OMS: To MD or not to MD?

[TX OMFS]

To all my fellow residents, what do you think about the MD? Many of the students thinking of going to OMS probably wonder about this and I thought we could help them out. Personally, I was too egotistical to consider a four year program. Besides, two years for a second doctorate ain't bad. I really thought being an MD was going to be "cool" and going to med school was going to be awesome.

Boy, hindsight is a biotch, though. I now see only two reasons to get the MD: 1) ego, 2) IMHO, many of the best OMS programs are six years. Then there are schools like Houston: good and four or six years. I really don't know if I'd do it different in hindsight or not. Maybe some of the disenchantment I'm having now is based on more than wondering why I'm sitting in the labor unit at 10:45pm on Saturday night.

It seems to me that the average medical student doesn't know that much more coming into residency. Residency is where they learn to treat patients. Med school is where they run the gauntlet of skut work and earn their stripes. People may say you get out of med school, or dental school for that matter, what you want. As an OMS in med school I'll probably get more out of my rotations b/c I have clinical experience to tie it with. But, a four year OMS resident can get the same thing out of their medical/surgical rotations that I can get out of mine. Besides, do I really need to know the difference in OA and OP fetal position to make $$$ pulling thirds?

Finally, the disclaimer. If you want to do a fellowship, lot of cancer or cosmetic surgery, or go into academics I think you should go to a six year program.

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[ItsGavinC]

Great takes, and interesting stuff to read and think about.

I hope others will chime in with their opinions AND experiences.

 

[tjb]

In essence it's quite a bargain. You either do a 4 year and get a certificate or 2 more years for an MD. If you look at it your getting an MD and a PGY1 in gen surgery in 2 years. This degree and PGY1 would normally take 5 years the traditional route or 3 years advanced standing route. I was also told by various programs that there are more and more programs going back to 4 years. Who knows what will change 10-20 years from now. The MD might be well worth it in the future.

tjb

 

[nando]

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2004/10/18/prl21018.htm

Check this out. It pertains to those interested in the MD. Hopefully you get it through those programs that make you licensed(USMLE) as well, and not one of those schools/routes where it's just the degree.

 

[north2southOMFS]

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2004/10/18/prl21018.htm

Check this out. It pertains to those interested in the MD. Hopefully you get it through those programs that make you licensed(USMLE) as well, and not one of those schools/routes where it's just the degree.

I agree with the medical profession on this one.

Here is why:

These guys went to some monthlong medical school somewhere in the caribbean, got a degree that said they are now an MD, and use it in public.

My problem is not with their patient care,

My problem is that they are really hurting the other OMFS's who have legitimate Medical degrees, from the united states, with a year of general surgery under their belt and can practice (get a liscence) under their Medical Degree.

What is not good is that the medical community is making a big stink about these guys and their shady medical degrees, and the public is hearing about it. Nowhere in the article does it mention legitimate dual degree oral surgeons who can practice with their MD, so now when the press and public gets wind of this they will believe that any oral surgeon with a DDS MD behind his name is being dishonest, when in actuality the majority of the DDS MD's out there are legitimate with both degrees and both liscences, from fully accredited medical schools and general surgery internship years.

Another problem is that the otolaryngologists and plastic surgeons love to use this to bad mouth the OMFS profession and try and push back whatever strides we have made toward expanding our scope of practice.

But then again I am only a PGY I in a dual degree program, so I realize I still have a lot to figure out. Plus in my program our department (OMFS) is very strong in the hospital, we have no Plastics residency here, and ENT are the laziest people in our hospital, we work our rearends off to be the go-to guys for most of the head and neck problems.. Our upper levels take pride in their MD's, and use them also, not just for show.

These jokers in kansas are only hurting our profession fighting with the MD's over use of their shady medical degrees.

Oh and I say shady not because they are a "foreign medical grad", but becasue they never had to take the USMLE steps to get it; which is kinda the 6 year OMFS programs limiting factor. Anyone can go through year 3 & 4 of medical school, from what I've seen, they are not hard, you just show up everyday. Wait till TX OMFS and omsres chime in, I have a feeling they will agree.

Oh and to reply to the second part of what you wrote nando, there are no offical AAOMS accredited OMFS residencies out there that are dual degree in the fashion those jokers got it in. All the ones in this country give you the medical degree with general surgery to practice under it.

 

[toofache32]

I've finished the med school portion of my program and I agree with North2SouthOMFS. These bozos with the off-shore MDs make it tougher for us legitimate MDs to be credible with the ENT and Plastics guys, who love looking for a reason to discredit us.

However, I think this is ironic, because med school added very little to my knowledge relevant to oral surgery. I really don't think the MD makes you a better surgeon, but it does make you better at chasing down xrays, getting coffee for the team, and holding the sticks in the OR. Actually, I did much more surgery in dental school than medical school, because in dental school I was the only guy in the room doing the procedure. In med school, you may get to suture or something similarly exciting 👎 , but you mainly stand around and watch other people work. They don't even know if you're there or not. The 3rd and 4th years of med school are pretty easy. You just show up on time and you pass. I got mostly B's without trying too hard.

I'm just getting the MD because I'm going into academics, but it's not required even for academics. Only 1 out of 8 of our full-time faculty are dual-degree, which makes me more proud of my dental background in some ways. But 2 more letters after your name doesn't hurt in the academic world.

 

[Yah-E]

Thanks for starting this thread TX OMFS!

I read the article posted by Nando and looked up Drs. Steven Thomas and Steven Guttenberg with ACOMS. Here's the website:

http://www.acoms.org/officers.php

After reading their education background, looks like both of these Steves went to that same foreign medical school at the same time in 2000-2001. Their emails are also provided, I almost wrote them and ask them why they are using the MD initials when they don't have the actual MD degree, training, and exams certifications.

I think we should all write them and ask them to delete their MDs behind their names, what do you all think? 😀

 

[lnn2]

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2004/10/18/prl21018.htm

Check this out. It pertains to those interested in the MD. Hopefully you get it through those programs that make you licensed(USMLE) as well, and not one of those schools/routes where it's just the degree.

Checked it out. Very sad but truth. That's a truely F-ed up situation. They're President-elect and Vice president of ACOMS? Holy **** 😱 I wonder how many members are in the ACOMS, just the three of them 😕 I respect OMFS for the knowledge, skills and the amount of time that they have to spend in school, but these guys are scam artists. They must had skipped the professional ethic class in dental school.

 

[Jediwendell]

You know, bottom line is when you practice OMS you are practicing as a dentist. The MD only really came about to prevent issues with admissions and probably more accurately, to allow people to do cosmetics. The MD is a piece of paper. Some of the best OMSs I know are single degree, and I would put them up against any MD OMS. That being said, if I was going to recommend a program to someone, I would recommend getting an MD unless you just want to do strictly dentoalveolar surgery with minimal grafting. Two years for an MD is unbeatable.

 

[lnn2]

The problem here is not single or duo degree but a bogus MD degree. These guys do not have a licensed MD, their degrees were not from an accredited schools. Putting the bogus MD after their names is misleading to patients and unethical. Of course they have to practice dentistry. They can't practice medicine w/ the bogus MD degree.

 

[north2southOMFS]

Personally, I was too egotistical to consider a four year program. .

Wow, you egotistical? No, never. 🙂

Oh, by the way i was thinking of taking your daughter omsres out on a date, that ok by you?

 

[TX OMFS]

Wow, you egotistical? No, never. 🙂

Oh, by the way i was thinking of taking your daughter omsres out on a date, that ok by you?

Are you the catcher or pitcher? He only dresses like my daughter on Friday nights.

Now, back to the original post. If you're a resident, four or six year, would you advise the dental students around here to get the MD? I tend to agree with Jediwendall in that you can have an excellent, traditional OMS practice without the MD. Like toofache, said, though, you might not be as good at mixing coffee.

 

[omfs44]

i actually think that it's way better to have a MD as a OMFS. When i was a intern last year, there were soooo many times when i went to the ER to close someone's face up and they saw my ID said "DDS". then they would ask me why a dentist is closing my lac,....then i have to explain the whole omfs thing to them. sure, MD doesn't really make you a better oral surgeon, but it helps alot in the public's eye that you're allowed to do many procedures outside the mouth and they don't doubt your credential. of course the drawback is the extra 2 years (and more loan and the opportunity cost) and passing step one (which im still trying to pass...sigh!)

 

[lnn2]

In essence it's quite a bargain. You either do a 4 year and get a certificate or 2 more years for an MD. If you look at it your getting an MD and a PGY1 in gen surgery in 2 years. This degree and PGY1 would normally take 5 years the traditional route or 3 years advanced standing route. I was also told by various programs that there are more and more programs going back to 4 years. Who knows what will change 10-20 years from now. The MD might be well worth it in the future.

tjb

Man, what do u know about OMFS? You're just a first yr, rookie

 

[Jediwendell]

Yeah, it may be better in the ED, but who really goes to the ED when they are finished with their residency to sew up lacs. Nobody, unless they are gettin paid by the ED to take trauma call. For my money, I would have been better off at a program like Iowa or Minnesota. Nice traditional four year programs. I really think it boils down to cosmetics, and in some instances as you pointed out, trauma. I gotta be honest, though, if they don't want someone to take trauma because they are DDS/DMD only, then that is their loss. Noboody wants to take trauma if they can get out of it when they are in private practice. As for these yo-yos putting MD on their stuff, I have an MD but am not licensed. My MD is a legitimate MD that I worked hard to get, and I still can't put it on my sign or advertise with it because I'm not licensed. This is highly repugnant for them to do. I hope they get nailed to the wall.