Opinions on type of salary first starting out: anyone work for VetCor?

[CalliopeDVM]

So why would I be stressed worrying about production when my base is guaranteed and I don't have negative accrual? What am I missing here?

Just that it's a fundamentally bad way to pay doctors, and it doesn't value the most important parts of practising medicine (that it's a team activity, and that it's fundamentally a service job that can't be counted in discrete units).

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[Caiter92]

Just that it's a fundamentally bad way to pay doctors, and it doesn't value the most important parts of practising medicine (that it's a team activity, and that it's fundamentally a service job that can't be counted in discrete units).

I’m assuming you’re referring to production as a whole and not prosal as a new grad with no negative accrual. If a person is someone who is going to upsell to make more and refuses to collaborate with others if they’re not getting paid for it, sure. But that comes down to a persons ethics and I hope most people are ethical enough to not be a dingus like that.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I’m assuming you’re referring to production as a whole and not prosal as a new grad with no negative accrual.

Yes, I'm talking about any type of production pay, whether 100% production or ProSal. Fundamentally, it's a bad way to pay doctors, and the experience and studies of the Mayo Clinic also bear that out -- they produce excellent results, with more satisfied doctors and lower turnover rates. It supports teamwork, shows doctors that you primarily value their patients' health and clients' satisfaction over profits, and avoids conflicts of interest ()and the appearance of conflicts of interest).

 

[SnowJ]

This makes like zero sense. You really think all those grads from the 80's have capped out at $40k salaries? I mean a vet I worked with graduated in the 70s and started out making in the $20k range, he's pulling in a whole heck of a lot more than that now, I mean he added in clinic ownership but let's just say I doubt he's anywhere south of $200k a year now.

Even those that graduated in the late 90s/early 2000s have seen their salaries increase a lot.

It just makes no logical sense based on inflation alone. Plus people leave jobs all the time.. some for better pay some for better balance.

I just don't see how your first salary will predict anything about your lifetime earning potential.

That's fair. I havent dug into what their source was because they didnt give us the slides or anything, and Im not in VBMA so I dont have access to their forums to check.
They felt confident about it enough to tell us to go for the highest salary we can manage and then get into our dream career later. I don't buy into that, but I thought it was an interesting consideration.

 

[DVMDream]

I will chime in with my prosal experience as well.

I have been paid on straight salary alone as well as on a prosal model.

The prosal model is more stressful in terms of having to monitor and worry about every single thing that happens. Everything.
Everything the clinic does, its location, its clientele, the discounts, discounted surgeries, payment arrangements (if they do them), working with rescues, the people they employee, every tiny little detail impacts your income. Every single detail. All of it.

First you should be asking how are these things paid out, do you get production for them:
1.Rx food, most places don't include rx food as production, to me it should count, but most don't count it.
2. Rx refills, most places don't count rx refills despite the fact you have to take the time to read the chart, verify the dose, verify no labwork needed, verify the pet still needs said rx, etc. You get to spend time doing all the work and none of the pay for it.
3. Free exams-- a lot of the clinics that pay on prosal are corporate and almost all corporate clinics have some form of a new client discounted or outright free exam-- does that get taken out of hospital funds or your salary. Most likely will be your salary, I fought to fix this a few times, never could convince them that I don't agree to do free exams, that is the bread and butter of your expertise, you deserve to be paid for it. And most of these discounted exams or free exams don't bring in any additional revenue so you get to tank your overall income by quite a bit seeing and doing these. They are stupid annoying and I don't know a single vet that likes them.

4. Promotions-- we had a senior bloodwork discount once-- so much senior labwork for so much less money and I did so much work and pulled in hardly anything on it. Wait until you get the joys of the "your dog's labwork is normal minus this ALP elevation that is likely nothing, but I can't promise it is nothing, so if you want to be sure it isn't we can do 342342 other tests to verify it is nothing, but honestly it is probably nothing" conversation 342332 times a day. Because if you look at an older dog sideways their ALP will instantly go from 20 to 555 in 10 seconds flat.

We had a heartworm discount once-- free HWT if you buy a year of prevention, again, that directly effects your salary if the clinic dumps the discount on your name instead of under the hospital payment code.

Dental month
Spay/neuter packages.

So finding out and being in agreement with how every promotion gets paid out should be considered. The clinic should not be able to decide to have a discount or promotion that will affect your take home salary without your agreement first. If they want a heartworm promotion then the discount needs to come from the hospital when invoiced out, not your payment code. But good luck getting a clinic to agree on this point.

5. Discounts in general-- senior, military, rescue-- rescue discounts are the worst. The place I worked at had agreed to do pyo surgeries if needed for $150-- do you know how much that cuts into your salary. And if you get stuck with the rescue all the damn time, like I often did, you are literally losing money and going into negative accrual (if you have that) every time you see the rescue. All of these discounts impact your income.

This doesn't include the other items-- where is the clinic located? I had an offer from a clinic for prosal based payment in a really horrible part of town. The clinic was $$$$$ and there was no way you would ever pull in enough to get any decent production if any production at all in this area given how pricey the clinic was for the location it was in.

How do hospitalized patients getting invoiced out? Do they change the Dr for each day the pet is there based on the dr doing the work that day? Does it all go under the first Dr who saw and recommended hospitalization?

Speaking of bloodwork-- who gets paid? The vet who recommended it or the vet who is calling with results? The place I worked I was the only full time vet so I was often calling back labwork for the part time vet but she got paid for it since she recommended it, but arguably, I actually did the work involved with the labwork. Recommending it is a tiny part of it, interpreting it and talking to the owner about it is the more difficult part.

How good are the staff at making sure things are put under the correct Dr? Are you going to have to be following up after every single patient to be sure it was invoiced correctly?

How good are your techs and how many do you have? This is a rate limiting factor in how many patients you can see and definitely affects your production as well.

Speaking of number of techs-- how often are you having to stop Dr duties to do tech tasks? Every nail trim, catheter you place, anal gland you express, medication you fill, blood draw you do, etc technically impacts your pay. We were so short on techs I had to do almost every nail trim at one point and told them finally I won't do another nail trim until they put that charge under my name so I can actually get paid for it.


Now lets talk PTO, sick days, vacation. On prosal (without negative accrual) most places just pay your base salary for your time off, which, ok, fine but if you had been hitting a ton of production and had become used to that you are going to feel the financial strain of taking a day off, it will reduce your income. Basically the way I see it, there is no such thing as appropriately paid time off on a prosal model and it is even worse if you have negative accrual because not only are you not making production but it is actually putting you into a hole you might not be able to climb out of when you get back.

Overall, prosal can work, some places it runs well. I am not saying don't do it. If it runs well, you have a good staff, good OM, good upper management, etc not only can it work well, but you can make a decent amount of money with it. But, if it isn't well run it can be a damned nightmare. An absolute damn nightmare.

 

[DVMDream]

Now, I don't know what people consider a "crap" salary. I get being worried about student loans and paying them back or saving for the taxes at the end. Trust me, I am in the same boat.

I have been on a range of pay anywhere from $75k-95k over my almost 5 years out from school. I can tell you there is no significant appreciable difference in my take home pay because a good portion of what you take home also depends on your benefits and how much comes out for health insurance, taxes, etc. I can say that my lower income has less taken out as my health insurance is much better than it was with the higher income places, so overall the amount missing per each paycheck isn't a noticeable amount, at least in my experience.

Now as salaries get higher, yeah, you are going to notice a difference between $75k and $120k.

Having said that, I make less now than I have in the past. (Again less taken out of each paycheck though due to better benefits).
I have expense wise:
1. Mortgage
2. Car payment
3. Car insurance
4. Private student loans
5. Federal student loans
6. HOA
7. The typical utilities: electric, gas, home security, internet, cable/satellite, etc
8. The usual--- food, clothes, household needs, cleaning supplies, etc.

Despite all of this and not making what most would consider a "non-crap" salary, I am still dumping at least a few hundred sometimes up to $1000 into savings at the end of each month. Yes, not paying federal student loans for the last bit has helped some, but even then I was able to dump a decent amount into savings each month. I promise, you can still make it with a "lesser" salary. Yes, I won't save up as much or as fast as someone making $120k, but as long as you aren't a big spender outside of typical life, the occasional vacation, etc you will still save up money for tax purposes in 25 years.

Salary is important, but also do take into consideration your mental health. No amount of money is worth working at a place that doesn't fit for you. Find a good fit as best as you can for you physically, mentally and emotionally first, then financially. And no, I am not advocating to just settle for a salary, do some negotiations, know you are worthy to get paid a good amount, don't settle, but don't get blinded by big numbers either.

ETA: I don't have any children, spouse, etc that is tapping into any of my income either so those are things to think about as well. Children and SO's can be money pits. I only have a single cat bidding for some of my income-- and she takes enough of it as times as it is.

 

[finnickthedog]

Now, I don't know what people consider a "crap" salary. I get being worried about student loans and paying them back or saving for the taxes at the end. Trust me, I am in the same boat...

I don't recall if I used the term crap, I may have. But to be clear on that, I was responding to the idea that a new grad should just be worrying about mentorship instead of salary. Both are important.

If I hypothetically had to choose between a crap salary and crap mentorship... I do have bills to pay.

I also think from my limited experience that a lot of times you don't actually know what mentorship is going to be like until you start working there and pretty much every practice will tell you that they offer great mentorship. So I question making mentorship the primary factor in deciding for that reason as well.

But that doesn't mean I wouldn't take a lower salary for a better fit if those were the options I was given or that I think salary is the only thing that matters. Just wanted to clarify on that point.

 

[DVMDream]

I don't recall if I used the term crap, I may have. But to be clear on that, I was responding to the idea that a new grad should just be worrying about mentorship instead of salary. Both are important.

If I hypothetically had to choose between a crap salary and crap mentorship... I do have bills to pay.

I also think from my limited experience that a lot of times you don't actually know what mentorship is going to be like until you start working there and pretty much every practice will tell you that they offer great mentorship. So I question making mentorship the primary factor in deciding for that reason as well.

But that doesn't mean I wouldn't take a lower salary for a better fit if those were the options I was given or that I think salary is the only thing that matters. Just wanted to clarify on that point.

I am of the opinion that a new grad should be worrying about the things that will make a job comfortable. Decent time for each appointment, enough support staff, enough reception staff, non-toxic environment (ask to hang out for a week and see how the clinic flows, most places can upkeep appearances for a day, not a week), how are work-ins determined (just slammed in no matter what or dr has an actual say), do they give drs a lunch break and if so do they actually get that break, do they allow for a period of time to work on callbacks to clients, how long are the hours, what is the schedule, what do you want in a schedule, do you need days off together or do you not care, etc. These are the things that mean more than mentorship or salary. You can figure out most things or find colleagues to bounce ideas from even if they aren't in the physical building (so many facebook groups or heck just phone/text a vet friend). Direct in person mentoring is better, IMO, for surgical things.

In a field filled with depression/suicide, the above things are what is important. Then consider in salary from there. An extra $20k sound great, but not if they expect you elbows deep on a bleeding splenectomy day 1 without another vet in sight for direction.

 

[turnandburn]

That's fair. I havent dug into what their source was because they didnt give us the slides or anything, and Im not in VBMA so I dont have access to their forums to check.
They felt confident about it enough to tell us to go for the highest salary we can manage and then get into our dream career later. I don't buy into that, but I thought it was an interesting consideration.

It is an interesting position to take and I'd love to have heard about *why* exactly that was.

 

[turnandburn]

I will chime in with my prosal experience as well.

I have been paid on straight salary alone as well as on a prosal model.

The prosal model is more stressful in terms of having to monitor and worry about every single thing that happens. Everything.
Everything the clinic does, its location, its clientele, the discounts, discounted surgeries, payment arrangements (if they do them), working with rescues, the people they employee, every tiny little detail impacts your income. Every single detail. All of it.

First you should be asking how are these things paid out, do you get production for them:
1.Rx food, most places don't include rx food as production, to me it should count, but most don't count it.
2. Rx refills, most places don't count rx refills despite the fact you have to take the time to read the chart, verify the dose, verify no labwork needed, verify the pet still needs said rx, etc. You get to spend time doing all the work and none of the pay for it.
3. Free exams-- a lot of the clinics that pay on prosal are corporate and almost all corporate clinics have some form of a new client discounted or outright free exam-- does that get taken out of hospital funds or your salary. Most likely will be your salary, I fought to fix this a few times, never could convince them that I don't agree to do free exams, that is the bread and butter of your expertise, you deserve to be paid for it. And most of these discounted exams or free exams don't bring in any additional revenue so you get to tank your overall income by quite a bit seeing and doing these. They are stupid annoying and I don't know a single vet that likes them.

4. Promotions-- we had a senior bloodwork discount once-- so much senior labwork for so much less money and I did so much work and pulled in hardly anything on it. Wait until you get the joys of the "your dog's labwork is normal minus this ALP elevation that is likely nothing, but I can't promise it is nothing, so if you want to be sure it isn't we can do 342342 other tests to verify it is nothing, but honestly it is probably nothing" conversation 342332 times a day. Because if you look at an older dog sideways their ALP will instantly go from 20 to 555 in 10 seconds flat.

We had a heartworm discount once-- free HWT if you buy a year of prevention, again, that directly effects your salary if the clinic dumps the discount on your name instead of under the hospital payment code.

Dental month
Spay/neuter packages.

So finding out and being in agreement with how every promotion gets paid out should be considered. The clinic should not be able to decide to have a discount or promotion that will affect your take home salary without your agreement first. If they want a heartworm promotion then the discount needs to come from the hospital when invoiced out, not your payment code. But good luck getting a clinic to agree on this point.

5. Discounts in general-- senior, military, rescue-- rescue discounts are the worst. The place I worked at had agreed to do pyo surgeries if needed for $150-- do you know how much that cuts into your salary. And if you get stuck with the rescue all the damn time, like I often did, you are literally losing money and going into negative accrual (if you have that) every time you see the rescue. All of these discounts impact your income.

This doesn't include the other items-- where is the clinic located? I had an offer from a clinic for prosal based payment in a really horrible part of town. The clinic was $$$$$ and there was no way you would ever pull in enough to get any decent production if any production at all in this area given how pricey the clinic was for the location it was in.

How do hospitalized patients getting invoiced out? Do they change the Dr for each day the pet is there based on the dr doing the work that day? Does it all go under the first Dr who saw and recommended hospitalization?

Speaking of bloodwork-- who gets paid? The vet who recommended it or the vet who is calling with results? The place I worked I was the only full time vet so I was often calling back labwork for the part time vet but she got paid for it since she recommended it, but arguably, I actually did the work involved with the labwork. Recommending it is a tiny part of it, interpreting it and talking to the owner about it is the more difficult part.

How good are the staff at making sure things are put under the correct Dr? Are you going to have to be following up after every single patient to be sure it was invoiced correctly?

How good are your techs and how many do you have? This is a rate limiting factor in how many patients you can see and definitely affects your production as well.

Speaking of number of techs-- how often are you having to stop Dr duties to do tech tasks? Every nail trim, catheter you place, anal gland you express, medication you fill, blood draw you do, etc technically impacts your pay. We were so short on techs I had to do almost every nail trim at one point and told them finally I won't do another nail trim until they put that charge under my name so I can actually get paid for it.


Now lets talk PTO, sick days, vacation. On prosal (without negative accrual) most places just pay your base salary for your time off, which, ok, fine but if you had been hitting a ton of production and had become used to that you are going to feel the financial strain of taking a day off, it will reduce your income. Basically the way I see it, there is no such thing as appropriately paid time off on a prosal model and it is even worse if you have negative accrual because not only are you not making production but it is actually putting you into a hole you might not be able to climb out of when you get back.

Overall, prosal can work, some places it runs well. I am not saying don't do it. If it runs well, you have a good staff, good OM, good upper management, etc not only can it work well, but you can make a decent amount of money with it. But, if it isn't well run it can be a damned nightmare. An absolute damn nightmare.

These are all really good points! And exactly why I *personally* prefer salary.

 

[turnandburn]

I am of the opinion that a new grad should be worrying about the things that will make a job comfortable. Decent time for each appointment, enough support staff, enough reception staff, non-toxic environment (ask to hang out for a week and see how the clinic flows, most places can upkeep appearances for a day, not a week), how are work-ins determined (just slammed in no matter what or dr has an actual say), do they give drs a lunch break and if so do they actually get that break, do they allow for a period of time to work on callbacks to clients, how long are the hours, what is the schedule, what do you want in a schedule, do you need days off together or do you not care, etc. These are the things that mean more than mentorship or salary. You can figure out most things or find colleagues to bounce ideas from even if they aren't in the physical building (so many facebook groups or heck just phone/text a vet friend). Direct in person mentoring is better, IMO, for surgical things.

In a field filled with depression/suicide, the above things are what is important. Then consider in salary from there. An extra $20k sound great, but not if they expect you elbows deep on a bleeding splenectomy day 1 without another vet in sight for direction.

Yes to all of this. When you are a new grad, flying solo, and suddenly you are in charge of all the medical decisions and there is no one looking over your shoulder to make sure you don't screw up, it's a totally different experience than being in school. You will be slow, you will make mistakes, and you will learn a massive amount your first year. IMO, it's worth it to take a (reasonable) hit on income to have a clinic that is going to be a good fit, help you grow, have great support staff and adequate time for appointments. You can always negotiate for a higher salary later.

Full disclosure: I may be heavily biased as my first job out of school I had an amazing, caring mentor that was always available for questions/advice. I learned a tremendous amount there. I realize not everyone is going to have that experience.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I am of the opinion that a new grad should be worrying about the things that will make a job comfortable. Decent time for each appointment, enough support staff, enough reception staff, non-toxic environment (ask to hang out for a week and see how the clinic flows, most places can upkeep appearances for a day, not a week), how are work-ins determined (just slammed in no matter what or dr has an actual say), do they give drs a lunch break and if so do they actually get that break, do they allow for a period of time to work on callbacks to clients, how long are the hours, what is the schedule, what do you want in a schedule, do you need days off together or do you not care, etc. These are the things that mean more than mentorship or salary. You can figure out most things or find colleagues to bounce ideas from even if they aren't in the physical building (so many facebook groups or heck just phone/text a vet friend). Direct in person mentoring is better, IMO, for surgical things.

In a field filled with depression/suicide, the above things are what is important. Then consider in salary from there. An extra $20k sound great, but not if they expect you elbows deep on a bleeding splenectomy day 1 without another vet in sight for direction.

This 100%. A high standard of medicine multidoctor practice where QOL of the doctors is fiercely protected, and is a great collegial environment with appropriate amount of support staff who are well trained but don’t overstep = what I would go for. If you’re busy enough and you practice good medicine, the money will follow regardless of pay structure since at the end of the day, production based or straight salary, your salary will get adjusted in most cases based on how much you produce.

I never trust anyone who says they will mentor. There’s a good chance they either actually won’t or they’re not worthy themselves of being a mentor. I do think ideally for a new grad, you work in a multi doctor practice where there are multiple doctors in the building (at least one other at all times) so you have a plethora of possible mentors/experienced doctors to bounce ideas off of.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Now, I don't know what people consider a "crap" salary. I get being worried about student loans and paying them back or saving for the taxes at the end. Trust me, I am in the same boat.

I have been on a range of pay anywhere from $75k-95k over my almost 5 years out from school. I can tell you there is no significant appreciable difference in my take home pay because a good portion of what you take home also depends on your benefits and how much comes out for health insurance, taxes, etc. I can say that my lower income has less taken out as my health insurance is much better than it was with the higher income places, so overall the amount missing per each paycheck isn't a noticeable amount, at least in my experience.

Now as salaries get higher, yeah, you are going to notice a difference between $75k and $120k.

Having said that, I make less now than I have in the past. (Again less taken out of each paycheck though due to better benefits).
I have expense wise:
1. Mortgage
2. Car payment
3. Car insurance
4. Private student loans
5. Federal student loans
6. HOA
7. The typical utilities: electric, gas, home security, internet, cable/satellite, etc
8. The usual--- food, clothes, household needs, cleaning supplies, etc.

Despite all of this and not making what most would consider a "non-crap" salary, I am still dumping at least a few hundred sometimes up to $1000 into savings at the end of each month. Yes, not paying federal student loans for the last bit has helped some, but even then I was able to dump a decent amount into savings each month. I promise, you can still make it with a "lesser" salary. Yes, I won't save up as much or as fast as someone making $120k, but as long as you aren't a big spender outside of typical life, the occasional vacation, etc you will still save up money for tax purposes in 25 years.

Salary is important, but also do take into consideration your mental health. No amount of money is worth working at a place that doesn't fit for you. Find a good fit as best as you can for you physically, mentally and emotionally first, then financially. And no, I am not advocating to just settle for a salary, do some negotiations, know you are worthy to get paid a good amount, don't settle, but don't get blinded by big numbers either.

ETA: I don't have any children, spouse, etc that is tapping into any of my income either so those are things to think about as well. Children and SO's can be money pits. I only have a single cat bidding for some of my income-- and she takes enough of it as times as it is.

cost of living matters a lot too.

I would call 75-95k crap salary in the current market for me, BUT I live in a state where the median home price was like $430k the same year that it was $280k in your home state. Eeeeeverything is expensive where I live.
So if the home price of 50% more expensive is an indication of overall cost of living, it makes sense that my vision of appropriate pay is $120-140k for the same time period. I mean, a vomiting puppy that just needed some sq fluids and cerenia after having minimal bloodwork and rads would cost $1000 at my clinic. That would be ludicrous in a lot of other places.

 

[DVMDream]

cost of living matters a lot too.

I would call 75-95k crap salary in the current market for me, BUT I live in a state where the median home price was like $430k the same year that it was $280k in your home state. Eeeeeverything is expensive where I live.
So if the home price of 50% more expensive is an indication of overall cost of living, it makes sense that my vision of appropriate pay is $120-140k for the same time period. I mean, a vomiting puppy that just needed some sq fluids and cerenia after having minimal bloodwork and rads would cost $1000 at my clinic. That would be ludicrous in a lot of other places.

That same work up would cost $1000 here too despite our lower cost of living.

 

[DVMDream]

cost of living matters a lot too.

I would call 75-95k crap salary in the current market for me, BUT I live in a state where the median home price was like $430k the same year that it was $280k in your home state. Eeeeeverything is expensive where I live.
So if the home price of 50% more expensive is an indication of overall cost of living, it makes sense that my vision of appropriate pay is $120-140k for the same time period. I mean, a vomiting puppy that just needed some sq fluids and cerenia after having minimal bloodwork and rads would cost $1000 at my clinic. That would be ludicrous in a lot of other places.

Yeah it is all relative to location and things too. I'd love to move to a different state one day but I can't beat the COL here. So, we'll see, it'll happen, eventually.

 

[turnandburn]

That would be a really low salary for my part of the country as well, especially with your experience. And the COL here is very average. Maybe time to ask for a raise?

 

[DVMDream]

That would be a really low salary for my part of the country as well, especially with your experience. And the COL here is very average. Maybe time to ask for a raise?

It isn't going to happen with were I'm working. I'm ok with it though as I'm no longer in clinical medicine so I'm happy with my current situation.

 

[turnandburn]

It isn't going to happen with were I'm working. I'm ok with it though as I'm no longer in clinical medicine so I'm happy with my current situation.

Love it.

I don't know how long I'll stay in active practice myself but I've kind of hit my sweet spot working PT.

 

[DVMDream]

Love it.

I don't know how long I'll stay in active practice myself but I've kind of hit my sweet spot working PT.

Yeah clinical medicine-- both GP and ER burned me out hard. I was doing ok with GP and occasional ER relief work as I really could make bank and only work 2=3 days a week. Making $100k+ and only working 2-3 days/week is just fantastic, but I still was burning out with just the non-stop, repetitive nature of what GP can be sometimes. I was ready to put my allergy talk on recording and just drop the recorder and hit play.

The number of aggressive dogs just skyrocketed out of nowhere, honestly, I am still not sure I will ever touch a dog again in my life, I am that burned out and saw that many outright aggressive dogs that I have no desire to be near dogs. It isn't that I don't like dogs, I do, I just got tired of every other dog wanting to eat my face off and you don't just get over being constantly backed into corners/lunged at/snarled at having to use a syringe pole to get drugs into these aggressive jerks overnight, it takes time. Even the owners couldn't touch them. And no one listens about going to a behaviorist or training. It gets exhausting feeling like your limbs and life are on the line multiple times a day and largely the owners of these pets don't care if their dog maims you or kills you.

I hate surgery, like crawl into a corner and hyperventilate hate surgery. The last surgery I ever did was a horrid dog bite wound where the torso basically degloved (only attached ventrally) from around the thorax and was travelling down towards the abdomen so had to pull it back in place and suture it closed. It wasn't too bad, but I was so anxious throughout I got lightheaded numerous times and had to stop a few seconds and calm myself down. It was impossible to get away from doing any and all surgery while in GP and ER.

It was beyond time to break free from clinical practice and so glad I finally did. I still get to help animals but I don't have to touch them, smell them, be bit/scratched/pissed or defecated on by them. No surgery. My quality of life is so, so much better.

 

[turnandburn]

Yeah clinical medicine-- both GP and ER burned me out hard. I was doing ok with GP and occasional ER relief work as I really could make bank and only work 2=3 days a week. Making $100k+ and only working 2-3 days/week is just fantastic, but I still was burning out with just the non-stop, repetitive nature of what GP can be sometimes. I was ready to put my allergy talk on recording and just drop the recorder and hit play.

The number of aggressive dogs just skyrocketed out of nowhere, honestly, I am still not sure I will ever touch a dog again in my life, I am that burned out and saw that many outright aggressive dogs that I have no desire to be near dogs. It isn't that I don't like dogs, I do, I just got tired of every other dog wanting to eat my face off and you don't just get over being constantly backed into corners/lunged at/snarled at having to use a syringe pole to get drugs into these aggressive jerks overnight, it takes time. Even the owners couldn't touch them. And no one listens about going to a behaviorist or training. It gets exhausting feeling like your limbs and life are on the line multiple times a day and largely the owners of these pets don't care if their dog maims you or kills you.

I hate surgery, like crawl into a corner and hyperventilate hate surgery. The last surgery I ever did was a horrid dog bite wound where the torso basically degloved (only attached ventrally) from around the thorax and was travelling down towards the abdomen so had to pull it back in place and suture it closed. It wasn't too bad, but I was so anxious throughout I got lightheaded numerous times and had to stop a few seconds and calm myself down. It was impossible to get away from doing any and all surgery while in GP and ER.

It was beyond time to break free from clinical practice and so glad I finally did. I still get to help animals but I don't have to touch them, smell them, be bit/scratched/pissed or defecated on by them. No surgery. My quality of life is so, so much better.

I do one day per week of s/n surgeries but that's all I'm comfortable doing. That degloving surgery sounds like a nightmare!

And +1 to your comments about aggressive dogs... I have little patience with patients like that and if I still can't get near them after a hefty dose of gaba/traz I refuse to see them again until they've met with a behaviorist.

What type of work do you do now?

 

[Swiger38]

Thank you everyone for your help! When I made this post- it wasn't that the salary was my main focus when I was choosing a position- but it did play a role. I ultimately ended up going with a practice that I previously worked at as a veterinary assistant, where I know that the mentorship has been there since day one. The environment is warm and tailored to training and making the entire staff better, and the mentorship is exactly what I needed. The practice is fear free certified, and there have been some new renovations to the hospital recently. The hospital has a great client load, and there are plenty of new clients where I am not worried about not producing enough. The salary is pro-sal, but I am in no means expected to hit that production within the first couple of months, and there is no negative accrual. It is a private practice, and not corporate owned- so it doesn't necessarily have the best of benefits, but the mentorship in my opinion and becoming the best doctor I can be is what weighed so heavily into my decision.

 

[turnandburn]

Thank you everyone for your help! When I made this post- it wasn't that the salary was my main focus when I was choosing a position- but it did play a role. I ultimately ended up going with a practice that I previously worked at as a veterinary assistant, where I know that the mentorship has been there since day one. The environment is warm and tailored to training and making the entire staff better, and the mentorship is exactly what I needed. The practice is fear free certified, and there have been some new renovations to the hospital recently. The hospital has a great client load, and there are plenty of new clients where I am not worried about not producing enough. The salary is pro-sal, but I am in no means expected to hit that production within the first couple of months, and there is no negative accrual. It is a private practice, and not corporate owned- so it doesn't necessarily have the best of benefits, but the mentorship in my opinion and becoming the best doctor I can be is what weighed so heavily into my decision.

Sounds like a great place to work! I hope it all works out well for you.

 

[Trilt]

I'm just giggling because my first job out (GP, worked there for four years and still work part time) and my current job (ER, been here six months) were BOTH the lower salaries of my options available. And further commutes.

But I was really happy with the mentorship and support I got at my first job, and we had all the toys (ultrasound, endoscopy) and patients (exotics!) for my other interests. And the ER I picked was also more my vibe - growing, often not the only doctor on, some specialists to bounce stuff off but not a ton to require dealing with constant department fragmentation - and as someone who grew up lower income, I appreciate that we're more affordable than the Blue Pearl that was my other offer.

Anyway, that is to say, I personally would absolutely agree with picking more on the factors other than money for the first job, though of course you have to pay your bills.

But remember you can always make more money, haha. Whether that's picking up extra shifts, changing jobs, negotiating a raise... we're vets, we have a marketable skill that is in demand. For your first job out, I just generally recommend picking your environment carefully to support you becoming the vet you want to be, then working from there.

 

[Lupin21]

I'm just giggling because my first job out (GP, worked there for four years and still work part time) and my current job (ER, been here six months) were BOTH the lower salaries of my options available. And further commutes.

But I was really happy with the mentorship and support I got at my first job, and we had all the toys (ultrasound, endoscopy) and patients (exotics!) for my other interests. And the ER I picked was also more my vibe - growing, often not the only doctor on, some specialists to bounce stuff off but not a ton to require dealing with constant department fragmentation - and as someone who grew up lower income, I appreciate that we're more affordable than the Blue Pearl that was my other offer.

Anyway, that is to say, I personally would absolutely agree with picking more on the factors other than money for the first job, though of course you have to pay your bills.

But remember you can always make more money, haha. Whether that's picking up extra shifts, changing jobs, negotiating a raise... we're vets, we have a marketable skill that is in demand. For your first job out, I just generally recommend picking your environment carefully to support you becoming the vet you want to be, then working from there.

I find that most don't even know what they'll gravitate towards until out in practice. Oh, you might have an idea, but it can completely change. I never expected to be excellent at euths and geriatric care/rehab. But I have found myself gravitating towards it and have a knack. But finding an environment that encourages special interest along the way is certainly key.