optometrist to opthomologist?

[Dr.Q]

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Question.
What if someone were in optometry school but than decided they wanted to become an opthamologist-what would the procedure be? would they ahve to apply to med school and sort of start over?
Please advise.. Has anyone ever done this before?
thanks.

 

[Katalio]

You'll have to be apply for med school and start from scratch =)

 

[ppa93]

You'll have to be apply for med school and start from scratch =)

That is not necessarily true. You can apply for advanced standing in a med program at a few medical schools

 

[Katalio]

REally?!? wow, that I didn't know that... what's advance standing?

 

[brendang]

whatever... advanced-standing for what? you can't even spell ophthalmology correctly...

 

[brendang]

You'll have to be apply for med school and start from scratch =)

AND THEN get into an ophthalmology residency... not so simple my naive friend...

 

[Dr.Q]

AND THEN get into an ophthalmology residency... not so simple my naive friend...

loool..u gota admit opth...is such a long word to spell..seriosli...sheeeeeesh..

 

[mdkurt]

Question.
What if someone were in optometry school but than decided they wanted to become an opthamologist-what would the procedure be? would they ahve to apply to med school and sort of start over?
Please advise.. Has anyone ever done this before?
thanks.

You pretty much have to start over. It's a long road, but many have done it before. As far as getting into residency, being a former opto student would work in your favor.

 

[ppa93]

REally?!? wow, that I didn't know that... what's advance standing?

advanced standing means like you can start from the second year of medical school or third year. I dont think you can skip that much. so I think you can skip one year maximum. For example, instead of graduating in four years with a MD, it will take about three years for ya. I dont think u should do it because it is a waste of time, plus money
DOnt be an optometrist unless you are 100% sure.
GOOD LUCK

 

[cpw]

whatever... advanced-standing for what? you can't even spell ophthalmology correctly...

you don't have to be an arrogant a$$ about it ... you're not helping the OMD stereotype my friend.

 

[brendang]

you don't have to be an arrogant a$$ about it ... you're not helping the OMD stereotype my friend.

unlike some ophthalmology residents (or soon-to-be residents) on this forum, i feel that kissing optom a$$ will not get us anywhere as far as ensuring patient safetly with respect to surgical capacities and your apparently limitless scope of practice... in fact, letting optoms "tag along" with us in "real" ophthalmology conferences and assume "buddy-buddy" status with us was what got us in this mess to begin with... i for one, once residency starts in the near future, will be politically active in making sure the AAO and government policy hands you what you deserve...

 

[SilleAngyl]

unlike some ophthalmology residents (or soon-to-be residents) on this forum, i feel that kissing optom a$$ will not get us anywhere as far as ensuring patient safetly with respect to surgical capacities and your apparently limitless scope of practice... in fact, letting optoms "tag along" with us in "real" ophthalmology conferences and assume "buddy-buddy" status with us was what got us in this mess to begin with... i for one, once residency starts in the near future, will be politically active in making sure the AAO and government policy hands you what you deserve...

Brendang,
I am sorry to read that you have such a hostile attitude towards the optometry community. I do not believe that a friendly relationship with ophthalmology's optometry colleagues is "what got you into this mess to begin with." In fact, I think a relationship based on friendliness and mutual respect between the optometry and ophthalmology communities is imperative to a healthy and safe way for patients to receive eye care. In a way I can understand why you seem to be getting so defensive about your future career, but please know that there are many optometrists out there that are not interested in attempting to push the scope of optometry into the surgery realm. I hope that starting your residency will help you to realize that and help you to adopt a nicer view of the field of optometry.

~Sille

 

[brendang]

Brendang,
I am sorry to read that you have such a hostile attitude towards the optometry community. I do not believe that a friendly relationship with ophthalmology's optometry colleagues is "what got you into this mess to begin with." In fact, I think a relationship based on friendliness and mutual respect between the optometry and ophthalmology communities is imperative to a healthy and safe way for patients to receive eye care. In a way I can understand why you seem to be getting so defensive about your future career, but please know that there are many optometrists out there that are not interested in attempting to push the scope of optometry into the surgery realm. I hope that starting your residency will help you to realize that and help you to adopt a nicer view of the field of optometry.

~Sille

this is where you are wrong... you say that you are not interested in surgery but the fact is that your profession is pushing the boundaries into something that should never have been even a far removed consideration... trust me, if legislation ever is passed that you would give you carte blanche to do whatever you wanted, you would start referring yourself as an "Eye Surgeon" as well and would be doing nothing but the most lucrative of procedures... ophthalmologists should treat everyone in the field of optometry the same and anticipate that every single one is as full of it as the lobbyists you have attempting to buy their way into legislation...

 

[brendang]

Hey man, dont u dare insult this profession. I didnt know you will be that closed minded. Optometrists do more than what you think they do. Without optometrists, no one will be getting their glasses. There arent that many ophthamologists as you know. Optometrists are the primary care for vision. Therefore, why do u care if they can do laser surgery? why do u have a problem with that? If that legislature is passed, then it is good for our community. They can provide better health care. I dont think you should insult this profession if u arent really a doctor. you dont know how to appreciate it

So stick to making glasses!!! You're right about something...

Better health care? How many optoms have I heard about pawning off glaucoma referrals to one another until the poor patient is left blind before the "real" eye doctor got to him or her...

 

[al-majhul]

People, don't mind brendang, the child is so full of his/her/itself that it doesn't realize that this is the optometry forum to begin with, and that there is little benefit gained from insulting every active member of the forum...we should also note that brendang has characterized him/her/itself as the "retina geek"

A geek is defined by dictionary.com as the following...

1. a. A person regarded as foolish, inept, or clumsy.
1. b. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.

2. A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.

Now, though it seems brendang fits every description of these definitions, in the assumed case of definition #2, perhaps the adjective "retina" implies he/she/it bites the EYES out of the heads of live chickens. In which case, I motion we ignore any further comments made by the aforementioned circus freak on this forum as there is no benefit in responding. (sorry cpw, I had to make the motion to help keep this forum contained).

 

[brendang]

People, don't mind brendang, the child is so full of his/her/itself that it doesn't realize that this is the optometry forum to begin with, and that there is little benefit gained from insulting every active member of the forum...we should also note that brendang has characterized him/her/itself as the "retina geek"

A geek is defined by dictionary.com as the following...

1. a. A person regarded as foolish, inept, or clumsy.
1. b. A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.

2. A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.

Now, though it seems brendang fits every description of these definitions, in the assumed case of definition #2, perhaps the adjective "retina" implies he/she/it bites the EYES out of the heads of live chickens. In which case, I motion we ignore any further comments made by the aforementioned circus freak on this forum as there is no benefit in responding. (sorry cpw, I had to make the motion to help keep this forum contained).

profound and thought provoking...

 

[ppa93]

profound and thought provoking...

Well, you know what? you are very pathetic. You went to a medical school in Caribean because u didnt get accepted by any US med school or Canadian med school. How pathetic is that? dont you ever insult optometrists until you can go to med school in USA.

 

[brendang]

Well, you know what? you are very pathetic. You went to a medical school in Caribean because u didnt get accepted by any US med school or Canadian med school. How pathetic is that? dont you ever insult optometrists until you can go to med school in USA.

who needs to get into med school in the US when you can get into an ophtho residency via a caribbean med school... pathetic is having an occupation with no real defined boundaries... "well, i'm not quite an optician (i'm better than that), but i'm not an eye surgeon either..." the only thing i see as pathetic is what optometrists do day-to-day... obviously filling refraction prescriptions isn't doin' it for ya... if you weren't so insecure about your station in life, you'd stick to doing your job...

 

[ppa93]

who needs to get into med school in the US when you can get into an ophtho residency via a caribbean med school... pathetic is having an occupation with no real defined boundaries... "well, i'm not quite an optician (i'm better than that), but i'm not an eye surgeon either..." the only thing i see as pathetic is what optometrists do day-to-day... obviously filling refraction prescriptions isn't doin' it for ya... if you weren't so insecure about your station in life, you'd stick to doing your job...

Who said that we dont have any real defined boundaries? we arent opticians okay? We are neither surgeon or optician. Nevermind. Why would I waste my time fighting with you who is pathetic
You have no general knowledge
good luck with your life
God bless you

 

[jav316]

all i have to say is that it is very disturbing to imagine a person with your attitude and immaturity is studying to be a physician. i sincerely hope you grow up before you begin practicing.

who needs to get into med school in the US when you can get into an ophtho residency via a caribbean med school... pathetic is having an occupation with no real defined boundaries... "well, i'm not quite an optician (i'm better than that), but i'm not an eye surgeon either..." the only thing i see as pathetic is what optometrists do day-to-day... obviously filling refraction prescriptions isn't doin' it for ya... if you weren't so insecure about your station in life, you'd stick to doing your job...

 

[brendang]

all i have to say is that it is very disturbing to imagine a person with your attitude and immaturity is studying to be a physician. i sincerely hope you grow up before you begin practicing.

well then you're in for a real surprise... talk to some more ophthalmologists in the US/Canada... perhaps all the sugar-coated reservations that your colleagues tell you we ophthalmologists (or residents) maintain is just that... i do not know of one MD who supports your manifest destiny... coming from a family of ophthalmologists who are heavily involved in a university setting, this, my friend, is not strictly my sentiment alone... fortunately, i don't see how defending my (future) patient's care and safety from penultimate practitioners is immature... the burden of responsibility in destroying your potential surgical capacities lies in all aspects of ophthalmology... residents and medical students are now more heavily involved in fighting this cause in the name of patient safety and you will be hearing immature attitudes such as mine for a long time to come...

 

[ppa93]

well then you're in for a real surprise... talk to some more opthalmologists in the US/Canada... perhaps all the sugar-coated reservations that your colleagues tell you we ophthalmologists (or residents) maintain is just that... i do not know of one MD who supports your manifest destiny... coming from a family of ophthalmologists who are heavily involved in a university setting, this, my friend, is not strictly my sentiments alone... fortunately, i don't see how defending my (future) patient's care and safety from penultimate practitioners is either immature...

you sound like you think Optometrists didnt learn to take care of patients? Why would we go to school for four years after the undergrad degree? of couse, we know what we are doing. you are defending your patient's care? I hope you should know that if they all go to Ophthamologists for vision, a lot of people will die waiting for you. you arent defending your patients. you are just insulting other professions. just grow up

 

[brendang]

you sound like you think Optometrists didnt learn to take care of patients? Why would we go to school for four years after the undergrad degree? of couse, we know what we are doing. you are defending your patient's care? I hope you should know that if they all go to Ophthamologists for vision, a lot of people will die waiting for you. you arent defending your patients. you are just insulting other professions. just grow up

it is unfortunate that there is a shortage of ophthalmologists but why should that mean that they should see someone who is neither trained or even qualified to perform surgery and proper medical care... the legislation of optometrists here in canada is strict... optoms are allowed to do much much less that what you can do in the US and yet there is a far greater shortage of ophthalmologists here than down south... the reason for this is that patients value their selfworth and health and would not go see someone "else" because they had to wait too long... i'd much rather see an increase in the number of ophthalmology residency spots than have optoms even lay a finger on my mother, grandmother or even myself...

 

[ppa93]

it is unfortunate that there is a shortage of ophthalmologists but why should that mean that they should see someone who is neither trained or even qualified to perform surgery and proper medical care... the legislation of optometrists here in canada is strict... optoms are allowed to do much much less that what you can do in the US and yet there is a far greater shortage of opthalmologists here than down south... the reason for this is that patients value their selfworth and health and would not go see someone "else" because they had to wait too long... i'd much rather see an increase in the number of ophthalmology residency spots than have optoms even lay a finger on my mother, grandmother or even myself...

Who said we can do surgery? only Okalohoma state allows it. go do some research and be mature

 

[al-majhul]

why do you not heed my words of wisdom?

(words of wisdom coming up) -> :: ignore brendang ::

his/her/its only purpose on this board is to incite anger in those of us who love the profession we have chosen, in order to satisfy his/her/its own ego. you would all do well for this board (and for your blood pressures) to imagine that his/her/its comments are not even on the screen.

...or perhaps cpw can somehow get brendang's membership limited to the allopathy forum for the sake of the greater good? brendang's presence here is of absolutely no benefit. just a thought.

 

[meb302]

why do you not heed my words of wisdom?

(words of wisdom coming up) -> :: ignore brendang ::

his/her/its only purpose on this board is to incite anger in those of us who love the profession we have chosen, in order to satisfy his/her/its own ego. you would all do well for this board (and for your blood pressures) to imagine that his/her/its comments are not even on the screen.

...or perhaps cpw can somehow get brendang's membership limited to the allopathy forum for the sake of the greater good? brendang's presence here is of absolutely no benefit. just a thought.

al-majhul,

You are awesome! I second the motion to ignore ignorant fools like brenda whatever its name is.... Where are you going to school al-majhul? If you are considering OSU, I'll be there in the fall!

 

[al-majhul]

al-majhul,

You are awesome! I second the motion to ignore ignorant fools like brenda whatever its name is.... Where are you going to school al-majhul? If you are considering OSU, I'll be there in the fall!

meb302,

Thanks for your support 😀 Anywho, I graduated last fall from UCLA for undergrad, and I'll be at UCBSO in the Fall. Good luck at OSU! 🙂 Take care.

 

[JennyW]

this is where you are wrong... you say that you are not interested in surgery but the fact is that your profession is pushing the boundaries into something that should never have been even a far removed consideration... trust me, if legislation ever is passed that you would give you carte blanche to do whatever you wanted, you would start referring yourself as an "Eye Surgeon" as well and would be doing nothing but the most lucrative of procedures... ophthalmologists should treat everyone in the field of optometry the same and anticipate that every single one is as full of it as the lobbyists you have attempting to buy their way into legislation...

Riiiiggghhhttt.... and ophthalmologists only act in the most ethical and upstanding fashion, without regard for financial gain. Perhaps that's why there are so many glaucoma surgeons who suddenly became "pioneering LASIK surgeons" or why when I practiced in Florida that just about half the patients that I saw over the age of 65 had bilateral PIs.

 

[stevec]

My dad, an optometrist, was told by a local opthamologist that laser eye surgery nowadays is easy, and any optometrist can do it. True story.

 

[mdkurt]

well then you're in for a real surprise... talk to some more ophthalmologists in the US/Canada... perhaps all the sugar-coated reservations that your colleagues tell you we ophthalmologists (or residents) maintain is just that... i do not know of one MD who supports your manifest destiny... coming from a family of ophthalmologists who are heavily involved in a university setting, this, my friend, is not strictly my sentiment alone... fortunately, i don't see how defending my (future) patient's care and safety from penultimate practitioners is immature... the burden of responsibility in destroying your potential surgical capacities lies in all aspects of ophthalmology... residents and medical students are now more heavily involved in fighting this cause in the name of patient safety and you will be hearing immature attitudes such as mine for a long time to come...

I think Brendang has a point here...most ophtho grads stop shooting flames out of their ears and foaming at the mouth once they get a little perspective in practice, but the fact remains that ophtho/optom relations have sustained pretty heavy damage from all this surgical lobbying. Even though professional relations between optoms and ophthos in private practice are still collegial, there are some subtle but important changes happening. For example, I have stopped doing quick "curbside" consults over the telephone for my optometric colleagues who have questions. I'm still nice, but now I suggest that I might be able to more accurately treat the patient if they send him/her over for me to formally consult. The optometrist still gets what they need (my medical opinion), but the patient understands that there has been a clear transfer of care for an issue that their optometrist couldn't handle.

As an aside, the New Mexico bill was defeated yesterday. Untold gobs of money were spent by both sides to accomplish nothing. Do we really need this?

 

[jjmcentee@hotma]

Good question. Being an optician for the past 18 years, I have worked with both MD's and OD's and it seems reasonable to allow someone who has just studied eyes for four years (more than an MD) to somehow fastrac to an Ophthalmologist status in some capacity.

but

you can't.

You have to start over in medical school, you can fastrac in med school by skipping some of your clerkships or condensing them into the summers. I knew one chap who did just that. OD school, practiced for about 9 years, then went to UB and they allowed him to finish in 3 then start his residencies.

But, question yourself, why do you want to be an MD? if you practice Optometry in an MD practice, you get to see alot of the clinical stuff and you get paid pretty well, you just can't do surgery. Optometry is really a strong field.

jim

 

[jjmcentee@hotma]

for my fellow MD posts.

before we attack Optometry, should Ophthamology be selling contacts and eyeglasses?

hasn't this traditionally been an OD area?

 

[Katalio]

for my fellow MD posts.

before we attack Optometry, should Ophthamology be selling contacts and eyeglasses?

hasn't this traditionally been an OD area?

But then if OD are selling contacts and eyeglasses, what do opticians do?

 

[kaostonite]

who needs to get into med school in the US when you can get into an ophtho residency via a caribbean med school... pathetic is having an occupation with no real defined boundaries... "well, i'm not quite an optician (i'm better than that), but i'm not an eye surgeon either..." the only thing i see as pathetic is what optometrists do day-to-day... obviously filling refraction prescriptions isn't doin' it for ya... if you weren't so insecure about your station in life, you'd stick to doing your job...

"I’m the most from the coast of the east, then flee
Droppin more knowledge than litter, on the new york peeve
It’s me, wonder why, in the place to be
Certified, as superior, mc..." - Brendang's signature

You know what I see as pathetic man - your rhyming skills in your signature. my 5 yr old coz could drop a flow better than that. It doesn't even rhyme ?? And if it's a bitten rhyme as I suspect it is -then your musical taste is almost as bad as your outlook on health-care.

THOSE WHO DEFEND THEMSELVES AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY ARE THE MOST INSECURE

I feel sorry for your patients already !! 🙁

PATHETIC 👎

 

[brendang]

"I’m the most from the coast of the east, then flee
Droppin more knowledge than litter, on the new york peeve
It’s me, wonder why, in the place to be
Certified, as superior, mc..." - Brendang's signature

You know what I see as pathetic man - your rhyming skills in your signature. my 5 yr old coz could drop a flow better than that. It doesn't even rhyme ?? And if it's a bitten rhyme as I suspect it is -then your musical taste is almost as bad as your outlook on health-care.

THOSE WHO DEFEND THEMSELVES AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY ARE THE MOST INSECURE

I feel sorry for your patients already !! 🙁

PATHETIC 👎

Free beer to the first person who tells me where the rhymes are from!!!

 

[wtwei02]

If my memory of early 90's rap serves me correct, that is De La Soul's the Bizness ??

 

[brendang]

If my memory of early 90's rap serves me correct, that is De La Soul's the Bizness ??

well done my friend... well done. next time you're in new orleans, let me know and i'll deliver the beer as promised.

 

[albaida]

well then you're in for a real surprise... talk to some more ophthalmologists in the US/Canada... perhaps all the sugar-coated reservations that your colleagues tell you we ophthalmologists (or residents) maintain is just that... i do not know of one MD who supports your manifest destiny... coming from a family of ophthalmologists who are heavily involved in a university setting, this, my friend, is not strictly my sentiment alone... fortunately, i don't see how defending my (future) patient's care and safety from penultimate practitioners is immature... the burden of responsibility in destroying your potential surgical capacities lies in all aspects of ophthalmology... residents and medical students are now more heavily involved in fighting this cause in the name of patient safety and you will be hearing immature attitudes such as mine for a long time to come...

My "intelligent" soon to be opthalmologist, I truly hope you are only 19, then... maybe then I can see the slightest, faintest hope that you are EVER going to grow up and take care of your future patients the way that they deserve to be taken care of. What does your hatred of Optometry have to do with your patients??? A lot.... people who feel animosity toward anything like you do towards optometry will never be good (at heart), a doctor is NOTHING without goodness at heart, therefore you will never be a doctor, not a true one. 1 billion years of school will never make YOUR type (including your family) a doctor. It is attitudes like yours that soon to be optometrists like me will fight with every single last drop of power to SAVE patients from monsters like YOU, and IF everyone in your profession feels like you, Optometrists should begin to celebrate the begining of YOUR profession's end, we would be getting rid of a bad seed. BUT... I know for a fact that there are many wonderful opthalmologists who are nothing like you, and that is fortunate.
Many bad things have started with your attitude; read and learn some history my GEEK "friend," the world is bigger than an eye ball, and because of people like you (and your family of opthalmologists) many bad things will happen to humanity. It's unfortunate you will someday carry the title opthalmologist and STAIN its reputation.

Proud optometrist who will someday kick your a$$
Aida

 

[rpames]

Can I Hear An Amen!

 

[Tasteestuff]

coming from a family of ophthalmologists who are heavily involved in a university setting, this, my friend, is not strictly my sentiment alone...

I do not like insulting anyone but... Wow.. Your parents must be very proud of you.. Caribbean med. school.. Have u considered the fact that perhaps 99.99% of people here in this thread (optometrist) can get into the your SO called Med. school ??? Isn't their acceptance rate somewhere around 30% for caribbeans and 100% for americans and canadians?

i'd much rather see an increase in the number of ophthalmology residency spots than have optoms even lay a finger on my mother, grandmother or even myself...

Personally, I'd much rather go to any ODs or any other health care providers before I, my family or anyone remotely connected to me, go to a caribbean med. graduate. 🙂 IMHO.. I wouldn't want them touching me with 10ft pole

 

[cpw]

okay guys... time to stop drinking the haterade....

stop playing with the troll. 😉

 

[Kristene9]

who needs to get into med school in the US when you can get into an ophtho residency via a caribbean med school... pathetic is having an occupation with no real defined boundaries... "well, i'm not quite an optician (i'm better than that), but i'm not an eye surgeon either..." the only thing i see as pathetic is what optometrists do day-to-day... obviously filling refraction prescriptions isn't doin' it for ya... if you weren't so insecure about your station in life, you'd stick to doing your job...

sooo... just for grins, what kind of GPA and MCAT score does it take to go to a Caribbean med school?? Where are you getting this residency?

 

[futuredoctorOD]

this is where you are wrong... you say that you are not interested in surgery but the fact is that your profession is pushing the boundaries into something that should never have been even a far removed consideration... trust me, if legislation ever is passed that you would give you carte blanche to do whatever you wanted, you would start referring yourself as an "Eye Surgeon" as well and would be doing nothing but the most lucrative of procedures... ophthalmologists should treat everyone in the field of optometry the same and anticipate that every single one is as full of it as the lobbyists you have attempting to buy their way into legislation...

I wake up at 430 am every morning during the weekdays to get to the school by 500 am to study my books for 4 hours until I have Graduate level Molecular Genetics, Proteomics, Immune Defense and Disease, and Biochemistry classes during my day. Then at 500 pm I go to the gym and hit the free-weights (bench pressed 330 lbs the other day---I weigh 155lb--not bad). Following this I work for 4 hours until 9 pm to be able to support my little "dump" that I live in only to study for a couple hours before I go to bed and do it again the next day. I am working hard to get accepted to a Doctor of Optometry Program somewhere---my brother is IN a DO program and we have the same GPA and similar academic aptitude. You are disrespectful and have no clue just how hard I have to work along with others on this optometric site to get into an Optometry program. You disgust me......You are training to be a "BACK DOOR DOCTOR"----couldn't get into a DO program?
My little brother got accepted to 3 carribean schools initially and was very depressed because of potentially having the "label" of being an inferior grade medical student graduate. Then a gift from the medical gods-----two acceptance letters from US Osteopathic Medical schools. I consider my brother superior to you in every way because he stuck it out and go into what he wanted. I hate to tell you this but it is EASIER to get into a Carribean Medical school then Optometry, Dentistry, or Podiatry in the US! My best friend who got expelled from a PA program for poor academic performance (although he had horrible circumstances) got accepted to 2 carribean schools-one that didnt even require an MCAT and the other accepted his 22 composite MCAT score (7 on Biological Sciences!) If there where NCAA like divisions in medical schools----you are in NAIA Division III ---if you don't know the divisions are from biggest and best to smallest (NCAA Division I, II, III, NAIA I, II, III)--so you can understand my analogy. The education you had is inferior to what is offered in the US ---DO or MD and is easier to get accepted than a US optometry school---this is not the case in the US where Medical schools are somewhat harder to get into (but Optometry is still challenging to get a seat.) Now even if your USMLE scores are reasonably good---I would never let you touch a friend or family member of mine because I don't trust your education unless you are very EXCEPTIONAL in your residency--because your education is INFERIOR. US medical schools are on a different level and you did not have what it takes to get into one so please "close your pie hole"----stop infecting this optometry forum with your insecure ranting 👎 I have to go and finish studying for Immunology so in 4 years when I become an Optometric Physician--an Eye Doctor, and write prescriptions from anything from Acyclovir to a corticosteroid, I will laugh when I remember how much of a ***** you are.



PS: CPW---I am sorry but I had to put my foot in this guy's &!!$%$%!