too, but you gotta deal with crazy people...lol. EM is the biggest bang for its money. You can easily pull 400-450k after just 3 years in residency, without call like in GS or ortho or other surgical subs/cards/GI. Rads pulls 400k+ but you pretty much need to do a fellowship of some kind and that puts you at 6 years of residency + fellowship. I think financially speaking EM is the best specialty outside of only derm. Also If I am even thinking about working past 60 after years of a six figure salary then I must have done something terribly wrong with my finances lol. If someone doesn't truly like anything in medicine then EM is the best specialty for them, you get to do a bit of everything, you can easily do FM at an urgent care if you get tired of the ER after a few years and you get to practicing in 3 years, what more can you ask?
 
Neopolymath said:
Most DO schools have actual access to regularly visible EM clinical faculty (unlike a lot of specialties) so it's a frequently brought up (and glorified) specialty for the didactic years. You notice it's pretty much only DO schools that are obsessed with EM as a whole. It's a safe ticket out of clinic, with lay prestige and good pay that is realistic for DOs to pursue.

I don't blame anyone for wanting to do it. It is an objectively good specialty. I just wonder if any of these people think about being 60 and still working nights/weekends/holidays? I think they just don't get that working 14 shifts a month sucks.
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Go look at the past match thread, this isn’t a DO thing. EM is for sure getting more competitive with people clambering to get aways. I know everything cycles, but EM is for sure on its up swing. CMGs will suck the soul from the specialty but that’s for another thread.

I also think “they” have their crap together when it comes to their video interviews and SLOE (even though that isn’t always perfect.) Those factors can help DOs over the standard application process.
 
BorntobeDO? said:
??? Not sure what the LOL is for here, Anesthesiologists who are making over 400k generally have quite a bit of call (like one day a week, plus 1 weekend a month). That may not sound like a ton but it adds up to something like 76 24 hour calls a year. This is not something I made up, its what the actual Anesthesia docs did in the group I used to work with. If you wanted less you made considerably less.

I know someone on a mommy track right now, who only works every other week without calls/weekends. She makes around 100k. If you want that kind of 'lifestyle' you could get it in FM with the same kind of hours. Unless your the senior partner in a group, you aren't making 400k by chilling as a anesthesiologist.
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The lifestyle can suck but the situation you describe is not typical and much worse than average. The compensation for that much call should be much more than 400k. The average in my group is over 400k and we do 5pm-7am overnite calls 18 times a year (which is still sh***y and I work in a crappy payor mix hospital.) We take our precall and post call days off. On some of our noncall days we are completely off or work only 2-3hrs. We never do 24hr calls. 76x24hr calls/year is absolutely nuts.

Also very crappy mommy track jobs pay $1500/day. Not sure how your friend ends up getting 100k/yr. If she works 40 hrs/weekx26weeks she’s getting paid about $100/hr. A 26yo new grad CRNA typically gets $170k/yr for 36hr/week and 6weeks vacation (also about $100/hr). Many CRNAs make twice that. Your friend is working for new grad CRNA pay and is being robbed.

Nationally the median compensation is about $460k for a 50hr workweek with 6-8wks vacation.
 
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nimbus said:
The lifestyle can suck but the situation you describe is not typical and much worse than average. The compensation for that much call should be much more than 400k. The average in my group is over 400k and we do 5pm-7am overnite calls 18 times a year (which is still sh***y and I work in a crappy payor mix hospital.) We take our precall and post call days off. On some of our noncall days we are completely off or work only 2-3hrs. We never do 24hr calls. 76x24hr calls/year is absolutely nuts.

Also very crappy mommy track jobs pay $1500/day. Not sure how your friend ends up getting 100k/yr. If she works 40 hrs/weekx26weeks she’s getting paid about $100/hr. A 26yo new grad CRNA typically gets $170k/yr for 36hr/week and 6weeks vacation (also about $100/hr). Many CRNAs make twice that. Your friend is working for new grad CRNA pay and is being robbed.

Nationally the median compensation is about $460k for a 50hr workweek with 6-8wks vacation.
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I appreciate the reply. That median is higher than I have seen previously, is that MGMA? If so that is a good counterpoint. I previously saw that only 33% of Anesthesiologists were over 400k, but admittedly that was a couple years ago and from medscape which tends to underestimate. The group I was talking about is an 'all partner' AMC, which seem to be taking over everywhere in the South.

Where I am at the CRNAs are getting 130-140k for new grads doing the schedule you described. I will admit that I am not completely sure how many hours my friend works in her on week, so its possible she isn't doing 40 x 26, she is a university employee tho, so that might be the cause as well.
 
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BorntobeDO? said:
I appreciate the reply. That median is higher than I have seen previously, is that MGMA? If so that is a good counterpoint. I previously saw that only 33% of Anesthesiologists were over 400k, but admittedly that was a couple years ago and from medscape which tends to underestimate. The group I was talking about is an 'all partner' AMC, which seem to be taking over everywhere in the South.

Where I am at the CRNAs are getting 130-140k for new grads doing the schedule you described. I will admit that I am not completely sure how many hours my friend works in her on week, so its possible she isn't doing 40 x 26, she is a university employee tho, so that might be the cause as well.
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Yes it’s MGMA

2F9883FE-6B15-4E25-ACCA-42E44AE2650E.jpeg
 
Anesthesia colleagues out East tell me they have call more frequently than once every 3 weeks,(18), times a year. Specialty call, cardiac, neuro, trauma, are about once or twice a week. Reimbursement in the East is some of the lowest in the country. Specialty call will dilute the compensation pool in anesthesia and rads because more docs have to be on call every night.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
Anesthesia colleagues out East tell me they have call more frequently than once every 3 weeks,(18), times a year. Specialty call, cardiac, neuro, trauma, are about once or twice a week. Reimbursement in the East is some of the lowest in the country. Specialty call will dilute the compensation pool in anesthesia and rads because more docs have to be on call every night.
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Yes I take q4 cardiac call in addition to in-house trauma call 1-2x/month. I wasn’t counting cardiac call because the only requirement for that is that I remain in town and sober. I get called in maybe 6 times a year on cardiac call. I’m in an eat what you kill PP so there’s no “compensation pool”. More work=more pay. No work=no pay.
 
Looking at those low wages in the east...

Seriously though, what in the actual F is in the east?!? Why do so many people want to “go back home” after graduating? Low paying jobs, overcrowded cities, high COL and traffic from hell!

SDN also amazes me what people consider BFE... I’ve been to Egypt, and it looks nothing like Laramie Wyoming!
 
Angus Avagadro said:
Anesthesia colleagues out East tell me they have call more frequently than once every 3 weeks,(18), times a year. Specialty call, cardiac, neuro, trauma, are about once or twice a week. Reimbursement in the East is some of the lowest in the country. Specialty call will dilute the compensation pool in anesthesia and rads because more docs have to be on call every night.
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The job market on the East Coast is by far the worst in the country, not just in terms of salary, but in terms of AMCs and CRNA independence. Anesthesiology has officially lost the fight for the eastern seaboard. If you call that area home, like me, be ready to move.

Also, to OP, the people spewing crap about needing a pulse to match gas are living in the world of 2010. The last application cycle was absolutely brutal with lots of solid candidates being passed over. Anesthesiology may be more competitive than EM at this point. Just my luck 🙄 #c/o2020curse
 
WhereMyLiberalsAt said:
Looking at those low wages in the east...

Seriously though, what in the actual F is in the east?!? Why do so many people want to “go back home” after graduating? Low paying jobs, overcrowded cities, high COL and traffic from hell!

SDN also amazes me what people consider BFE... I’ve been to Egypt, and it looks nothing like Laramie Wyoming!
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It’s the AMCs. The practices on the East coast have some of the highest unit values in the nation but much of the money goes to the PE overlords, not the doctors. Anesthesiologists are generating higher revenues there than most other parts of the country but they are just widgets for bankers.
 
nimbus said:
Yes I take q4 cardiac call in addition to in-house trauma call 1-2x/month. I wasn’t counting cardiac call because the only requirement for that is that I remain in town and sober. I get called in maybe 6 times a year on cardiac call. I’m in an eat what you kill PP so there’s no “compensation pool”. More work=more pay. No work=no pay.
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My buddy works in an arrangement like that and hav vented to me. There is squabbling over compensation. 1,200 cabgs / yr., in house guy on general call has to do bring backs for bleeding but not competent do do the original case. His group used to be a day of work is a day of work, and bonus pool split. Hip replacements need to be done, c sections need to be done, out of department cases need to be done. But as reimbursement dropped, things changed. Private medical practice is getting more and more like law firms with a tiered hierarchy.
How are cases assigned in your group? Direct consult from surgeon? Does someone in your group assign what cases you will do? Thanks for your insight!
 
Angus Avagadro said:
My buddy works in an arrangement like that and hav vented to me. There is squabbling over compensation. 1,200 cabgs / yr., in house guy on general call has to do bring backs for bleeding but not competent do do the original case. His group used to be a day of work is a day of work, and bonus pool split. Hip replacements need to be done, c sections need to be done, out of department cases need to be done. But as reimbursement dropped, things changed. Private medical practice is getting more and more like law firms with a tiered hierarchy.
How are cases assigned in your group? Direct consult from surgeon? Does someone in your group assign what cases you will do? Thanks for your insight!
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Sorry your friend’s practice doesn’t sound fair.

We have pooled unit value so everything is insurance blind. No bickering. We have a monthly call list and everybody gets an even distribution of call. Some people pick up extra call and other people give them away. People swap call positions all the time but it’s between 2 people. We pick our own cases the evening before. 1st call gets 1st pick, 2nd call gets 2nd pick, and so on. Most people pick the highest value cases. Others pick surgeons they like. Still others only pick easy outpatient cases. We have up to 18 people working on any given day but sometimes only 13 or 14..

When we are on heart call, we have 1st pick of daytime heart cases (usually there is only one or 2, not super busy) and we are responsible for any emergencies or bringbacks. There’s 4 of us doing hearts, nobody else is responsible for bringbacks or emergencies.

We have no hierarchy in terms of case picking/vacation/or pay. No financial buy in but it takes 2 years to become partner and get voting rights. There is no bump in pay when you become partner. You are only paid for your own work, not somebody else’s. Everybody gets the same pay per unit of work. My group was formed in the 1950s and they blended units in the 1980s so it’s been that way for a long time.
 
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blatauthoshunt42 said:
Hello all,

I'm a 2nd year OMS student interested in possibly pursuing Anesthesiology as a specialty. Are there any tips/advice/threads abot pursuing this path?

I know board scores are a huge boost, are there other things that OMS students can do to be competitive in pursuing the specialty?

Thanks
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The best thing you can do right now is to take the boards seriously. Second thing is to find a mentor and get a case report or 2. That’s quick and easy “research”.

OMS can be very competitive. Lots of DO’s in great programs. Currently there is one at MGH as well.
 
nimbus said:
The best thing you can do right now is to take the boards seriously. Second thing is to find a mentor and get a case report or 2. That’s quick and easy “research”.

OMS can be very competitive. Lots of DO’s in great programs. Currently there is one at MGH as well.
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Agree completely with the above. Have a student in the number one anesthesiology program who had 3 top 10 interviews. Have others in university programs with above average boards and apps.
 
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