ophtho match 2020

[deleted898021]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Got some news for you guys.

The academic phallus measuring contest ends at the residency level, unless you're entering IM. If you're fine with being a hospitalist, life is good. Otherwise, you better be prepared for more IM fellowship academic phallus measurements.

I'm on an ophthalmology rotation, working with two former AOA ophthalmologists right now. They work Mon-Fri, 8 AM to 5 PM, and gross about 1 M per year take home by working in a small rural community 2h drive away from a major metropolitan area and seeing about 50-60 pts a day. As former AOAs, these guys have their pick of academic ophthalmology programs. Instead, both of them opt for community programs.

So, kids. Chill on this academic talk. Any ophthalmology match is awesome. The ones that try to stratify ophthalmology matches are insecure folks that need to go outside and get laid.

Need to tell @sab3156 this bro, he's been spewing this kind of talk for years, I remember last year he was hating on a DO who matched at Brown's Optho program saying they weren't any good and it wasn't an impressive match LOL, I mean idc if they are on probation or what, its Brown's Optho program for christ's sake, he also "re calculated" the DO optho match rate this year because he claims that "at-least 5 people matched at former AOA optho programs" so their matches shouldn't count, although they are now ACGME accredited so they could have gone to any USMD or FMG/IMG, smhhh I just don't get people sometimes.

 

[FrechToastFries]

on the real what is the practical difference between someone who matches in some decent ophtho program vs like some top tier program. at the end of the day both will prob make around the same money from clinical practice. patients dont give a **** where you did your residency. and if u really wanna become some top level rick from rick and morty level scientist researcher then why tf are you becoming a doctor just go get a PhD. bottom line is all this crap is just a ego measuring contest and people hunting out "prestige".

on top of that most of my friends who are doing their residency said the biggest factor for them when picking a program was location. sdn be crazy sometimes (most of the time)

 

[Whysoez]

I want to do my necromancy residency at Hogwarts since I think the PD there will look favorably upon my app for being a DO specialized in bone-mending.

 

[iamdamiancray]

Hahahahaha nice one

That is true. He is the National SOMA Vice President/ Speaker of the House. He went to USC for undergrad. He got an MPH. He later went to BCOM and kicked butts. He matched to Loma Linda Ophtho.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kardio]

What causes people to count as Registered, but not Participated? Assuming it's getting an interview / submitting a rank list.

 

[deleted898021]

What causes people to count as Registered, but not Participated? Assuming it's getting an interview / submitting a rank list.

Yes if you registered that means you applied unless someone registers and doesn’t even send in an app, but that seems unlikely, participated means you got at least one interview and submitted an ROL.

 

[estes8000]

It is very rare for a FMG to get an ophthalmology resident position in the United States coming directly out of medical school. Most FMGs that I know of have done the following: graduated from medical school and completed an ophthalmology residency in their home country, come to the US and done ophthalmic research for several years, often at a prestigious academic center, applied and matched to a US ACGME internship poisiton and ophthalmology residency position. Such candidates are typically outstanding academically, have many published articles in their cv, have letters of recommendation from well-known academicians and are completely fluent in English. These doctors are not "run of the mill".

 

[sab3156]

It is very rare for a FMG to get an ophthalmology resident position in the United States coming directly out of medical school. Most FMGs that I know of have done the following: graduated from medical school and completed an ophthalmology residency in their home country, come to the US and done ophthalmic research for several years, often at a prestigious academic center, applied and matched to a US ACGME internship poisiton and ophthalmology residency position. Such candidates are typically outstanding academically, have many published articles in their cv, have letters of recommendation from well-known academicians and are completely fluent in English. These doctors are not "run of the mill".

Coming directly out, yes, I agree. Though, I've personally worked with several residents from foreign schools that did not have any residency training in their home country. I have also worked with numerous faculty members that were graduates of foreign schools and did residency at top programs but didn't do residency prior to medical school (but like you said, they did a research fellowship with prestigious departments - I think this is the main thing that set them up). The fact that they actually are matching at programs that DOs can't ever get interviews at attests to the bias in this field.

Granted, I also know of a bunch that did residency at their home countries, but it doesn't seem to be a hard requirement. I know someone who applied this year and did ophthalmology in his home country, and then did a year of research at a top department - hopefully the match went well for him.

 

[slowthai]

Coming directly out, yes, I agree. Though, I've personally worked with several residents from foreign schools that did not have any residency training in their home country. I have also worked with numerous faculty members that were graduates of foreign schools and did residency at top programs but didn't do residency prior to medical school (but like you said, they did a research fellowship with prestigious departments - I think this is the main thing that set them up). The fact that they actually are matching at programs that DOs can't ever get interviews at attests to the bias in this field.

Granted, I also know of a bunch that did residency at their home countries, but it doesn't seem to be a hard requirement. I know someone who applied this year and did ophthalmology in his home country, and then did a year of research at a top department - hopefully the match went well for him.

But the thing I'm wondering about is, are these DOs doing research years? Consistently, across the top specialties, this is what I've found to be the most reliable backdoor for those that face tremendous bias.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

But the thing I'm wondering about is, are these DOs doing research years? Consistently, across the top specialties, this is what I've found to be the most reliable backdoor for those that face tremendous bias.

I know the last 3 ophtho matches from KCU and none of them did research years and 2 matched at traditional ACGME program (other was former AOA). Pretty sure they all had ophtho research tho.

 

[Xe13phys]

Coming directly out, yes, I agree. Though, I've personally worked with several residents from foreign schools that did not have any residency training in their home country. I have also worked with numerous faculty members that were graduates of foreign schools and did residency at top programs but didn't do residency prior to medical school (but like you said, they did a research fellowship with prestigious departments - I think this is the main thing that set them up). The fact that they actually are matching at programs that DOs can't ever get interviews at attests to the bias in this field.

Granted, I also know of a bunch that did residency at their home countries, but it doesn't seem to be a hard requirement. I know someone who applied this year and did ophthalmology in his home country, and then did a year of research at a top department - hopefully the match went well for him.

USC, Oklahoma, OHSU are top 10-15 places. Wills, Iowa, Miami have all taken DOs for fellowship and as faculty. There is no comparing US MD/DO to FMG no matter the nitpicking and gymnastics

 

[sab3156]

First of all, I won't be replying to immature and childish remarks. They can have the last word.

Second of all, fellowships and academic faculty positions are not the same thing as residency, and that is the topic of this thread.

But the thing I'm wondering about is, are these DOs doing research years? Consistently, across the top specialties, this is what I've found to be the most reliable backdoor for those that face tremendous bias.

If you're talking about matching IN GENERAL in ophthalmology, you can do it if you are doing research with the right people and getting your foot in the door at programs during medical school. Play the game and you can match SOMEWHERE. It will likely be at lower tier programs. The match rate is still terrible, but I think if you want more success you should really play the political game somehow.

If you're asking about strong programs, it's way different... from my experience working intimately with and discussing this issue for years with tons of people at a bunch of programs (top tier, mid tier, low tier), including PDs and Chiefs -

Doing research years and research in general is how DOs are even matching at lower tier programs. It's extremely rare for DOs even with great applications to get into strong programs. Wills/Wilmer/MEEI/Bascom/Iowa? Forget it. Their residency programs will take FMGs all day, every day, and throw the DO apps in the trash no matter what. I'd go as far as to say the anti-DO bias in ophthalmology might be more than some other ultra-competitive specialties.

I can tell you an anecdote that illustrates the points I am making. I have been a part of research at one of the premiere ophthalmology programs in the nation, and there was a PhD researcher there (with an OD degree, as well) who discovered and named several diseases, published insane amounts of research, and was extremely impactful in the field. He ended up going to a DO school. When it came time to apply for residency, the same hospital would not take him for residency due to the initials of his degree, even though they take FMGs (matched one this past cycle, as well). That's how bad the bias at some of these program is. This man had probably the best ophthalmology application in the history of the field. He did residency at a middle/lower tier ACGME residency.

I know people will jump on me and get really sensitive about this, but it is what it is.

 

[slowthai]

I'd go as far as to say the anti-DO bias in ophthalmology might be more than some other ultra-competitive specialties.

In conjunction with your anecdote, I wonder why this may be the case. I guess ophtho is even more prestige driven than the other most competitive fields. If I recall correctly, neurosurg, CT, and vascular exhibit a similar "we'll take FMGs over DOs" bias.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

In conjunction with your anecdote, I wonder why this may be the case. I guess ophtho is even more prestige driven than the other most competitive fields. If I recall correctly, neurosurg, CT, and vascular exhibit a similar "we'll take FMGs over DOs" bias.

The other two yes, vascular probably not. Vascular is very much a "who you know" type field, and it also happens to be one that not a lot of DO students get lots of exposure to in med school, so very few people pursue it out of med school. I suspect if a DO went all in on Vascular from day 1 and did reasearch, made connections at conferences, etc. then they would match very well in the field. This is all a thought experiment though. Don't forget that despite the fact that the integrated programs exist, most vascular surgeons are still produced through the fellowship route.

edit: I should clarify I mean that NS and CT are very much "FMG's over DO's", while saying I suspect vascular is not.