optometrist arent really doctors, so what are they??

///M5

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i mean, how would you rank them? some said that optometrist are similar to chiropractors. is that fair?
 

PharmDr.

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I was not aware there was a "ranking" system in healthcare. Optometrists are doctors but not medical doctors(MD,DO). Dentists are doctors as well but in a different area of specialty. Between optometrists and chiropractors comes a blurry line in my opinion. Yes, they do earn a doctorate in their field (DC) so in sense they can be called Dr. But on the other hand, many will argue that the methods in which they go about their work are not as resembling to a MD/DO than a OD. Optometrists diagnose and treat eye diseases and visual problems and can write scripts for opthamalic soln. and in 47 states I have heard can even write for oral meds. Of course, you are only allowed to write for oral meds for the eye and related structures. Can someone verify this for me?
 

ppa93

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///M5 said:
i mean, how would you rank them? some said that optometrist are similar to chiropractors. is that fair?
I think they both have their own professions. Dont look down on Chiropractors too cos they got their skills just like optometrists. You cant really compare them since their practices are different. Only stupid people will say such things like Optometrists are simmilar to Chiroprators. I will just tell him to go back and do some research.
You should know something about DO and MD>
MD thinks DO are way below them. They both are medical doctors, arent they? so u tell me is that fair to look down on DO?
So just ignore people who think like that
 

al-majhul

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ppa93 said:
I think they both have their own professions. Dont look down on Chiropractors too cos they got their skills just like optometrists. You cant really compare them since their practices are different. Only stupid people will say such things like Optometrists are simmilar to Chiroprators. I will just tell him to go back and do some research.
You should know something about DO and MD>
MD thinks DO are way below them. They both are medical doctors, arent they? so u tell me is that fair to look down on DO?
So just ignore people who think like that
Just to clarify some of ppa93's comments, and perhaps someone can correct me if I am mistaken myself (to err is human) -- DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathy -- not to be confused with OD (Doctor of Optometry). An MD (Medical Doctor) is a doctor of allopathy (as opposed to osteopathy). MD's and DO's receive the same amount of training, from my understanding, it's just a slightly different approach to medicine.

All these professions that we are discussing, I believe, are technically doctoral degrees...essentially anyone with a doctoral degree takes on the title of doctor. Some doctors are health professionals, other doctors critique novels (PhD - doctor of philosophy?? if i'm not mistaken). To get back to the question that started this thread, to try and "rank" them is like saying, how do I rank all these different fruits? Is a banana (chiropractors) similar to a strawberry (optometrists)? Well, the only way they are similar is that they are both fruits (health professions) -- well, they're also all plants (graduates of doctoral programs), but that's such a broad base to consider [consider the vegetables (humanities doctorates)]. An MD might be a mango, while a DO may be a guava -- similar in more ways to each other than to bananas or strawberries. Personally, I like the taste of strawberries the best; but when you get right down to it, it's no better or worse than a mango.

btw...I don't like tomatos too much.
 

brendang

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al-majhul said:
Just to clarify some of ppa93's comments, and perhaps someone can correct me if I am mistaken myself (to err is human) -- DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathy -- not to be confused with OD (Doctor of Optometry). An MD (Medical Doctor) is a doctor of allopathy (as opposed to osteopathy). MD's and DO's receive the same amount of training, from my understanding, it's just a slightly different approach to medicine.

All these professions that we are discussing, I believe, are technically doctoral degrees...essentially anyone with a doctoral degree takes on the title of doctor. Some doctors are health professionals, other doctors critique novels (PhD - doctor of philosophy?? if i'm not mistaken). To get back to the question that started this thread, to try and "rank" them is like saying, how do I rank all these different fruits? Is a banana (chiropractors) similar to a strawberry (optometrists)? Well, the only way they are similar is that they are both fruits (health professions) -- well, they're also all plants (graduates of doctoral programs), but that's such a broad base to consider [consider the vegetables (humanities doctorates)]. An MD might be a mango, while a DO may be a guava -- similar in more ways to each other than to bananas or strawberries. Personally, I like the taste of strawberries the best; but when you get right down to it, it's no better or worse than a mango.

btw...I don't like tomatos too much.
dude, that's one of the most ******ed things i've read on this board... you're an idiot.
 

UABopt

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///M5 said:
i mean, how would you rank them? some said that optometrist are similar to chiropractors. is that fair?
M5-
Perhaps you are simply unaware of what controversy your post could cause, and perhaps you are. The optometric curriculum, in my opinion, is quite vigorous. Seeing as most optometrists have never attended chiropractic school, and no optometry schools are associated with chiropractic schools, comparing the two is impractical at best.
I myself don’t at all agree with, nor do I subscribe to, the basic premise and philosophy behind chiropractic, but I feel that if people think that they are helped by chiropractors, more power to them.
I think that a better comparison would be dental, or perhaps podiatric school. UAB has schools of Dentistry, Optometry and Medicine. The optometry students take several basic science classes (whenever there is enough overlap in the subject matter) with the Dental students, and we take med-neuro with the medical students. Med-neuro at one point in time was a combined class for all three dental optometry and Medicine. Several years ago the dental school created their own version of the class more focused on dentistry so they no longer take it with us.
Against popular belief dental and optometry students learn about the whole body, not just about the mouth and eyes respectively. Something you will hear over and over again in optometry school is, “your patients are not just a pair of eyes!!!”
The DAT and OAT are very similar tests; if I am not mistaken they are administered by the same company. The main difference being that the OAT has physics, appropriate to optics, and the DAT has the perceptual ability test, appropriate to dentistry. When I took the OAT I even had a reading passage on the anatomy of the oral cavity. Again, despite the considerable overlap in subject matter, note that optometry and dentistry are two totally different fields and comparing the two is hard at best. The lesson to be learned here is that you should go to your dentist if you have a toothache, and to an optometrist or ophthalmologist if you are having a hard time seeing =) .
As far as the title doctor is concerned, it could be argued that the only true doctor has written a thesis (ie. A Ph.D.) as is the practice in much of the world. In the US all “pre-health” students complete virtually identical undergraduate prerequisites, and schools award the MD degree after 4 years of medical school, DVM after 4 years of vet school, DMD or DDS after 4 years dental school, DPM after podiatry school and an OD after 4 years of optometry school, all these professions refer to themselves as doctor in both clinical and academic settings by convention.
As far as I am concerned when I am done with school you can call me whatever you wish. I don’t think it will change the way I will practice. In the end you should be going to school in the pursuit of knowledge. Going to school solely for a title, whatever that title may be, is shallow at best.
 

wrx04

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///M5 said:
didnt mean to start a flame war.


a m5 will destroy an wrx
Very true. An M5 is my dream car...but it'll be a few years before I can afford one of those ;) .
 

Katalio

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Yeah!!!! NEW m5 isn't as great as the old M5 tho.. M5 is my dream car too!!!!! hehehe!!!!. but then I was thinking, STi might beat an M5 in a drag right?
396 HP vs 300 HP but M5 is much heavier right?
I guess the NEW M5 with its...err..watever HP. (5xx)? can beat it..who knows! =)

Err..back to the Topic,

I think Chiro's are cool! =P
 

futuredoctorOD

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al-majhul said:
Just to clarify some of ppa93's comments, and perhaps someone can correct me if I am mistaken myself (to err is human) -- DO stands for Doctor of Osteopathy -- not to be confused with OD (Doctor of Optometry). An MD (Medical Doctor) is a doctor of allopathy (as opposed to osteopathy). MD's and DO's receive the same amount of training, from my understanding, it's just a slightly different approach to medicine.

All these professions that we are discussing, I believe, are technically doctoral degrees...essentially anyone with a doctoral degree takes on the title of doctor. Some doctors are health professionals, other doctors critique novels (PhD - doctor of philosophy?? if i'm not mistaken). To get back to the question that started this thread, to try and "rank" them is like saying, how do I rank all these different fruits? Is a banana (chiropractors) similar to a strawberry (optometrists)? Well, the only way they are similar is that they are both fruits (health professions) -- well, they're also all plants (graduates of doctoral programs), but that's such a broad base to consider [consider the vegetables (humanities doctorates)]. An MD might be a mango, while a DO may be a guava -- similar in more ways to each other than to bananas or strawberries. Personally, I like the taste of strawberries the best; but when you get right down to it, it's no better or worse than a mango.

btw...I don't like tomatos too much.
I agree!!!!!!! I like strawberries!
 

futuredoctorOD

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///M5 said:
didnt mean to start a flame war.


a m5 will destroy an wrx
Ya but at around 50K+ you can buy a C6 Corvette that will smoke an M5 or for a little more a Dodge Viper that will do the same..........I love cars.....
 

futuredoctorOD

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///M5 said:
i mean, how would you rank them? some said that optometrist are similar to chiropractors. is that fair?
Optometrists aren't doctors...They are Eye Doctors.........I just wanted to clarify!
 

PLPrincess

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futuredoctorOD said:
Ya but at around 50K+ you can buy a C6 Corvette that will smoke an M5 or for a little more a Dodge Viper that will do the same..........I love cars.....
ya...but those are domestics...ick :p
 

parazoa

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PharmDr. said:
I was not aware there was a "ranking" system in healthcare. Optometrists are doctors but not medical doctors(MD,DO). Dentists are doctors as well but in a different area of specialty. Between optometrists and chiropractors comes a blurry line in my opinion. Yes, they do earn a doctorate in their field (DC) so in sense they can be called Dr. But on the other hand, many will argue that the methods in which they go about their work are not as resembling to a MD/DO than a OD. Optometrists diagnose and treat eye diseases and visual problems and can write scripts for opthamalic soln.and in 47 states I have heard can even write for oral meds. Of course, you are only allow ed to write for oral meds for the eye and related structures. Can someone verify this for me?
I wanted to respond to this for those of you who are not up to date about our oral rights. I did a little research and here is the law from the state of washington.

WAC 246-851-580 Drug list. Pursuant to RCW 18.53.010(4), the optometry board adopts the following drug formulary of oral Schedule III through V controlled substances and legend drugs for diagnostic and therapeutic purposes in the practice of optometry. No licensed optometrist may use, prescribe, dispense, purchase, possess, or administer these drugs except as authorized and to the extent permitted by the board. This section includes the approved oral drug formulary. Optometrists must consult WAC 246-851-590 for specific guidelines on these drugs or drug categories.

(1) Approved nonscheduled oral drugs include:

(a) Antibiotic agents excluding those listed in WAC 246-851-590(1).

(b) Antiviral agents.

(c) Antifungal agents listed under WAC 246-851-590(2).

(d) Antihistamine agents.

(e) Decongestant agents.

(f) Dry eye agents.

(g) Anti-emetic agents listed under WAC 246-851-590(3).

(h) Diuretic agents listed under WAC 246-851-590(4).

(i) Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agents excluding those listed in WAC 246-851-590(5).

(j) Analgesics.

(2) Approved controlled substances limited to Schedules III, IV, and V.

(a) Schedule III controlled substances.

(b) Schedule IV controlled substances.

(c) Schedule V controlled substances.

(d) Schedule IV anti-anxiety/sedative agents.

(3) Approved injectable substances.

Administration of epinephrine by injection for the treatment of anaphylactic shock.

and

WAC 246-851-590 Guidelines for the use of oral Schedule III through V controlled substances and legend drugs. Nothing in these guidelines should be construed to restrict the recommendation of over-the-counter medications, vitamins, or supplements, nor restrict the ordering of any radiologic or laboratory testing necessary to the diagnosis of any eye related disease that is within the scope of practice of optometry.

(1) All oral forms and dosages of antibiotic agents will be available for use excluding: Vancomycin.

(2) Antifungal agents used in eye care shall fall into the following categories:

(a) All oral forms and dosages of polyene antifungals.

(b) All oral forms and dosages of imidazole antifungals.

(c) All oral forms and dosages of triazole antifungals.

(3) Anti-emetic agents used in eye care shall be the following medications:

(a) All oral forms and dosages of prochlorperazine.

(b) All oral forms and dosages of metoclopramide.

(c) All oral forms and dosages of promethazine.

(4) Diuretic agents used in eye care shall fall into the following categories:

(a) All oral forms and dosages of carbonic anhydrase inhibitors.

(b) All oral forms and dosages of osmotic diuretics. Osmotic diuretics shall be used only in the case of acute angle closure glaucoma administered in-office, outpatient, and/or ambulatory procedures only.

(5) All oral forms and dosages of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agents will be available for use excluding: Ketorolac tromethamine.

(6) Benzodiazepines prescribed, as anti-anxiety agents, shall be used for in-office, outpatient, and/or ambulatory procedures. This family of medications will be utilized as one dosage unit per prescription.

(7) Schedules III and IV controlled substances will have a maximum quantity count of thirty dosage units per prescription.

(8) Specific dosage for use and appropriate duration of treatment of oral medications listed in WAC 246-851-580(1) will be consistent with guidelines established by the Food and Drug Administration.

(9) Notation of purpose shall be included on all prescriptions.

(10) An optometrist may not:

(a) Use, prescribe, dispense, or administer oral corticosteroids; or

(b) Prescribe, dispense, or administer a controlled substance for more than seven days in treating a particular patient for a single trauma, episode, or condition or for pain associated with or related to the trauma, episode, or condition; or

(c) Prescribe an oral drug within ninety days following ophthalmic surgery unless the optometrist consults with the treating ophthalmologist. If treatment exceeding the limitation is indicated, the patient must be referred to a physician licensed under chapter 18.71 RCW.

(11) The prescription or administration of drugs as authorized in this section is specifically limited to those drugs appropriate to treatment of diseases or conditions of the human eye and the adnexa that are within the scope of practice of optometry. The prescription or administration of drugs for any other purpose is not authorized.

(12) Nothing in this chapter may be construed to authorize the use, prescription, dispensing, purchase, possession, or administration of any Schedule I or II controlled substance.

As most of you know we are limited but can and do give patients oral medications however it is determined by the state which you practice. ICO has a good link to all of the states if you want to see what your state allows.
 

samwY

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If your M5 is stock it won't be beating my WRX, or a lot of WRX/EVO/STi out there.

But thats for another thread.

It's apparent you're a ****** saying stupid stuff to try to stir up flame wars.
So I'll let you be and go on doing more productive stuff.
 

Katalio

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Well, if a stock car vs a non stock car.. then you can't really compare right? the Sti will probably go as fast if not faster than an M5 from start up.. but I doubt a WRX can.
I'm not sure about the NEW M5 tho, since it has a bigger engine and such. Not a huge fan of cars, but I do like M5! =)

Katalio
 

madin

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I still remember that episode in "Friends":

Ross: "But I am a doctor."

Rachel (sarcastically) "Sure you are."
 

soccerfan

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///M5 said:
i mean, how would you rank them? some said that optometrist are similar to chiropractors. is that fair?

Optometrists are Doctors just as Podiatrists and Dentists are Doctors. You do not have to go to medical school to be a Doctor. Optometrist can diagnose and treat eye disease in all 50 States. Oral medications are also prescribed in most states. Basically they don't do invasive surgery but handle all other eye conditions. They are however responsible to diagnose contitions that they need to refer for treatment such as Macular degeneration that may need laser treatments.
As far as "ranking" the profession, really I think it is how much self esteem each individual has for themselves. Patients who are in their care and are taken care of well hold them in high esteem.
 

I Surgeon

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Chiropracters are'nt doctors...They are Spine Doctors.........yeah yeah. And Botanists are Plant Doctors.....yeah yeah and Dentists are Tooth (or is it Teeth doctors)....so whats your point, you have'nt clarified anything. Whatever... you are classified as a non physician whatever the case by society.



futuredoctorOD said:
Optometrists aren't doctors...They are Eye
Doctors
.........I just wanted to clarify!
 

aphistis

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...and Dentists are Tooth (or is it Teeth doctors)...so whats your point, you have'nt clarified anything. Whatever... you are classified as a non physician whatever the case by society.
Actually, we specialize in the entire oral cavity & surrounding structures. Obviously we do most of our work in the mouth, but if you want to get technical, our professional sandbox is typically considered to include anything north of the clavicles. Dentistry is about far more than just the teeth.
 

albaida

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PharmDr. said:
I was not aware there was a "ranking" system in healthcare. Optometrists are doctors but not medical doctors(MD,DO). Dentists are doctors as well but in a different area of specialty. Between optometrists and chiropractors comes a blurry line in my opinion. Yes, they do earn a doctorate in their field (DC) so in sense they can be called Dr. But on the other hand, many will argue that the methods in which they go about their work are not as resembling to a MD/DO than a OD. Optometrists diagnose and treat eye diseases and visual problems and can write scripts for opthamalic soln. and in 47 states I have heard can even write for oral meds. Of course, you are only allowed to write for oral meds for the eye and related structures. Can someone verify this for me?
True, they can write oral meds for eye related problems only.
Optometrists are like "family doctors" for the eye, take care and diagnose problems with the eye and if anything wrong you treat the diseases but if things are out of hand and need surgery or other implicated and very specific procedures then they refer the patient to a SPECIALIST for the particular disease to cure it further. They go through many similiar classes as medical schools but a bit more "relaxed" not as intense. So I would say that qualifies as a doctor, Optometry Doctors, just like Doctors of Dentistry.
 

h6ppygirl

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albaida said:
True, they can write oral meds for eye related problems only.
Optometrists are like "family doctors" for the eye, take care and diagnose problems with the eye and if anything wrong you treat the diseases but if things are out of hand and need surgery or other implicated and very specific procedures then they refer the patient to a SPECIALIST for the particular disease to cure it further. They go through many similiar classes as medical schools but a bit more "relaxed" not as intense. So I would say that qualifies as a doctor, Optometry Doctors, just like Doctors of Dentistry.

Yeah, Albaida is Right. An Optometrist are Primary eye/vision care providers. Basically, we are the "Gate-Keeper" of eye/vision care. Lots of the patients, who have a eye/vision problem, do not know what is wrong with their eyes...they just know that their eyes hurt or is blurry. They should go to an optometrist first to know the seriousness of the problem, then the Optometrist will diagnoise and treat the patient or refer the patient to an Specialist such as a Retinal Ophthalmologist (if the patient needs surgery such as a Retinal detachment) or Vision Therapy Optometrist (for example, low-vision therapy.)
Now going back to the point of what Albaida said, we are the "family doctors" because we are able to diagnoise and treat patients after the DPA and TPA Acts passed more than 20 years ago (Anyways, this is getting too detailed). ALso, we are "family doctors" because patients come to us for yearly check ups and for any signs of abnormal vision/eye changes. It is important and more cost effective for the patient to go to an Optometrist first because an Optometrist would know if the problem can be easily treated such as with an oral/ eye drop medications or serious surgery.

Anyways, Well hope this clarifies things a little bit...or did i just confuse people even more. :D