Oops...I messed up

[168232]

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Hello.

I'm an MS3, and before you click on your "back" option on the internet toolbar, I just have a quick dilemma to tell you about that I hope won't take too much of your time. I went to medical school thinking that I would go into general practice. So, that really means, I didn't study too hard in medical school. I did exactly what I needed to get by. And that worked for me well, that is..until I did my anesthesiology rotation. I absolutely loved it! It was the only rotation I didn't mind getting up early for and studying hard for. I became the gunner I never knew I was during that rotation- answering all the lecturer's questions, studying ahead of time, knowing *most* answers to the pimp questions...definitely not who I am on a regular basis. Now I'm completing my 3rd year, and everytime I think about what would really make me happy, I think of becoming an anesthesiologist. So, then, why not just apply? Well, that's the catch--I went to med school thinking I'd be in GP. Soooo..now my grades are crappy (GPA 3.0), and my Step I sucked (201). My school had 4 people not match into anesthesia this year, and that scares me! I know I'm way underqualified....but am I just being hard on myself? Is there a chance for me at all getting into an anesthesiology residency? If you're on the residency selection committee, or anyone who really knows, what can I do to improve my chances of landing a residency spot? Or should I go back to my outdated thought of going into general practice?

Thanks for any input.

 

[scotchnwater]

So you went in to an MD/PhD program planning to be an Internist or some other primary care practitioner? What is your PhD in?

 

[Gern Blansten]

Apply widely. You will probably get some interviews at some good programs. This topic has been hit multiple times. Do a search on it. You don't have to be AOA to get in.

 

[urge]

2 words: General Practitioner

 

[militarymd]

there's a program in puerto rico.

 

[amyl]

start studying for step two now. you need to rock that test (usmleworld.com)
do you have a home program? set up some aways in anesthesiology at some respectable places that lack a big name, go there and work your butt off. apply widely, go on lots of interviews, hope for the best....stick a prelim med or two at the end of your rank list. i know people that matched this year with much worse stats than you...you can match in anesthesiology. pm me if you want some suggestions on specific programs to rotate at and apply to.

 

[Salt Creep]

I was similar to you. No biology (aka memorization) background, thought I wanted to do FP; my scores were worse than yours.

I busted my butt and brought up Step 2 by 2 standard deviations. I applied to over 50 programs, got 14 interview invites, went to 12, and matched very high on my ROL.

I'm proof of what Amy is saying - work hard, improve, and generally be good to work with. You can talk about finding your calling in your personal statement - as long as you improve enough to demonstrate it's true. Prove you can handle the academics and show you're likeable.

 

[rmd722]

If all else fails...there are always CRNA programs

 

[Bertelman]

I had worse numbers and matched. Bust *** with what's left third year, and do very well on Step 2, like >220.

 

[168232]

Thanks to all those who replied with encouraging words!

ScotchnWater- I'm not a PhD student. I already have a PhD in immunology that I earned more than 7 years ago. I got interested in clinical practice and decided to go to medical school to become a doctor. I didn't have any idea about any specific field in medicine, just assumed FP was the easiest/fastest way to go.😕

Urge/MilitaryMD- Please let me know which residency program or school you are associated with so I do not apply there. Thanks for saving me money on application fees! 😛

Others- will take your advice & kick @ss on Step 2 😀

 

[urge]

Urge/MilitaryMD- Please let me know which residency program or school you are associated with so I do not apply there. Thanks for saving me money on application fees! 😛

I wouldn't want you as my resident. I wouldn't want you as my physician either. Does being a GP mean that it's ok to barely get by in med school?-No, only lazies will say that. I think it's disrespectful to pts. What kind of anesthesia resident do you think you will be?- A lousy one. Do the bare minimum to "get by" as you said. That attitude will not get you very far. There are countless residents who work hard. I'll take one of those over you. I'm sure Mil wouldn't want you as a partner.

 

[Surfer]

I wouldn't want you as my resident. I wouldn't want you as my physician either. Does being a GP mean that it's ok to barely get by in med school?-No, only lazies will say that. I think it's disrespectful to pts. What kind of anesthesia resident do you think you will be?- A lousy one. Do the bare minimum to "get by" as you said. That attitude will not get you very far. There are countless residents who work hard. I'll take one of those over you. I'm sure Mil wouldn't want you as a partner.

Does memorizing the intricacies of the Krebb's cycle and the Urea cycle some how make you a better physician? I can tell you that everybody I know would rather have a happy doctor as their physician than a genius who scored 260 on step I but is a complete A-hole. Most of medicine is pretty straight forward and patients appreciate a physician who is happy, listens, and doesn't act like a pompous jerk.

That being said, residents and med students should work hard. The diligence to work hard is a real virtue. But you gotta keep some balance and perspective.

 

[polyposis]

^^Why do people assume that those with lower grades are happier and nicer than those with high grades? Sour grape generalizations 👎

 

[A-non-y-mous]

I wouldn't want you as my resident. I wouldn't want you as my physician either. Does being a GP mean that it's ok to barely get by in med school?-No, only lazies will say that. I think it's disrespectful to pts. What kind of anesthesia resident do you think you will be?- A lousy one. Do the bare minimum to "get by" as you said. That attitude will not get you very far. There are countless residents who work hard. I'll take one of those over you. I'm sure Mil wouldn't want you as a partner.

Some of us worked our asses off every step of the way and still did mediocre. It sucks.

 

[Salt Creep]

Some of us worked our asses off every step of the way and still did mediocre. It sucks.

Precisely - esp people with a different background, who hadn't already memorized a bunch of biology before med school. I couldn't memorize lists to save my ***, since I was used to learning concepts and applying them.

One would think this would be the more important trait for a physician, but it is not for the preclinical years. Grades in the first 2 years are much more a reflection of one's ability to regurgitate lists of information, and to play silly games of "what am I thinking" with PhD's who haven't a clue about clinical medicine. They often say memorizing won't work, but the reality is that those who did it best did very well.

So oftentimes (so I've been told), students who struggle early on end up being better clinicians in the end. While we who thus struggled are often responsible enough to simply assume full accountability and say things like "I didn't work as hard as I could; med school was new game I wasn't accustomed to, etc" the truth is that the medical education system is subpar. It works though, because of the quality of candidates that emerge from the selection process (and repeated selection of exams and other waypoints). I do not believe some of the classes I got lower grades in reflect laziness on my part, so much as they do poor teaching on the part of a few instructors. Having said that, I do indeed share the blame, as I should have approached things differently- but I'm trying to say that a part of the blame is on researchers who would really rather not teach but are forced to as part of their tenure.

I was one who said that I probably should have worked harder early on, and my wife heard me say it one day. She said, "Could you really have? I remember the hours you put in; I saw you. I think it had more to do with the type of 'learning' you were not used to." She's right - I was not used to the stupid "guess my what I'm thinking here" questioning style of PhD's who know a whole lot about ONE tiny sliver of an aspect of science, but I don't think have anywhere close to the broad base we get.

So some people work hard, and end up being great clinicians - but did mediocre.

Furthermore, an advisor of mine said to me once that he has always considered it an honor to be called Average among such a group of such highly intelligent people. I couldn't agree more.

 

[scotchnwater]

Precisely - esp people with a different background, who hadn't already memorized a bunch of biology before med school. I couldn't memorize lists to save my ***, since I was used to learning concepts and applying them.

One would think this would be the more important trait for a physician, but it is not for the preclinical years. Grades in the first 2 years are much more a reflection of one's ability to regurgitate lists of information, and to play silly games of "what am I thinking" with PhD's who haven't a clue about clinical medicine. They often say memorizing won't work, but the reality is that those who did it best did very well.

So oftentimes (so I've been told), students who struggle early on end up being better clinicians in the end. While we who thus struggled are often responsible enough to simply assume full accountability and say things like "I didn't work as hard as I could; med school was new game I wasn't accustomed to, etc" the truth is that the medical education system is subpar. It works though, because of the quality of candidates that emerge from the selection process (and repeated selection of exams and other waypoints). I do not believe some of the classes I got lower grades in reflect laziness on my part, so much as they do poor teaching on the part of a few instructors. Having said that, I do indeed share the blame, as I should have approached things differently- but I'm trying to say that a part of the blame is on researchers who would really rather not teach but are forced to as part of their tenure.

I was one who said that I probably should have worked harder early on, and my wife heard me say it one day. She said, "Could you really have? I remember the hours you put in; I saw you. I think it had more to do with the type of 'learning' you were not used to." She's right - I was not used to the stupid "guess my what I'm thinking here" questioning style of PhD's who know a whole lot about ONE tiny sliver of an aspect of science, but I don't think have anywhere close to the broad base we get.

So some people work hard, and end up being great clinicians - but did mediocre.

Furthermore, an advisor of mine said to me once that he has always considered it an honor to be called Average among such a group of such highly intelligent people. I couldn't agree more.

I think some of the responses generated from the original post stem from the following couple of sentences:

I went to medical school thinking that I would go into general practice. So, that really means, I didn't study too hard in medical school. I did exactly what I needed to get by.

It was not my impression that people were giving this person a hard time because of his grades/scores. A lot of people take offense to the attitude of "doing what I needed to get by". Nobody is making generalizations about people who struggled in a class or two or put in a lot of effort to just achieve mediocre grades (my own experience in Micro comes to mind...)

I agree with your thoughts on medical education, and that is certainly an issue that is being addressed at medical schools across the country. One interesting solution (I think at Dartmouth?) is that each basic science course is co-directed by a PhD and an MD. The thought being that you can keep the basic science information clinically relevant by having the dual-input.

Another positive change stems from the propsed changes to the USMLE Exams. Now that Steps I and II are going to be combined into a more clinically-weighted exam, we will actually be (closer to) measuring the knowledge that is needed to be a physician, and not a lab rat (the way I think a lot of Step I is now).

Anyways...just my thoughts.