Opinions on choosing a non-MSTP over an MSTP?

[docdoc007]

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Hey SDN community!

I have done quite a lot of reading on here about school specific decision making and I have gathered that NIH funded MSTPs essentially have the NIH appproval of quality of the program. I also understand that there are several non-Mstp MD/PhD programs that are good quality. I am wondering what are people's thoughts on choosing a non-MSTP over an MSTP?

I know specifics help, so in particular I am referring to thoughts on the MD/PhD program at UTHSCSA. Having interviewed there, I really liked what I saw but I am concerned about the consequences of not going with a more established program for a career in academic medicine (if I were to be accepted).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[ValentinNarcisse]

Don't do it.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[docdoc007]

A big part I am hoping to understand is why not? A lot of MSTP programs started off not being designated as such. Does this designation really hold so much weight? If there are labs I can see myself in, and good structural support then is there really a huge difference in terms of future trajectory?

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

I can't remember exactly what it said, but I saw a post from @Fencer that kind of talked about it. If I remember correctly, the majority of spots for MD/PhD students are at MSTP programs simply because they have the funding to give full-ride scholarships, stipends, and all of the other resources to more students than the smaller programs. That post that I mentioned above talked about going to programs that have at least 5 or so students per year because that is when they start to get a "critical mass" for administrations to really make decisions with their MD/PhD students in mind.

A big part I am hoping to understand is why not? A lot of MSTP programs started off not being designated as such. Does this designation really hold so much weight? If there are labs I can see myself in, and good structural support then is there really a huge difference in terms of future trajectory?

I would imagine that there are quite a few schools that would like to have MSTP funding in the future and are doing what they can to make that happen. I know that there are also schools that have lost their MSTP funding for a number of reasons. From my perspective, I don't see a huge difference if you think that you would be happy there and they cover all of your funding. With that being said, I would also imagine that going to a more prestigious school helps you out a lot when you're applying for residency and especially for your own research grants.

I am in more or less the same situation as you at the moment, however, so pretty much everything I said is from what I have heard from others and a healthy dollop of my own opinion.

 

[Fencer]

There are about a dozen fully funded non-MSTP programs that take 5-8 students per year. These MD/PhD programs are associated with terrific PhD plans, and some of them are more competitive than several MSTPs. Some of the PhD programs in my non-MSTP program are top 20 (and a couple top 5) in terms of NIH funding, and thus, some of my students have declined MSTP acceptances to enter into my program because they are intending to enroll into them.

See table B8 and NIH website:
https://www.aamc.org/download/321544/data/factstableb8.pdf
https://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/InstPredoc/Pages/PredocInst-MSTP.aspx

You can find that the median MSTP has somewhat in the 35-40 (based on prior years too) applicants per matriculant. Quite a few of the non-MSTPs had more applicants per matriculant than many of the lower half MSTPs. Lastly, some MSTPs have had gaps in their grant, so you might be signing into what you think is a MSTP but is losing it for a while whereas you might be turning down a MD/PhD program who is about to join the rank of the funded MSTPs. Examine the actual quality of the program not the reputation of the past decade.

What I had said in the past is that 75% of the MD/PhD positions available in the country (~630) are in the MSTPs. The majority of MSTPs have 5-12 slots per year, whereas the majority of MD/PhD programs are 1-7 positions per year. There are only 12 MD/PhD programs with more than 13 first-year positions, and only 2 with more than 18 positions.

 

[docdoc007]

There are about a dozen fully funded non-MSTP programs that take 5-8 students per year. These MD/PhD programs are associated with terrific PhD plans, and some of them are more competitive than several MSTPs. Some of the PhD programs in my non-MSTP program are top 20 (and a couple top 5) in terms of NIH funding, and thus, some of my students have declined MSTP acceptances to enter into my program because they are intending to enroll into them.

See table B8 and NIH website:
https://www.aamc.org/download/321544/data/factstableb8.pdf
https://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/InstPredoc/Pages/PredocInst-MSTP.aspx

You can find that the median MSTP has somewhat in the 35-40 (based on prior years too) applicants per matriculant. Quite a few of the non-MSTPs had more applicants per matriculant than many of the lower half MSTPs. Lastly, some MSTPs have had gaps in their grant, so you might be signing into what you think is a MSTP but is losing it for a while whereas you might be turning down a MD/PhD program who is about to join the rank of the funded MSTPs. Examine the actual quality of the program not the reputation of the past decade.

What I had said in the past is that 75% of the MD/PhD positions available in the country (~630) are in the MSTPs. The majority of MSTPs have 5-12 slots per year, whereas the majority of MD/PhD programs are 1-7 positions per year. There are only 12 MD/PhD programs with more than 13 first-year positions, and only 2 with more than 18 positions.

Thank you for sharing this information. It gives me perspective and helped to address my concerns/questions! Very much appreciated ☺️

 

[docdoc007]

I can't remember exactly what it said, but I saw a post from @Fencer that kind of talked about it. If I remember correctly, the majority of spots for MD/PhD students are at MSTP programs simply because they have the funding to give full-ride scholarships, stipends, and all of the other resources to more students than the smaller programs. That post that I mentioned above talked about going to programs that have at least 5 or so students per year because that is when they start to get a "critical mass" for administrations to really make decisions with their MD/PhD students in mind.



I would imagine that there are quite a few schools that would like to have MSTP funding in the future and are doing what they can to make that happen. I know that there are also schools that have lost their MSTP funding for a number of reasons. From my perspective, I don't see a huge difference if you think that you would be happy there and they cover all of your funding. With that being said, I would also imagine that going to a more prestigious school helps you out a lot when you're applying for residency and especially for your own research grants.

I am in more or less the same situation as you at the moment, however, so pretty much everything I said is from what I have heard from others and a healthy dollop of my own opinion.

Thank you JoaoMoutinho! Your perspective helped my thought process about this decision. 🙂 I appreciate you taking the time to share!