Opinion: Here’s where your GPA and DAT should be at to get in

[S_Diamond_DDS]

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Here are just some general guidelines, in my opinion. Of course, there are many more factors that are considered by adcoms than just gpa/dat:

Science GPA- 3.5+ (you’re fine)
3.0-3.2 (apply broadly and consider masters or post bacc if not admitted)
below 3.0(consider a masters or post bacc)

Overall GPA- 3.4+ (you’re fine)
3.0 (apply broadly if sGPA is higher and consider a masters or post bacc if not admitted)
Below 3.0 (consider a masters or post bacc)

DAT- 20+, no scores below 17 (you’re fine)
18-19, no scores below 17 (apply broadly and consider retake if not admitted)
17 and below (retake)
*18+, but with a score lower than 17 (retake)
*the exception to this rule is QR (and sometimes PAT scores) which can be lower without necessitating a retake, since schools place lower value on these scores

Also, a high DAT can make up for a low GPA somewhat, and vice versa. Such as having a 24 DAT with a 3.2 sgpa, or a 18 DAT with a 3.5+ sGPA. But a 25 DAT probably won’t make up for a 2.7. And a 4.0 probably won’t make up for a 16AA. And so on. So assume the extremes don’t follow this guideline.

 

[slimdentshady]

This is so great! Do you mind talking a little bit more about masters gpa/type of masters (MPH or MS)
thanks again!!

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

This is so great! Do you mind talking a little bit more about masters gpa/type of masters (MPH or MS)
thanks again!!

You would take on a masters and complete it at a high level, 3.7+ gpa, if:

1) you have taken many science classes and it is difficult to raise your sgpa up to a competitive level

2) you have taken many classes in general and it is difficult to raise your overall gpa to 3.0

If on the other hand, you have the ability to take more classes and significantly raise your sgpa or bring your overall gpa up to 3.0+, you can do a post bacc. Keep in mind, a “post bacc” can simply be taking more classes at your local college in a non-degree fashion.

I can’t speak to the advantages and disadvantages of the various masters programs, because I went the post bacc route:

I was initially a psych major so I took very few science classes. So I was able to raise my science gpa significantly in just a few semesters. My overall gpa was much harder to raise, but was above 3.0 (3.03 haha) at the time I gained my degree, so it was “passable.”

I encourage anyone who went the masters route to explain more!

 

[El-Rami]

Regarding the MPH, it wouldn't be "good enough" for medical school admissions, so I'd imagine it would be the same case for dental school admissions.

If you do a master's my advice would be to get an MS in a hard science. No one can really question its rigor if you do that.

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

This is so great! Do you mind talking a little bit more about masters gpa/type of masters (MPH or MS)
thanks again!!

El-Rami replied above.

 

[LeagueofLigTies]

Here are just some general guidelines, in my opinion. Of course, there are many more factors that are considered by adcoms than just gpa/dat:

Science GPA- 3.5+ (you’re fine)
3.0-3.2 (apply broadly and consider masters or post bacc if not admitted)
below 3.0(consider a masters or post bacc)

Overall GPA- 3.4+ (you’re fine)
3.0 (apply broadly if sGPA is higher and consider a masters or post bacc if not admitted)
Below 3.0 (consider a masters or post bacc)

DAT- 20+, no scores below 17 (you’re fine)
18-19, no scores below 17 (apply broadly and consider retake if not admitted)
17 and below (retake)
*18+, but with a score lower than 17 (retake)
*the exception to this rule is QR (and sometimes PAT scores) which can be lower without necessitating a retake, since schools place lower value on these scores

Also, a high DAT can make up for a low GPA somewhat, and vice versa. Such as having a 24 DAT with a 3.2 sgpa, or a 18 DAT with a 3.5+ sGPA. But a 25 DAT probably won’t make up for a 2.7. And a 4.0 probably won’t make up for a 16AA. And so on. So assume the extremes don’t follow this guideline.

Good post, I feel like 3.4 is a bit low for overall. In my opinion 3.6 is more of you’re fine. 3.5 bordering.

 

[MG14]

Good post, I feel like 3.4 is a bit low for overall. In my opinion 3.6 is more of you’re fine. 3.5 bordering.

I had a 3.43 oGPA. Got 11 interview invites and 6 acceptances. So I’d say it’s competitive and not too low. I did apply broadly though.

Only thing I’d note is no matter the GPA, (around or above the 3.4 stated) a well rounded person with other aspects in their application will fair a lot better. So to the OP it’s probably important to note that stats and numbers aren’t everything.
Other than that pretty accurate!

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

I had a 3.43 oGPA. Got 11 interview invites and 6 acceptances. So I’d say it’s competitive and not too low. I did apply broadly though.

Only thing I’d note is no matter the GPA, (around or above the 3.4 stated) a well rounded person with other aspects in their application will fair a lot better. So to the OP it’s probably important to note that stats and numbers aren’t everything.
Other than that pretty accurate!

👍 Noted in the second sentence

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

Good post, I feel like 3.4 is a bit low for overall. In my opinion 3.6 is more of you’re fine. 3.5 bordering.

When I applied, the average overall gpa and sgpa of matriculants across all schools was 3.45 and 3.55 respectively. Doubt it’s changed that much.

 

[LeagueofLigTies]

I had a 3.43 oGPA. Got 11 interview invites and 6 acceptances. So I’d say it’s competitive and not too low. I did apply broadly though.

Only thing I’d note is no matter the GPA, (around or above the 3.4 stated) a well rounded person with other aspects in their application will fair a lot better. So to the OP it’s probably important to note that stats and numbers aren’t everything.
Other than that pretty accurate!

Gotcha! I only applied to NY schools this past cycle so maybe I’m biased. Our schools have avg gpas of ~3.55 and up.

 

[MG14]

Gotcha! I only applied to NY schools this past cycle so maybe I’m biased. Our schools have avg gpas of ~3.55 and up.

Yeah, so I mean out of all I think like 67 schools we're looking at a 3.4ish gpa average. Which means 30+ (or half) of those schools will have a gpa of 3.4-3.5 or higher. So I see where people get the idea that the GPA is relatively high. Especially if they applied to only those higher schools. Like I said, I applied broadly and I mainly share my experience to show that GPA's around 3.4 you can be very competitive and get into DS. I definitely agree though that the higher the GPA, the better you set yourself up to be a little more picky in which you go to and has advantages to being able to choose schools with cheaper costs.

 

[2thDoc11]

I had a 3.43 oGPA. Got 11 interview invites and 6 acceptances. So I’d say it’s competitive and not too low. I did apply broadly though.

Only thing I’d note is no matter the GPA, (around or above the 3.4 stated) a well rounded person with other aspects in their application will fair a lot better. So to the OP it’s probably important to note that stats and numbers aren’t everything.
Other than that pretty accurate!

what were your other stats? When did you apply and to how many programs?

 

[Hi polo pick]

Good post, was expecting to see a classic sdn post with "anything less than 3.7 and below 23 dat means you have no chances" but overall pretty spot on

 

[MG14]

what were your other stats? When did you apply and to how many programs?

3.43 oGPA
3.3 sGPA

DAT:
19AA 18TS 20PAT

I applied summer of 2018 and to 17 programs

 

[em1012]

Thank you for posting this. I was worried about my 3.88 oGPGA and my 19/AA, and then the QR/16 (only one below an 18). I've applied to 15 schools so hopefully that will be okay.

 

[2thDoc11]

Thank you for posting this. I was worried about my 3.88 oGPGA and my 19/AA, and then the QR/16 (only one below an 18). I've applied to 15 schools so hopefully that will be okay.

I applied to 17 and I feel like I am starting to sweat lol

 

[em1012]

I applied to 17 and I feel like I am starting to sweat lol

Oh same. Trust me, me too. I think it is normal to be nervous though, you know? I just hope my hard work paid off 🙂 May I ask where you applied? and what state you reside in?

 

[em1012]

I'll just copy my info from another thread.
State of Residence: North Dakota

Shadowing Experience: 109 hrs - General dentistry 16 hrs - Oral Surgery 8 hrs - Ortho
Volunteering Experience: 30 hrs - pediatric therapy, 32hrs - Hospital ER, 16 hrs - special olympics/youth basketball camps
Employment: 1008 hrs - orderly in hospital, 1640 hrs (current job) - Patient Care Technician at dermatology clinic (was pursuing medical school until October which is why I have a lot of patient contact hours)
Research: 2016 hrs - USDA Human Nutrition Research Center
Other Extracurriculars: College basketball and track and field - freshman year, couple of clubs

School list:
Colorado, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Kentucky, Louisville, Case western, Nova, Marquette, Creighton, New England, LECOM, Loma Linda, Western University, Las Vegas, AT Still University AZ and MO,

We applied to nine of the same schools 🙂 Excited to see where we end up!

 

[em1012]

I have a 3.5 GPA 22 DAT and 18 PAT. Would 7 schools be enough/do I have a chance at getting interviews? (I am applying only to schools with GPA averages around the same as mine)

If it makes you feel any better I have an 18 on my PAT as well.

 

[FutureD25]

If it makes you feel any better I have an 18 on my PAT as well.

PAT is one of those subjects that most schools only consider as "pass/fail". That and QR they are more lenient on lower scores. AA and TS are the most important

 

[em1012]

PAT is one of those subjects that most schools only consider as "pass/fail". That and QR they are more lenient on lower scores. AA and TS are the most important

Thank goodness.! I was worried; those are my lowest. Everything else is 19+. Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it 🙂

 

[FutureD25]

Thank goodness.! I was worried; those are my lowest. Everything else is 19+. Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it 🙂

Many people agree that QR can be lowest, but I know some people will say you need like 20+ on PAT and other subjects. Just not true especially with PAT as long as its 17+ ur fine (for most schools, others though really value PAT)

 

[em1012]

Many people agree that QR can be lowest, but I know some people will say you need like 20+ on PAT and other subjects. Just not true especially with PAT as long as its 17+ ur fine (for most schools, others though really value PAT)

I think a lot of schools put emphasis on the RC score. For instance, Tuft’s shows it’s average along with only TS and AA on the website, and I know a lot of other schools value it a ton!

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

I have a 3.5 GPA 22 DAT and 18 PAT. Would 7 schools be enough/do I have a chance at getting interviews? (I am applying only to schools with GPA averages around the same as mine)

I recommend upping the number of schools you apply to to at least 12. Use the adea guide/explorer to identify whether the schools on your list are indeed oos friendly to residents from your state, rather than picking schools based on similar stats of enrollees.

 

[0Mik3cho]

Out of curiosity, are there any similar guidelines that might apply to graduate coursework?

 

[hoping4dmd]

I recommend upping the number of schools you apply to to at least 12. Use the adea guide/explorer to identify whether the schools on your list are indeed oos friendly to residents from your state, rather than picking schools based on similar stats of enrollees.

I am from Canada so I only chose Canadian friendly schools. However, there are schools such as UDM that I don't want to go to so I have not applied. Should I apply anyways?

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

Out of curiosity, are there any similar guidelines that might apply to graduate coursework?

If you mean science masters, then I’ve heard you want to keep your gpa as close to 4.0 as possible, because schools know these programs usually have grade inflation. 3.7+ might be a reasonable general figure, but I’ve heard this is low for some programs ha, so may be program dependent. I would also imagine there’s more factors that they figure into the equation regarding graduate programs, such as rigor of the program, subject matter, etc.

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

I am from Canada so I only chose Canadian friendly schools. However, there are schools such as UDM that I don't want to go to so I have not applied. Should I apply anyways?

How do you know you don’t want to go there? And yes apply to all international friendly schools, there are few and to stand a chance of acceptance you can’t be selective.

 

[hoping4dmd]

How do you know you don’t want to go there? And yes apply to all international friendly schools, there are few and to stand a chance of acceptance you can’t be selective.

Isn't Detroit not safe? I am applying based on safe places in the US

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

Isn't Detroit not safe? I am applying based on safe places in the US

You’re fine. The campus is off a ways from downtown. Also, realize that schools usually provide safe accommodations for students, so I wouldn’t base my apps on safety of the surrounding city.

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

Isn't Detroit not safe? I am applying based on safe places in the US

^edited above to “wouldn’t“

 

[Dentist_T]

Hello all, do you know if schools also consider bcpm GPAs alongside sGPAs?
I am getting pretty anxious about whether or not I have a chance of getting accepted this application cycle so I posted my stats and situation below. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

State residency: Colorado

My stats are 3.15 oGPA, 3.09 sGPA, and 3.58 bcpmGPA.
I had a very traumatic experience in my undergraduate and a bad choice of major freshman year to explain my low GPA, but my GPA for my last 40 credit hours was around a 3.94 (all science classes, mostly upper-division) --> all of which I write about in my personal statement.

Good letters of recommendation.

My DAT is as follows AA/TS/RC/PAT/QR/anything below 17: 24/21/30/23/23/none

I have hundreds of volunteering hours
roughly around 70 shadowing and 100 hours of dental assisting
I also have hundreds of hours of research experience

School list: Midwestern AZ and IL, University of Colorado, ASDOH AZ, University of Florida, UBC Vancouver, Creighton, Meharry, Temple, Texas A&M, UNLV, and Rosman.

Do y'all think I have a chance?

 

[0Mik3cho]

Hello all, do you know if schools also consider bcpm GPAs alongside sGPAs?
I am getting pretty anxious about whether or not I have a chance of getting accepted this application cycle so I posted my stats and situation below. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

State residency: Colorado

My stats are 3.15 oGPA, 3.09 sGPA, and 3.58 bcpmGPA.
I had a very traumatic experience in my undergraduate and a bad choice of major freshman year to explain my low GPA, but my GPA for my last 40 credit hours was around a 3.94 (all science classes, mostly upper-division) --> all of which I write about in my personal statement.

Good letters of recommendation.

My DAT is as follows AA/TS/RC/PAT/QR/anything below 17: 24/21/30/23/23/none

I have hundreds of volunteering hours
roughly around 70 shadowing and 100 hours of dental assisting
I also have hundreds of hours of research experience

School list: Midwestern AZ and IL, University of Colorado, ASDOH AZ, University of Florida, UBC Vancouver, Creighton, Meharry, Temple, Texas A&M, UNLV, and Rosman.

Do y'all think I have a chance?

Curious why you are applying to UBC Vancouver. And don’t bother with Texas A&M as an out of state. It’s tough even for OOS applicants with very high stats. U of Florida’s 5th percentile total GPA and sGPA is 3.34 and 3.2 respectively per ADEA Explorer. I would remove them from your list. If you are an URM, apply to Howard and Meharry. Community service in underserved areas would help your case there.

 

[Dentist_T]

Curious why you are applying to UBC Vancouver. And don’t bother with Texas A&M as an out of state. It’s tough even for OOS applicants with very high stats.

Applying to Vancouver for a few reasons:
1. Insanely good school
2. they drop your lowest academic year, that brings up my oGPA to about 3.6 and my sGPA and bcpm GPA significantly higher
3. Vancouver is gorgeous
4. really good volunteering/community outreach programs
5. figured why not? you miss all the shots you don't take, right?

Aww that's too bad about TA&M, I won't expect anything from them then. I have already applied to all those schools on the list on 6/18... Are there any you think I should add?

 

[macsak]

of course you have a chance...
how come no Utah?

 

[macsak]

of course you have a chance...
how come no Utah?

i'd add more schools, your chances at Vancouver, texas a&m and florida are not good at all, sorry

 

[Dentist_T]

of course you have a chance...
how come no Utah?

Well, that's comforting to know I have a chance!

I think the University of Utah's student stats scared me off at the time... though now that I know more about all these schools they all have high stats

I am applying to Rosman though which is also in Utah... Perhaps I should apply to U Utah as well.

i'd add more schools, your chances at Vancouver, texas a&m and florida are not good at all, sorry

Maybe I'll add University of Nebraska, University of New England, Howard, University of Utah? Any other suggestions would be most welcome!

It's a shame about Vancouver, Texas, and Florida, I really liked those schools.. but hey, you've got to do the best with what you have right?
I just want to be a dentist haha

 

[hoping4dmd]

Applying to Vancouver for a few reasons:
1. Insanely good school
2. they drop your lowest academic year, that brings up my oGPA to about 3.6 and my sGPA and bcpm GPA significantly higher
3. Vancouver is gorgeous
4. really good volunteering/community outreach programs
5. figured why not? you miss all the shots you don't take, right?

Aww that's too bad about TA&M, I won't expect anything from them then. I have already applied to all those schools on the list on 6/18... Are there any you think I should add?

They drop your lowest as long as you have completed 4 years of undergrad at the time of applying. Also, I am from UBC and it really is an amazing school!

 

[futuremrsDr<3]

Yeah, so I mean out of all I think like 67 schools we're looking at a 3.4ish gpa average. Which means 30+ (or half) of those schools will have a gpa of 3.4-3.5 or higher. So I see where people get the idea that the GPA is relatively high. Especially if they applied to only those higher schools. Like I said, I applied broadly and I mainly share my experience to show that GPA's around 3.4 you can be very competitive and get into DS. I definitely agree though that the higher the GPA, the better you set yourself up to be a little more picky in which you go to and has advantages to being able to choose schools with cheaper costs.

Hi, would you share what schools you applied to?

 

[MG14]

Hi, would you share what schools you applied to?

A.T. Still AZ
A.T. Still MO
Creighton
Dalhousie
Indiana
Kentucky
LECOM
Louisville
Midwestern AZ
Midwestern IL
Roseman
Tufts
UNE
UNLV
Utah
VCU
West Virginia
Western U

 

[axb4577]

Here are just some general guidelines, in my opinion. Of course, there are many more factors that are considered by adcoms than just gpa/dat:

Science GPA- 3.5+ (you’re fine)
3.0-3.2 (apply broadly and consider masters or post bacc if not admitted)
below 3.0(consider a masters or post bacc)

Overall GPA- 3.4+ (you’re fine)
3.0 (apply broadly if sGPA is higher and consider a masters or post bacc if not admitted)
Below 3.0 (consider a masters or post bacc)

DAT- 20+, no scores below 17 (you’re fine)
18-19, no scores below 17 (apply broadly and consider retake if not admitted)
17 and below (retake)
*18+, but with a score lower than 17 (retake)
*the exception to this rule is QR (and sometimes PAT scores) which can be lower without necessitating a retake, since schools place lower value on these scores

Also, a high DAT can make up for a low GPA somewhat, and vice versa. Such as having a 24 DAT with a 3.2 sgpa, or a 18 DAT with a 3.5+ sGPA. But a 25 DAT probably won’t make up for a 2.7. And a 4.0 probably won’t make up for a 16AA. And so on. So assume the extremes don’t follow this guideline.

Hi! just wanted to ask a quick question, I have a master's in medical sciences- biopsych 4.0 gpa, and I got a 18 AA, 19 Bio, 17 O chem on the DAT, would i have to retake?

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

Hi! just wanted to ask a quick question, I have a master's in medical sciences- biopsych 4.0 gpa, and I got a 18 AA, 19 Bio, 17 O chem on the DAT, would i have to retake?

I’d encourage you to make a post in the WAMC section following the format that they use. Because if you have great excurriculars, a great story, URM status, etc, these other factors of your app may make up for lack luster DAT scores. Were you planning on applying this cycle? What approximately was your undergrad science and overall gpa? The 4.0 masters is great, it can partially make up for lower undergrad gpas. Ideally, you also want a 20+ in all categories of the DAT to show that you know the material well, so if you have the ability to take your time and really study for the DAT again, especially if you were planning to apply next cycle, I would suggest a retake to improve your chances. If you’re applying this cycle, you can also consider applying and studying for the retake simultaneously, if you have the time. If you do retake, don’t take it lightly. It takes months of daily grinding to prepare in my opinion, and don’t take it again until you’re seeing practice scores where they need to be. Practice every section and use as many DAT resources as you can get your hands on.

 

[happyosborne]

Hi there! Thanks for making the initial post about DAT vs. GPA.I had a couple questions for you. I retook the DAT for a second time and got a 19AA/19TS with no scores below a 17. I really don't want to take the DAT again because taking it a 3rd time puts me in a danger zone since it'd be the 3rd time taking the DAT. On the flip side, I did graduate with a 3.98 GPA and a 4.0 science GPA. I guess my question is about applying broadly. From what I've gathered is that I should apply to more private schools too along with my in-state and a few public OOS-friendly schools. My school list only has about 7-8 schools currently. Do you think I should retake the DAT later and submit my app later or submit earlier with the score I have now?

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

Hi there! Thanks for making the initial post about DAT vs. GPA.I had a couple questions for you. I retook the DAT for a second time and got a 19AA/19TS with no scores below a 17. I really don't want to take the DAT again because taking it a 3rd time puts me in a danger zone since it'd be the 3rd time taking the DAT. On the flip side, I did graduate with a 3.98 GPA and a 4.0 science GPA. I guess my question is about applying broadly. From what I've gathered is that I should apply to more private schools too along with my in-state and a few public OOS-friendly schools. My school list only has about 7-8 schools currently. Do you think I should retake the DAT later and submit my app later or submit earlier with the score I have now?

Submit earlier with the scores you have now. And broaden your list to at least 12-14 schools, if possible.

 

[comprehensiveyam]

Here are just some general guidelines, in my opinion. Of course, there are many more factors that are considered by adcoms than just gpa/dat:

Science GPA- 3.5+ (you’re fine)
3.0-3.2 (apply broadly and consider masters or post bacc if not admitted)
below 3.0(consider a masters or post bacc)

Overall GPA- 3.4+ (you’re fine)
3.0 (apply broadly if sGPA is higher and consider a masters or post bacc if not admitted)
Below 3.0 (consider a masters or post bacc)

DAT- 20+, no scores below 17 (you’re fine)
18-19, no scores below 17 (apply broadly and consider retake if not admitted)
17 and below (retake)
*18+, but with a score lower than 17 (retake)
*the exception to this rule is QR (and sometimes PAT scores) which can be lower without necessitating a retake, since schools place lower value on these scores

Also, a high DAT can make up for a low GPA somewhat, and vice versa. Such as having a 24 DAT with a 3.2 sgpa, or a 18 DAT with a 3.5+ sGPA. But a 25 DAT probably won’t make up for a 2.7. And a 4.0 probably won’t make up for a 16AA. And so on. So assume the extremes don’t follow this guideline.

got an 18AA and a TS 19, RC 20 but my PAT is a 16 and QR 15 GPA: 3.7 Sci GPA: 3.5
URM female
What do you think?

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

got an 18AA and a TS 19, RC 20 but my PAT is a 16 and QR 15 GPA: 3.7 Sci GPA: 3.5
URM female
What do you think?

I imagine that might be enough to get into a dental school. So apply. Definitely apply to all of the URM programs.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

got an 18AA and a TS 19, RC 20 but my PAT is a 16 and QR 15 GPA: 3.7 Sci GPA: 3.5
URM female
What do you think?

Retake DAT.
Each cycle is as hard as the last one.

 

[deleted994703]

3.43 oGPA
3.3 sGPA

DAT:
19AA 18TS 20PAT

I applied summer of 2018 and to 17 programs

where did u get accepted

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

i have a 3.4 overall 3.3 science 3.78 masters 19aa 19ts 18 pat 16 qr should i retake the dat? it’ll be my third time retaking and i’ll only have around a month to study.

No, the third attempt should be your last. So study much longer until you are certain that your scores will be where you want them to be. There’s no shame in taking 6 months to study for it if you need to. How many times have you applied to dental school?

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

this is my second time applying. last cycle i got 3 interviews. 1 acceptance to california northstate which only accepts private loans and hasn’t even opened yet so i decided to reapply this cycle. but i can’t help to think that it was my dat score that prevented me from getting an acceptance from the other schools.

I’m sure a successful retake, demonstrating a significant increase in your scores, would improve your chances