OPPOSE CRNAs doing pain mgt link

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PinchandBurn

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Done.Every single poster and reader on this forum has to complete this and AAPM&R, AAP and various other organizations should email all the members and give them similar instructions. Time is of the essence.
 
Done.Every single poster and reader on this forum has to complete this and AAPM&R, AAP and various other organizations should email all the members and give them similar instructions. Time is of the essence.

Done. You don't need to be a ASA member or Anesthesiologist to comment.
 
done, only takes a minute
 
done x2


agree...if you read thsi forum...please complete this.
 
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done and congressman emailed as well with a shortened version. if anyone here is AAPMR leadership have them put something together too plz
 
Done.

Here are my comments:

This rule exists as a result of misinterpretation of the distinction between the treatment of acute, postoperative pain, and the treatment of chronic pain-- a disease unto itself. Acute pain generally results from injury, surgical or otherwise, and has a natural history of steady improvement with the passage of time and healing. The treatment of acute pain is uncomplicated, and can reasonably be considered an extension of Anesthesiology, for which CRNA training may be adequate. The treatment of chronic pain is highly complex, requiring an understanding of multiple factors that each play a role in a given pain problem-- tissue injury and derangement, neurological change, and psychological overlay. Many patients presenting with chronic pain have multifactoral pain problems that require a thoughtful and creative physician to analyze, diagnose, and treat. Allowing CRNAs to practice chronic pain management flies in the face of reason, and will doubtless harm patients and lead to a waste of resources in our health system. I expect that CMS will realize that this rule is in error and affirm that the practice of Chronic Pain Management is indeed the practice of medicine.
 
Done and link forwarded to colleagues at my institution.
 
I was going to fill out the form, until I sat for some time and thought about it, and I realized that CRNAS are just as good as doctors, and they interchangeable for an anesthesiologist, so naturally they should be good at chronic pain. Hell they put in blind epidurals, and femoral nerve blocks, with ultrasound. That's basically all we do, I say, welcome. I think an advanced practice nurse (crna, CNS, NP) can write for Vicodin,soma and Xanax as well as an anesthesiologist, and can do a blind epidural between OR cases just as well as an MD. Which in the eyes of the government, the medical field, and the general public, is all "pain management" is. A joke is what we are thought as. Something that you don't have to even be a doctor to do. Just like medicine. Very soon, the majority of the medicine being practiced will be those trained in the "the practice" of nursing.

Hi I am your doctor nurse, I will be your "provider" today, and I will be taking care of you in a very algorithmic fashion, following a strict protocol, to insure things go well, if only they go perfect and follow the text book, because, well, I only cost 80% of the doctor, and let's face it, medical school is too long, difficult, expensive, and I could be sued. This way, as long nothing sways from the cookbook I am suppose to follow, I can provide you with cheaper care, act like I care, get to play doctor, and not have any real responsibility. But don't worry if Shiite gets ****ed up, I can always call a doctor,you know the ones that trained almost 3 times as long in years and probably 8 time as much in actual hours trained than me, who can come in and inherit my clusterfook, because I probably really have no idea what I am doing. You see, it's not my fault, because 3 years ago, I was passing out medications, taking orders, and if we're short staffed, cleaning up patients. I never actually was tought to think. But , hey, I am 20% cheaper. Have a great day.
 
wonder how many times one person can submit something...

for what its worth, ive already submitted 2 posts, but they said different things...
 
done (previously) and forwarded to my colleagues
 
I sent mine in.

I was going to fill out the form, until I sat for some time and thought about it, and I realized that CRNAS are just as good as doctors, and they interchangeable for an anesthesiologist, so naturally they should be good at chronic pain. .

Wrong!

They are better than doctors because nurses have compassion that we doctors don't have. They care more about their patients because they spend more time with them. If doctors cared more, they'd prove it by spending more time with their patients. Time = care = compassion = better.

Got it?
 
I can't believe what i heard from the AAPM&R.

"currently we (AAPM&R) do not have a position opposing the proposed changes"

Thats Bull***t!!!!
 
I can't believe what i heard from the AAPM&R.

"currently we (AAPM&R) do not have a position opposing the proposed changes"

Thats Bull***t!!!!

Are you serious?? Hopefully some of the AAPM&R council members can address this right away. Can you post your comment on the PM&R forum as well.
 
I can't believe what i heard from the AAPM&R.

"currently we (AAPM&R) do not have a position opposing the proposed changes"

Thats Bull***t!!!!

Then we need to have them formulate an opinion, as it affects many of their members, self included.
 
Are you serious?? Hopefully some of the AAPM&R council members can address this right away. Can you post your comment on the PM&R forum as well.


waht???? Dude, I'm not a PMR doc, but that's ridiculous!! Kick their elected officials out! They shoudl ABSOLUTELY have a position on this.
 
This isn't surprising. It's more evidence of the dinosaurs that really run the AAPM&R behind the scenes.

Were it PT's wanting to do EMG's - rather than CRNA's wanting to do pain - then - and only then - would we'd shucking and jumping at the AAPM&R.
 
I can't believe what i heard from the AAPM&R.

"currently we (AAPM&R) do not have a position opposing the proposed changes"

Thats Bull***t!!!!

Where did you hear this?
 
I can't believe what i heard from the AAPM&R.

"currently we (AAPM&R) do not have a position opposing the proposed changes"

Thats Bull***t!!!!



SERIOUSLY???? Let down by academic medicine again. They probably want to form some sort of training school to train CRNA's...
 
This isn't surprising. It's more evidence of the dinosaurs that really run the AAPM&R behind the scenes.

Were it PT's wanting to do EMG's - rather than CRNA's wanting to do pain - then - and only then - would we'd shucking and jumping at the AAPM&R.



Sorry to burst your bubble but PT's are doing EMG's (sadly).
 
waht???? Dude, I'm not a PMR doc, but that's ridiculous!! Kick their elected officials out! They shoudl ABSOLUTELY have a position on this.

The current AAPM&R executive committee
President: David L. Bagnall, MD - non-surgical spine management

President-Elect: Alberto Esquenazi, MD - general rehab
Vice President: Kurt M. Hoppe, MD - Spinal cord rehab
Secretary: Kathleen R. Bell, MD - Brain injury and general rehab
Treasurer: David G. Welch, MD - Peds and general rehab

Members-at-Large
Michael W. O'Dell, MD - general rehab
Heikki Uustal, MD - general rehab and P&O
Sam S. Wu, MD MA MPH MBA - peds rehab

Strategic Coordinating Committee Chairs
Medical Education: Michelle S. Gittler, MD, Chair - spinal cord rehab
Membership: Ai Mukai, MD, Chair - interventional pain
Public and Professional Awareness: Stuart J. Glassman, MD, Chair - general rehab
Quality, Practice, Policy, and Research: Gregory M. Worsowicz, MD, MBA, Chair - general rehab

As you see above the general trend in the leadership is overwhelmingly inpatient and general rehab. Its very sad that they are sitting back and watching this unravel. We need your help Ai and Steve.
 
I can't believe what i heard from the AAPM&R.

"currently we (AAPM&R) do not have a position opposing the proposed changes"

Thats Bull***t!!!!

Funny, considering they have both a pain and musculoskeletal council.

There would most certainly be a response if it had to do with EMG or ultrasound.


And they wonder why some members don't want to renew their membership.
 
I talked to one of the other council members last night and will get in touch with others.
I do not know who is in charge of getting stuff on the website, but I'll be in touch with the executive director today to plead our case.
 
yet another reason why I am no longer a member of the Academy
 
yet another reason why I am no longer a member of the Academy

Now I understand your frustration.

Just received the following from my state Senators office

Thank you for contacting me regarding Medicare coverage for services provided by certified registered nurse anesthetists (CRNAs). I appreciate hearing from you.

The Craig Thomas Rural Hospital and Provider Equity Act of 2011 (S. 1680), introduced by Senator Kent Conrad of North Dakota, contains a number of provisions to promote access to health care for Medicare beneficiaries in rural areas. This legislation includes an amendment to the Social Security Act to extend Medicare coverage to services provided by CRNAs.

CRNAs are advanced practice registered nurses who provide the majority of anesthesia care to rural and medically underserved Americans. Nurse anesthetists provide the most cost-effective method of anesthesia services, while providing high quality of care. Without CRNA services, many U.S. rural and critical access hospitals would not be able to offer many medically necessary services.

S. 1680 has been referred to the Senate Finance Committee. While I am not a member of this Committee, I will keep your views in mind should this bill come to the Senate floor.

I also encourage you to contact the Center for Medicare at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. It can be contacted by mail at 7500 Security Blvd. Baltimore, MD 21244.

Thank you again for contacting me. Please feel free to keep in touch.

Sincerely,
Richard J. Durbin
United States Senator


grrr:mad:
 
The current AAPM&R executive committee
President: David L. Bagnall, MD - non-surgical spine management

President-Elect: Alberto Esquenazi, MD - general rehab
Vice President: Kurt M. Hoppe, MD - Spinal cord rehab
Secretary: Kathleen R. Bell, MD - Brain injury and general rehab
Treasurer: David G. Welch, MD - Peds and general rehab

Members-at-Large
Michael W. O'Dell, MD - general rehab
Heikki Uustal, MD - general rehab and P&O
Sam S. Wu, MD MA MPH MBA - peds rehab

Strategic Coordinating Committee Chairs
Medical Education: Michelle S. Gittler, MD, Chair - spinal cord rehab
Membership: Ai Mukai, MD, Chair - interventional pain
Public and Professional Awareness: Stuart J. Glassman, MD, Chair - general rehab
Quality, Practice, Policy, and Research: Gregory M. Worsowicz, MD, MBA, Chair - general rehab

As you see above the general trend in the leadership is overwhelmingly inpatient and general rehab. Its very sad that they are sitting back and watching this unravel. We need your help Ai and Steve.


AAPMR is, always has been, and likely will be for the foreseeable future, run by the "old guard" who still see inpt rehab as viable for the future, and think we should all be doing inpt rehab and a little bit of outpt, as long as it is mainly f/u on inpt pts after they've left the floor.
 
1st. I've had the opportunity to discuss the matter with folks at the AAPMR.
2nd. This is my personal statement and not that of the AAPMR.

The AAPMR is advocating for PMR and Pain Medicine by opposing expansion of any field into Pain Medicine. This includes PT, NP, CRNA's who wish to encroach on the field of medicine.

Also, the AAPMR is working with legislators, lobbyists, and other societies to represent the best interest of their constituents.

There is no positon of the PMR on pricing from CMS on CRNA's as it relates to anesthesia.

The current Federal Register has 341 pages in the act. Here is the wording from the PDF as it relates to CRNA encroachment:

K. Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists and Chronic Pain Management Services
The benefit category for services furnished by a certified registered nurse anesthetist (CRNA) was added to Medicare by section 9320 of the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (OBRA) 1986. Since this benefit was implemented on January 1, 1989, CRNAs have been eligible to bill Medicare directly for the specified services. Section 1861(bb)(2) of the Act defines a CRNA as ‘‘a certified registered nurse anesthetist licensed by the State who meets such education, training, and other requirements relating to anesthesia services and related care as the Secretary may prescribe. In prescribing such requirements the Secretary may use the same requirements as those established by a national organization for the certification of nurse anesthetists.’’
Section 410.69(b) defines a CRNA as
a registered nurse who: (1) Is licensed as a registered professional nurse by the State in which the nurse practices; (2) meets any licensure requirements the State imposes with respect to nonphysician anesthetists; (3) has graduated from a nurse anesthesia educational program that meets the standards of the Council on Accreditation of Nurse Anesthesia Programs, or such other accreditation organization as may be designated by the Secretary; and (4) meets one of the following criteria: (i) Has passed a certification examination of the Council on Certification of Nurse Anesthetists, the Council on Recertification of Nurse Anesthetists, or any other certification organization that may be designated by the Secretary; or (ii) is a graduate of a program described in paragraph (3) of this definition and within 24 months after that graduation meets the requirements of paragraph (4)(i) of this definition.
Section 1861(bb)(1) of the Act defines services of a CRNA as ‘‘anesthesia services and related care furnished by a certified registered nurse anesthetist (as defined in paragraph (2)) which the nurse anesthetist is legally authorized to perform as such by the State in which the services are furnished’’. CRNAs are paid at the same rate as physicians for furnishing such services to Medicare beneficiaries. Payment for services furnished by CRNAs only differs from physicians in that payment to CRNAs is made only on an assignment-related basis (§ 414.60) and supervision requirements apply in certain circumstances.
At the time that the Medicare benefit for CRNA services was established, CRNA practice largely occurred in the surgical setting and services other than anesthesia (medical and surgical) were furnished in the immediate pre- and post-surgery timeframe. The scope of ‘‘anesthesia services and related care’’ as delineated in section 1861(bb)(1) of the Act reflected that practice standard. As CRNAs have moved into other practice settings, questions have arisen regarding what services are encompassed under the ‘‘related care’’ aspect of the benefit category. Specifically, some CRNAs now offer chronic pain management services that are separate and distinct from a surgical procedure. Changes in CRNA practice have prompted questions as to whether these services fall within the scope of section 1861(bb)(1) of the Act. Medicare Administrative Contractors (MACs) have reached different conclusions as to whether the statutory description of ‘‘anesthesia services and related care’’ encompasses the chronic pain management services delivered by CRNAs. As a result, we have been asked to address whether or not chronic pain management is included within the scope of the statutory benefit for CRNA services.
To determine whether chronic pain management is included in the statutory benefit for CRNA services, we reviewed our current regulations and subregulatory guidance. We found that the existing guidance does not specifically address chronic pain management. In the Internet Only Manual (Pub 100–04, Ch 12, Sec 140.4.3), we discuss the medical or surgical services that fall under the ‘‘related care’’ language stating, ‘‘These may include the insertion of Swan Ganz catheters, central venous pressure lines, pain management, emergency intubation, and the pre-anesthetic examination and evaluation of a patient who does not undergo surgery.’’ Some have interpreted the reference to ‘‘pain management’’ in this language as authorizing direct payment to CRNAs for chronic pain management services, while others have taken the view that the services highlighted in the manual language are services furnished in the perioperative setting and refer only to acute pain management associated with the surgical procedure.
Since existing guidance was not determinative, we assessed the issue of CRNA practice of chronic pain
management more broadly. We found that chronic pain management is an emerging field. The Institute of Medicine (IOM) issued a report entitled ‘‘Relieving Pain in America: A Blueprint for Transforming Prevention, Care, Education and Research’’ on June 29, 2011, discussing the importance of pain management and focusing on the many challenges in delivering effective chronic pain management. The available interventions to treat chronic pain have been expanding. In addition to the use of medications and a variety of diagnostic tests, techniques include neural blocks, neuromodulatory techniques, and implanted pain management devices. The healthcare community continues to examine the appropriateness and effectiveness of these many and varied treatment techniques and modalities. As part of this evolution, Medicare established a physician specialty code for interventional pain management in 2003.
The healthcare community continues to debate whether CRNAs are qualified to provide chronic pain management. Some have stated that interventional pain management for beneficiaries with chronic pain is the practice of medicine, that CRNAs do not receive the sufficient education on chronic pain management, and that CRNAs do not have the skills required to furnish chronic pain management services. Others have stated that both acute and chronic pain management and treatment are within the CRNA professional scope and are comparable services, and that CRNAs receive the clinical training and experience necessary to furnish both acute and chronic pain management services. Recently, several State legislatures have debated the scope of CRNA practice, including those in the States of California, Colorado, Missouri, South Carolina, Nevada, and Virginia.
In the context of Medicare, some have pointed to Medicare policies allowing other advanced practice nurses such as nurse practitioners or clinical nurse specialists to furnish and bill for physicians’ services as support for recognizing a broader interpretation of the scope of CRNA practice. We would note that the statutory benefit category definition for CRNAs substantively differs from that for other advanced practice nurses. Section 1861(s)(2)(K) of the Act authorizes certain nonphysician practitioners (NPPs) to bill Medicare directly for services they are legally authorized to perform under State law, and ‘‘which would be physicians’ services if furnished by a physician.’’ With certain conditions (such as physician supervision or collaboration),
the statute allows these NPPs to bill Medicare for physicians’ services that fall within their State scope of practice.
Since State governments regulate the licensure and practice of specific types of health care professionals, we have looked to the State scope of practice laws to determine if chronic pain management was within the scope of practice for CRNAs. State scope of practice laws vary with regard to the range of services that CRNAs may perform, and some include chronic pain management. As discussed earlier, several States are debating whether to include chronic pain management services within the CRNA scope of practice.
After assessing the information available to us, we have concluded that chronic pain management is an evolving field, and we recognize that certain States have determined that the scope of practice for a CRNA should include chronic pain management in order to meet health care needs of their residents and ensure their health and safety. Therefore, we propose to revise our regulations at § 410.69(b) to define the statutory description of CRNA services. Specifically, we propose to add the following language: ‘‘Anesthesia and related care includes medical and surgical services that are related to anesthesia and that a CRNA is legally authorized to perform by the State in which the services are furnished.’’ This proposed definition would set a Medicare standard for the services that can be furnished and billed by CRNAs while allowing appropriate flexibility to meet the unique needs of each State. The proposal also dovetails with the language in section 1861(bb)(1) of the Act requiring the State’s legal authorization to perform CRNA services as a key component of the CRNA benefit category. Finally, the proposed definition is also consistent with our policy to recognize State scope of practice as one parameter defining the services that can be furnished and billed by other NPPs.
Simply because the State allows a certain type of health care professional to furnish certain services does not mean that all members of that profession are adequately trained to provide the service. In the case of chronic pain management, the IOM report specifically noted that many practitioners lack the skills needed to help patients with the day-to-day self- management that is required to properly serve individuals with chronic pain. As with all practitioners who furnish services to Medicare beneficiaries, CRNAs practicing in States that allow them to furnish chronic pain management services are responsible for obtaining the necessary training for any and all services furnished to Medicare beneficiaries.


The above is on page 68/341 of DOC 2012-16814.pdf
The AAPMR opposes this part of the document.

The AAPMR does a poor job of communicating with its members regarding advocacy issues, but know that they have a seat at the table and are working on several fronts to ensure the best outcomes for us.
 
Wanted to respond to some of what has been posted so far. And since I've been called out, I'm not really anonymous anymore (not that I ever really was) so I would like to make it clear that I am NOT representing the Board or the Academy in this post.

First of all, I am not the only interventional pain physician on the Board of the Academy nor do I feel like the rest of the Board members are ignoring the needs of the interventional private practice physiatrists. We know that the majority of our members are private practice physiatrists practicing outpatient PM&R/MSK/spine/pain/EMG and the Academy has done a great job scanning the environment for potential threats to our specialty as well as opportunities. There are many parts to the Academy and as we have grown, there are many moving parts and different Physiatrist leaders involved in many factions of our activities. A lot of the political advocacy is done by the Quality Practice Policy and Research Committee, which has several subcommittees including the Health Policy and Legislation Committee.

The HP&L committee has been working on going through the 700+ pages of CMS proposed changes with a fine tooth comb and identifying areas of relevance to our field and drafting comments in response to the proposed changes to be submitted to CMS by the early September deadline. So no, we don't have an existing documented position on the 700+ pages of CMS proposed changes. BUT NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER. not even the ASA.

The Academy has been active in advocating for physician scope of practice issues including working with the Scope of Practice Partnership Steering Committee since 2006. We have a clear position on and history of opposing CRNA/PA/NP scope of practice expansion. A lot of scope of practice issues are fought on the state level and we just launched a state initiative on phyzforum to help facilitate communication of specific advocacy priorities to state legislators.

http://www.aapmr.org/advocacy/societies/Pages/state-forum-initiative.aspx

We also have increased our lobbying presence because we recognize the importance of that in this political climate. The Academy has also been forming more coalitions and working with other specialty societies. We are a small specialty with limited funding compared to some of the other specialties in medicine. We have to be smart in terms of what we do and be nimble and efficient. Many of the other specialty societies enjoy very high loyalty and membership among their field (for example the Orthopedic society has 90+% membership) and many specialists consider being a member of their specialty society as an integral part of their professional identity and a way to give back to their field and promote their field.

It's personally kind of ironic to me that people comment on the "old guards" of PM&R running the Academy - yet the membership committee is grappling with how to engage more academic physiatrists to identify the Academy as their primary specialty society and to teach the value of supporting their specialty society to their residents....

Anyways, hope that helps clarify some things. pm me if you have any specific questions.
 
So today I'm reviewing patients with my staff and we review a patient from a rural area sent to us for "pain management". Of course, at her cr@ptastic little hospital they have a CRNA doing "Pain Management". He of course does a series of three lumbar interlaminars, and when that doesnt' work they send her here. How the f* does this save the government any g-d money? Series of 3 is so dang antiquated and disproven. So we've got an untrained professional practicing outside his scope, providing more costly care that's NOT up to the current standards. And yet SOMEHOW this is supposed to be okay?! And for the record, my offices are only 40 miles from this patient. Meaning these patients are never far from appropriate care!!


Yankee-

easy solution if you are in a PP or solo and can do your own advertising.

Initial investment will be present. But go around his office and wherever you think he gets patients from and put this sign up.

"WHO DO YOU WANT DOING YOUR INJECTIONS NEAR YOUR SPINAL CORD FOR PAIN RELIEF? A DOCTOR WITH 4 years of MEDICAL SCHOOL, 4 YEARS of RESIDENCY/FELLOWSHIP AND BOARD CERTIFICATION.....or a nurse. It's your spine, you decide".


you get the point. something like this. plaster it in your town's and the CRNAs local newspapers,etc. Get the public to self select you. I think we as MDs need to be more outspoken about these issues.
 
Question,

Is the email I got from ASIPP today the same thing I did with the link above several days ago or should I do it twice

I can't honestly believe I worked my ass off to get into a competitive pain fellowship after 4 years of internship/residency which came after medical school only to find out a large governing body is willing to turn my livelihood over to nurses. Nothing against nurses but holy sh%t, this is not right. This is so wrong on so many levels as stated in mine and so many others previous posts.

Coming out of PM&R I did quite a few spinal injections in residency but did a fellowship to further my knowledge and have no barriers to doing this as a profession. Many of my peers in the same positon at that time were worried that at some point with the abuses going on that only fellowship trained doctors were going to be reimbursed for the procedures.

As it stands now this couldn't be further from the truth.
 
Question,

Is the email I got from ASIPP today the same thing I did with the link above several days ago or should I do it twice

I can't honestly believe I worked my ass off to get into a competitive pain fellowship after 4 years of internship/residency which came after medical school only to find out a large governing body is willing to turn my livelihood over to nurses. Nothing against nurses but holy sh%t, this is not right. This is so wrong on so many levels as stated in mine and so many others previous posts.

Coming out of PM&R I did quite a few spinal injections in residency but did a fellowship to further my knowledge and have no barriers to doing this as a profession. Many of my peers in the same positon at that time were worried that at some point with the abuses going on that only fellowship trained doctors were going to be reimbursed for the procedures.

As it stands now this couldn't be further from the truth.

That's what is frustrating. Being young in our carrier and having had to jump through the hoops to get into competitive fellowships and now this garbage?

The good thing, is that most of us Pain Physicians have personalities that are more willing to stand against this sort of thing. I can tell you that as an anesthesiologist, and seeing my colleagues in anesthesia, most of them are of the 'passive' type. I think the same goes to those PMR docs. Of course I'm generalizing here.

I think most of us Pain Physicians went into this profession for the right reasons.

To your question, I think it's the same link...but dude who cares. Send it in twice, or three times. I used my address, my parents, and my business address. The more the better!! It'll be circulated to various different congresspeople.

BTW...I hope everyone filled out that survey for CMS that ISIS sent out about wRVUs. Today was the last day.
 
Physicians are willing to eat their own young to gain a competitive edge. They want laws to guard their turf.

Pain docs, in general, want more and more restrictive laws governing who can do what in pain medicine. You see it here all the time - only fellowship trained docs should do interventional pain! Only fellowship trained-docs should do opioids! No, wait! That means too many pill seekers for us! Change the laws!

Now nurses have their own boards in many states, separate from doctors. They are more interested in expanding scopes of practice than protecting their own turf. They are expanding. Waging war on neighboring nations, so to speak.

While we have been so busy with the in-fighting, they have invaded. And they are winning. They and other mid-levels. DNPs, DPTs, PAs, PSyD, PhDs, PharmDs, chiros, naturopaths, all want increased scopes of practice to play doctor. And they are getting it.

LET THEM HAVE IT!

If you cannot compete man-to-man (or woman) against a nurse doing pain management, find another career. If they can out-market you, you lose. If they can do it cheaper, you lose.

BUT I'M A DOCTOR! I'M BETTER THAN THEY ARE!

Then prove it. Take care of your patients better. Get better outcomes. Work efficiently. Show admins why they want doctors, not nurses practicing medicine. Show the patients why they want a doctor taking care of them, not a nurse.

The Tsunami of midlevel scope-of-practice increases in legislation is impossible to stop. You'll get minor victories here and there. Then they'll just try again next session. And eventually win. Then they move on to the the next target.

But while you are busy trying to tear apart every other doctor who wants a piece of your action, the mid-levels are sneaking it out from under you.
 
Physicians are willing to eat their own young to gain a competitive edge. They want laws to guard their turf.

Pain docs, in general, want more and more restrictive laws governing who can do what in pain medicine. You see it here all the time - only fellowship trained docs should do interventional pain! Only fellowship trained-docs should do opioids! No, wait! That means too many pill seekers for us! Change the laws!

Now nurses have their own boards in many states, separate from doctors. They are more interested in expanding scopes of practice than protecting their own turf. They are expanding. Waging war on neighboring nations, so to speak.

While we have been so busy with the in-fighting, they have invaded. And they are winning. They and other mid-levels. DNPs, DPTs, PAs, PSyD, PhDs, PharmDs, chiros, naturopaths, all want increased scopes of practice to play doctor. And they are getting it.

LET THEM HAVE IT!

If you cannot compete man-to-man (or woman) against a nurse doing pain management, find another career. If they can out-market you, you lose. If they can do it cheaper, you lose.

BUT I'M A DOCTOR! I'M BETTER THAN THEY ARE!

Then prove it. Take care of your patients better. Get better outcomes. Work efficiently. Show admins why they want doctors, not nurses practicing medicine. Show the patients why they want a doctor taking care of them, not a nurse.

The Tsunami of midlevel scope-of-practice increases in legislation is impossible to stop. You'll get minor victories here and there. Then they'll just try again next session. And eventually win. Then they move on to the the next target.

But while you are busy trying to tear apart every other doctor who wants a piece of your action, the mid-levels are sneaking it out from under you.
PMR-

I think your point is well taken. In an ideal world, your right, we shoudl be able to prove we are better . Ideally, we should be able to prove better ourcomes, work efficiently, take care of patients better,etc.

However, what you have left out is that those hospital admins that you are referring to that we display these outcome measures say they care about those things, but really care about one thing ---MONEY.

Yes MONEY/savings,etc. They want the cheapest guy to do the work. That usually isnt a physician.

So while we are hear infighting and pontificating about the best way to take care of patients, they'll replace us for the cheaper option..that's all they care about. IT doesnt have to be better. In terms of safer (that's questionable. Nowadays most of medicine is relatively safe). Additionally, since they are saving a ton of MONEY with midlevels, even if one or two of them screw up a little bit, over time they ahve saved more money that they can pay the settlements,attorneys malpractice fees,etc.

So do we have to save our own turf-ABSOLUTELY. If we dont, no one will.

Should in fighting stop--YES. We as physicians need to put aside our differences and realize that MEDICINE has a war waged on us by midlevel providers with half the training. It's not a fight between each other.

I respectfully disagree with you. In times past, physicians always took the 'high' road and just pontificated that as long as we do the right things, take care of patients properly, did the right training, etc we will always be needed because we are the ones with the education. Things are not the same. TImes have passed and we need to be more proactive and not reactive.
 
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