One month since match.... :-/

[WEKS]

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So, its been a month since I matched at my #12 choice...needless to say I have been pretty down in the dumps since it happened. I know things could be worse, I know there are people without positions right now, who had to scramble successfully or unsuccessfully, but I still just can't shake this feeling that I got punched in the gut and am still trying to catch some air.

I have been trying to make the best of this situation: I liked the program I matched at, and going into match day I knew I would be happy to train there. That said, I did not see it coming at all...Maybe I got cocky, because I was getting interviews at top Academic centers, but I still haven't come to terms with the fact that I was shot down by 11 programs (including my home program) and matched at a community program, pretty much limiting my options for top fellowships and an academic career. I keep just obsessing over every interview at these programs, and thinking what I did wrong....I didn't think I was a rock star on interviews, but I thought I was articulate and likable enough to back up what they saw on paper...

But the biggest problem is everybody that is surrounding me. I'm in a college town, so pretty much my only friends are med students. And still all they ever #$%ing talk about is the interview trail and how well everyone in our class did in the match (It seems like I am the only person who didn't match at my top 4). Every time I accept the position I am in, I get knocked down a peg...constantly getting backhanded compliments after they hear where I matched: "Oh....well, its OK, you'll still be fine." Or overhearing people make fun of the program I matched at, not realize I am right frickin next to them... I just worked so hard the past 4 years, and where you train is pretty much the only thing you have to show for all your hard work...It is pretty painful to see everybody else get what they wanted.

I know I'm being irrational, and I probably felt too entitled after getting the undergrad and med school of my choice...maybe it will be a good thing to be put back "down to earth." I guess I'm just venting, hoping to hear from someone who was in a similar position that things worked out...or to hear any tips for how I can get over being so down about this crap.

 

[microscp2]

don't feel bad, this is a transient situation,since you can always transfer. I did succesfully. Even in a community program, you may have the chance to do a fellowship of your choice. It will be harder, but not impossible. All I can tell you is that sometimes, if you look too good in paper, they may not rank you high since they think you favor another place. I was asked this question, about where else I have applied and I was so naive to answer with names of the programs and everything. Dah ! what I was thinking.

 

[mig26x]

just be careful people in your program dont read your posts here because then it could become a little bit of a nightmare!!! working with someone that tells everybody his bummed about matching somewhere when he thought he should deserve a better place (11 to be exact) wont make many people happy.

you can always give your position to someone who didnt match and I bet you they wont care where the position is or where in their list that program would have been. I can tell you as I didnt match in my first year.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

^^

Agreed with the above poster.

Also, I would be happy knowing that SOMEONE accepted you and is giving you a chance it be a kick ass resident! 👍

 

[Law2Doc]

So, its been a month since I matched at my #12 choice...needless to say I have been pretty down in the dumps since it happened. I know things could be worse, I know there are people without positions right now, who had to scramble successfully or unsuccessfully, but I still just can't shake this feeling that I got punched in the gut and am still trying to catch some air.

I have been trying to make the best of this situation: I liked the program I matched at, and going into match day I knew I would be happy to train there. That said, I did not see it coming at all...Maybe I got cocky, because I was getting interviews at top Academic centers, but I still haven't come to terms with the fact that I was shot down by 11 programs (including my home program) and matched at a community program, pretty much limiting my options for top fellowships and an academic career. I keep just obsessing over every interview at these programs, and thinking what I did wrong....I didn't think I was a rock star on interviews, but I thought I was articulate and likable enough to back up what they saw on paper...

But the biggest problem is everybody that is surrounding me. I'm in a college town, so pretty much my only friends are med students. And still all they ever #$%ing talk about is the interview trail and how well everyone in our class did in the match (It seems like I am the only person who didn't match at my top 4). Every time I accept the position I am in, I get knocked down a peg...constantly getting backhanded compliments after they hear where I matched: "Oh....well, its OK, you'll still be fine." Or overhearing people make fun of the program I matched at, not realize I am right frickin next to them... I just worked so hard the past 4 years, and where you train is pretty much the only thing you have to show for all your hard work...It is pretty painful to see everybody else get what they wanted.

I know I'm being irrational, and I probably felt too entitled after getting the undergrad and med school of my choice...maybe it will be a good thing to be put back "down to earth." I guess I'm just venting, hoping to hear from someone who was in a similar position that things worked out...or to hear any tips for how I can get over being so down about this crap.

Yeah you are being irrational and feeling too entitled. You thought you were on track to land your #1 choice, but your #1 didn't agree. Nor did your #2, Nor #3, Nor # 4-11. Sorry, but when you drop to 12, it usually means you weren't seeing things the way the programs were. You were cocky, thought that since you got all these great interviews you were hot stuff. But either you came off badly in person, or you were lucky to get a lot of the interviews you did, and weren't able to turn a foot in the door into a hail mary match.

On the bright side, you landed a spot by a place you thought was adequate. For all you know you were lucky to get this one too. Stop feeling entitled and slighted and start looking at this like the opportunity it is. You can still go far from a community place. I know a ton of folks in solid academic fellowships who got their start at community hospitals. No point feeling sorry for yourself for something that probably worked out very well for you -- you just don't realize it yet.

The match does a pretty decent job of slotting people where they belong. If you are tuned in, and get good advising, you have a better sense of where you belong and you probably get one of your top choices. If you are not tuned in, and go in cocky, well... you know the rest.

But again, join the celebration. Don't let foolish colleagues who think they are hot stuff because they got into a place they think they wanted rain on your parade. In 6 months, those folks will be whining at least as hard as you. In X years, you will all probably end up at equivalent points in your respective careers. Your train didn't derail -- it's still on track. Maybe a different track than you initially imagined, but the destination is going to be equivalent.

The only thing that can screw it up is you. If you go into internship thinking it's beneath you and that your co-interns are anything other than your equals, it's game over. May of them are showing up with this being a top choice -- they earned it, didn't tailspin and fall into it like you. Time to accept that you are who you are, and where you ended up is an awesome opportunity you are lucky to have because you came into the process either with very unrealistic expectations or with lousy interview skills. You got lucky. Understand that and the rest will seem more bearable. You got knocked down to the peg you really should have been at in the first place.

sorry if I come across harsh, but your disdain for the great opportunity you have makes you seem at least as bad as the colleagues who are dissing your program and hurting your feelings. It only hurts because you are agreeing with them. Lose this insecurity and you will be better for it.

 

[Buzz Me]

Maybe I got cocky, because I was getting interviews at top Academic centers, but I still haven't come to terms with the fact that I was shot down by 11 programs (including my home program) and matched at a community program, pretty much limiting my options for top fellowships and an academic career.

Slow down...that's not true at all. Just because you go to residency at a community program doesn't mean you've limited yourself to a non-academic career.

 

[peppy]

I have been trying to make the best of this situation: I liked the program I matched at, and going into match day I knew I would be happy to train there.

Good. I bet that you'll be fine once you start there. Once you get used to the place and get to know the people there, you may even decide that it all turned out for the best.

I still haven't come to terms with the fact that I was shot down by 11 programs (including my home program) and matched at a community program, pretty much limiting my options for top fellowships and an academic career.

In many cases (can't say much more than that without knowing what exactly you're aiming for) I bet you can still do what you want even though you might need to work a little harder to get consideration from the "top" places. If all else fails: you end up doing private practice and make a lot more money than the academics. Not the worst thing that could happen. 🙂

I keep just obsessing over every interview at these programs, and thinking what I did wrong....I didn't think I was a rock star on interviews, but I thought I was articulate and likable enough to back up what they saw on paper...

Maybe you didn't do anything wrong. I've participated in the candidate evaluation process for my program so I've seen a bit of the other side of this too. The people who stand out as really good or really bad are the exceptions. Most of the applicants seem like perfectly nice people who would be fine residents. So I think in many cases the rank list is very subjective.
Sometimes it just comes down to whether you happened to click with the people there. Something as totally arbitrary and random as who you interviewed with or if the interviewer was having a bad day could have made the difference in where you ranked.

Every time I accept the position I am in, I get knocked down a peg...constantly getting backhanded compliments after they hear where I matched: "Oh....well, its OK, you'll still be fine."

Those people sound like douchebags. The good news is that you'll likely never see most of them again. I think most folks are closer to the people they meet in residency than med school classmates. You usually have more in common with your co-residents and the hard times in residency bond you.

I doubt that you're the only one who matched lower than you expected. I'm guessing there are others who just aren't going to admit it. You've probably seen on this board how people will often post their rank list without giving away how they ranked the places so they can be like "I totally meant to do that" if they match at their last choice.

Don't lose sight of how much you've accomplished. Becoming a doctor at all is a big deal!

 

[justaregularmed]

Don't want to contribute to this guy/gal's complex.

 

[WEKS]

The only thing that can screw it up is you. If you go into internship thinking it's beneath you and that your co-interns are anything other than your equals, it's game over. May of them are showing up with this being a top choice -- they earned it, didn't tailspin and fall into it like you. Time to accept that you are who you are, and where you ended up is an awesome opportunity you are lucky to have because you came into the process either with very unrealistic expectations or with lousy interview skills. You got lucky. Understand that and the rest will seem more bearable. You got knocked down to the peg you really should have been at in the first place.

sorry if I come across harsh, but your disdain for the great opportunity you have makes you seem at least as bad as the colleagues who are dissing your program and hurting your feelings. It only hurts because you are agreeing with them. Lose this insecurity and you will be better for it.

Don't be sorry at all, I appreciate the advice. But just to clarify, I have no negative feelings for the program at which I matched. I said earlier that I knew going into match that I would be happy training in that environment, and I will bust my butt for them now that I know they saw something in me that so many others didn't. I am not ashamed of the program at all, and am proud to have the opportunity to train there (and certainly don't feel anything but equal to my future co-residents). I have no doubt that if I were to post here 3 years from now, I will laugh at myself for obsessing so much over this. But I can't jump to 2014 right now...

I think the biggest issue that is gnawing away at me is WTF happened at my top 11 programs. Did I come off cocky? Was I too nervous? Was I too eager/overly excited at interview dinners? These are things I will never know, but it is just hard to stomach that 11 programs took a look at me and said "ehh..thanks but no thanks." Just kind of making me wonder how skewed my self-image is if I don't even realize how I come off in a one-on-one setting with somebody.

 

[Rendar5]

I think the biggest issue that is gnawing away at me is WTF happened at my top 11 programs. Did I come off cocky? Was I too nervous? Was I too eager/overly excited at interview dinners? These are things I will never know, but it is just hard to stomach that 11 programs took a look at me and said "ehh..thanks but no thanks." Just kind of making me wonder how skewed my self-image is if I don't even realize how I come off in a one-on-one setting with somebody.

Quit the pity party. You're coming off as entitled and if you go into residency with this attitude, you're going to self-sabotage yourself, with possibly disasterous results.

 

[34140]

I don't think you are coming off as entitled or too cocky. You interveiwed at so many places, many many people don't even interview at 6. So you definitely had total right to think you'd match in one of your top choices. If I matched at my #11, I would definitely question myself on what happened as well.

Obviously you know that you could have gone to that program, thats why you ranked it, and you do realize that this is still a great opportunity for you. Don't feel bad for feeling bad. But just remember to make the best of the situation and just remember, that you are at a place that WANTED you!

Best of luck!

 

[Law2Doc]

... But just to clarify, I have no negative feelings for the program at which I matched. I said earlier that I knew going into match that I would be happy training in that environment, and I will bust my butt for them now that I know they saw something in me that so many others didn't. I am not ashamed of the program at all, and am proud to have the opportunity to train there (and certainly don't feel anything but equal to my future co-residents). I have no doubt that if I were to post here 3 years from now, I will laugh at myself for obsessing so much over this. But I can't jump to 2014 right now......

You may say here that you have no negative feelings, but your whole prior post (as well as the next paragraph of this post) is a "how did I screw up so bad that I have to go to this community place and miss out on academic medicine" kind of rant. You may not be saying anything bad about the program you got into, but the inference is there, loud and clear. You thought it was 12th best and are not ready to concede that that's where you belong. Well guess what -- that's where you belong. That's the best you are going to do. The match gods have spoken.

So dust yourself off and join the celebration. You either didn't wow any of your top choices such that they felt the need to rank you to match, or came off badly somehow, or you were more or less a borderline interviewee in the first place who didn't do much to unseat anyone ahead of you on the rank list. That's not uncommon. If the 11 programs you interviewed at ahead of what you got had 10 seats each, and you were not close to the top 10 for any of them or top 20, or top 30, or whatever was "ranked to match" for them, then you end up lower down the list. And that's part of why the match works. It pairs what you want with those who want you back. In this case, #12 was the first program that considered you a hot commodity. For everyone else you were rotting produce.

Again, I hope this isn't coming off as too harsh, but you sound like you need a wake-up call. You did the best you are going to do. It probably was the best you should have expected, and a lot of your pain now comes from grossly misreading the situation and going into the match with very unrealistic expectations. If you had ranked a dozen places like the one you are going to, you probably would have matched high, but instead of ranking places where you belong, you took a handful of hail mary throws. And came up short. There's nothing wrong with taking a hail mary now and then, but most of the time folks who do so have enough self awareness to know they are doing so. You didn't, and that's why you feel slighted. But you have no good reason to feel this way, it's just an internal glitch you need to put out of your mind. As long as you continue to feel entitled to that which you were never going to get, you are going to have issues.

Think of it like being a very average dude who asks a dozen women out. 11 are supermodels, 1 is a normally attractive woman. The 11 supermodels say no thank you. The remaining attractive woman says yes. But then the guy can't be happy on the date because she isn't a supermodel. Now there's no good reason this guy should feel he should be with a supermodel. He's not a moviestar or a rockstar or a producer. He doesn't have a six-pack or a fat wallet. But somehow he's got it into his head that since he got the opportunity to ask out not one but 11 supermodels, he ought to be able to get one. See how silly that sounds? That's you right now.

 

[markglt]

law2doc, will you be my therapist

 

[cowme]

Ehh. I think you have a right to be bummed. This is like any disappointment in life, like being dumped. It hurts, but You will get over it. The reason everybody is brushing this under the table is because, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. With time, you will see this. If this is the worst thing that ever happens to you, consider yourself lucky. Still, you have the right to vent on a public forum. But expect to get scoffed at by residents here (even though, statistically, many probably matched at their top choices)

I like the supermodel example above, but it's not quite the same. It's like being shot down by 11 supermodels all at once, and having a good girl waiting, but one that you don't really know anything about, cuz she was kind of an afterthought. All you are doing in the meantime is wallowing and doing nothing as a 4th year. It will probably suck until you start residency, and then you will realize that a DVT at MGH looks like a DVT at a community hospital.

Stop dwelling at what DIDN'T happen and start to think about what DID happen, which was match at a program you sound like you liked.

 

[turquoiseblue]

Don't be sorry at all, I appreciate the advice. But just to clarify, I have no negative feelings for the program at which I matched. I said earlier that I knew going into match that I would be happy training in that environment, and I will bust my butt for them now that I know they saw something in me that so many others didn't. I am not ashamed of the program at all, and am proud to have the opportunity to train there (and certainly don't feel anything but equal to my future co-residents). I have no doubt that if I were to post here 3 years from now, I will laugh at myself for obsessing so much over this. But I can't jump to 2014 right now...

I think the biggest issue that is gnawing away at me is WTF happened at my top 11 programs. Did I come off cocky? Was I too nervous? Was I too eager/overly excited at interview dinners? These are things I will never know, but it is just hard to stomach that 11 programs took a look at me and said "ehh..thanks but no thanks." Just kind of making me wonder how skewed my self-image is if I don't even realize how I come off in a one-on-one setting with somebody.

well i grad from a school where majority match the first time around despite it being an img school. around 200+ programs rejected me this year and I only got one interview in a prelim position if that makes you feel any better. i can only dream to get anything at all ever. i would love to be in a community program or anything i can get into at all. so try to look on the bright side to even get anything at all. make the best of it. good luck.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Think of it like being a very average dude who asks a dozen women out. 11 are supermodels, 1 is a normally attractive woman. The 11 supermodels say no thank you. The remaining attractive woman says yes. But then the guy can't be happy on the date because she isn't a supermodel. Now there's no good reason this guy should feel he should be with a supermodel. He's not a moviestar or a rockstar or a producer. He doesn't have a six-pack or a fat wallet. But somehow he's got it into his head that since he got the opportunity to ask out not one but 11 supermodels, he ought to be able to get one. See how silly that sounds? That's you right now.

While I agree, this I probably don't agree with.
Those 11 programs extended interviews to him... chances are, he may have auditioned at at least 1 of them (or 2 or none). Either way, they did express interest. One would likely assume that after attaining interviews from 10-11 "ivory tower" programs that they were an awesome candidate and likely would match at any one of them. After all, match stats state that if you rank 10 you should match somewhere. However, if these programs had never extended an invite, he'd likely have a more realistic view of where he'd stand. Also, the OP should thank his/her lucky stars he/she had the sense to rank what appears to be every program at which he/she'd interviewed..

 

[WEKS]

It probably was the best you should have expected, and a lot of your pain now comes from grossly misreading the situation and going into the match with very unrealistic expectations.

I see what you are getting at, but if this were true, my story would be far more common...but I don't think it is, judging by this tread. I don't think my expectations were THAT out of line. I was a very good applicant on paper (AOA, 250+ steps, top 25 med school), and didn't apply in a super-competitive specialty. I got decent interview feedback and was told from 2 programs in my top 10 that I was "ranked very highly," and "based on previous matches, in a position to match." I knew these weren't sure things, but at least it gave me some confidence (probably too much).

Over 50% of applicants match at their first choice. Then 25% at #2. Then 12% #3. Pretty much a coin flip each time. So, statistically, the probability of me falling so low was like losing 11 coinflips in a row. Obviously, I know that this was more on me and how I came off on interview days than random chance, but I don't think that my expectations were "unrealistic" given the feedback I was getting and prior match data.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

While I agree, this I probably don't agree with.
Those 11 programs extended interviews to him... chances are, he may have auditioned at at least 1 of them (or 2 or none). Either way, they did express interest. One would likely assume that after attaining interviews from 10-11 "ivory tower" programs that they were an awesome candidate and likely would match at any one of them. After all, match stats state that if you rank 10 you should match somewhere. However, if these programs had never extended an invite, he'd likely have a more realistic view of where he'd stand. Also, the OP should thank his/her lucky stars he/she had the sense to rank what appears to be every program at which he/she'd interviewed..

I think this should refer back to what Law2Doc said about an applicant being borderline and not wowing the program enough during the interview. I don't doubt that this happens. These "ivory tower" programs get thousands of applicants and will only interview a few hundred and then only rank a fraction of who they interview. Someone who started off borderline and stays borderline NEVER had a chance. It's ok to feel bummed. I totally would understand. But I absolutely agree with L2D on this. The OP probably didn't have a good feel of how competitive of an applicant that he/she was, saw all those great programs, realized he/she wanted better than whatever their 12th choice was and convinced themselves that they had a chance.

edit: okay, OP gave us his stats. you look that good on paper and you matched in your 12th choice? I think you have bigger problems at hand than worrying about how low you ranked.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

I got decent interview feedback and was told from 2 programs in my top 10 that I was "ranked very highly," and "based on previous matches, in a position to match."

This is a CLASSIC example of why one should never put too much weight on love letters and verbal feedback.

 

[Law2Doc]

While I agree, this I probably don't agree with.
Those 11 programs extended interviews to him... chances are, he may have auditioned at at least 1 of them (or 2 or none). Either way, they did express interest. One would likely assume that after attaining interviews from 10-11 "ivory tower" programs that they were an awesome candidate and likely would match at any one of them. After all, match stats state that if you rank 10 you should match somewhere. However, if these programs had never extended an invite, he'd likely have a more realistic view of where he'd stand. Also, the OP should thank his/her lucky stars he/she had the sense to rank what appears to be every program at which he/she'd interviewed..

OK, Ill amend my analogy -- the 11 supermodels let the dude buy them a drink (the equivalent of an audition).. From that he assumed he could get one to go out with him. Rest of the analogy holds, I think.

I think you put too much weight on the "match stats" that state that ranking 10 places means you should match somewhere. It actually is a misuse of statistics you are using here. There is no magic number here. The more competitive people will match with much fewer places ranked, the noncompetitive people might not match with many more. It's only if the OP is the average person, applying for an appropriately selected residency path that the average number should statistically hold for him. We don't know if this is the case. Actually, we can infer this was not the case by the result.

For instance, if Dude A picked a specialty that he was borderline competitive for, he might interview at a dozen places, but never tip the scale in his favor. Or if Dude A was a poor interviewer, he might need many more places to get the nod than statistics might dictate. Someone who was more competitive for that field, or a better interviewee, might interview at a dozen places and be highly ranked at all 12. In no case can you really take the position I'm going to rank 12 places so I'm a lock because statistics say so. That's a misunderstanding of how statistics can be used here.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

OK, Ill amend my analogy -- the 11 supermodels let the dude buy them a drink (the equivalent of an audition).. From that he assumed he could get one to go out with him. Rest of the analogy holds, I think.

I think you put too much weight on the "match stats" that state that ranking 10 places means you should match somewhere. It actually is a misuse of statistics you are using here. There is no magic number here. The more competitive people will match with much fewer places ranked, the noncompetitive people might not match with many more. It's only if the OP is the average person, applying for an appropriately selected residency path that the average number should statistically hold for him. We don't know if this is the case. Actually, we can infer this was not the case by the result.

For instance, if Dude A picked a specialty that he was borderline competitive for, he might interview at a dozen places, but never tip the scale in his favor. Or if Dude A was a poor interviewer, he might need many more places to get the nod than statistics might dictate. Someone who was more competitive for that field, or a better interviewee, might interview at a dozen places and be highly ranked at all 12. In no case can you really take the position I'm going to rank 12 places so I'm a lock because statistics say so. That's a misunderstanding of how statistics can be used here.

I'll buy this.
Just to clarify, when I said "should" I was stating there's a high probability, but not 100% slam dunk. Interviewing 10 definitely doesn't guarantee anything, neither does ranking 100.

Given how he updated us with his board scores, it's highly likely this individual didn't stand out compared to all the other 250+ AOA candidates... likely due to poor interviewing or coming off as cocky. Or, maybe rubbed some program coordinator or resident the wrong way. I'd seen it on some interviews in person.

End of the day, just go in with a good attitude, kick ass, make friends with faculty and your resident colleagues, be friendly with the staff... engage in research if u can... attain a killer recommendation for whatever fellowship you're looking to pursue... and no, it doesnt have to MGH cards either (example here).

 

[Arcan57]

I see what you are getting at, but if this were true, my story would be far more common...but I don't think it is, judging by this tread. I don't think my expectations were THAT out of line. I was a very good applicant on paper (AOA, 250+ steps, top 25 med school), and didn't apply in a super-competitive specialty. I got decent interview feedback and was told from 2 programs in my top 10 that I was "ranked very highly," and "based on previous matches, in a position to match." I knew these weren't sure things, but at least it gave me some confidence (probably too much).

Over 50% of applicants match at their first choice. Then 25% at #2. Then 12% #3. Pretty much a coin flip each time. So, statistically, the probability of me falling so low was like losing 11 coinflips in a row. Obviously, I know that this was more on me and how I came off on interview days than random chance, but I don't think that my expectations were "unrealistic" given the feedback I was getting and prior match data.

It might be hard to hear, but it may be worth asking at least a couple of programs that you didn't match at the reason for that. If you were going for a mid-level competitive specialty and had those numbers from an American school, there was likely some red flag (either interview or LORs) that was warning them off. Finding out what that red flag was could have important implications for the future.

 

[alwaysaangel]

It might be hard to hear, but it may be worth asking at least a couple of programs that you didn't match at the reason for that. If you were going for a mid-level competitive specialty and had those numbers from an American school, there was likely some red flag (either interview or LORs) that was warning them off. Finding out what that red flag was could have important implications for the future.

That or no activities at all. He mentioned his stats but nothing about ECs. I know people say ECs have no bearing on residency apps. But if a person did nothing but study for 4 years and has nothing to talk about at interviews - that can't be a good thing.

 

[WEKS]

That or no activities at all. He mentioned his stats but nothing about ECs. I know people say ECs have no bearing on residency apps. But if a person did nothing but study for 4 years and has nothing to talk about at interviews - that can't be a good thing.

Fair amount of research, no pubs...but a couple of posters and talks. A couple other student organizations here and there. Nothing too major on that end. I agree that it was most likely interviews (possibly something in my LORs, but I highly doubt that). I'm an introvert by nature, and usually take some time before I get people to really warm up to me. I felt a lot of interviews went fine, but there were definitely more bad-first-date type interviews than I would have expected, full of awkward silence and nothing we could connect on. It just sucks that 3 twenty minute conversations carry so much more weight than everything I did over four years just because I come off a little shy or anxious...I am not a flashy type of person. Maybe I just came off so plain that I was ranked smack dab in the middle of every programs rank list, which obviously won't cut it for matching at top programs. Oh, well. I appreciate all the comments on this thread, from the putting me in my place ones to those of encouragement.

 

[Law2Doc]

Fair amount of research, no pubs...but a couple of posters and talks. A couple other student organizations here and there. Nothing too major on that end. I agree that it was most likely interviews (possibly something in my LORs, but I highly doubt that). I'm an introvert by nature, and usually take some time before I get people to really warm up to me. I felt a lot of interviews went fine, but there were definitely more bad-first-date type interviews than I would have expected, full of awkward silence and nothing we could connect on. It just sucks that 3 twenty minute conversations carry so much more weight than everything I did over four years just because I come off a little shy or anxious...hell maybe even boring. Oh, well. I appreciate all the comments on this thread, from the putting me in my place ones to those of encouragement.

Well gee an introvert who had interviews that seemed like bad-first-dates full of awkward silences and nothing to connect on -- I think maybe you answered your own question here. Places only have a certain number of residency slots, and you had better believe that there are dozens of very dynamic applicants for every one. Numbers are important, but at the end of the day a PD is going to want both decent numbers plus all the social intangibles that go into making a good resident. I bet many were willing to sacrifice your solid Step1 AOA member for someone who managed to turn the interview into a good first date situation.

 

[Bobblehead]

We've used the interview to drop people down on a rank list from "guaranteed to match" to "unlikely to match".

Nothing worse than taking a chance on someone who's already made a bad first impression when they're supposed to be well rested, on their best behavior and know people are paying attention to what they say.

Imagine them with a post-call hangover, overworked and frazzled.

 

[cowme]

So let me get this straight:

You went on ~10 interviews at the top academic centers, and couldn't connect with any of them.

You impressed the hell out of a community program, impressed them, and matched there.

Dude, maybe an academic residency isn't for you. Who cares about them, why did YOU rank them so highly if you had awkward experiences with them? Who the hell wants to work their asses off and come home to do research anyways during residency? Blech!

Maybe the problem isn't over confidence, maybe you don't have enough confidence. Maybe you matched at your #12 because it was the first place you had enough confidence to impress them.

You have a lot to be proud of. You kicked ass in school, are going to be a doctor, and get to train at a program you LIKED!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It might be hard to hear, but it may be worth asking at least a couple of programs that you didn't match at the reason for that. If you were going for a mid-level competitive specialty and had those numbers from an American school, there was likely some red flag (either interview or LORs) that was warning them off. Finding out what that red flag was could have important implications for the future.

I'm going to second this, and specifically suggest that you talk to your home program. Tell them that you aren't angry, but need the honest truth so you can improve going forward.

 

[Saladin MD]

I'm going to second this, and specifically suggest that you talk to your home program. Tell them that you aren't angry, but need the honest truth so you can improve going forward.

I second that. Sometimes it could be something you didn't realize.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm going to second this, and specifically suggest that you talk to your home program. Tell them that you aren't angry, but need the honest truth so you can improve going forward.

While I think it's fine to do this if you really feel the need, I think this keeps you fixated on this way too long. Move on -- get over it. What does it matter why they nixed you? It will be YEARS before your interview skills matter again, for fellowship. Better to write it all off to crummy interviewing and just focus on the new job IMHO. Nothing you find out can change anything and it can only make you feel bad about yourself and continue this "why me" mentality, at a time when you should be celebrating a new opportunity.

 

[TwentyNine]

law2doc, will you be my therapist

If Law2Doc was my therapist, I think I'd shoot myself!

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

L2D, It could go both ways:

1. You never find out, you always wonder "what if"
2. You find out, now you know, you can do 2 things about it
A. wallow in self-guilt
B. move on with your life, work on what screwed you over, be a kick ass rez

 

[oldbearprofessor]

To the OP:

I agree with aPD that you should set up a meeting with the PD at your home institution. Don't go and say "why didn't I match here?" Instead say "I had a great time here as a medical student and might wish to apply (if IM or pedi this will be in 2 years, hardly a long time) for a fellowship here. How can I become someone you would like to match given that I am going to a community hospital for residency?"

This will spur the discussion you want without putting the PD on the defensive, and will, I believe, be helpful to you.

 

[NOsquid]

Blessing in disguise. Some of my most miserable med school classmates are at places USnews thinks are the shizzle. I know of 2 transferring to "lesser" programs because the abuse isn't worth the resume.

Don't let your ego beat you down. Go learn stuffs and help some sick people. I assume they have those even at your #12? 🙂

 

[ilovepath]

I heard that too... a few stories about jhu, where the status is a tradeoff for work w/o essentially the richness of learning from your cases.

 

[FiremedicMike]

law2doc, will you be my therapist

If Law2Doc was my therapist, I think I'd shoot myself!

Carry on..

(tried several times to embed the video, wouldn't work <shrug>)

 

[Law2Doc]

L2D, It could go both ways:

1. You never find out, you always wonder "what if"
2. You find out, now you know, you can do 2 things about it
A. wallow in self-guilt
B. move on with your life, work on what screwed you over, be a kick ass rez

While I agree with this breakdown, I still think after reading the OP's initial post that there is a 99% chance he will end up stuck at 2A if he does this.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I think we're being a little rough on the op. I know if I were him, I'd feel a little disappointed, puzzled and sad, too. There's nothing much to do about anything now, but we put a lot of emotions into this process.

Anyway, op, it sounds like you know it'll be OK in the end. And maybe lots of those people around you acting all happy about where they matched had similar feelings to you (and maybe were a little disappointed about not getting their #1 choice). As for closing the door on fellowships and an academic career, that might not be as true as you think it is. And maybe doing some mock interviews before fellowship interviews would be a good idea but nothing to worry about now.

 

[dilated]

So, its been a month since I matched at my #12 choice...needless to say I have been pretty down in the dumps since it happened. I know things could be worse, I know there are people without positions right now, who had to scramble successfully or unsuccessfully, but I still just can't shake this feeling that I got punched in the gut and am still trying to catch some air.

I like the idea about talking to your home program. This process provides no opportunity for feedback and it leads to cases like yours. While sometimes it's funny to see arrogant people burn bridge after bridge and you know they're in for a surprise on match day, more often it's just people who are awkward or don't realize how the things they're saying are coming off but NOBODY EVER TELLS THEM until the envelope does.

With that being said, just limit your exposure to backstabbing classmate BS and come up with a rationalization about how you didn't want to train at an academic program cause fellows would steal all the interesting stuff and it's all part of your master plan to go academic for fellowship. Within a few years you'll have rationalized it and be posting on SDN about how people at community programs get better training and are more secure in their egos. The human mind is an amazing thing. 😉

 

[Law2Doc]

...Within a few years you'll have rationalized it and be posting on SDN about how people at community programs get better training and are more secure in their egos. The human mind is an amazing thing. 😉

The flaw with this statement is that to some extent it's true. You won't see as many zebras at community places, but you probably will get a whole lot more intimate with the horses. You see this when community people in certain fields rotate through various programs -- these folks never heard of a lot of the unusual stuff that shows up in academic places, but show them something routine and they will be teaching you.

 

[WEKS]

It might be hard to hear, but it may be worth asking at least a couple of programs that you didn't match at the reason for that. If you were going for a mid-level competitive specialty and had those numbers from an American school, there was likely some red flag (either interview or LORs) that was warning them off. Finding out what that red flag was could have important implications for the future.

I just heard back from a chief at my #2 program. Apparently, I had solid interview scores and was 1 (!) spot from matching, and they went extremely shallow in their rank list this year...This was definitely not a place I felt like I had good interviews, so who knows...maybe it was a combination of being at competitive programs, lukewarm interviews and bad luck.

I could ask my home program what happened, but they dropped hints that I probably would have matched here if I wanted...but it was my 8th ranked program, so this one doesn't really bother me. I had them contact my #1 program on my behalf, so I think they knew I didn't want to stay there. I completely understand them ranking my classmates (who had pretty similar scores, and showed way more interest) higher than me.

Maybe I could still meet with them in person but I doubt they will say anything other than me not seeming very interested.

Oh well, the more I think about this, the more foolish I realize I'm being. While I do want a career in academia, I really could care less about research (I'm more interested in the teaching aspect). I doubt my career path will be this far derailed as a result of not training at a top NIH funded hospital.

 

[235750]

While I do want a career in academia, I really could care less about research (I'm more interested in the teaching aspect).

😕

Research is a big part of academia...in fact I'd say the two are synonymous. Look up your favourite docs at your home program and see how many publications they have. If you don't fancy writing papers, then I'd say you really aren't interested in having an academic position.

If all you want is to teach, being an attending at a community hospital would great for you. So, it really does look like the match worked out for you then 👍

Also, glad to hear you are coming to terms with the match process. Good luck to you and keep us updated

 

[Impromptu]

Part of your disappointment is because of your expectations. You expected to go somewhere else, had planned your life around it, and suddenly you were thrown for a loop. It will eat at you for a few more months, maybe even until you start your residency, but it will go away.

Similar to your situation I matched at a program that was near the bottom of my rank list. I had spent much of December through the match day looking up real estate, school districts, and all sorts of useful information about my top ranked choices. I began reading their newspapers online. And then I opened that match day letter and read my program...I forced a smile and joy in front of the others, but I felt like crying on the inside. I later realized that this was because of my expectations, not the actual program.

Another example is when I go into work and expect to be out by a certain time, I am happy if I get to leave early, but disappointed if I have to stay later. If I simply set my expectations that I will be staying until a later time every day, then I am usually happy because I get to leave earlier than my prior expectations.

I guess the lesson I am leaving with you is to lower your expectations of what life will give you and what others think of you and you'll surpass them more often and be happier than if you do the opposite.

 

[MonkeyMan28]

Hey, let's have some more compassion for the OP.

It feels pretty awful to match at the bottom of your list, or not at all. Maybe some of you don't know what it's like to be in this position. But I can tell you that it is very difficult post-match especially if you are surrounded by only med school friends. It's like junior high at best. My guess is that if you spoke to friends outside of medicine, they won't know the difference between the programs and think it's awesome that you matched. It's all about perspective. Once you graduate and move on, you'll find your situation easier to deal with. For now, I suggest you try to find things outside of medicine that also make you happy. You have a few months before starting your internship-- enjoy this time! Pursue one of your hobbies, go on a vacation, etc. You are graduating medical school and should be proud of your accomplishment!

As far as finding out what happened, I think you should definitely talk with your home program. But approach it from a positive perspective-- do not put the PD on the defensive. You need to work on making allies not enemies. You never know, you may get a fellowship or faculty position at your home school eventually. Don't burn your bridges.

Good luck and stay positive. Let people judge you by what you do next in residency and beyond, not by your match and your current disappointment.

 

[ilovepath]

Your experience is what I often thought was the case. In those parties all students appear to be in utter ecstacy, I figured a certain % of that is show. The school I went to had tons of the frothing at the mouth variety.

Part of your disappointment is because of your expectations. You expected to go somewhere else, had planned your life around it, and suddenly you were thrown for a loop. It will eat at you for a few more months, maybe even until you start your residency, but it will go away.

Similar to your situation I matched at a program that was near the bottom of my rank list. I had spent much of December through the match day looking up real estate, school districts, and all sorts of useful information about my top ranked choices. I began reading their newspapers online. And then I opened that match day letter and read my program...I forced a smile and joy in front of the others, but I felt like crying on the inside. I later realized that this was because of my expectations, not the actual program.

Another example is when I go into work and expect to be out by a certain time, I am happy if I get to leave early, but disappointed if I have to stay later. If I simply set my expectations that I will be staying until a later time every day, then I am usually happy because I get to leave earlier than my prior expectations.

I guess the lesson I am leaving with you is to lower your expectations of what life will give you and what others think of you and you'll surpass them more often and be happier than if you do the opposite.

 

[235750]

Hey, let's have some more compassion for the OP.

It feels pretty awful to match at the bottom of your list, or not at all.

You cannot group together matching at the bottom of your list and scrambling! One is disappointing, the other is devastating. To treat these as the same thing is really being insensitive to those who weren't able to match

And I think people are being fair. Really, what has this person lost?

Personally, I would feel more empathy if the OP was lamenting anything else except for his/her bruised ego. Like talking about the increased burden for his/her family of moving further way, or having to switch specialties to match, or having to scramble. Those are all awful things that deserve some sensitivity. I was expecting to read some horror story like that when I clicked on "1 month post since match...:/"

Instead, it seems as if the OP got the field he/she wanted and is disappointed at the loss of prestige. Sure, it's a letdown, but as Law2Doc and others pointed out, it won't negatively impact his/her future at all. A bruised ego will heal.

I guess the lesson I am leaving with you is to lower your expectations of what life will give you

I disagree that's the point to take away from this experience. As others have pointed out, many have it far worse than you. As with everything in life, appreciate what you have and be grateful. For me, that's what I take from this discussion...and also to apply broadly 🙂

 

[MJB]

Hey, let's have some more compassion for the OP.

It feels pretty awful to match at the bottom of your list, or not at all. Maybe some of you don't know what it's like to be in this position. But I can tell you that it is very difficult post-match especially if you are surrounded by only med school friends. It's like junior high at best. My guess is that if you spoke to friends outside of medicine, they won't know the difference between the programs and think it's awesome that you matched. It's all about perspective. Once you graduate and move on, you'll find your situation easier to deal with. For now, I suggest you try to find things outside of medicine that also make you happy. You have a few months before starting your internship-- enjoy this time! Pursue one of your hobbies, go on a vacation, etc. You are graduating medical school and should be proud of your accomplishment!

As far as finding out what happened, I think you should definitely talk with your home program. But approach it from a positive perspective-- do not put the PD on the defensive. You need to work on making allies not enemies. You never know, you may get a fellowship or faculty position at your home school eventually. Don't burn your bridges.

Good luck and stay positive. Let people judge you by what you do next in residency and beyond, not by your match and your current disappointment.

It's like I said in another very similar thread to this one.


Some people just need a WHOPPING dose of perspective. That's all.

 

[DrKnowLittle]

I could ask my home program what happened, but they dropped hints that I probably would have matched here if I wanted...but it was my 8th ranked program, so this one doesn't really bother me. I had them contact my #1 program on my behalf, so I think they knew I didn't want to stay there. I completely understand them ranking my classmates (who had pretty similar scores, and showed way more interest) higher than me.

I don't quite understand this, particularly in the context that you're now upset about ranking 12 and you say you thought you'd be happy there pre-match. From my reasoning, if you like 12 places, then you have a lot more work to do during the interview/courting process. Unlike a lot of my friends who would have been happy only at a few places, I had a ton of places I could see training and would have been happy about. It meant I had to do the "I'm ranking you highly" and "I could see being a valuable asset at your program" love letters to 3-4 times as many programs as my colleagues.

My point really though is that you want as many programs on your rank list to rank you as highly as possible, no matter where you see them falling on your own rank list, even your home program. It's admirable that you thought so highly of your classmates who wanted to be at your home program, but they showed you up in the "wanting it more" department. I'm not saying that matching at your # 8 program would have made you much more satisfied, but you let your guard down and slipped 4 more spots because of it.

If your argument is that you heard about the "top 3" statistics, the larger context is that there are thousands of applicants who are not doing what you did, which was to apply to a large handful of elite academic institutions. So when you fall out of the norm of how a large proportion of students apply and rank, it's reasonable to assume that the standard "you're going to get one of your top 3" argument may not apply in your particular case.

I'm really writing this because I think it's applicable to many after us who are going to be going through the match and I hope some of them will heed the advice. If there's even the most remote chance you could end up at 8 or 9 or 10, you have to position yourself to get as high on their rank list as possible. This includes telling them how enthused you are about their program and not telling them you are ranking a bunch of places more highly. Programs and their directors, as much as they would like to deny it, have egos and want to take in people that they think want them. It's a reasonable desire. Your goal until submitting your rank list is making them know you want them, without being annoying about it, regardless of where they truly fall on your list if there is any chance you could and would want to end up there.

 

[cowme]

The exception to what is Stated above is ones home program. Usually, applicants have a mentor at their home program call their #1 on their behalf to strengthen their chances. This inevitably should hurt your chances at your chances at your home program, but should strengthen your chances at your #1.

 

[45408]

Quit the pity party. You're coming off as entitled and if you go into residency with this attitude, you're going to self-sabotage yourself, with possibly disasterous results.

How is that an entitled attitude? S/he is being self-critical, and that's somehow being entitled?

In this case, #12 was the first program that considered you a hot commodity. For everyone else you were rotting produce.

The darker side of L2D...

I was at the rank meeting for our applicants this year, and there were a number of applicants that many of us thought very highly of that were on our list, but we didn't have to go that far "down" on our list this year to fill our program.